Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Gothic Chronicles Of Myrtana: Archolos mod for Gothic 2

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,762
Formal skills, hah. Please, get in line to take out $100k USD in student debt to get a bachelors of art in “game design” or “game writing” from a for-profit liberal arts school in the US.

Those people are just churning out games of comparable quality to Archolos - right?!
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,052
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Finishing a mod with fully featured new landmass, new art assets, new quests, a complete story that makes sense, with good writing, professionally quality (!) Polish voice acting, a solid English translation of the texts, and fixes to several gameplay issues of the original game (like how they made perma-bonuses to stats independent from the learned stat) is way better proof of "formal skills" than any degree.

In fact, it's not just "formal skills" they have, but practical ones.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
In fact, it's not just "formal skills" they have, but practical ones.

This. There is a reason why game studios are quite happy to hire modders who often lack the formal qualifications.

They actually get someone who can do things rather than some brainwashed retard who spent three years at college/university writing papers on diversity in gaming.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,762
That poster’s comment on formal skills reflects a broader societal trend to value - and at this point over value - credentials. Credentials have become a heuristic for ability, whereas it used to be your experience (ie accomplishments, work product) was the banner by which you demonstrated your worth.

To look into someone’s experience and think critically about about a pool of work is harder than examining a piece of paper.

Oh no, I wrote another cultural rot post!
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
That poster’s comment on formal skills reflects a broader societal trend to value - and at this point over value - credentials. Credentials have become a heuristic for ability, whereas it used to be your experience (ie accomplishments, work product) was the banner by which you demonstrated your worth.

To look into someone’s experience and think critically about about a pool of work is harder than examining a piece of paper.

Oh no, I wrote another cultural rot post!

In my experience of the corporate software field, it's always been easier to survive without academic qualifications compared to a lot of other fields.

I personally went through the three years of useless shit route to get a degree, but I've known plenty of people that have risen far in the field without any of the formal academic stuff.

I've generally heard that games development is similar in that you can often be hired on experience/portfolio alone.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,762
That poster’s comment on formal skills reflects a broader societal trend to value - and at this point over value - credentials. Credentials have become a heuristic for ability, whereas it used to be your experience (ie accomplishments, work product) was the banner by which you demonstrated your worth.

In my experience of the corporate software field, it's always been easier to survive without academic qualifications compared to a lot of other fields.

That's not surprising, but I think the broader trend of credentials for "game developers" being a requirement is reflected in the amount of degree-granting programs now offered in the US, compared to 15 years ago. I also expect that your experience is highly specific to the type of positions and companies that you are interacting with. I imagine larger legacy developers such as Oracle, Microsoft, Apple and even Amazon have pretty strict formal requirements for getting a resume screened. Now, if you know someone who can influence that process and can demonstrate your worth, I'm sure you can get past the credentials hurdle and have a hiring manager at least look at your resume.

Smaller companies are scrappier and I expect they do more ad-hoc hiring. I also expect certain software fields, such as web dev and digital media (which is stretch to classify as software, i know), rely less on formal credentials.

I'm on the other end of the spectrum - i'm balls deep in science and engineering in the corporate space. We're looking at degrees, publications and a person's entire paper trail to decide who warrants a call back or not.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,762
Making video games was historically never easier, in every sense, then today. Only reason why we don't see dozens of studios who make games like Archolos is: small balls. Too many weak sperms who rely on publisher for funding, Discord and Steam forums for game design and Unity for programming. Where are crazy, passionate, 20somethin kiddos, those Avellone, Sawyer, Tim Cain and others were in 90s?
I think it's different, I think the backgrounds and thus the motivators of people who made games in the 80s, 90s and even early 2000s is different than those who want to make games in the 2020s.

If you think of an arbitrary break point in time, call it 2002, and go further and further back in time; the people who were making games were steeped in interest, and maybe even had knowledge of: science, engineering, math, history. They probably also were somewhat counter-cultural, enjoyed pulp fiction, and if they made RPGs then they probably played some table top gaming. Some were artsy types, into the theatre and painting. Others were techies, like Cain and his dropped PhD.

Now, go forward in time from that break point. The people who are making video games are interested in... video games! Zelda, anime, cartoons, pokemon, "Bioware story telling", "cinematic experiences". Capeshit. It's the story of the decline and fall of Bioware through cultural rot, writ large on the game-making industry. Fast forward closer to today, and you have people who are making games with explicit political activism in mind.

I expect that some form of political or social activism driving aspects of game development existed as far back as the PLATO days, only the flavor of that activism is going to look nothing like it does today. In the 70s, 80s and even 90s - being counter-cultural often meant you were ostracized for your beliefs. You had probably been in a street fight, knew what it was like to get your ass kicked (and maybe kick one, too). People could sneer at you from the well-respected reaches of society. Media was hegemonic, and it wasn't cheering for you. You had to be skeptical of official narratives, because you know from experience that officials lied (no matter if a big D or R was next to someone's name), and in general you may have not been well-accepted in society.

Today we have the pathologizing of victimhood, soft people with soft problems. The activists today sit in a chair and furiously slam out tweets from their $800 USD phones.


edit: cleaned it up a bit. i'm really channeling some The Wall energy here, eh?
 
Last edited:

Cunt Dickula!?

Guest
If it's that easy why doesn't the Archolos Team just make their own Pseudo-Gothic and live from their indie studio?
Modding and game dev are two different things.
Difference between having a hobby and living from it.

Tbh i never heard of a modding team going indie and it being a success.
The real success stories with modding was multiplayer stuff like Counter Strike or Dota.
And in both cases Valve probably just hired one guy from the team and let the rest of the team rot.
 

Tacgnol

Shitlord
Patron
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
1,871,734
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
This game is chock full of leftist dogwhistles and reddit memes, was an absolute letdown for me

Despite the developer's claims to have done "thousands of hours of research" it was full of inaccuracies, like le reddit views on Roman sexuality (very complex subject, definitely not as simple as "We respect all regardless of race or sexual preference" as the magistrate guy tells you at the start).

Feels like they just asked some questions on reddit's history sub and took the first highly rated response as gospel.

Wokeness aside, I think it was a commercial success.
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,376
real programming.

Like coding your own engine real? Because most devs nowadays just mod and assetswap base Unity or UE
Maybe smaller indie studios.
But for example Piranha Bytes or Spiders still have their own engines.

These guys are better Piranha Bytes then modern Piranha Bytes. If I was publisher at THQ Nordic, I'd give them contract tomorrow to make Gothic 3
Apples and Pears. Sure the Archolos team can create an amazing mod for a game from 2002.
But why do you think that they could create a commercially sucessful game?
They have infinite time for modding.
They don't have to live from it.
They don't have to do all the messy stuff Piranha Bytes does. (developing an engine, assets, animations)
Why would THQ Nordic even hire people with no formal skills in game dev? (No programming skills, art design skills, etc.)
Piranha bytes lives off of EU welfare, they don't have to do any of that shit either.
 

Arrowgrab

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Messages
603
I have a question about a side quest: Gumbert, the cook at Valerio's vineyard, wants to develop a new brand of wine. I brought him a bunch of grapes, than a bunch of apples. Then he goes down to the storage room and starts making the must. The quest description at this point says I should "help him make the must".

How do I do that? What exactly am I supposed to do? Talking to him doesn't give me any relevant conversation options, and the vat next to him is unusable by the player. Or should I just wait a day and come back for the finished product?
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,762
I have a question about a side quest: Gumbert, the cook at Valerio's vineyard, wants to develop a new brand of wine. I brought him a bunch of grapes, than a bunch of apples. Then he goes down to the storage room and starts making the must. The quest description at this point says I should "help him make the must".

How do I do that? What exactly am I supposed to do? Talking to him doesn't give me any relevant conversation options, and the vat next to him is unusable by the player. Or should I just wait a day and come back for the finished product?
There should be a "masher" next to the vat, pick it up and then interact with the vat. Maybe it isn't the vat, but there is a big environmental object near him you need to interact with.
 

Mauman

Learned
Joined
Jun 30, 2021
Messages
906
So....I'm just now in chapter 2 and I've been using the free hunter armor from the north forest.

My question is should I buy the chainmail from Petra for 500gp? I could have sworn I read somewhere that there's a cheaper source coming up but for the life of me I can't find it.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom