Civilization VII - coming February 11th

[IHaveHugeNick]

I hope the cut the fat and trim down 7 to a 5.5

Of course they will cut the fat.

Then release it back as a DLC, as per usual

 

[PapaPetro]

You end up with an AI that needs to cheat to present any kind of challenge.

Here's to hoping they actually incorporate new actual AI ChatGPT stuff. I'd like to see the computer play actually human-like at various simulated degrees rather than just use heuristics and cheat.
I think it's possible today with a few tweaks of the transformer AI model to regressively select for best next move (of varying skill) rather than best next word to complete the sentence.
Hopefully Faraxis held onto the multiplayer cloud data sets.

It could also just self-train. I think AlphaGo did that a lot. Isn't Deep Reinforcement learning through self training more applicable than whatever chatGPT has been using?

Different scope. Something like Chess or Go have like 10^40 possible moves, while a lot, is nothing compared to the greater orders of magnitudes of possible moves / board states found on a complex game like Civ 6. So you're gonna need a faster methodology that can get you reasonable results in a real time game.
This Transformer model is good for these complex systems like linguistics and simulations as it doesn't have to "master" the game, it just has to make good moves consecutively and timely in a overwhelmingly complex (and perhaps fluid) situations.
It's not a huge leap to API the act of describing a board state (resources, map visibility, unit positions, etc.) and then asking what is the next series of moves to take this turn.

 

[TheSoul]

There's going to be rainbow pride as a social policy. It's so fucking stupid that I'm fully expecting them to brag about the inclusion before release.

 

[Delterius]

Brace for it, I've got some inside scoop on the new art direction.

Otto Von Bismarck: I cannot wait until ye grow even mightier. Therefore, prepare for war! (Declaration of War)

 

[kris]

View attachment 33680

This will be my only comment.

Of course the best leader.

 

[Zibniyat]

Alright, how will they fudge it up this time? Lucky number 7?

Lead designer is Heather Hazen,

What do you think? Lead designer is a woman.

But then again I haven't cared about Civilisation games for a decade now, the last one I played was Civilisation IV. And even back then the game was stale and sterile.​

 

[flyingjohn]

Actually, that is a good point, and an issue that plagues most of the SP focused 4X: making complicated systems the AI cannot use is pointless. You end up with an AI that needs to cheat to present any kind of challenge. It is ok in an asymetric games (Warlock 2, Spellforce: Conquest of Eo, Sorcerer King), but obnoxious in a symetric one.

If you want to see a extreme case of this play sword of the stars 2. Devs spent a year just trying to make the ai not go bankrupt.
And modders barely made the AI have some money to actually maintain a fleet before giving up and giving it bonusses.

i'm going to kick your nuts for free. is it the best entertainment you've ever had considering the price tag?

Man actually plays civ 6, i think he is machoistic enough to considerer being kicked in the balls as valid entertainment.

What a beautiful career in shovelware garbage: https://www.mobygames.com/developer/heather-hazen/credits/developerId,237723/

They had no choice. Jake left, the previous guy handling nu civ left as well, everybody else involved with civ abandoned the franchise. They just nabbed anybody who they could find.
Edit: Actually she is not involved with any design stuff, she is the head of firaxis now. Which is also not a good thing

 

[Gaznak]

But then again I haven't cared about Civilisation games for a decade now, the last one I played was Civilisation IV. And even back then the game was stale and sterile.

Exactly. CivIII is the last good Civ, and the second best (Civ2 ToT is the king). CivIV started the years of decay and decline.

 

[Gaznak]

sword of the stars 2

God, how I wished this game to succeed. The first SotS had quite an impact on my mental health. Simplistic but so cool and mind-wrenching by its three-dimensional map, race-unique propulsion methods, elaborate setting and so on.

 

[Duraframe300]

Actually, that is a good point, and an issue that plagues most of the SP focused 4X: making complicated systems the AI cannot use is pointless. You end up with an AI that needs to cheat to present any kind of challenge. It is ok in an asymetric games (Warlock 2, Spellforce: Conquest of Eo, Sorcerer King), but obnoxious in a symetric one.

If you want to see a extreme case of this play sword of the stars 2. Devs spent a year just trying to make the ai not go bankrupt.
And modders barely made the AI have some money to actually maintain a fleet before giving up and giving it bonusses.

i'm going to kick your nuts for free. is it the best entertainment you've ever had considering the price tag?

Man actually plays civ 6, i think he is machoistic enough to considerer being kicked in the balls as valid entertainment.

What a beautiful career in shovelware garbage: https://www.mobygames.com/developer/heather-hazen/credits/developerId,237723/

They had no choice. Jake left, the previous guy handling nu civ left as well, everybody else involved with civ abandoned the franchise. They just nabbed anybody who they could find.
Edit: Actually she is not involved with any design stuff, she is the head of firaxis now. Which is also not a good thing

Considering Marvel: Midnight Suns expect Firaxis to go full shovelware company.

 

[Axioms]

But then again I haven't cared about Civilisation games for a decade now, the last one I played was Civilisation IV. And even back then the game was stale and sterile.

Exactly. CivIII is the last good Civ, and the second best (Civ2 ToT is the king). CivIV started the years of decay and decline.

So Civ4 is widely considered the best of all the Civs by people who played a Civ before CiV released. Now I prefer 3 because the graphics for 4 just put me off and I originally started with an illegal burned copy of 3 although I later bought and enjoyed Civ3 Complete. I'm just curious what stuff was added to 4 that made it bad in your opinion? Civics? Fancy religion stuff?

 

[whydoibother]

So Civ4 is widely considered the best of all the Civs by people who played a Civ before CiV released.

Fake news. I played Civ3 on release, and every Civilization game (including FreeCiv) before Civilization V.
I still think that Civilization V is the best one, despite no mods in multiplayer, despite desyncs, despite the horrid state it was in on release day.
Moving large armies on 1UPT is annoying, but its more fun than stacks overall. More rewarding to work with the terrain, more tactical when you have range, blockers, flanks. The Panzer Commander system is great for this type of game.

And anyone declares Civ3 to be their favorite in the series, I immediately think of them as a hipster poser who pretends to like whatever makes him look most hardcore to other casuals. Its almost objectively not the best.

****************
As for the Civ7 announcement, its strange to see everyone automatically assume it will be unredeemable shit. I guess more contrarian hipsterism. I hope its good, and even though Civ6 was overall a downgrade, it wasn't a strang line down. Multiplayer mods were better, the layer system for military/religious/civilian, etc units is better, the wonders being on the map is better, the city states and diplomacy are better, leader and civilization being separated, and there being more unique abilities is better, the double research tree for culture and science is better, unlocking most civ unique units with culture rather than science is cooler, you are yet again rewarded for going wider (or rather less penalized), the user interface is more usable (if uglier), and even basic things like being able to put tacks to plan things out is in practical terms a big improvement during play.
I hope they again integrate the good of the old game into the base new game, and expand on it. And I hope Civ6 bombed on mobile devices, so Civ7 is less geared towards them.

Certainly I am more optimistic about the new Civilization, than about the new Diablo, for example.

 

[Fedora Master]

still think that Civilization V is the best one

Yes but it's you.

 

[whydoibother]

still think that Civilization V is the best one

Yes but it's you.

If you've played Civilization IV or V, its not unlikely that you've used my guides and downloaded my mods. Lets leave it at that, because I hate to appeal to authority, but I am not just some guy with 20 hours in the game.

 

[Fedora Master]

still think that Civilization V is the best one

Yes but it's you.

If you've played Civilization IV or V, its not unlikely that you've used my guides and downloaded my mods. Lets leave it at that, because I hate to appeal to authority, but I am not just some guy with 20 hours in the game.

No, you clearly like digging holes for yourself.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

re: the new head at firaxis, I don't know, these kind of positions are largely just managerial these days, and if you got that high I don't think you're doing the grunt work when it comes to programming or designing. Bad leadership can hurt projects but I don't think good leadership exists anymore.
Civ 6 was enjoyable for me but I'm expecting them to change a lot of things when it comes to gameplay. This being Civ I think they'll do that, but I'm worried they'll replace stuff with even worse stuff. I have a hunch they'll double down on the board game simulator thing, though, and I can't blame them. While a lot of people still played Civ5 during Civ 6's lifespan, I think they did it because for a lot of them Civ 5 was their first Civ game and they expected 6 to be Civ 5 II.
Sadly I expect the leader screens and graphics to be worse than before.

 

[Gaznak]

I'm just curious what stuff was added to 4 that made it bad in your opinion? Civics? Fancy religion stuff?

I didn't say CivIV is bad. I said it started the decline of the series.

3D graphics is not needed in TBS games. Just compare the neat Civ3 visuals and goofy CivIV models. 'Talking heads' look even more stupid than they were in CivIII.

Religion mechanics, civics and some other new stuff seem to have been intended to give more variacy of tactics and strategies to the game but for me they just made it overburdened and superfluous.

There are also some minor drawbacks, mostly subjective, like annoying sounds and music. I don't remember for sure how CivIV AI is faring but I doubt it does remarkably well, whereas CivIII AI seems to be right at home in its game.

CivIII in my sincerest opinion stopped exactly where it should. CivIV passed its station.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

4 was made in Gamebryo so it should be easy to mod. Easier than 3 at any rate. I went back to 3 recently and you can certainly feel how you're expected to rush and expand, granted, it's one of the Xs in 4x, but I had to get used to such speed again.

 

[JarlFrank]

Civ4 is the best Civ because mods.

That's all.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

mods aside, i still prefer 3 over 4.

 

[Victor1234]

If you like streamlined, lean design, you'll like Civ II-III better.

If you like more mechanics and depth, you'll like Civ IV better.

If you like watching slightly interactive cartoons played out on a map, you'll like Civ V-VI better (note: Yes, jeans really have become a resource in Civ 6....)

 

[Luzur]

Civ2 rules

/thread

 

[Zeriel]

Every Civ game gets worse, so this will be even worse than 6. Imagine that! Just try to imagine a game worse than 6.

 

[Modron]

No doubt that 7 will be exponentially worse than 6 the inmates are running the asylum over at Firaxis. I personally can't wait until they reveal the creaturas that will be the leaders in seven.

 

[spectre]

When they announced CiV I thought - wonder what new shit will they come up with this time round.
When they announced CiVI I thought - wonder what they'll fuck up this time.
Now they announced CiVII and I'm wondering if I still have any fucks left to give.