CKII is released.

[Sranchammer]

The Prince and the Thane has quickly become my favorite mod

 

[20 Eyes]

I lasted 20ish years in my last game as the count of Capua (I did manage to take Naples) before the muslim doomstack of 16,000 slaughtered my meager forces and took all my stuff. I'm tempted to keep playing that game through a different character to see how far north they come, and how fast.

 

[IDtenT]

I lasted 20ish years in my last game as the count of Capua (I did manage to take Naples) before the muslim doomstack of 16,000 slaughtered my meager forces and took all my stuff. I'm tempted to keep playing that game through a different character to see how far north they come, and how fast.

Every time I try Capua, Genoa or the Muslims utterly rape me.

 

[oscar]

So what's the definitive mod(s) right now? I had quite a bit of fun with Lux Invicta, and there does seem to be a sad lack of alternate history mods.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, just to self-advertize, I am going to try and create the definate mod for Finno-Ugric pagans and maybe other pagans as well if enough ethnic experts voice themselves.

 

[Ulminati]

does anyone know if the Game of Thrones mod for CKII is anywhere near playable yet? I've been eyeing it for some time, trying to psyche myself up to do a House Greyjoy let's play.

 

[IDtenT]

does anyone know if the Game of Thrones mod for CKII is anywhere near playable yet? I've been eyeing it for some time, trying to psyche myself up to do a House Greyjoy let's play.

It really needs playable republics.

 

[Trash]

So what's the definitive mod(s) right now? I had quite a bit of fun with Lux Invicta, and there does seem to be a sad lack of alternate history mods.

CKIIplus is probably the biggest overhaul. Lots of awesome but a bit too much balancing involved for me. The maker loves his multiplayer and sometimes goes a little overboard trying to balance everything for just that. The Game of Thrones mod is the second biggest and a fan favourite. Mostly because of its source material from what I see but whatever.

 

[MapMan]

I have played neither EUIII or this. I want to get into one of those games, what would you guys recommend? Maybe someone could point out the main difference between those two games as well?

 

[Trash]

EUIII is about guiding a nation through the ages. CKII is about guiding a dynasty through the middle ages.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

In general, EU3 is the baseline Paradox game, the most simple and broadly scaled one. All the others use the same fundamentals but add a whole different layer on top of it that defines that game.

The thing in CK2 is the character system. You're not playing a nation, you're playing a character (+ his heirs), which leads to a weird kind of emergent narrative in the game as life and times of the House of _________ have drama, unfortunate accidents, backstabbing, unfortunate accidents, war, unfortunate accidents and fatherly love (= unfortunate accidents). It also features expanded combat mechanics, being the most sophisticated Paradox game when it comes to war this side of Hearts of Iron games (where war is the name of the game).

 

[Tigranes]

In addition: Always start with EU3. Then pick what part you like most and go for that.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Note though: Economy in EU3 is it's own thing, and that's a good thing since Inflation is a pretty crap mechanic.

 

[oscar]

being the most sophisticated Paradox game when it comes to war this side of Hearts of Iron games (where war is the name of the game).

I prefer EU3 combat. Different cultural units and doesn't have CK's "Outnumber them by more than 33 percent = victory" problem. In EU3 tech, discipline, terrain and good generals make things a lot less certain and can allow a small army to defeat one much larger. I'd be happy if they just replaced the current one with EU3's, even though some people find it too dice based.

 

[PorkaMorka]

There may be a lot of mechanical depth to CK2's combat, but it doesn't really seem to come across in play.

All you really need to do is...

-Have more troops if possible.
-Have non Craven leaders with high martial stat if possible
-Don't attack across rivers if possible.
-If someone has a penalty for leading the center... don't put them in the center.

It's very tedious as well, since sieges are slow, there are many sieges per province and the enemy AI is pretty good about trying to avoid combat when it knows that it will lose. Meaning more effort to pop moles.

 

[20 Eyes]

Gotta disagree with Varrna on CKII having the most sophisticated combat (next to the obvious winner HOI). Navies are just invincible taxis, for one. The composition of your army is decided only by your infrastructure, this is mostly separate in every other Paradox game. There are no tanks/artillery/siege weapons/whatever. It really seems more like Battle of the Doomstacks than the other games. Mercenaries and holy orders are interesting, but EUIII has mercenaries and a bunch of other stuff that is missing here.

My biggest problem with CKII is that the dynasty management just isn't as interesting as what you lose from the expanded nation managing you get in the other titles. You lose most of the nation control you have in EU3, Vicky II, HoI 3... and in return you can decide whether cousin Milo marries a homosexual or a hunchback. It just doesn't seem like a fair tradeoff.

I still like the game, it just doesn't do for me what the other Paradox titles do.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

In EU3 mercenaries are overpriced buffoons though, useless for large countries and too expensive for small ones. There's also the thing that naval combat in EU3 is almost purely a simple algorhytm of comparing the size of fleets involved + NIs present, which again goes back to "grrrrr big nation auto-win, take many provinces from small neighbours" problem that plagues EU3 the badly (not as bad as in Victoria 2 tho).

The reason CK2 combat is more interesting is because of the more longterm infrastructural thinking involved in creating your military, and the greater emphasis on terrain and leaders instead of tech and numbers. I've fought off doomstacks with half their size by using mountains and defensive leaders, and in my pagan games I know it's perfectly possible to beat the living shit out of technologically superior neighbours (while in EU3 tech advantage in units is an almost guaranteed auto-win, with only exception coming from the enemy having massive numerical superiority and manpower). Terrain can even the odds in EU3 as well, but this ties into the fact that there are a lot more units at disposal there and most likely the loss of a doomstack is getting reversed shortly when inner provinces pump out an entirely new one. There's also the fact that in CK2 you are working with much more limited resources, while a few hundred years into EU3 you will have so many doomstacks you won't need but a fraction of your army 90% of the time, and so much manpower you won't be running out very soon and probably have positive gain when you're not having 10 stacks suffering attrition.

 

[oscar]

The problem with losing manpower in EU3 is that you rack up war exhaustion, what means you get more and more rebellions (and these can be in your far-flung colonies as well).

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Yea, but generally your enemy gets the same, and usually I've found that a quick but WE intensive war is preferable to taking breathers to lower WE while at war.

And of course, a powerful nation can probably spare a few doomstacks for rebel hunting.

 

[Luzur]

Well, just to self-advertize, I am going to try and create the definate mod for Finno-Ugric pagans and maybe other pagans as well if enough ethnic experts voice themselves.

if you do, could you kinda derp down the muslims to a more normal level? all the horror stories ive read..

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, just to self-advertize, I am going to try and create the definate mod for Finno-Ugric pagans and maybe other pagans as well if enough ethnic experts voice themselves.

if you do, could you kinda derp down the muslims to a more normal level? all the horror stories ive read..

Actually, currently I'm waiting for them to patch that shit themselves.

 

[IDtenT]

I've played about at least 5 games since the latest patch and not once did Islam threaten Catholic Europe. The latest patch even made Catholic Iberia playable.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Not my experience, looking at things like Emir of Aquitane or Italy that show up without fail.

 

[DakaSha]

I have this but havent played it yet. Is each game (very?) different? (even if taking the same character)

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, being in a different religion changes everything, and just your neighbours and geographical location mean a lot (this is without accounting for random events and characters, which tend to change the game even for just the same dude you start with). For example, in Spain you're fucked early on as a Christian, your ass being on the receiving end of the proverbial Sword of Andhaira from the start most of the time. However, playing as some pagans or muslims on the Eastern edge of the map gives you some safety early on due to being far away from angry angry Christians and angry angry Muslims... But then the goddamn Mongorians show up and wreck your shit in ways you didn't think were possible.

With my mod (incorporating aspects from the apparently discontinued Pagan Mod), Baltic gameplay also changes radically. For one thing, Pagans are a real pain in the ass there, having superior armies early game and a free Raid CB to mooch your moolah with. However, eventually when tech edges out it's in Christian interests to get rid of all the various butt-pirates that roam the Baltic Sea at regular intervals, right at the source, so crusades will be launched to wipe them out (not a Crusade, the pope has his hands full dealing with the Sword of Andhaira). And of course, I added a little something that can help out Lithuanians build up a large nation before this happens, them having access to a Pagan Unification CB (my creation, allows conquest of provinces with same pagan religion and culture; notice that not culture group, because that's be really fucking powerful for Finno-Ugrics) without the need for an excellent ruler (normally requires a pagan ruler with either Military at 20 or Diplomacy and Intrigue/Stewardship both at 18, AND the Ambitious trait).

In addition, I changed the way things work in the Eastern edge of Rus, with new and correctly labeled Finno-Ugric cultures (in addition to pre-existing Komi, Mordvin and Mansi were added) placed and the borders adjusted to be historical at the start (several provinces wouldn't actually be conquered until 200 years after the game start) and a Finno-Ugric vassal added to the Cumans. The Eastern groups are generally larger, due to having borders with more dangerous neighbours, but like all pagans have very little choices for expansion. In theory they should last 100 years longer than the Baltic pagans (estimated conquest at around 100 years from game start for those).