Community Codex GOTY 2015 - Results

[Excidium II]

PEBCAK

 

[InD_ImaginE]

You almost make it sound like choices and deep reactivity it’s a bad thing. Every time I read those complaints about teleporting, the message I’m getting is that your inner teenager is saying something like this “Please, I want moar exploring and moar things to kill.

Reactivity is good. But in AoD it is basically railroading, in the sense that, "Oh playing a talky talky lore knowing guy aren't we?" "Oh, you don't make your character a handsome cripple in char creation or think that you already have enough point in that skill? Insta death for you!" There really is not much alternate solution at that point on. You either save-scum or re-roll. While impressive in the first, maybe 10 hours, it gets old pretty fast. In the case that it doesn't result in insta-death scene, you will be reprieved of skill points because you failed. Which only make future encounters bloody harder, resulting in death or no skill points, ad infinitum.

he only difference between you and Skyrm fans, is that they don’t pretend to care about stats.

Because certainly everything is binnary. Either you get a railroading in guise of c&c and reactivity or you get Bethesda open world game.

 

[hell bovine]

You almost make it sound like choices and deep reactivity it’s a bad thing. Every time I read those complaints about teleporting, the message I’m getting is that your inner teenager is saying something like this “Please, I want moar exploring and moar things to kill. I don’t give a shit about serious writing and choices. Fuck this. I just want to kill more things and walking in my air pee gees!” Don’t get me wrong, but you guys deserve all the mainstream popamole cRPg crap with boring reused settings that come your way. The only difference between you and Skyrm fans, is that they don’t pretend to care about stats.

When I've attempted a second AoD playthrough, my character accidentally teleported himself out of the first city maybe 15 minutes into the game; I have uninstalled the game after that. I prefer exploration without cattle prodding of the "in this direction you will go" variety. Ironic that you mention Skyrim, because this feature is actually worse than the "quest compass".

 

[Vault Dweller]

Accidentally? Nothing happens "accidentally" in the game. More like you clicked on a text option without reading or agreed to a proposition without thinking about it and then you got teleported or killed.

 

[throwaway]

tl;dr: Codexers hate Fallout, Final Fantasty and shitty jRPG bullet storm games.

And this is how I rationalise my wasting time here.

 

[hell bovine]

Accidentally? Nothing happens "accidentally" in the game. More like you clicked on a text option without reading or agreed to a proposition without thinking about it and then you got teleported or killed.

I didn't got my character killed; he simply progressed to the second city, as to why it happened - I don't remember the details anymore. Like I wrote, I find this sort of design worse than Skyrim's quest compass. (choose option A, go to page 24 is not the sort of exploration I enjoy)

 

[Vault Dweller]

Except it's really not. If I have to guess, you played as an assassin, your target offered you a deal and asked you to escort him to the second city, you said sure and lo and behold you were taken to the second city. Exploration has nothing to do with it.

 

[hell bovine]

Except it's really not. If I have to guess, you played as an assassin, your target offered you a deal and asked you to escort him to the second city, you said sure and lo and behold you were taken to the second city. Exploration has nothing to do with it.

I played a grifter and I think it was something to do with the mines quest. It's not like the quest or character class matter; I'd be fine - had I played an assassin - with failing a quest, because my character was supposed to escort someone, but got busy with something else and forgot to do it, for example. Teleporting on the other hand, not so much.
I had a very positive first impression of AoD, but the further into the game I got, the more it felt like "choose option A, go to page 24" (though it wasn't due to just teleporting). And that was the impression I was left with after finishing the game.

 

[Tigranes]

You said you uninstalled the game after 15 minutes, is that what you mean by 'the impression I was left with after finishing the game'?

 

[Xzylvador]

AoD is the best cRPG I played in 2015.

You didn't play Underrail? It's better, that's a fact!

Spoiler

 

[Gregz]

Let's not take choices out, let's stop pretending picking from a plate of pre-defined scenarios served by the developer has the right to be called choice in something trying to be an RPG in the computer. That ain't how RPG works, that's a CYOA.

I think if you step back and re-read what you typed, you'll realize you're making an impossible request of the developer.

Even the most open sandbox has limited resources, quest hubs, art assets, etc. and the only way to include a start-to-finish story arc involves a narrative, which is inherently linear. I.e. requires railroading the player through the story elements for it to work. The trick is to disguise the railroad so the player thinks things happened according to their choices.

What you're asking for is a dynamic GM in a computer game, and since art assets (graphics, good writing, voice, music) are always scarce, a cRPG will always be inherently finite in what it can deliver.

 

[hell bovine]

You said you uninstalled the game after 15 minutes, is that what you mean by 'the impression I was left with after finishing the game'?

I understand that the attention span of posters on codex is short, but really

When I've attempted a second AoD playthrough, my character accidentally teleported himself out of the first city maybe 15 minutes into the game; I have uninstalled the game after that. I prefer exploration without cattle prodding of the "in this direction you will go" variety. Ironic that you mention Skyrim, because this feature is actually worse than the "quest compass".

 

[Tigranes]

You said you uninstalled the game after 15 minutes, is that what you mean by 'the impression I was left with after finishing the game'?

I understand that the attention span of posters on codex is short, but really

When I've attempted a second AoD playthrough, my character accidentally teleported himself out of the first city maybe 15 minutes into the game; I have uninstalled the game after that. I prefer exploration without cattle prodding of the "in this direction you will go" variety. Ironic that you mention Skyrim, because this feature is actually worse than the "quest compass".

I should, indeed, learn to read.

From what I remember the mine teleport can be a little bit ambiguous, i.e. it doesn't have a huge red flag going WARNING U WILL LEAVE ACT 1 whereas other similar cases often do. It's sloppiness rather than a game-ruining feature, especially after most teleports were removed / signalled properly since the first Beta.

Not sure anything would be improved by taking out those teleports, and it's sure as hell better than going back and forth and back and forth adn back and forth and back and forth in most other RPGs.

 

[Excidium II]

Let's not take choices out, let's stop pretending picking from a plate of pre-defined scenarios served by the developer has the right to be called choice in something trying to be an RPG in the computer. That ain't how RPG works, that's a CYOA.

I think if you step back and re-read what you typed, you'll realize you're making an impossible request of the developer.

Even the most open sandbox has limited resources, quest hubs, art assets, etc. and the only way to include a start-to-finish story arc involves a narrative, which is inherently linear. I.e. requires railroading the player through the story elements for it to work. The trick is to disguise the railroad so the player thinks things happened according to their choices.

What you're asking for is a dynamic GM in a computer game, and since art assets (graphics, good writing, voice, music) are always scarce, a cRPG will always be inherently finite in what it can deliver.

I don't know how you reached the conclusion that I'm asking for a content-creating computer GM, when what I'm talking about is hardly ground-breaking specially in strategy genre which is like a wiser brother to RPGs. I'm talking about less completely handmade scenarios where everything is already scripted and all possible player actions are manually accounted for. Now, THAT is working agains impossible odds.

 

[hell bovine]

I should, indeed, learn to read.

From what I remember the mine teleport can be a little bit ambiguous, i.e. it doesn't have a huge red flag going WARNING U WILL LEAVE ACT 1 whereas other similar cases often do. It's sloppiness rather than a game-ruining feature, especially after most teleports were removed / signalled properly since the first Beta.

Not sure anything would be improved by taking out those teleports, and it's sure as hell better than going back and forth and back and forth adn back and forth and back and forth in most other RPGs.

I honestly don't remember the quest details anymore, so I'll have to take your word for it. As for the back-and-forth in RPGs - I'm not really a "completionist"; usually I don't follow a quest immediately (and I am fine with failing one as a result), sometimes I abandon quests, if they are not interesting enough, or even forget about them. That's why I don't often get the impression of doing a back-and-forth in RPGs, unless the game is very linear.

I don't think teleporting on its own breaks (or makes) the game, but it does interfere with my preferred playstyle, if that makes any sense.

 

[V_K]

What baffles me about this scripted C&Cs vs. sandbox debate is that it's not like we don't have at least three great examples that a game can perfectly well have both: Wizardry 7, Daggerfall and Dragon Wars.

 

[Lurker King]

When I've attempted a second AoD playthrough, my character accidentally teleported himself out of the first city maybe 15 minutes into the game; I have uninstalled the game after that. I prefer exploration without cattle prodding of the "in this direction you will go" variety. Ironic that you mention Skyrim, because this feature is actually worse than the "quest compass".

If the spirit meter in MotB is a moron detector, the choice at the mines is a functional illiterate detector. It tells a lot about cRPG players. They want to click fast without reading whole dialogues in order to kill more things. If your choices has serious consequences, you can't play without reading. Therefore, the game sucks.

 

[hell bovine]

When I've attempted a second AoD playthrough, my character accidentally teleported himself out of the first city maybe 15 minutes into the game; I have uninstalled the game after that. I prefer exploration without cattle prodding of the "in this direction you will go" variety. Ironic that you mention Skyrim, because this feature is actually worse than the "quest compass".

If the spirit meter in MotB is a moron detector, the choice at the mines is a functional illiterate detector. It tells a lot about cRPG players. They want to click fast without reading whole dialogues in order to kill more things. If your choices has serious consequences, you can't play without reading. Therefore, the game sucks.

Well, it certainly tells something about cRPG players, who think that getting teleported around as part of quest progression is "serious consequences".

 

[Vault Dweller]

You're stuck on that teleporting thing and unable to let go. No, teleporting isn't a consequence, it was done as a matter of convenience because not everyone likes walking back-n-forth.

 

[Jasede]

Did you at least add an option to turn it off in the options menu? I didn't play enough to check because it turned me off so much.

You should at least have like a poll and see if people like the teleportation or not. I already explained years ago why it was a complete deal breaker for me.

 

[hell bovine]

You're stuck on that teleporting thing and unable to let go. No, teleporting isn't a consequence, it was done as a matter of convenience because not everyone likes walking back-n-forth.

And I have already stated that the reason my impression turned negative wasn't just due the teleporting (codex short attention span, I guess). I've already posted my main issue with AoD some time ago on these forums, but that was before the atmosphere started to resemble a boy band concert.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yet it's the teleporting you keep bringing up.

 

[Irenaeus III]

What choice in the mine are you guys even talking about?

 

[Vault Dweller]

If you fix the machines for the Aurelians, they take you to Maadoran whether you like it or not. :teleporting:

 

[Irenaeus III]

Oh, right. You have to side with them to fix it for them.

Maybe you should include an option to kill them all after you help them, so you can return to Antidas lmao