Company News Codex Scoop: Brian Fargo has acquired the trademark for Torment (but not Planescape)

[skuphundaku]

Discussions on other websites

Gamebanshee: http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/110...-rights-spiritual-successor-in-the-works.html
NeoGAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=44981567
Obsidian Forum Community: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62852-a-new-planescape-torment/
No Mutants Allowed: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62775
VG24/7: http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/02/inxile-staffer-hints-at-planescape-torment-follow-up/
Bioware Social Network: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/15140004/1
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/145j5o/brian_fargo_has_acquired_the_rights_to_torment/

You can add RPS to the list: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/12/03/pleasure-without-planescape-a-new-torment/

 

[Infinitron]

Discussions on other websites

Gamebanshee: http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/110...-rights-spiritual-successor-in-the-works.html
NeoGAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=44981567
Obsidian Forum Community: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62852-a-new-planescape-torment/
No Mutants Allowed: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62775
VG24/7: http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/02/inxile-staffer-hints-at-planescape-torment-follow-up/
Bioware Social Network: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/15140004/1
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/145j5o/brian_fargo_has_acquired_the_rights_to_torment/

You can add RPS to the list: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/12/03/pleasure-without-planescape-a-new-torment/

Meh, they don't mention our scoop - that we found out what "in" Colin has with the IP.

EDIT: And now they do.

 

[skuphundaku]

Discussions on other websites

Gamebanshee: http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/110...-rights-spiritual-successor-in-the-works.html
NeoGAF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=44981567
Obsidian Forum Community: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62852-a-new-planescape-torment/
No Mutants Allowed: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62775
VG24/7: http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/02/inxile-staffer-hints-at-planescape-torment-follow-up/
Bioware Social Network: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/15140004/1
Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/145j5o/brian_fargo_has_acquired_the_rights_to_torment/

You can add RPS to the list: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/12/03/pleasure-without-planescape-a-new-torment/

Meh, they don't mention our scoop - that we found out what "in" Colin has with the IP.

EDIT: And now they do.

Dexter set them straight.

Also, it seems that this news is bringing the Codex' server down.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Well, it's good news, but I'm rather skeptical that they could surpass the original without Planescape setting. Or even make something on par with it.
I kinda hate WotC right now. Just on how many licenses of murdered settings are they sitting?

 

[IronicNeurotic]

From the rps comments

“[T]hat I have new answers for the central story in the original Torment. So now that I know what can change the nature of a man, I ask: What does one life matter? … and does it matter at all?””
That. That is the missing the target so damn hard it breaks a hole through the wall.
Given that Avellone has gone on record saying he wrote just about everything in PS:T (including the story, all the lore and all the party member and major NPC dialog) I have to question how valid McCombs writing claim is. There is a big difference between “I wrote X” and “I wrote for X”.
As for the Planescape setting. Its the same as D&D, you can tell a fascinating story in the setting or you can tell a terrible story in it. D&D is a setting with space travel, steam punk, time travel, dimensional travel and thats capable of any reality bending you can hand wave with magic. The fact that everyone using it just sticks to elves, dwarfs and orcs is why we’re stuck with all the cliche D&D and D&D like settings. Point being the quality of the setting does not automatically transfer to the writing. In fact I’d say a crap setting encourages more imagination to work with leading to better writing, just look at KOTOR 2

 

[Dexter]

I guess I might as well say it here too.

Personally, what I loved the most about PS:T was its setting, the concept of different “planes of existence” with different laws of physics, species and cultures one had to interact with and Sigil as a Hubworld to it all (it’s also why I loved similar games like Sanitarium), so while they apparently can’t have “Planescape” as a world set by TSR I very much hope it’ll take place in a very similar setting…

It’s quite lovely in the way of the creativity and imagination that went behind it as a setting:

And while some others have tried similar, especially when “game designers” are trying to think of a setting instead of working within one that is based on literary work with dozens of writers participating and building upon for several years it often boils down to fit around the gameplay and be a bit game-designey/mostly functional around killing things or some great evil that one has to combat instead of an in-depth world one wants to explore (you can't create one like that in a few months). It also gives you that feeling that there's more going on around you and it's all bigger than you rescuing the world from X and that your laughable Adventure is just a small part of a bigger whole. Another recent pleasant exception was Dark Souls.

I also remember an older Online comic trying to explain the “planes”: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_PS_Comic.asp

And yes, I too believe that it is likely that a lot of the early BioWare games have profited from the Forgotten Realms license and its lore a lot or it might've become a lot more Dragon Age-y.

Since McComb has actually written parts of it and the Campaign Setting while working for TSR, at least his Wikipedia has these listed I hope he still has similar ideas for a setting and it doesn't become some bland game designed around the concept of whatever "Torment" means:
“Planescape Planescape Campaign Setting (monster design)
Planes of Law
Planes of Conflict
Players Primer to the Outlands (Audio CD script)
Well of Worlds
Hellbound: The Blood War
On Hallowed Ground
Faces of Evil: The Fiends
The Great Modron March”

 

[LeStryfe79]

I'm guessing they'll use Wasteland 2's engine and call it The Bard's Tale: Torment....I'm trying to think how the Bard songs would go. Hmmm....




Edit: Checked Wikipedia and I wonder if CMcC invented Bladesinging?

 

[Roguey]

Also LOL at people thinking this will be a turn-based tactical cRPG. Of which that was never the point at all in the game. It is actually more suited as an adventure game honestly.

I think it should be an action RPG. It'd be pretty boring if all you did was talk to people. All that item customization/progression has to be good for something and rtwp select all->attack doesn't cut it. The Flames of Vengeance expansion for Divinity 2 (minus end-game escort mission) felt a lot like how Torment should have played imo.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Also LOL at people thinking this will be a turn-based tactical cRPG. Of which that was never the point at all in the game. It is actually more suited as an adventure game honestly.

I think it should be an action RPG. It'd be pretty boring if all you did was talk to people. All that item customization/progression has to be good for something and rtwp select all->attack doesn't cut it. The Flames of Vengeance expansion for Divinity 2 (minus end-game escort mission) felt a lot like how Torment should have played imo.

That would be cool, but don't you think they would want to make use of the work they did on Wasteland 2? Also, I can't tell you how many times I read Colin's work while listening to something like Jack Off Jill. I had no idea those two were married until yesterday. Thanks for making my head explode, Roguey...

 

[Roguey]

That would be cool, but don't you think they would want to make use of the work they did on Wasteland 2?

Well it's not like New Torment will be turn-based or use most/any of Wasteland 2's systems and art. They could reuse the camera (assuming it's 3D) and tools like the dialogue editor.

 

[Zeriel]

That would be cool, but don't you think they would want to make use of the work they did on Wasteland 2?

Well it's not like New Torment will be turn-based or use most/any of Wasteland 2's systems and art. They could reuse the camera (assuming it's 3D) and tools like the dialogue editor.

I really fucking hope it's not 3D, though it probably is. So much of what makes Torment work is the art style, and it simply would not fly in 3D. It's why I lost all interest in Wasteland 2 the second I saw the first screenshot, but have vague hopes for Eternity. Budget 3D is so bad, while budget 2D is basically the same as expensive 2D.

 

[Infinitron]

while budget 2D is basically the same as expensive 2D.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I guess it might be worth their while to do something different as long as it was an attempt to create a new franchise. It could end up that PS:T will be a prequel of sorts to an entirely new type of game with an emphasis on story and agency.

 

[Zeriel]

while budget 2D is basically the same as expensive 2D.

Produced by talented artists, I mean. You can take 5 of the best 3D artists in the world, and no matter how you manage them, there's no way to get them to make, say, The Witcher 2. The reverse isn't true of 2D, which has been demonstrated again and again. It's no coincidence that DOS era games tended to be much bigger.

 

[Infinitron]

Produced by talented artists, I mean. You can take 5 of the best 3D artists in the world, and no matter how you manage them, there's no way to get them to make, say, The Witcher 2. The reverse isn't true of 2D, which has been demonstrated again and again. It's no coincidence that DOS era games tended to be much bigger.

Talent isn't the only factor. Budget determines whether you have to use tiles or whether you can draw unique backdrops for each area, for instance. BTW, you do realize that Torment's graphics were rendered from 3D models, right?

 

[LeStryfe79]

Fargo picked a bad place to show off graphics imho. The combination of gunmetal, noxious fumes, and acid sand gave the game a tacky look that I don't think is representative of the final product. That said, original Wasteland looked like an acid trip, so I think it's only retards who think the graphical style has somehow ruined an otherwise promising title.

 

[ironyuri]

while budget 2D is basically the same as expensive 2D.

And what is your point, Infinitron? This still looks better than Beamdog's BG:EE.

 

[Zeriel]

Produced by talented artists, I mean. You can take 5 of the best 3D artists in the world, and no matter how you manage them, there's no way to get them to make, say, The Witcher 2. The reverse isn't true of 2D, which has been demonstrated again and again. It's no coincidence that DOS era games tended to be much bigger.

Talent isn't the only factor. Budget determines whether you have to use tiles or whether you can draw unique backdrops for each area, for instance. Also, you do realize that Torment's graphics were rendered from 3D models, right?

Would "2D engine" satisfy you, then? Do you really look at BG 1 and go, "Sure, that art per level cost the same amount of labor and funding per completely unique area as Dragon Age?" I'm pretty sure the developers have even commented on this before, and you can see suggestions of it in terms of the ambition of content in the Project Eternity project at the given funding levels. Not having to do voice-overs, videos, huge marketing campaigns and so forth helps, but art is not a minor element either.

(It's not necessary to remind me that the character models in some Infinity Engine games were actually 3D. I realize this.)

On a more personal level I just tend to prefer painterly 2D art to 3D texturing, no matter whether the product starts off in 3dSmax or not.

 

[Dexter]

Produced by talented artists, I mean. You can take 5 of the best 3D artists in the world, and no matter how you manage them, there's no way to get them to make, say, The Witcher 2. The reverse isn't true of 2D, which has been demonstrated again and again. It's no coincidence that DOS era games tended to be much bigger.

Talent isn't the only factor. Budget determines whether you have to use tiles or whether you can draw unique backdrops for each area, for instance. Also, you do realize that Torment's graphics were rendered from 3D models, right?

He might have said it in a stupid way but he's definitely right, there was another long thread about this going on over here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...-to-expect-a-2d-isometric-engine-again.76197/

What it boils down to is...:
This was Planescape: Torment from 1999:

Spoiler

This is what we saw from Wasteland 2 3 months into production:

This is what we saw from Project: Eternity during pre-production:

Pre-Rendered 2.5D with hand-painted elements > RealTime 3D, as you will surely determine yourself reading through that thread and not listening to Skyway xD

 

[Infinitron]

Would "2D engine" satisfy you, then? Do you really look at BG 1 and go, "Sure, that art per level cost the same amount of labor and funding per completely unique area as Dragon Age?" I'm pretty sure the developers have even commented on this before, and you can see suggestions of it in terms of the ambition of content in the Project Eternity project at the given funding levels. Not having to do voice-overs, videos, huge marketing campaigns and so forth helps, but art is not a minor element either.

Oh, there's no question that high quality 3D maps are much more expensive than high quality 2D maps. But that doesn't mean you can make the latter on the cheap. Otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[janjetina]

By the "successor to Torment" I'm sure that the developers don't mean "it must have shitty combat, because that's what defined PS:T". So, the combat system can be anything really, so why not turn based combat, fit for an RPG (especially if they can reuse the system from W2 with some modifications, thus cutting development costs in that aspect and being able to focus more on the ones that made PS:T stand out)? On the other extreme, they can use the adventure game approach and do away with combat completely. I would be fine with either approach, or with a system similar to the one in Fallout. I will definitely not support an action RPG, i.e. Popamole: Tournament, but I'm sure the developers know their target audience and they would not have been making a spiritual successor to PS:T, but to something like Alpha Protocol if they wanted to make an action game.

 

[Crooked Bee]

They'll probably make it RTwP to cash in on the "Infinity Engine games" namedrop like P:E did.

 

[Zeriel]

Would "2D engine" satisfy you, then? Do you really look at BG 1 and go, "Sure, that art per level cost the same amount of labor and funding per completely unique area as Dragon Age?" I'm pretty sure the developers have even commented on this before, and you can see suggestions of it in terms of the ambition of content in the Project Eternity project at the given funding levels. Not having to do voice-overs, videos, huge marketing campaigns and so forth helps, but art is not a minor element either.

Oh, there's no question that high quality 3D maps are much more expensive than high quality 2D maps. But that doesn't mean you can make the latter on the cheap. Otherwise, I agree with you.

Okay, so we're just misunderstanding each other's lingo, then. I'm talking "modern era cheap", i.e cheap in comparison to the average AAA game (since I consider Planescape Torment, Project Eternity, etc, to be in the AAA category at least in terms of gameplay or storyline).

Also, Dexter nailed what I'm saying entirely. I'm not dogmatically opposed to 3D--just the results we always get from it. If every decently-made 3D game were as pretty as those PS:T screenshots I'd be fine with it. As much as people hate it, Diablo 3 is a good example of where art direction turns shitty 3D into something that actually looks quite nice. For whatever reason, though, the end result is usually face gen disaster zone.

 

[Infinitron]

They'll probably make it RTwP to cash in on the "Infinity Engine games" namedrop like P:E did.

I agree, there's probably no chance of this being TB. The question is, will they use Eternity's engine or modify Wasteland 2's?

 

[Brother None]

I agree, there's probably no chance of this being TB. The question is, will they use Eternity's engine or modify Wasteland 2's?

Eh? That's the same engine.