Colony Ship Early Access Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Parabalus]

btw. what's behind the door with lockpick 6 on level 3?

Some decent loot - disruptor, stasis and a gas mask.

 

[Jaedar]

did it with sneak 2 and dex 8. really not that hard.

the only thing impossible with those stats is to do it without cloaking field. and i tried hard to.

Maybe I'm just really bad then? I can't find any opportunity to advance past the first camera without the cloaking field, and then the stealth bonus degrades too much by the time I reach the row where the eye is located, making for like 3 rows of permared tiles, until eventually the camera turns fully and I got spotted standing under the third camera (the only "safe" tile I can reach).

I think sneak skill doesn't help that much in this quest, since the cameras appear to be pass/fail, instead of slowly gathering awareness like biologicals.

 

[Sòren]

did it with sneak 2 and dex 8. really not that hard.

the only thing impossible with those stats is to do it without cloaking field. and i tried hard to.

Maybe I'm just really bad then? I can't find any opportunity to advance past the first camera without the cloaking field, and then the stealth bonus degrades too much by the time I reach the row where the eye is located, making for like 3 rows of permared tiles, until eventually the camera turns fully and I got spotted standing under the third camera (the only "safe" tile I can reach).

I think sneak skill doesn't help that much in this quest, since the cameras appear to be pass/fail, instead of slowly gathering awareness like biologicals.

u can pass the first line of cameras without cloaking by going straight to the right (or left, doesn't matter, it's symmetric), waiting in the corner until the camera in the second row turns to the other side than the one directly in front of u (those work assymetric), go as far along the wall as u can and then move towards the centre of the map, so between the first and second row of sarphogus. there is an area there where the cameras cannot see u. directly in the centre of the map.

after that u have to activate ur cloaking field to get any further. i had to do that at least.

 

[Tsubutai]

How much Sneak is needed to get the eye? Sneak 5 isn't enough to get past the cameras. Is the cloaking field gadget necessary?

You can do it with Sneak 4 and the cloak:

Spoiler

I think this needs a very upgraded cloak. I couldn't do it with sneak 5, ghost and just 4 turn duration on the cloak, the cameras would spot me every time.

That stealth section has been updated at least twice since I posted that video to make it harder.

 

[Twiglard]

That stealth section has been updated at least twice since I posted that video to make it harder.

Now I can't make it even with [Sneak 5] and a cloaking field with Mk1 components and a Mk2 battery.

 

[Sòren]

yeah, just tried again. still works if u walk along the wall with the right timing and cloaking field. u just can't go into the centre anymore.

maybe i will make a vid or something, but it's still not that complicated. u just have to wait for the right moment in the corner until the cameras in the first 2 rows move in different directions.

edit: did it again without even paying attention to the cameras. what the hell are u people doing that it doesn't work for u? with cloaking field and batttery lvl 2 it's almost impossible to fail.

did they change something about getting out? that would be the hard thing to do.

 

[Jaedar]

edit: did it again without even paying attention to the cameras. what the hell are u people doing that it doesn't work for u? with cloaking field and batttery lvl 2 it's almost impossible to fail.

did they change something about getting out? that would be the hard thing to do.

It doesn't matter if you get caught after getting the eye.
You should make a video or a screenshot guide or something. For me almost all tiles in the map are red after one turn of stealth field being active, and I'd need 3 to reach the goal.

 

[Sòren]

used to work like that, but i got the most recent update only now (gog). so don't know if it still works.

 

[Tsubutai]

Spoiler

used to work like that, but i got the most recent update only now (gog). so don't know if it still works.

Yeah, that route got removed in the most recent update.

 

[Twiglard]

Are there going to be more routes for opening MC without stealthing for the eye? How about [Lockpick 6], allying with the Church, impersonating a guard, paying a large bribe or blasting through multiple waves of Church militants?

If not, it's certainly an unusual design decision. My build with no speech skills presently can avoid losing content, except for some Church quests. Beating Ol' Bub is going to be a large part of a competition as to who's the biggest murderous sociopath and you want to take it away from a large proportion of players.

 

[Tsubutai]

I don't know whether additional routes are planned, but as it stands a single feat - Prowler - is enough to at least reach the eye, so there will always be the option to just postpone the heist until you level up and can take it. I guess it's not that different to places like the Abyss in AoD that you couldn't reach or navigate without satisfying some rather specific build requirements.

 

[Parabalus]

Are there going to be more routes for opening MC without stealthing for the eye? How about [Lockpick 6], allying with the Church, impersonating a guard, paying a large bribe or blasting through multiple waves of Church militants?

If not, it's certainly an unusual design decision. My build with no speech skills presently can avoid losing content, except for some Church quests. Beating Ol' Bub is going to be a large part of a competition as to who's the biggest murderous sociopath and you want to take it away from a large proportion of players.

There has to be some good content gated behind stealth, otherwise what's the point?

Before this update it was just the Black Hand fort.

 

[Sòren]

I don't know whether additional routes are planned, but as it stands a single feat - Prowler - is enough to at least reach the eye, so there will always be the option to just postpone the heist until you level up and can take it. I guess it's not that different to places like the Abyss in AoD that you couldn't reach or navigate without satisfying some rather specific build requirements.

i thought it was tunnel runner that would make the difference.

how do yellow tiles change anything about the cameras?

 

[Tsubutai]

how do yellow tiles change anything about the cameras?

It removes some red tiles that would otherwise block paths from one green tile to another. Tunnel runner might work too, but I don't have a character that can quickly test it.

 

[Jaedar]

Yeah about this stealth eye.
I can't do it with sneak 6+ghost* and a 1/1/1** cloaking device. I am not going to say it is impossible, but it sure seems like there's no clear path. With sneak 6+prowler I think it might be doable without the cloaking device, since with those high levels you can sit under any camera with impunity, and some of the tiles directly to the side of the camera are yellow, which lets you manoeuvre under the camera while it is perpendicular to the wall. I don't have the patience to try and work it out, and realistically everyone will have a stealth field anyway. Pretty sure it's also possible with sneak6+runner, since then you can get infinite value from your cloaking device, but I haven't tested.

It also feels like there's insufficient feedback, since the cameras seem entirely binary, either they see you or they don't, with no different states like normal enemies. Is there even a functional difference between yellow, green and safe tiles?

As another part of stealth feedback, I'm not a huge fan of the fact that enemies can be takedownable or no depending solely on if they are facing diagonally or not (by putting their back to a diagonal tile, an enemy can effectively block being stabbed from their only blindspot, as all adjacent tiles will now have vision.

What does the datajack with a "hardware encryption key" that you find in one of the tombs do? It doesn't show up in inventory.

*Ghost probably doesn't help at all.
** could be a 1/1/2 cloaking device, but the cloaking device loses effectiveness so rapdily each turn I don't think it would matter to have it active for one more turn.

 

[Sòren]

got the eye with sneak 2, cloaking field 1/1/2 and prowler. u can also loot one of the two other sarcophogus under such prerequisites.

tunnel runner is probably not effective for those stats however.

 

[Jaedar]

got the eye with sneak 2, cloaking field 1/1/2 and prowler. u can also loot one of the two other sarcophogus under such prerequisites.

tunnel runner is probably not effective for those stats however.

I guess prowler is key as tsubutai said.

Also, anyone have some tips for the robot? EMP nades just seem to reduce its ap by 5, it ignores flash/gas/smoke, and it has obscene armor and damage output. And a disruptor grenade for good measure. I guess maybe emp nade per turn + shotgun stagger might reduce the dps enough that I can eventually take it down? That's hella costly in resources though.

 

[Tsubutai]

Yeah about this stealth eye.
I can't do it with sneak 6+ghost* and a 1/1/1** cloaking device. I am not going to say it is impossible, but it sure seems like there's no clear path. With sneak 6+prowler I think it might be doable without the cloaking device, since with those high levels you can sit under any camera with impunity, and some of the tiles directly to the side of the camera are yellow, which lets you manoeuvre under the camera while it is perpendicular to the wall. I don't have the patience to try and work it out, and realistically everyone will have a stealth field anyway. Pretty sure it's also possible with sneak6+runner, since then you can get infinite value from your cloaking device, but I haven't tested.

It also feels like there's insufficient feedback, since the cameras seem entirely binary, either they see you or they don't, with no different states like normal enemies. Is there even a functional difference between yellow, green and safe tiles?

As another part of stealth feedback, I'm not a huge fan of the fact that enemies can be takedownable or no depending solely on if they are facing diagonally or not (by putting their back to a diagonal tile, an enemy can effectively block being stabbed from their only blindspot, as all adjacent tiles will now have vision.

What does the datajack with a "hardware encryption key" that you find in one of the tombs do? It doesn't show up in inventory.

*Ghost probably doesn't help at all.
** could be a 1/1/2 cloaking device, but the cloaking device loses effectiveness so rapdily each turn I don't think it would matter to have it active for one more turn.

For the cameras, the only difference between yellow and green tiles is that you get caught if you end your turn on a yellow tile. The datajack thingy does show up in the inventory, but it's easy to overlook because it only takes up one square. It's an upgrade for the Intelligence implant that gives 10% extra XP and will be needed to access the bridge later in the game. Ghost is useful for looting all three sarcophagi without alerting the guards but no use at all for getting past the cameras since they don't respond to noise. Prowler is definitely the MVP feat for that section since it lets you get past the cameras without using the cloak at all:

Spoiler

As for the robot, spamming pulse grenades is certainly one way to go - you can get six if you hoard them, and each one does 16 damage to it, so if you start with a high initiative character throwing all of them you're about 90% of the way to killing it. Otherwise, there's a few ways of doing it. For a full party, the easiest way imo is to spread your guys out so the robot can only panic one with its grenade, get your squishiest character into cover by climbing the ladder, and focus down the turrets first since they hurt a lot. High evasion solo characters can ignore the turrets more or less and should just focus on the robot instead.

 

[Jaedar]

As for the robot, spamming pulse grenades is certainly one way to go - you can get six if you hoard them, and each one does 16 damage to it, so if you start with a high initiative character throwing all of them you're about 90% of the way to killing it.

It hurts my brain to even think of using up all the grenades. What if I need them next patch?

My current strat is to stasis the robot before it has a chance to act, but I can't kill both turrets before robot gets unstasis'd, and that point it's a pretty quick slide downhill as one party member is sure to get focused or high roll'd and die. Maybe I just need to stasis a turret as well, and then try to alpha strike the robot as soon as it comes out of stasis. Potentially while just dumping my evasion, as the robot seems to have a 100% hit chance regardless and an extra 5 DR might be superior to some ap/evasion loss.

Edit: Managed to do it in the end with 3 emps, 2 stasis and more aggro/stims than I want to count.

 

[Marat]

What if I need them next patch?

 

[Jaedar]

My build in the latest patch, at the current end:

Spoiler

Completely dumped any combat ability on the mc, and instead went full combat on every other companion. Still, this was sufficient to do various hard fights (bot, black hand fortress), loot the entire church tomb and various talky/techy stuff. SkillBot main character with combat focused feels like the most fun way to play the game to me right now.

Not sure if this is optimal compared to 10 cha for more party bonuses, but I also don't know what other stats I would dump. 1 con is an obvious candidate, since I'm only using 2 aug slots anyway.

Also funny that it's just barely possible to reach steal 4 without tagging if you stack all skill rate bonuses.

Feedback on skills balancing for tagging:
I don't think steal is worth tagging right now. You can easily get steal 3 in chapter 1 regardless, and while getting a longslide EX in the factory is strong, you can still get it a bit later and it's not a huge payoff for an entire tag. The various small amounts of ammo and grenades are not enough, I think there needs to be some pickpocketing/high tech theft stuff available in the habitat. Or rename steal 'sleight of hand' or something and have it give some accuracy/reaction bonuses or something in addition to its current use. Or rename is subterfuge and merge it with impersonate?

Impersonate is also very dubious, as it's used by far the least of the dialogue skills, and you can pull off a lot of convos even while failing the impersonates as long as your other skills are good (high disposition probably also works). It's also almost entirely leveled from the generic speech++ xp you get when winning a dialogue encounter.

I don't think sneak skill does a lot compared to the perks, and the perks are kinda mandatory anyway? Not super confident in this, as I don't have a "pure stealth" run to compare to so I'm not sure what I'm missing in terms of potential takedowns (I did loot the armory in the factory stealth section, and then do the computer checks to deal with the leader). It certainly doesn't help that to get value out of most hard sneak encounters you need high lockpick/computer/electronics anyway

Biotech is probably in a good state, but I'm not super sure. Tagging it will for sure get you more augs faster which is arguably entirely sufficient, and without maxed learning rate I'd never hit 5 either, which would put dermal armor out of reach. And of course, a party without good electronics would be unable to fix broken ones, which would be further incentive. Still, I'm hoping there will be more environmental biotech stuff for the higher values, or aug upgrade kits.

 

[Elhoim]

I don't think steal is worth tagging right now. You can easily get steal 3 in chapter 1 regardless, and while getting a longslide EX in the factory is strong, you can still get it a bit later and it's not a huge payoff for an entire tag. The various small amounts of ammo and grenades are not enough, I think there needs to be some pickpocketing/high tech theft stuff available in the habitat. Or rename steal 'sleight of hand' or something and have it give some accuracy/reaction bonuses or something in addition to its current use. Or rename is subterfuge and merge it with impersonate?

We are going to add some environmental interactions for stealing credit chips and other things in cities, plus do other passes on quests.

I don't think sneak skill does a lot compared to the perks, and the perks are kinda mandatory anyway? Not super confident in this, as I don't have a "pure stealth" run to compare to so I'm not sure what I'm missing in terms of potential takedowns (I did loot the armory in the factory stealth section, and then do the computer checks to deal with the leader). It certainly doesn't help that to get value out of most hard sneak encounters you need high lockpick/computer/electronics anyway

We are working on the balance, I think it's in a bit better state but I agree that it needs to have a bit more impact.

Biotech is probably in a good state, but I'm not super sure. Tagging it will for sure get you more augs faster which is arguably entirely sufficient, and without maxed learning rate I'd never hit 5 either, which would put dermal armor out of reach. And of course, a party without good electronics would be unable to fix broken ones, which would be further incentive. Still, I'm hoping there will be more environmental biotech stuff for the higher values, or aug upgrade kits.

There will be quite a few biotech checks, especially in the later content for Hydroponics and Mission Control.

 

[razvedchiki]

do companions have their own agenda and clash with the pc?
also do you find any weapons/ammo in mission control?

 

[Tsubutai]

do companions have their own agenda and clash with the pc?
also do you find any weapons/ammo in mission control?

Yes on both counts. Jed and Faythe will leave/attack you if you attack the wrong people, and later companions are associated with specific factions and will leave if you betray those factions. Mission control has a unique assault rifle and energy SMG as well as some high end grenades and parts for your combat robot.

 

[Jaedar]

We are going to add some environmental interactions for stealing credit chips and other things in cities, plus do other passes on quests.

Yeah. Getting some bonus cash is nice and all, but I doubt it will ever be worth a precious tag (unless it's a huge amount of cash: overclocking everyones implants is too expensive for any build right now, especially combined with buying gear in the habitat. Overclocking an extra 3+ implants would make the tag feel valuable on every build I guess). Considering that the reward for tagging one of the tech skills is often a unique and best in class piece of gear (like energy rifle or dermal armor in act1) I think steal would have to offer something similar to compete. Feels like there should be lots of opportunities to swipe some good stuff in act 2, what with visiting the inner chambers of all 3 factions, the monks, etc.

do companions have their own agenda and clash with the pc?

They have opinions, and occasionally one of them will say "no, we have to solve this quest without killing, because the opponent is my friend". Pretty light on interference so far though, thankfully. It feels like they're being built up to real conflict 'soon' though.