Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

[gurugeorge]

But this is because I was stoned and forgot that cloaking device can buy me a lot of time to kill him.

Ah we've all been there at one time or another with various games

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I think I'm going to cry.

Wow. This is the worst. It really is. I don't even know what to say without crying like a little bitch. This studio produces some of the highest quality RPGs and they're going to shutdown. Where's the justice man.

Hot damn. That sucks.

 

[Pink Eye]

We aren't shutting down the studio but our options are limited.

Try Kickstarter please. Let the fans decide your studio's future. We won't make a million dollars, true, but, let us decide your studio's future by crowdfunding.

 

[MF]

Sad to hear you're closing up shop, Vault Dweller. I'd have loved to see a sequel, or your 'Weird Spanish Inquisition' idea.

Judging from the numbers I suppose it's mostly that you can no longer justify the grind as a team? Even with conservative estimates your burn rate must be higher than I thought.

 

[S.torch]

We killed dead forums, some subforums haven't seen any action in over 2 years, so let's not get our panties in a twist.

If you're not shutting down yet you shouldn't take down your own forums. Underrail is not the biggest RPG on the planet, but they have their own still going. At least put an Official discord going on to spread the word.

 

[Ol' Willy]

For a new run I had to do the Abe encounter with Evans alone and I had to agree with Mortmal , it's not given that he can clear it all by himself. I had to help him with a flashbang, otherwise his stats are just too bad to take both of these guys at once.

The encounter wasn't designed this way, you either use speech or fight 2 vs 2

 

[MrMarbles]

After reading on the steam forum that ITS is "hanging on by a thread", I just bought my umpteenth copy to give to a friend. Managed to get some of them into AoD and hoping to do the same with CS.

The 3 ITS games are the only ones I've made sure to 100% on steam (the account salute) so sad to see the studio struggling.

Thanks for keeping the spirit alive VD, and hope that the trickle of future steam income will still be helpful.

 

[Ol' Willy]

I assume the checkpoints like "crawl through" (the ones without combat) are to help limiting pathfinding. AI can already send you characters humping some obstacles, I can imagine it getting stuck in sprawling locations. But this crutch seems very crude, it would be much better to just enable quick travel within location like it was done in AoD.

Automap would have been very useful, mapping various points of interest and marking not passed skillchecks for revisit

 

[MF]

I assume the checkpoints like "crawl through" (the ones without combat) are to help limiting pathfinding.

That, and not requiring animations for climbing and such. Don't forget they lost Ivan.

 

[MrMarbles]

You staying in the game or what?

It's not that simple. We aren't shutting down the studio but our options are limited.

Colony Rats?

Could work! Quick to make, and the die-hard fans will for sure buy it, especially if it's set after the ending of CS and gives some hints on the continued story like DR.

Fight your way out of a brig in the engine area, through layers of gangs and authorities, to finally

Spoiler

reach the surface Exile-style and fight the psionic locals. A reunion with ROMEO as the last 10 CHA ally etc

 

[Pink Eye]

Don't forget they lost Ivan.

That dude was responsible for all the glorious executions in Dungeon Rats and Age of Decadence. It's one of the big reasons why Colony Ship doesn't have any execution animations that are similar in quality.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Vault Dweller I always thought that you were against crowdfunding because it took from future game profits and was unreliable. But if there is are no future games, then wouldn't giving crowdfounding a shoot be worth it? There may not be a 5th game, but after all you could boast about lasting more than Troika.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller I always thought that you were against crowdfunding because it took from future game profits...

Of course not. Who wouldn't want to have future profits ... today!?

But if there is are no future games, then wouldn't giving crowdfounding a shoot be worth it?

Because it would. not. work. KS isn't a magic well that grants wishes and funds games. It gives you a bit of money that are scaled to your level. If we ask for what we need, we won't get it. If we ask for what we can get, we'd only be milking our strongest supporters.

 

[Mortmal]

For a new run I had to do the Abe encounter with Evans alone and I had to agree with Mortmal , it's not given that he can clear it all by himself. I had to help him with a flashbang, otherwise his stats are just too bad to take both of these guys at once.

The encounter wasn't designed this way, you either use speech or fight 2 vs 2

It's good to see someone with the honesty to try it and give real feedback. I also took note of your previous post: speech and combat skills are exclusive, so you're actively punished for going with a charisma-based character. But why choose a charisma character? Because it's the only way to get the full party.

So, they worked seven years on this, and a notable difference is the shift from a solo character to a party system. However, it punishes you for using the party with a charisma-based character, as you won't level up your combat skills as much, leaving you with four ineffective characters for the optional encounters. And there isn’t enough content to justify calling those encounters optional.

No one told them this was a problem during early access?

 

[Goral]

Because it would. not. work. KS isn't a magic well that grants wishes and funds games. It gives you a bit of money that are scaled to your level. If we ask for what we need, we won't get it. If we ask for what we can get, we'd only be milking our strongest supporters.

Ask for what you need then and see whether you won't get it or not, so far you've made so many misjudged decisions with CS that I've lost count, so introspect on your own mistakes and for once do what everyone is telling you to do. Or have the balls to admit that you just don't want to continue instead of lying and saying things like "we're not dead yet" when without any warning you shut down your own forums (which was a huge dick move, especially for those who tried to translate your game for free or those who wanted to download mods that Sunfire and some others did) and for all we know have a different job already.

And yeah, don't even bother doing a Kickstarter (or Patreon) for CS sequel because that definitely won't work (sequels usually sell less for indie games and besides, as CS has shown you won't have enough budget to utilise this setting properly), instead go for that Inquisition game.

Anyway, the mistakes I have in mind are the learn-by-doing system, the wokeness to cater to a target that not in a million years would buy your games (and at the same time that annoys your core audience), the writing (as I've said, instead of another Miltiades or Neleos we got lifeless quest givers and lore dumpers and the whole setting was a wasted potential, we might as well have been in some underground facility, not once have I felt that I was on a space ship) plus other things I've mentioned in my review: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/colony-ship-release-thread.148806/page-42#post-8766955

To be honest I don't know why I even bother since I know you won't listen just as you didn't a year ago and earlier (even that Forbes interviewer suggested it in 2013):

If the situation is so dire then why not going with Kickstarter (ask for money that would allow you to continue, if you won't raise it then so be it) or Patreon? Unless you're bored with making RPGs and prefer to do something else. Your games were always very niche for special kind of players so it's not surprising that they don't sell too well.

I don't think that Patreon would work at all.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST FUCKING TRY
I WANT TO GIVE YOU MY MONEY

Kickstarter and Patreon are also quite powerful marketing tools. Patreon is also a source of steady income and a way to interact better with your fans or should I say - fans of your work.

Also, you've said yourself that you've had an offer from a fairly big developer which you've declined even though you've seen how much money you need to complete the game and in the end we got polished "The Pit" and rushed everything else and now it's the end. Great business decision for a former VP...

 

[Pink Eye]

That Spanish Inquisition game with the unique magic system would be a pretty good sell on KS imo.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Because it would. not. work. KS isn't a magic well that grants wishes and funds games. It gives you a bit of money that are scaled to your level. If we ask for what we need, we won't get it. If we ask for what we can get, we'd only be milking our strongest supporters.

Ask for what you need then and see whether you won't get it or not, so far you've made so many misjudged decisions with CS that I've lost count, so introspect on your own mistakes and for once do what everyone is telling you to do. Or have the balls to admit that you just don't want to continue instead of lying and saying things like "we're not dead yet" when without any warning you shut down your own forums (which was a huge dick move, especially for those who tried to translate your game for free or those who wanted to download mods that Sunfire and some others did) and for all we know have a different job already.

And yeah, don't even bother doing a Kickstarter (or Patreon) for CS sequel because that definitely won't work (sequels usually sell less for indie games and besides, as CS has shown you won't have enough budget to utilise this setting properly), instead go for that Inquisition game.

Anyway, the mistakes I have in mind are the learn-by-doing system, the wokeness to cater to a target that not in a million years would buy your games (and at the same time that annoys your core audience), the writing (as I've said, instead of another Miltiades or Neleos we got lifeless quest givers and lore dumpers and the whole setting was a wasted potential, we might as well have been in some underground facility, not once have I felt that I was on a space ship) plus other things I've mentioned in my review: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/colony-ship-release-thread.148806/page-42#post-8766955

To be honest I don't know why I even bother since I know you won't listen just as you didn't a year ago and earlier (even that Forbes interviewer suggested it in 2013):

If the situation is so dire then why not going with Kickstarter (ask for money that would allow you to continue, if you won't raise it then so be it) or Patreon? Unless you're bored with making RPGs and prefer to do something else. Your games were always very niche for special kind of players so it's not surprising that they don't sell too well.

I don't think that Patreon would work at all.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST FUCKING TRY
I WANT TO GIVE YOU MY MONEY

Kickstarter and Patreon are also quite powerful marketing tools. Patreon is also a source of steady income and a way to interact better with your fans or should I say - fans of your work.

Also, you've said yourself that you've had an offer from a fairly big developer which you've declined even though you've seen how much money you need to complete the game and in the end we got polished "The Pit" and rushed everything else and now it's the end. Great business decision for a former VP...

Damn, I am agreeing with Goral. What the fuck

 

[Pink Eye]

He brings some good points that need to be seriously considered by VD. By the way, making a sequel to CS would probably kill the studio, from VD's own words:

All such sequels sold less than half of the original (Legend of Grimrock, XCOM, Banner Saga, even Shadowrun). Since our games sell a LOT less, selling half would put us out of business.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/648410/discussions/0/3275816470984097855/#c3275816470984668218

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

He brings some good points that need to be seriously considered by VD. By the way, making a sequel to CS would probably kill the studio, from VD's own words:

All such sequels sold less than half of the original (Legend of Grimrock, XCOM, Banner Saga, even Shadowrun). Since our games sell a LOT less, selling half would put us out of business.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/648410/discussions/0/3275816470984097855/#c3275816470984668218

Tbh doing ANYTHING similar to the timeframe of AOD/CS (what, 5-7 years per game, correct me if I am wrong) will kill the studio.
The games are good, great even, but the team efficiency is slow loris style and marketing seems terribad.

 

[Pink Eye]

marketing seems terribad.

That's where Kickstarter comes in. It's not about money, it's also the free marketing the studio would get by putting their game up there. Millions of eyeballs, Reddit coverage (there are subreddits dedicated to covering Kickstarter games), youtube coverage (there's youtubers with a respectable 10k-100k subs that cover Kickstarter games), etc. Plus with all the hype that such a campaign would generate we'd even, if lucky, get a big youtuber to cover the campaign. I think the type of advertising we'd get from a kickstarter campaign would be more significant than sitting on steam with no visibility. We won't know of course unless VD gives it an attempt, that's the thing.

 

[thesecret1]

Well it's either KS, shuttering the studio, or doing outsourcing work for others (coder mines basically). A KS is definitely worth a try, and even if it didn't pan out, it might at least produce a nice bumb in sales for AoD and CS from exposure alone. Of course, to give it a serious shot, they ought to prepare some materials to present their vision, maybe even a small tech demo to showcase interesting bits, etc. which all costs time and effort to make, but even then, it sounds better than continuing to polish CS and hoping for a miracle

 

[Ol' Willy]

For a new run I had to do the Abe encounter with Evans alone and I had to agree with Mortmal , it's not given that he can clear it all by himself. I had to help him with a flashbang, otherwise his stats are just too bad to take both of these guys at once.

The encounter wasn't designed this way, you either use speech or fight 2 vs 2

It's good to see someone with the honesty to try it and give real feedback. I also took note of your previous post: speech and combat skills are exclusive, so you're actively punished for going with a charisma-based character. But why choose a charisma character? Because it's the only way to get the full party.

So, they worked seven years on this, and a notable difference is the shift from a solo character to a party system. However, it punishes you for using the party with a charisma-based character, as you won't level up your combat skills as much, leaving you with four ineffective characters for the optional encounters. And there isn’t enough content to justify calling those encounters optional.

No one told them this was a problem during early access?

I am not a big fan of party combat so if I had to assemble the party I usually play gimmick builds.

But the general rule is the same as in many other party games. You can dump CHA and go for very powerful main char who will do most of the heavy work, with party member(s) being a support for your char. Or you can invest in CHA and non-combat skills to have better party. It's a balance and you have to find the compromise which suits you the best. It's a flexible system, and don't tell me that for example Arcanum wasn't the same. Speech allows you to pick your fights and get better rewards. Colony Ship is even better in this regard because certain feats and implants give permanent passive bonuses to your party

As I said, I don't like the balance and go for extremes. I usually play solo or duo, or go for full party with main char being pure support.

My current run is the reproduction of my Dungeon Rats 10 CHA 10 INT non-combat MC with completely stocked full party. My char does absolutely nothing in combat, not even throwing grenades (my initiative is in negative lol), but gear and stat bonuses on party are well enough to compensate for this. I'll post screenies later, this is a fun run altogether

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

For a new run I had to do the Abe encounter with Evans alone and I had to agree with Mortmal , it's not given that he can clear it all by himself. I had to help him with a flashbang, otherwise his stats are just too bad to take both of these guys at once.

The encounter wasn't designed this way, you either use speech or fight 2 vs 2

It's good to see someone with the honesty to try it and give real feedback. I also took note of your previous post: speech and combat skills are exclusive, so you're actively punished for going with a charisma-based character. But why choose a charisma character? Because it's the only way to get the full party.

So, they worked seven years on this, and a notable difference is the shift from a solo character to a party system. However, it punishes you for using the party with a charisma-based character, as you won't level up your combat skills as much, leaving you with four ineffective characters for the optional encounters. And there isn’t enough content to justify calling those encounters optional.

No one told them this was a problem during early access?

Hey m8, here is some honest feedback.

CHA 10 builds with Cult Leader and full party are one of the easiest ways to play the game and also to 100% the content as well. With some thought put into it you can make a meatgrinder of a party, destroying everything in your path easily. For example, if you went 10 in CHA, 10 in INT and rest into whatever, you personally will suck in direct combat but still can perform important roles (grenade chucker / debuffer, meat shield, or just cloaked in the corner) with relegating combat to 3 companions whom you can build entirely for combat - meaning tagging a weapon skill, evasion/armor, crit and taking pure combat feats on them, and at the same time taking party based feats on yourself. Hell, with sneak feats on yourself you can make your 4 agi MC a good sneaker as well, letting IE Faythe focus solely on combat with assassin feat.

Going solo, there are more capable players than myself but mostly i played 2 builds - INT 10 Mastermind Alpha striker focused on rifles and crits, OR CON 10 Cyborg implanted to the gills, focusing on attrition combat, slowly but surely grinding everything into dust. Both of them tagged Computers, Lockpick, Streetwise (and later on Electronics) which is enough to cover ALL necessary talking points / skill checks for opening additional content. Mastermind went more into offense with focus into crit, second wind etc, while Cyborg went into evasion/armor.

Also make sure that the person which focuses on stealth is the same person who has science skills tagged and some points into steal, since those skills are used while sneaking (critical strike as well ofc for backstabs)

Yes, the game has flaws, lot of things are telegraphed badly, hell i rage quitted AoD at least 100 times xD

 

[Ol' Willy]

Finished 10 CHA 10 INT party run. MC through weird mind powers gives sizeable stat boosts to the party, lots of consumables, best gear, all implant upgrades and lots of overclocking. The party grows into well capable killing machines with decent stats and fully packed.

Five cyborgs fight is the only encounter I couldn't do. They have so much initiative so the fight will be started by non-stop assrape and your people will be half-dead before they can act. This could be mitigated by cloaking devices, but this robs you from very needed shields. And even then, for some reason I had only three such devices and main char has to take one for the team and drop in the first turn, and I simply can't kill all the cyborgs quick enough - damage output is not that reliant like on minmaxxed builds.

The fun thing about 10 CHA guy is that you can completely ignore investment into speech skills. Only Master Trader, but no tags or skillpoints into speech - just two or three tokens, and I still can pass the majority of speech checks, bar the most difficult ones

Evans becomes very capable sniper, gets high reaction and initiative

Faythe becomes very good with melee, high initiative and evasion, good crit chance and overall decent damage output

Jed is the least efficient, he can tank well, but damage output is still not good enough. He deals maybe 20-25% damage of entire party. Would have swapped him for one of the mutants but he got too much investment early on (sunk cost fallacy of sorts)

 

[Beans00]

You staying in the game or what?

It's not that simple. We aren't shutting down the studio but our options are limited.

Colony Rats?

Could work! Quick to make, and the die-hard fans will for sure buy it, especially if it's set after the ending of CS and gives some hints on the continued story like DR.

Fight your way out of a brig in the engine area, through layers of gangs and authorities, to finally

Spoiler

reach the surface Exile-style and fight the psionic locals. A reunion with ROMEO as the last 10 CHA ally etc

Cs is too shit of a setting for a game like that