Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
Patron
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
1,872,098
Location
Land of Rape & Honey ❤️
Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
I dunno about you, but I don't play games just to be taken advantage by assholes.

Escapism man, how does it work.

Even the shittiest game (and grimmest of settings) can be rescued by having a handful of bros that have an interesting personality.
 

Drowed

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
1,744
Location
Core City
I assume that people look at it this way: they made AoD, it sold enough to pay for the next game (Colony Ship), if CS doesn't sell enough to pay for the next game, it failed and was a mistake. In reality AoD didn't sell all that well (which is why we didn't make AoD 2) and paid for 50% of Colony Ship's budget. Some of this shortfall was relatively 'easy' to fix - work longer hours and weekends for 7 years, how hard could it be? Others - not so much. In 2020 we had enough money only to pay the contractors and not the core team. We had to compromise at every step and constantly settle for less simply because we didn't have enough money and manpower. It wears you down more than anything else.


The tentative sequel will require a bigger team and a bigger budget. Nothing crazy but at least one extra designer to share the workload (more like to make it easier to breathe for the rest of us) and more contractors (art and 3D). Probably 25% more overall.

Colony Ship is doing better than AoD in nearly every aspect and metric. Stronger sales in EA, on launch, in the first 3 months, etc.

It will probably generate 60% of that increased budget, meaning we expect it to sell 40-50% more than AoD. The problem is, it won't be enough and neither KS not Patreon will make up for the difference. So we'll continue improving the game throughout 2024 and then we'll see. Maybe we'll get lucky. Maybe we won't

Honestly, it makes perfect sense. AOD was already an extremely "thin" game, you could clearly tell that the game's content was pretty limited, even taking into account that it was designed with the idea that you would need multiple playthroughs to explore everything the game has to offer. Most of the game's environments were considerably barren, with not many characters to interact with and, more specifically, few activities to do. Which in a way even contributed to the atmosphere of the game - you really felt like you were in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, a destroyed world with not much to offer.

And it's obvious that this was intentional. After all, with a small team, you simply don't have the manpower to put a lot of content into the game, and especially quality content. AOD wouldn't be a better game if VD had hired two or three amateur writers to include fetch quests or random encounters throughout the maps. Not only would it be weak and unnecessary content, but it would also break the entire balance of the game that was designed based on how limited your access to the experience in each location is. VD did what he could within the limitations of what was possible to do and the goals he was trying to achieve.

CS, on the other hand, is clearly a more ambitious game. Moving to the Unreal Engine, which is not only a market standard, but allows for better visual quality and also certainly allows for the hiring of many more people who have experience with it. A setting and story that, from the beginning, left open the possibility of a sequel and even what it would be like. If AOD was a first step where the team was learning as they went, CS would be the opportunity where VD could use all the experience accumulated in previous games to finally present the complete version of what he always wanted to do.

But rarely are there times when the real world allows you to do things the way you want, and I can imagine how frustrating it must have been for him (and the team) to have to give up ideas, make compromises, and reduce the scope of what you intended to do to something that is possible to do. It's still better than trying to offer too much to end up being bad at everything you tried to do, but I imagine it must be discouraging to see how much you had to abandon your original vision at the end of the process. VD is not the first and will not be the last developer in which the game suffered considerably from the second act onwards.

At this point, I can understand the idea of "fuck it, either in the next game I can do something the way I intend, or it's not worth it."
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,164
aod had narrow focus in each playthrough. In each hub you would work only with single faction based on your choices. Sometimes you would switch sides/betray but you will still work with 1 guy at the same time.

On other hand colonoscopy is no longer short/narrow. And you will interact with all the factions whether you like it or not. Every single one. And if they are samey it becomes apparent.

Also each faction had 2 paths depending on which boss you follow. Or maybe im misremembering things.
 

quaesta

Educated
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Messages
159
They will probably close the studio, but not because CS flopped, but because Vince wants even BIGGER budget for their next game, and for now CS's sales is not enough for this.
More like "after working a decade for free on AoD, and overtime for 7 years on CS, VD is willing to call it quits if the market won't bear his games". Sucks for us, but I can hardly fault him or anyone else at ITS over making that call.
If I was VD I would just cut back on the budget by a huge margin. It's clear there is a market for Iron Tower's games, but the market isn't enough to make a return on investment. So we just cut back on the investment itself.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,799
They will probably close the studio, but not because CS flopped, but because Vince wants even BIGGER budget for their next game, and for now CS's sales is not enough for this.
More like "after working a decade for free on AoD, and overtime for 7 years on CS, VD is willing to call it quits if the market won't bear his games". Sucks for us, but I can hardly fault him or anyone else at ITS over making that call.
If I was VD I would just cut back on the budget by a huge margin. It's clear there is a market for Iron Tower's games, but the market isn't enough to make a return on investment. So we just cut back on the investment itself.

When you're working for a game for seven years or something, the return on investment needs to be massive. That's a huge amount of unpaid labor.

Small devs can justify it as a work of passion. Something that they do as a hobby because they enjoy it. But purely from a practical standpoint, for the creation and sale of a product, it's not sustainable at all.

Most devs (besides Jeff Vogel) realize that the only way to make it is to score at least one big hit. Sell millions of copies of something, and then you buy yourself breathing space for whatever the fuck you want to do: whether that's making the type of game you want to make, or just a lot of hookers and coke.

I think for it's niche Colony Ship sold very well, at 2k steam reviews a few months after launch and a good audience reception. But it wasn't a hit, and I think that's what Iron Tower needed to keep going, financially and for morale purposes. Where that line is only ITS will know.
 

quaesta

Educated
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Messages
159
When you're working for a game for seven years or something, the return on investment needs to be massive. That's a huge amount of unpaid labor.

Small devs can justify it as a work of passion. Something that they do as a hobby because they enjoy it. But purely from a practical standpoint, for the creation and sale of a product, it's not sustainable at all.

Most devs (besides Jeff Vogel) realize that the only way to make it is to score at least one big hit. Sell millions of copies of something, and then you buy yourself breathing space for whatever the fuck you want to do: whether that's making the type of game you want to make, or just a lot of hookers and coke.

I think for it's niche Colony Ship sold very well, at 2k steam reviews a few months after launch and a good audience reception. But it wasn't a hit, and I think that's what Iron Tower needed to keep going, financially and for morale purposes. Where that line is only ITS will know.
I was thinking too much on the business side of running a game studio, that I haven't thought about it in the perspective of a creative. Your post makes a lot of sense: if you are unable to expand upon your vision and instead, be forced to strip it all back, I too would get frustrated and stop creating.
 

Üstad

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
8,622
Location
Türkiye
I'm still unsure how cloaking field works in combat. Like how hard to get hit compared to distortion field, what's the hit chance when the enemy's alert thing at %50 or %100 etc.
 

Jrpgfan

Erudite
Joined
Feb 7, 2016
Messages
2,111
I'm still unsure how cloaking field works in combat. Like how hard to get hit compared to distortion field, what's the hit chance when the enemy's alert thing at %50 or %100 etc.
It depends on the enemies thermal vision. Its been a while since the last time I've played the game but iirc you can see it on the ui if you press alt(not entirely sure).
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
14,194
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You don't watch his videos for his opinions, which I learned very early on. Not that I have watched many of his videos in the past two months.
 

Üstad

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
8,622
Location
Türkiye
I'm still unsure how cloaking field works in combat. Like how hard to get hit compared to distortion field, what's the hit chance when the enemy's alert thing at %50 or %100 etc.
It depends on the enemies thermal vision. Its been a while since the last time I've played the game but iirc you can see it on the ui if you press alt(not entirely sure).
I know, but don't how much. Let's say the enemy has 50 thermal vision. Does that mean hit chance is lowered by %50 amount?
 

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,080
I'm still unsure how cloaking field works in combat. Like how hard to get hit compared to distortion field, what's the hit chance when the enemy's alert thing at %50 or %100 etc.
It's impossible to hit (with a regular weapon) your dude with a cloaking field on until the "alert" score hits 100%, pretty self-explanatory. Then yeah, the numbers are raising every turn depending on enemy thermal vision vs the device thermal reduce lvl. What I'm not sure either is how to calculate the alert numbers goin up from you shooting while still cloaked (to some degree you can in fact shoot and not being revealed right away).
 

Üstad

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
8,622
Location
Türkiye
I'm still unsure how cloaking field works in combat. Like how hard to get hit compared to distortion field, what's the hit chance when the enemy's alert thing at %50 or %100 etc.
It's impossible to hit (with a regular weapon) your dude with a cloaking field on until the "alert" score hits 100%, pretty self-explanatory. Then yeah, the numbers are raising every turn depending on enemy thermal vision vs the device thermal reduce lvl. What I'm not sure either is how to calculate the alert numbers goin up from you shooting while still cloaked (to some degree you can in fact shoot and not being revealed right away).
I didn't know about the first part, good to know. But what about when alert score hits %100 but I still have my cloak on? Is it reduced by some degree or it's just null at that point?
 

jackofshadows

Arcane
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
5,080
I'm still unsure how cloaking field works in combat. Like how hard to get hit compared to distortion field, what's the hit chance when the enemy's alert thing at %50 or %100 etc.
It's impossible to hit (with a regular weapon) your dude with a cloaking field on until the "alert" score hits 100%, pretty self-explanatory. Then yeah, the numbers are raising every turn depending on enemy thermal vision vs the device thermal reduce lvl. What I'm not sure either is how to calculate the alert numbers goin up from you shooting while still cloaked (to some degree you can in fact shoot and not being revealed right away).
I didn't know about the first part, good to know. But what about when alert score hits %100 but I still have my cloak on? Is it reduced by some degree or it's just null at that point?
Pretty sure just null. You can re-read the device description, don't remember any mentions of evasion bonuses. Also I was playing solo stealth guy as my 1st playthrough so it didn't feel like that too for sure.
 

Lt Broccoli

Educated
Joined
Feb 8, 2022
Messages
80
Just completed Colony Ship. Overall an enjoyable and engaging game. It has plenty of Choice and Consequence, a strong nod to a realism (of course the psychic abilities was questionable), interesting setting, some engaging characters, adequate graphics, and a decent soundtrack. I particularly like how they handled the improvement and variety of skills, intriguing way to handle stealth, their depiction of hit points being fixed (except for perks), tactical choice of equipment and weapons, and a minimal amount of hand-holding on quests. Solid work. I experimented with a number of builds, but won with one focusing on science, stealth and social skills with a smattering of combat skills and allied to the Protectors of the Mission faction. I'll likely play this one again in future with a different build.
 

Ibn Sina

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
999
Strap Yourselves In
Wait is Iron Tower dead?
They will probably close the studio, but not because CS flopped, but because Vince wants even BIGGER budget for their next game, and for now CS's sales is not enough for this.
I guess.

I assume that people look at it this way: they made AoD, it sold enough to pay for the next game (Colony Ship), if CS doesn't sell enough to pay for the next game, it failed and was a mistake. In reality AoD didn't sell all that well (which is why we didn't make AoD 2) and paid for 50% of Colony Ship's budget. Some of this shortfall was relatively 'easy' to fix - work longer hours and weekends for 7 years, how hard could it be? Others - not so much. In 2020 we had enough money only to pay the contractors and not the core team. We had to compromise at every step and constantly settle for less simply because we didn't have enough money and manpower. It wears you down more than anything else.


The tentative sequel will require a bigger team and a bigger budget. Nothing crazy but at least one extra designer to share the workload (more like to make it easier to breathe for the rest of us) and more contractors (art and 3D). Probably 25% more overall.

Colony Ship is doing better than AoD in nearly every aspect and metric. Stronger sales in EA, on launch, in the first 3 months, etc.

It will probably generate 60% of that increased budget, meaning we expect it to sell 40-50% more than AoD. The problem is, it won't be enough and neither KS not Patreon will make up for the difference. So we'll continue improving the game throughout 2024 and then we'll see. Maybe we'll get lucky. Maybe we won't

Isn't vince Ukrainian? I don't know why he doesn't approach EU institutes for funding. I am sure there is many
 

Atrachasis

Augur
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
211
Location
The Local Group
Isn't vince Ukrainian? I don't know why he doesn't approach EU institutes for funding. I am sure there is many

Eligibility for public funding depends on where your company is incorporated. ITS is a Canadian company, isn't it? Neither Canada (nor Ukraine, as a matter of fact) are part of the EU.

But the idea isn't bad. Canada might have grants for game development, too. If it's anything like in Europe, however, you need to demonstrate a certain financial and operational capacity and market reach to be taken seriously for a grant application. Public funding isn't meant to replace venture capital.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2022
Messages
2,506
Location
Vareš
1000011973.jpg

So these are the people ITS managed to capture in its audience, huh? RIP to this studio even if the $$ situation gets much better.
 

Litmanen

Educated
Joined
Feb 27, 2024
Messages
550
"I'm deliberately insulting people on the forum just because they are politely proposing their ideas that, since I want to show myself as a strong super-human, for some reasons disturb my weak psyche.

And they dared to ban me!"

Be proud of it, too.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2022
Messages
2,506
Location
Vareš
Anyone who needs "romance" in their ending slides is a retard and has something missing from their life.

"I'm deliberately insulting people on the forum just because they are politely proposing their ideas that, since I want to show myself as a strong super-human, for some reasons disturb my weak psyche.

And they dared to ban me!"

Be proud of it, too.
Who are you?
 

Litmanen

Educated
Joined
Feb 27, 2024
Messages
550
Anyone who needs "romance" in their ending slides is a retard and has something missing from their life.
You are the one missing things in life, here.
Who are you?
You can see my username. That's enough to express my ideas in this forum.

And since you came here complaining about the world that doesn't let you be an unpolite disturbed man, I replied.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom