Game News Combat In Oblivion: A Rebuttal to Penny Arcade

[Volourn]

"On the other hand, they will make more money, allowing them to hire more people etc. etc. so actually it could have more features and a higher budget than if it were for one platform"

Thanks for calling us stupid yet basically agreeing with us.

And, being called 'idiot' by you is one of the highest forms of compliment one can recieve as it usually means that I'm a genius compared to you. Afterall, you actually think that TOEE is one of the best CRPGs ever. Moron.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Nobody ever said mounted combat was impossible. It's just not feasible, given the focus of the game, which is foot combat. Mounted combat is feasible in a game like Mount & Blade because it's more of a squad-based thing with multiple opponents rather than a single character RPG adventure. Putting mounted combat into Oblivion would be as asinine as putting vehicular combat (e.g. bikes, cars, hummers) in a single-character non-controllable NPC Fallout game. The whole implementation would take up far too much time, requiring a tremendous amount of rebalancing (mounted opponents, anyone?) and require the implementation of casting magic while on a horse, or horse archery, and all sorts of other things. All in all, it would detract from the game as a whole, and as such, shouldn't be implemented.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

 

[Stark]

I'm probably missing something but it doesn't seem like such a big improvement over Morrowind.

there's the radient AI, which is pretty major.

then there's the revamped stealth system.

then there's the evesdropping of NPC conversation.

and the revised combat system.

the better physic system allow more creative interaction with environment. that too is something new in ES series.

Deeper in the dungeon we encountered a trap set by the goblins who were silly enough to be standing right below it. Creeping closer, the developer grabbed a piece of food from the goblins own campsite and throwing it at the trip wire, the trap is sprung on the goblins themselves.

granted, we don't know how each of these features would turn out turkey or good, but the list above is impressive enough for me.

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

To sum up, volly and hyperboy are stupid (same moral as in most threads), and I am annoyed(again see most threads).

Dialog trees really do limit what you can do. I mean, seriously, all you do is find people in the right order and talk to them. I think it really does degrade the gameplay a bit, though it does make it much easier obviously.

Maybe it's just me but I am not terribly thrilled by making the game have tons more attack options and making it even more videogamelike

 

[Fresh]

To sum up, volly and hyperboy are stupid (same moral as in most threads), and I am annoyed(again see most threads).

Dialog trees really do limit what you can do. I mean, seriously, all you do is find people in the right order and talk to them. I think it really does degrade the gameplay a bit, though it does make it much easier obviously.

Maybe it's just me but I am not terribly thrilled by making the game have tons more attack options and making it even more videogamelike

lol.

 

[bryce777]

More is not necessarily better. More STUPID features is more likely, since it will be geared towards console loving nitwits. Not to mention more eyecandy, of course.

Oblivion seems to have incredible graphics, but honestly I just dont give a fuck. If you could fly around like a fairy on a dragonfly that wouldn't save the game.

 

[Fresh]

More is not necessarily better. More STUPID features is more likely, since it will be geared towards console loving nitwits. Not to mention more eyecandy, of course.

Oblivion seems to have incredible graphics, but honestly I just dont give a fuck. If you could fly around like a fairy on a dragonfly that wouldn't save the game.

You really dont know what they say about those who like to call people stupid dont you?

 

[LlamaGod]

Exitium gives free rides for Oblivion, yey.

He's even doing his infamous Totally Retarded Comparisons As A Method of Defense.

 

[bryce777]

More is not necessarily better. More STUPID features is more likely, since it will be geared towards console loving nitwits. Not to mention more eyecandy, of course.

Oblivion seems to have incredible graphics, but honestly I just dont give a fuck. If you could fly around like a fairy on a dragonfly that wouldn't save the game.

You really dont know what they say about those who like to call people stupid dont you?

Yeah, but they are stupid, so who cares.

 

[Volourn]

They ar eonly following your exmaple fo stupidity since you mad eit clear that dialogue = stupid,a nd more options = even more stupid.

Hahaha.

Then again, you think TOEE is the best CRPG of all time, and that POR2 is right behind it in terms of quality so your stupidity is already proven.

Game over.

 

[bryce777]

They ar eonly following your exmaple fo stupidity since you mad eit clear that dialogue = stupid,a nd more options = even more stupid.

Hahaha.

Then again, you think TOEE is the best CRPG of all time, and that POR2 is right behind it in terms of quality so your stupidity is already proven.

Game over.

you are only showing yourself to be more stupid.

Obviously my use of language and abstract concepts defies your peabrain.

There can be dialog without a tree. Plenty of it, but if you are hand fed every option, then it becomes much like a choose your own adventure book.

Also, I have said only a million times I don't think toee is the best game of all time. It has the best combat ystem perhaps of all time, though. Wiz 6 is one of my very favorites, and it has plenty of dialog.

As for more choice, the incredible choice of pressing one of 3 keys to ttack does not particularly appeal to me.

 

[Volourn]

Bryce posted again? Yup, I can tell by the stupidity posted. Go figure.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Nobody ever said mounted combat was impossible. It's just not feasible, given the focus of the game, which is foot combat. Mounted combat is feasible in a game like Mount & Blade because it's more of a squad-based thing with multiple opponents rather than a single character RPG adventure.

The squad-based focus of M&B is actually pretty irrelevant. M&B does just as well against a small number of opponents (2 - 3) when you're on horseback. It's even better because you don't have to get off your horse to attack them. The arena in Zendar is a great testament to that. Even just a handful of combatants and horseback combat is great fun. Taking on horses while you're on foot is even more fun.

Putting mounted combat into Oblivion would be as asinine as putting vehicular combat (e.g. bikes, cars, hummers) in a single-character non-controllable NPC Fallout game.

Why? A more apt comparison would be having a driveable tank in a Fallout-type game that's bristling with guns only it can't fire any of them. People will look at it and go "Ummm...". Seriously, what's up with that?

The whole implementation would take up far too much time, requiring a tremendous amount of rebalancing (mounted opponents, anyone?) and require the implementation of casting magic while on a horse, or horse archery, and all sorts of other things. All in all, it would detract from the game as a whole, and as such, shouldn't be implemented.

Not. Going. To. Happen.

Seriously, it's like a sword. You swing it. What's it matter if you're on the back of a horse while you're doing it? If magic is such a technical issue you simply make it impossible to cast from horseback (make up some weak excuse like it taking too much concentration to cast while galloping or what-not) but really, all you need to do is play the hand movements. WHY IS IT SO GOD-DAMNED HARD? Hell, even Sacred has combat on horseback but with asociated penalties that make you get off if you really want to deal some damage (can't use some attackcombo's etc...). For the weaker enemies, it's great. You can stay on, deal with them and keep moving without having to dismount, attack, go back to the horse, mount and ride off again just for a freaking Goblin.

If they don't come up with some way to add in mounted combat before the game gets released, it's going to be something that gets raised a lot as an issue. The reviews are all going to be, "You have a horse but you um... can't actually use it for anything other than riding around which is nice but kind of dumb". Hell, even if there's the promise that it'll come in an expansion pack a bit later "Sorry guys, no mounted combat but in our first expansion pack, there will be! Pre-order it now!".

I'd really like to hear from Bethesda why being able to swing your weapon while on the back of a horse is just so god-damned hard for a bunch of guys who seem more than capable of churning out pretty graphics. At some point a decision had to have been made to deliberately NOT include it and it just seems like a *really*, hideously dumb decision.

 

[Fresh]

Maybe the animations depicting the PC fighting standing doesnt translate well to horseback-fighting? Ie horseback-action would require a bunch of extra animation?

That is, when you use the 3rd person view of course, or see NPCs.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Just so you know, we're not terribly happy about not getting mounted combat in, either. We wanted it, but it just wasn't going to happen in the time we had -- not and implement a feature so significant with the polish and robustness it deserves.

 

[Fresh]

Just so you know, we're not terribly happy about not getting mounted combat in, either. We wanted it, but it just wasn't going to happen in the time we had -- not and implement a feature so significant with the polish and robustness it deserves.

Would it be technically/practically possible to add mounted combat as a feature in the forthcoming Oblivion-expansions? With such a promise/hint everyone would calm down about this "issue".

 

[Spazmo]

We wanted it, but it just wasn't going to happen in the time we had -- not and implement a feature so significant with the polish and robustness it deserves.

What about dialog in Morrowind, then?

 

[Deacdo]

On the other hand, they will make more money, allowing them to hire more people etc. etc. so actually it could have more features and a higher budget than if it were for one platform, though it will probably suck in ome ways more for both platforms, and I personally will probably fall asleep if I try to play it..

What makes you think that EVER happens? Yeah, they need a higher budget...but then making a game on two platforms simultaneously is more expensive, even if they make the game less ambitious.

The point of simultaneous multiplatforming is to make more money *fast* and *lower* the risk of losing money, NOT to crank up the budget and *increase* the risk. Larger companies with more resources are better able to handle multiplatforming, but the general idea of multiplatforming is that you do it with what you have...which isn't much different than if you were making it on a single platform.

 

[Vykromond]

Bows are in. Crossbows are out. So a certain ranged or melee weapon is a feature?
jesus...

It's a bug, actually

 

[Vykromond]

If they don't come up with some way to add in mounted combat before the game gets released, it's going to be something that gets raised a lot as an issue. The reviews are all going to be, "You have a horse but you um... can't actually use it for anything other than riding around which is nice but kind of dumb".

I really doubt it. I didn't see any such complaint in the reviews of World of Warcraft, for instance.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Just so you know, we're not terribly happy about not getting mounted combat in, either. We wanted it, but it just wasn't going to happen in the time we had -- not and implement a feature so significant with the polish and robustness it deserves.

You kind use the same argument with having horses you can ride, though. Having to get off the horse, fight, then get back on to ride back to town doesn't seem polished at all.

 

[bryce777]

On the other hand, they will make more money, allowing them to hire more people etc. etc. so actually it could have more features and a higher budget than if it were for one platform, though it will probably suck in ome ways more for both platforms, and I personally will probably fall asleep if I try to play it..

What makes you think that EVER happens? Yeah, they need a higher budget...but then making a game on two platforms simultaneously is more expensive, even if they make the game less ambitious.

The point of simultaneous multiplatforming is to make more money *fast* and *lower* the risk of losing money, NOT to crank up the budget and *increase* the risk. Larger companies with more resources are better able to handle multiplatforming, but the general idea of multiplatforming is that you do it with what you have...which isn't much different than if you were making it on a single platform.

Everything comes down to money. When you have more money you can do much more, but as I said the chances of a game being MORE complex and being multiplatform are slim...it is unlikely it will be a genuinely better game except perhaps in the whizbang production values department.

If one of the platforms is console games, it is almost guaranteed to be dumbed down to the point of uselesness.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Just so you know, we're not terribly happy about not getting mounted combat in, either. We wanted it, but it just wasn't going to happen in the time we had -- not and implement a feature so significant with the polish and robustness it deserves.

You kind use the same argument with having horses you can ride, though. Having to get off the horse, fight, then get back on to ride back to town doesn't seem polished at all.

You could use that argument if you wanted. On the other hand, most of the time you'll be getting into combat situations in interiors -- dungeons, caves, dwellings, the plain of Oblivion -- which are places you can't take your horse anyway. And there are some exterior areas where horses aren't allowed either, like some cities and arenas. So while it would have been very nice to include mounted combat, the situations where you'd want it aren't a huge huge part of the game.

!HyPeRbOy! -- yes, that's certainly possible. Now that the foundations are in place -- horses and riding -- adding mounted combat can be done without starting from scratch. Dunno what plans there are for expansions or future games at this point, though, so I can't make any promises.

Spazmo -- touche', but this is Oblivion we're talking about, not Morrowind. The company's gone through a lot of changes -- from the time Morrowind was started until it was finished, and again from the time Morrowind shipped until now. It's a very, very different company, and the team has grown in both experience and size. Hopefully that'll all translate into a much better game in Oblivion.

 

[Fresh]

Now that the foundations are in place -- horses and riding -- adding mounted combat can be done without starting from scratch.

Sweet, thats what I wanted to hear.

 

[bryce777]

Smiley Face, in spite of past experiences ad general disappointment with the gaming industry lately, hearing you speak of the game makes me hopeful it might be good.