Decline Critical role ruined PnP

[processdaemon]

I also hate the roleification of TTRPGs but I think you can avoid some of it by choosing the right games. I have a very low (non-existent really) tolerance for any kind of sexual or emotionally intimate roleplaying and have been fortunate enough to never come across it in early edition D&D, Warhammer Fantasy and Runequest games. It also helps to play in a group where the mean age is 30s or above rather than a younger crowd; when everybody has families and/or day jobs most people just want to hit something with a stick or a fireball and have some laughs along the way rather than get caught up in teenage melodrama.

 

[Bara]

Behold the new system by critical role using two d12s


Sounds and seems like a really stripped down game with more narrative focused rules which makes sense considering they just want to tell stories for the show.

Also its god damn card based and you need to have the cards on hands for your class/ablities/and what have you.
Like damn is this the best they could come up with?

Who actually wants to futz about pulling out cards rather than just the stuff down once.
Especially as they billed it as a rule set for "long term play" your going to have to write down the name of what stuff your using.

Only way to rebuild your character sheet and place the cards again every time after packing up the game....

I don't see this becoming anymore more than a niche release if it gets noticed at all. Like Phoenix Dawn Command.

 

[Caim]

At that point you might as well pick up Fate Accelerated. The rules are free:

https://fate-srd.com/fate-accelerated

Sure you need a set of Fate dice (preferably one set per player), but you can improvise those with regular dice and a marker.

 

[TheCumGuzzler]

This guy's content has to be the most lazy, bait-filled, braindead and clickbait shit I have ever watched, anyone can post a fake ass story on reddit.

I respect him for getting that cash money from the retards who spend 15 minutes listening to his monotone voice, well done.

 

[Rahdulan]

Behold the new system by critical role using two d12s


Sounds and seems like a really stripped down game with more narrative focused rules which makes sense considering they just want to tell stories for the show.

Also its god damn card based and you need to have the cards on hands for your class/ablities/and what have you.
Like damn is this the best they could come up with?

Who actually wants to futz about pulling out cards rather than just the stuff down once.
Especially as they billed it as a rule set for "long term play" your going to have to write down the name of what stuff your using.

Only way to rebuild your character sheet and place the cards again every time after packing up the game....

I don't see this becoming anymore more than a niche release if it gets noticed at all. Like Phoenix Dawn Command.

I've always found it fascinating how quick people are to dismiss the crunch side to get the story out when in my mind roleplaying was always a perfect fusion of mechanics and narrative. Seems to happen even though they insist on playing something like D&D when there are far lighter system alternatives out there.

 

[Stella Brando]

 

[Telemetry]

I've always found it fascinating how quick people are to dismiss the crunch side to get the story out when in my mind roleplaying was always a perfect fusion of mechanics and narrative. Seems to happen even though they insist on playing something like D&D when there are far lighter system alternatives out there.

Was thinking about this lately.
Look at b/x, poster child of less is more.
But it has all these specific rules for various hear noise, surprise, lost chance and what have you. As much if not more than 5e (granted, most of them done by the gm). It almost makes no sense, why is this so "tedious"? But then you add the final bit of "tedium": time tracking and, all of a sudden, everything falls into place.
That ""tedium"" is what gives meaning behind every PC decision, which in turn promotes engagement, which makes the gm care more and round and round.

B/x

Could that be done 5e? Maybe, but because of bounded accuracy and the focus on balance it would take ages, so why bother.
Look even Mercer who gets paid to use 5e just stripped it all out, left 2 dice in and made it a card game. Fuck it

 

[Zombra]

I've always found it fascinating how quick people are to dismiss the crunch side to get the story out when in my mind roleplaying was always a perfect fusion of mechanics and narrative. Seems to happen even though they insist on playing something like D&D when there are far lighter system alternatives out there.

Kinda depends on what system you mean when you say "roleplaying". For me and everyone I knew D&D was too mechanics heavy growing up - there were fudged dice rolls in every game I was aware of. On the other hand some lighter systems don't put enough pressure on things to guide the story in unexpected ways and just become "let's make everything up" which is fine for some groups but again not for me. There's a definite

equilibrium to be reached between mechanics and narrative control which honestly I think is different for every player.

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[VerSacrum]

This completely went past me, except for a tabletop miniature of a sorceress that says Critical Role on it

Seems like the zoomer version of 2002's "The Gamers"?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

View attachment 40720

You find the damnedest things, Fritz.

 

[RainWorld]

Also its god damn card based and you need to have the cards on hands for your class/ablities/and what have you.
Like damn is this the best they could come up with?

I can just smell that card money that comes in.

Get ready for the booster packs.

 

[beardalaxy]

The Critical Role Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

 

[orcinator]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

 

[NwNgger]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

YOU ARE DESIGNING A GAME NOT WRITING A STORY! YOU DESIGN ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN ENEMIES FOR THOSE ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN INTERESTING NPCs AND WORLDS FOR THE CHARACTERS TO INHABIT! YOU ARE DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS THEN PLAYED AND REQUIRES PLAYER PARTICIPATION TO PROGRESS!

You are not writing a story. A predetermined series of events in a linear fashion. You are making A FUCKING GAME THAT OTHER PEOPLE PLAY! I fucking hate these ghoulish twats so much.

 

[Tyranicon]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

YOU ARE DESIGNING A GAME NOT WRITING A STORY! YOU DESIGN ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN ENEMIES FOR THOSE ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN INTERESTING NPCs AND WORLDS FOR THE CHARACTERS TO INHABIT! YOU ARE DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS THEN PLAYED AND REQUIRES PLAYER PARTICIPATION TO PROGRESS!

You are not writing a story. A predetermined series of events in a linear fashion. You are making A FUCKING GAME THAT OTHER PEOPLE PLAY! I fucking hate these ghoulish twats so much.

Welcome to nu-dnd, where every DM is some aspiring creative or media influencer, who wants a career on Patreon for whatever weird shit they're into.

I mean, let's not kid ourselves, this has always been an issue for DMs. That's kind of the trade. They do all the muscle work for the game, and you indulge them in whatever quirky story they cooked up.

That's why finding a good DM is important.

 

[Tweed]

The real problem is a DM who won't adapt to the player's choices and continues to railroad them down whatever insipid garbage they've shat out.

 

[beardalaxy]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

YOU ARE DESIGNING A GAME NOT WRITING A STORY! YOU DESIGN ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN ENEMIES FOR THOSE ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN INTERESTING NPCs AND WORLDS FOR THE CHARACTERS TO INHABIT! YOU ARE DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS THEN PLAYED AND REQUIRES PLAYER PARTICIPATION TO PROGRESS!

You are not writing a story. A predetermined series of events in a linear fashion. You are making A FUCKING GAME THAT OTHER PEOPLE PLAY! I fucking hate these ghoulish twats so much.

It's sad that all of my friends got super into CR and don't really enjoy the games I run anymore. They don't like playing the game nearly as much as they like being enveloped in some grand story. I definitely have an overarching story but most of my games are a lot more sandboxed, where there are pre-established objectives to accomplish but they're all about as important as anything else in the grand scheme of going to beat the big bad. I like the world to feel pretty natural and grounded and I think that turns people off. Everyone now plays in a different guy's campaign who is a lot more along the lines of something like CR.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people might want to play a game that's more like that, but I have to admit it's upsetting that no one wants to play with me because I don't have some insane story set up for them that's going to be just like they've seen in D&D media. I've had a lot of new players who watched CR or something similar join in on a couple campaigns I tried to get going, but it was only a few months before they all farmed out because they didn't actually like playing D&D. The truth is probably that they just didn't like my style of game, and would have preferred something with a lot more drama and pizzazz.

I like a slow burn adventure through a world that reacts to what the players do in a natural way. It seems like a lot of players want a Marvel movie style of adventure where they are truly the main characters and are treated as such at all times, where they story affects them more than they affect the story and most of it was planned from the beginning. That's also part of why 5E has some nasty power creep when it comes to PCs and you have to buff your monsters' HP by like 2x or 3x and give them more resistances/immunities if you want them to be able to do anything at all.

 

[NecroLord]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

YOU ARE DESIGNING A GAME NOT WRITING A STORY! YOU DESIGN ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN ENEMIES FOR THOSE ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN INTERESTING NPCs AND WORLDS FOR THE CHARACTERS TO INHABIT! YOU ARE DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS THEN PLAYED AND REQUIRES PLAYER PARTICIPATION TO PROGRESS!

You are not writing a story. A predetermined series of events in a linear fashion. You are making A FUCKING GAME THAT OTHER PEOPLE PLAY! I fucking hate these ghoulish twats so much.

It's sad that all of my friends got super into CR and don't really enjoy the games I run anymore. They don't like playing the game nearly as much as they like being enveloped in some grand story. I definitely have an overarching story but most of my games are a lot more sandboxed, where there are pre-established objectives to accomplish but they're all about as important as anything else in the grand scheme of going to beat the big bad. I like the world to feel pretty natural and grounded and I think that turns people off. Everyone now plays in a different guy's campaign who is a lot more along the lines of something like CR.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people might want to play a game that's more like that, but I have to admit it's upsetting that no one wants to play with me because I don't have some insane story set up for them that's going to be just like they've seen in D&D media. I've had a lot of new players who watched CR or something similar join in on a couple campaigns I tried to get going, but it was only a few months before they all farmed out because they didn't actually like playing D&D. The truth is probably that they just didn't like my style of game, and would have preferred something with a lot more drama and pizzazz.

I like a slow burn adventure through a world that reacts to what the players do in a natural way. It seems like a lot of players want a Marvel movie style of adventure where they are truly the main characters and are treated as such at all times, where they story affects them more than they affect the story and most of it was planned from the beginning. That's also part of why 5E has some nasty power creep when it comes to PCs and you have to buff your monsters' HP by like 2x or 3x and give them more resistances/immunities if you want them to be able to do anything at all.

Most of the CR fans aren't in it just because they like the game or D&D.
They like the celebs playing it and want to emulate such an experience at their sessions.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

YOU ARE DESIGNING A GAME NOT WRITING A STORY! YOU DESIGN ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN ENEMIES FOR THOSE ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN INTERESTING NPCs AND WORLDS FOR THE CHARACTERS TO INHABIT! YOU ARE DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS THEN PLAYED AND REQUIRES PLAYER PARTICIPATION TO PROGRESS!

You are not writing a story. A predetermined series of events in a linear fashion. You are making A FUCKING GAME THAT OTHER PEOPLE PLAY! I fucking hate these ghoulish twats so much.

It's sad that all of my friends got super into CR and don't really enjoy the games I run anymore. They don't like playing the game nearly as much as they like being enveloped in some grand story. I definitely have an overarching story but most of my games are a lot more sandboxed, where there are pre-established objectives to accomplish but they're all about as important as anything else in the grand scheme of going to beat the big bad. I like the world to feel pretty natural and grounded and I think that turns people off. Everyone now plays in a different guy's campaign who is a lot more along the lines of something like CR.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people might want to play a game that's more like that, but I have to admit it's upsetting that no one wants to play with me because I don't have some insane story set up for them that's going to be just like they've seen in D&D media. I've had a lot of new players who watched CR or something similar join in on a couple campaigns I tried to get going, but it was only a few months before they all farmed out because they didn't actually like playing D&D. The truth is probably that they just didn't like my style of game, and would have preferred something with a lot more drama and pizzazz.

I like a slow burn adventure through a world that reacts to what the players do in a natural way. It seems like a lot of players want a Marvel movie style of adventure where they are truly the main characters and are treated as such at all times, where they story affects them more than they affect the story and most of it was planned from the beginning. That's also part of why 5E has some nasty power creep when it comes to PCs and you have to buff your monsters' HP by like 2x or 3x and give them more resistances/immunities if you want them to be able to do anything at all.

Hombre if you got the patience for a play by post I'll play your game

 

[udm]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

YOU ARE DESIGNING A GAME NOT WRITING A STORY! YOU DESIGN ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN ENEMIES FOR THOSE ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN INTERESTING NPCs AND WORLDS FOR THE CHARACTERS TO INHABIT! YOU ARE DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS THEN PLAYED AND REQUIRES PLAYER PARTICIPATION TO PROGRESS!

You are not writing a story. A predetermined series of events in a linear fashion. You are making A FUCKING GAME THAT OTHER PEOPLE PLAY! I fucking hate these ghoulish twats so much.

It's sad that all of my friends got super into CR and don't really enjoy the games I run anymore. They don't like playing the game nearly as much as they like being enveloped in some grand story. I definitely have an overarching story but most of my games are a lot more sandboxed, where there are pre-established objectives to accomplish but they're all about as important as anything else in the grand scheme of going to beat the big bad. I like the world to feel pretty natural and grounded and I think that turns people off. Everyone now plays in a different guy's campaign who is a lot more along the lines of something like CR.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people might want to play a game that's more like that, but I have to admit it's upsetting that no one wants to play with me because I don't have some insane story set up for them that's going to be just like they've seen in D&D media. I've had a lot of new players who watched CR or something similar join in on a couple campaigns I tried to get going, but it was only a few months before they all farmed out because they didn't actually like playing D&D. The truth is probably that they just didn't like my style of game, and would have preferred something with a lot more drama and pizzazz.

I like a slow burn adventure through a world that reacts to what the players do in a natural way. It seems like a lot of players want a Marvel movie style of adventure where they are truly the main characters and are treated as such at all times, where they story affects them more than they affect the story and most of it was planned from the beginning. That's also part of why 5E has some nasty power creep when it comes to PCs and you have to buff your monsters' HP by like 2x or 3x and give them more resistances/immunities if you want them to be able to do anything at all.

Hombre if you got the patience for a play by post I'll play your game

Yeah I can get behind a PbP game too.

 

[beardalaxy]

Hombre if you got the patience for a play by post I'll play your game

Yeah I can get behind a PbP game too.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the sentiment/interest. I've never tried a PbP game because I lean heavily towards IRL interactions with people just in general. I honestly don't even know how PbP games work, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't find myself being interested in the idea every now and then. Now that I know that there is at least some interest, maybe I'll consider it more seriously and check out some videos on tips for it or whatever. It's not something I would want to force just so I could play D&D, and I don't know how much I could commit to it at this point, though I'll keep it in mind.

 

[NwNgger]

Watching broteam play Volcano High (around 1h50m mark) and when talking about the notDnD the dinos play the DM dinosaur talks about writing a character arc for the MC's character.
Raptor Jesus Christ How Horrifying

YOU ARE DESIGNING A GAME NOT WRITING A STORY! YOU DESIGN ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN ENEMIES FOR THOSE ENCOUNTERS! YOU DESIGN INTERESTING NPCs AND WORLDS FOR THE CHARACTERS TO INHABIT! YOU ARE DESIGNING SOMETHING THAT IS THEN PLAYED AND REQUIRES PLAYER PARTICIPATION TO PROGRESS!

You are not writing a story. A predetermined series of events in a linear fashion. You are making A FUCKING GAME THAT OTHER PEOPLE PLAY! I fucking hate these ghoulish twats so much.

It's sad that all of my friends got super into CR and don't really enjoy the games I run anymore. They don't like playing the game nearly as much as they like being enveloped in some grand story. I definitely have an overarching story but most of my games are a lot more sandboxed, where there are pre-established objectives to accomplish but they're all about as important as anything else in the grand scheme of going to beat the big bad. I like the world to feel pretty natural and grounded and I think that turns people off. Everyone now plays in a different guy's campaign who is a lot more along the lines of something like CR.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that people might want to play a game that's more like that, but I have to admit it's upsetting that no one wants to play with me because I don't have some insane story set up for them that's going to be just like they've seen in D&D media. I've had a lot of new players who watched CR or something similar join in on a couple campaigns I tried to get going, but it was only a few months before they all farmed out because they didn't actually like playing D&D. The truth is probably that they just didn't like my style of game, and would have preferred something with a lot more drama and pizzazz.

I like a slow burn adventure through a world that reacts to what the players do in a natural way. It seems like a lot of players want a Marvel movie style of adventure where they are truly the main characters and are treated as such at all times, where they story affects them more than they affect the story and most of it was planned from the beginning. That's also part of why 5E has some nasty power creep when it comes to PCs and you have to buff your monsters' HP by like 2x or 3x and give them more resistances/immunities if you want them to be able to do anything at all.

Okay I've actually been in your exact position of wanting to run sandbox games whilst everyone wants to be dragged through heckin valid le epic stories. The trick is in presentation. If you want players you have to stop autistically describing exactly what you're wanting to run.

Wrong: So you guys want to play a sandbox campaign in Savage Worlds (because DnD fucking sucks) where you hexcrawl from area to area in an open world and make your own story?

Right: I got this new kind of game I would like to run. It's very different to what you're used to. If you like Critical Role you'll be surprised at what this is.

You have to understand that even without Critical Role shitters, the majority of RPG players are not familiar with sandbox games. And find them intimidating. ("I have to make my own decisions? What if I make the wrong one and ruin the game?) Whilst you can always say "Well I just won't have those people at my table." I feel it's better to introduce them to the concept slowly. There are way more of them then there will ever be of you. Make it sound mysterious and cool. Something new without sounding hostile. They will be intriguied without being intimidated.

The best advice I can give to anyone running a sandbox campaign with new players is to actually not start it as a sandbox. Start in a small area with a tight narrative. A single street of the city, a small village, that kind of thing. Give them a clear cut object that establishes the world. Apprehend a dangerous wizard, find the missing jewels, etc. Funnel them down the first couple of leads in this small and controlled environment where their choices are limited and they still believe you're dragging them through a heckin epic story. The entire time you're still asking them what they want to do. And making sure whatever they pick gets them through what you've made. Then start gradually opening things up as the plot thickens. The wizard was working for a shady guild of demon worshipers, the jewels belong to a notable merchant. Where do you go next? Intriguing choices are made and resolved. Then you open things up a lot more suddenly they have three different objectives, one in a nearby cave, another in a lord's manor, and one more in a different neighbourhood. By the time they've completed a couple objectives, they start to really make decisions for themselves. By about the tenth session you've resolved the plot thread you started in the first session in such a way that you open things up even more with a map and several plot threads to pursue. It's the party's choice on what to do. They're now playing a sandbox campaign with the confidence to make decisions.

 

[Alex]

(...)
Wrong: So you guys want to play a sandbox campaign in Savage Worlds (because DnD fucking sucks) where you hexcrawl from area to area in an open world and make your own story?
(...)

You have D&D and Savage Worlds mixed up.

 

[NwNgger]

(...)
Wrong: So you guys want to play a sandbox campaign in Savage Worlds (because DnD fucking sucks) where you hexcrawl from area to area in an open world and make your own story?
(...)

You have D&D and Savage Worlds mixed up.

How? You can easily do hexcrawl sandboxes with Savage World. I'm using Savage World Pathfinder to do a Keep on the Borderlands campaign. And it's very simple to convert any DnD specific statistics. And if you're doing something completely original it's not hard to make hexcrawl stats for SW.