Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[JamesDixon]

The fanbase is pretty much in Rebellion inside the CKIII Pdox forum. I haven't seen this much a Fanbase Revolt in Paradokkkkz Plaza since the entire Stellaris fanbase multined over the massive garbage performance. Which has given good results and led what is probably the best thing that happened to that game, the Custodian Initiative.

An interesting thread reply:

You're not wrong that something feels hollow. Though I can't quite place my finger on what. Going public is, however, always a bad thing for the consumer/customers of whoever went public. It ends badly sooner or later. Often slowly one bit at a time.

I wouldn't fully agree with that CK3 devs don't communicate, they have. And they did make changes based on community feedback back during before CK3 was released. One notable change was the Feudal Contracts got expanded from the original version. I will say there has been a lot less communication since then, and that the general mood of the community right now is one of discontent. Due to lack of bug fixes (mostly caused by flavour packs seemingly), lack of changes to mechanics that direly need them and generally the unaddressed shallowness of CK3 that has only been touched with surface level polish that the Flavour packs have done.

There is also the elephant in the room of the speed of development that many take issue with. I will not comment much on it, but it has felt a bit on the slow side. I was personally not a fan of making such comparisons in the first year but it has dragged on so let us see what CK2 had in the same period of time.
2020-09-01 CK3 Release
2021-03-16 Northern Lords - Small Flavour Pack
2022-02-08 Royal Court - Expansion
2022-05-31 Fate of Iberia - Flavour Pack
Today: 716 days

2012-02-14 CK2 Release
2012-06-26 Sword of Islam - Expansion
2012-10-16 Legacy of Rome - Expansion
2012-11-15 Sunset Invasion -Immersion Pack
2013-01-15 The Republic - Expansion
2013-05-28 The Old Gods - Expansion
2013-11-18 Sons of Abraham - Expansion
Same time: 2014-01-30 (716 days)

We got 1 expansion, 1 tiny flavour pack that was overpriced and is now very over priced and another flavour pack.
In CK2 we got 5 expansions and 1 immersion pack.
Expansions back then did add less that much is true, but PDX is bigger now too. And asking for more money as well.
Even if we say Royal Court is worth 2 or 3 expansions it's still short. Especially since in that time we got The Republic which gave us a new government type to play as. Royal Court had some great additions that do effect the whole map but NL isn't worth it and FoI seems to have a struggle mechanic that is only valid for Iberia. So it just effect that part of the world.

We could really use more new mechanics and after over 2 years it is starting to feel like things are a bit slow to come out and covids hardly an excuse as everyone has generally learned how to work in such an environment.

So... it has been over two years and CKIII has not only released fewer expansions and DLC than CKII, it has also released less and inferior content.

The reason CKIII feels like a hollow game that is taking forever to get new features... is because it IS a hollow game taking forever to get new features.

The difference is that the CK2 development team were not whiny zoomer babies that can't take criticism and actually worked. I remember when the CK3 team went on vacation. When they came back they congratulated themselves for it while claiming they worked hard. They didn't do shit for a full year except piss off their customers and ban those that were vocal about their practices.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Wow I remember Arumba. That guy loved their games and did so much cool exploitey shit with them.
Wait they disavowed him for that kind of shit? That's total meme.

It had been some time, apparently he called some guy a faggot in his chat for being an annoying retard, i mixed the stories up (but it is true that you'll eat a ban on their forums for writing "remove kebab" or similar) but according to Arumba that wasn't the reason. Supposedly they ghosted him for making a video critiquing some mechanics after a major patch, citing "Uncivil behavior", ergo no more invites to Paradox con.



Personally, I think they were just looking for an excuse to get rid of him or he's omitting parts of the email relating to violating the leftard blasphemy laws. Arumba was always a bit of an edgyboi and probably spooked the Paracucks. Typical "pattern of behavior" excuse too.

 

[Hace El Oso]

Honestly, I haven't looked at CKIII's modding much, but considering some of the things it has over CKII, plus the fact its probably the best optimized optimized Paradox game in like, ever, I suspect CKIII is actually a very good base.

This just isn’t the case, and it’s easily demonstrated by the fact that zero of the HIP and CK2+ people have moved, or are interested in moving, to CK3. The guy who made the ‘Somewhat More Historical’ map module for CK2 HIP was initially working on a CK3 version of it and has now dropped it due to lack of interest in CK3.

I can’t remember many of the specific details of why they were so turned off of CK3 in terms of code, but I do remember that a great many things that could be easily modded before no longer can be in CK3, like men-at-arms and cultural units.

 

[Alienman]

Probably serious management issues. Considering their failures with stuff invested outside of Paradox.

 

[None]

CK3 devs are on record saying they barely pay attention to the forums nowadays because of the responses they get and have shifted almost entirely to their Discord. I recall a community manager or something saying they brought it up to the team and dev activity seems better, but at the start of this year you could go a dozen pages deep into the forum and not see a single post from a developer (excluding moderators, community managers, etc). They've retreated into their echo chamber and adopted what is essentially a masturbatory development practice, don't be surprised if you get more of the same.

 

[gerey]

The only thing I can think of is that the guy running their dev team is an incompetent who has no idea where to take the game forwards.

I'd argue that it is they have grown complacent. They have no actual competition, so regardless of how much they fuck up, all the addicts needing their fix will eventually come crawling back.

I can’t remember many of the specific details of why they were so turned off of CK3 in terms of code, but I do remember that a great many things that could be easily modded before no longer can be in CK3, like men-at-arms and cultural units.

It's strange, because I remember seeing someone actually implementing a Darkest Dungeon into CK3. My guess is that the POX developers saw mods as a threat to their bottom line and decided to limit what modders could work on - since cultural unit DLCs are the bread and butter of POX kikery.

 

[Average Manatee]

My guess is that they way over-hired on artists to do all of the 3D character modelling for CK3 and now that the game is released and they are making DLC they have next to no real programmers to implement serious game mechanic changes. Hence why they released the throne room DLC where 90% of the dev time went into modelling all of that shit down to the specific items displayed in it.

Arumba was always a bit of an edgyboi and probably spooked the Paracucks. Typical "pattern of behavior" excuse too.

Arumba is like a 2/10 on the scale of edginess for Paradox games. I think I buy more the fact that they felt he was getting too big of an audience and was pointing out major bugs that were never fixed. Sort of a "getting too big for his britches" attitude where they felt he was trying to force them to prioritize fixing what he wanted because he made youtube videos with lots of viewers.

HOI4 has been most played of their games since 2018, but for some reason, as you say feels like it has had a skeleton crew/interns working on it, glacial pacing for DLC. Utterly bizarre strategy by Paradox for what they focus on. Feels very corporate style, shovel all money into new products and milk the actually successful ones while giving them minimum viable support.

HoI4 long term is mostly about mods and multiplayer since there's only so many times you can play singleplayer WW2 against terribad AI that suicides its army in the first 3 months, and you don't really need DLC for these things (especially the early DLC, new DLC locks out more major mechanics mods like to use like the customizable ships/tanks/planes). So I'd expect the DLC purchase rate to be on the low side. On the other hand I bet Stellaris has a huge DLC purchase rate, since each one has huge new empire options and stuff. CK2/3 DLCs were often in the middle where you only cared about them if you specifically wanted to play the region in question and did nothing outside it.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[Alienman]

Wasn't that the problem, no dlcs?

 

[Axioms]

The reason CK2 was faster on content was that the game was much simpler implementation wise. Whereas CK3 is much more complicated, with a more expansive 3D model system, fancier UI, and other stuff. Plus I agree that the new Paradox staff is lazier. Which is fine and I don't really care since the direction of the game is really the main problem, but it doesn't help.

 

[thesecret1]

Whereas CK3 is much more complicated, with a more expansive 3D model system, fancier UI, and other stuff.

Neither UI nor 3D models would hinder development of more content. You are never waiting for UI artists and graphics when developing a video game, it's the code that's always the bottleneck.

 

[Axioms]

Whereas CK3 is much more complicated, with a more expansive 3D model system, fancier UI, and other stuff.

Neither UI nor 3D models would hinder development of more content. You are never waiting for UI artists and graphics when developing a video game, it's the code that's always the bottleneck.

Depends on the project.

 

[Space Satan]

ABOUT THIS CONTENT​

Beware, ruler - tread carefully with those you call friend or enemy; they are two sides of the same coin. Your relationships matter more than ever, and with Crusader Kings III: Friends & Foes, witness those closest to you come alive in the most intimate detail.

Over one hundred unique new experiences of medieval larger-than-life drama wait to be discovered in the new event pack. From rival noble houses holding lifelong grudges to childhood bullies, summer crushes, and spoiling spouses with lavish gifts. Your ruler’s everyday existence has never been more fraught - or more exciting - than with Crusader Kings III: Friends & Foes.

False Friends and Open Enemies​

Family, friends, and those out for your blood are fully brought to life in this rich and stirring event pack.

• Your ruler’s day-to-day is filled with a myriad of new events. Experience over one hundred player-driven stories involving childhood, memories, nemeses, wrangling unruly sons, or wooing your significant other with sumptuous attention.
• With a little help from your friends, uncover novel ways to become pals with those you hold dear or even achieve the coveted best friend status.
• Be prepared for ever more dangerous rivals, sharpening their vengeful knives to get back at you. Or pre-empt your nemesis with devious new options… if you dare.

Memories, Those Sweet Memories!​

Know thy past to understand the present.

• Your characters will reminisce about their personal history with those closest to them, be it a romantic getaway or the painful humiliation that is the seed of a well-nurtured murder plot.
• Childhood is a place where happy memories rest… or not. Experience a character’s youth in full, from brutish bullies to wistful teenage love.
• Past deeds will not be forgotten. Be watchful of the wrath of rival noble houses, plotting to right a perceived wrong, even after many generations.

The Crusader Kings III: Friends & Foes event pack sets the mood with several new music pieces to accompany your ruler’s conspiring and scheming. New soundtracks are general, Western European, and Arabian-themed tunes.

And remember, your majesty: keep your friends close and your enemies even closer

 

[HeroMarine]

Medieval soap opera simulator

 

[JamesDixon]

Oh look Dawson's Creek add on that will cost you $400. Who at Pdox thought that this would be a good add on?

 

[Axioms]

Man every CK3 update makes me so happy. Because they are all lazy scripted trash.

Axioms provides superior versions of all these experiences with a flexible, and actually player driven rather than random event driven, mechanics based social simulation. More detail, stronger impact on later game state, and more flavor.

I await the CK3 version of my Commitment system. Probably be as shit as their version of my Secrets system.

 

[Alienman]

Don't seem so bad to me, Crusader Kings is the medieval Sims.

 

[Harthwain]

I was going to say something, but you know what, I think the following posts in Pdox Plaza say everything I would need to say:

I have to admit the image of an elderly and fully-garbed orthodox priest sprinting through an encampment carrying a cat is pretty funny

The man has a point.

 

[thesecret1]

Holy shit that whole description is cancer... More personal events (including childhood ones!) that were pretty shitty even back in CK2, where they were mostly just an excuse to give you some traits, but this time with reddit humour on top, and what'll probably boil down to a modifier or two passed down the generations for giving another dynasty's great-grandfather a wedgie, or whatever dumb shit they'll come up with. Most of CK2's DLCs focused on the actual game, making different religions play differently, addimg mechanics for different types of government, etc. In CK3, it's just some kind of masturbatory shit aimed at players who spend their playthrough seducing the pope as a gay nigger, and shit like that. What a decline.

 

[mondblut]

Man every CK3 update makes me so happy. Because they are all lazy scripted trash.

Axioms provides superior versions of all these experiences with a flexible, and actually player driven rather than random event driven, mechanics based social simulation. More detail, stronger impact on later game state, and more flavor.

I await the CK3 version of my Commitment system. Probably be as shit as their version of my Secrets system.

Too bad that out of the two, CK3 is the one that exists.

 

[Axioms]

Man every CK3 update makes me so happy. Because they are all lazy scripted trash.

Axioms provides superior versions of all these experiences with a flexible, and actually player driven rather than random event driven, mechanics based social simulation. More detail, stronger impact on later game state, and more flavor.

I await the CK3 version of my Commitment system. Probably be as shit as their version of my Secrets system.

Too bad that out of the two, CK3 is the one that exists.

Yes for other people that is unfortunate but it is fortunate for me because if CK3 wasn't shit my market would be much more limited.

 

[Axioms]

Don't seem so bad to me, Crusader Kings is the medieval Sims.

The " bad" part is that their mechanics are incredibly rigid and limited and based on repetitive dice role events. Instead of having a fully fleshed out flexible system of character actions.

 

[jackofshadows]

Medieval soap opera simulator

Uhh, always has been.meme?

 

[taxalot]

So. CK2 is the better game now ?

 

[HeroMarine]

So. CK2 is the better game now ?

Welcome to whenever this shit was first launched.