Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[vonAchdorf]

I assumed it looks the way it does because it's so early in development, and yet... here we are.

13 whole developers on the highest-earning (by far) game, in a studio that employs over 350. What do those other employees do? The majority of Paradox's employees are in Publishing, where wages are across the board an order of magnitude higher and work consists mainly of sitting in on meetings (where they decide on how to squeeze the lowest-paid devs even harder, evidently).

I don't really believe that, even Feargus could trick their "magnitude higher" paid publishing team and the ones who got squeezed were Paradox, not Obsidian.

 

[Chaosdwarft]

What in the name of the Great Unclean one, this is the result of THREE YEARS of development? Ils se foutent vraiment de notre gueule!

That's it I will just wait for the free to play edition and discounted DLC bundle. Why should I switch from CK2 with full DLC?

With this development plus the fiasco that was Imperator: Rome; I have lost all faith, I prefer they never make Vic3.

 

[Hellion]

The Victoria series deals with European Imperialism and Colonialism at their absolute peak, woke nu-Paradox isn't touching these issues without diluting them to the point of oblivion. Vic3 will probably never be made, and that's probably for the best.

 

[mondblut]

In the #metoo era and during a time, when alleged sexual harassment is first reported on twitter and not to the police, I take any of the allegations with a grain of salt.

Absolutely, but it's always fun when it explodes in the face of wokescum. Reap what you sow, etc.

 

[Delterius]

• Religions are now dynamic with hundreds of doctrines and tenants. Create your own heresies.

tbh this would be p incline

 

[Mortmal]

• Religions are now dynamic with hundreds of doctrines and tenants. Create your own heresies.

tbh this would be p incline

If it's more than what's already included in holy fury yes...Might just be marketing stuff .

 

[fantadomat]

My only true gripe with this is that it means Victoria III isn't coming anytime soon.

You say it as if it is something bad. Do you honestly want the modern pink faggots at paradox to make a Victoria 3??? You must be quite the masochist.

 

[vonAchdorf]

If it's more than what's already included in holy fury yes...Might just be marketing stuff .

He said this:

Have it work your way, but be challenged. It shouldn't be easy, to get your game world the way you like, but it's possible. For example religions are now completely dynamic. They are made up of hundreds of doctrines and tenets, that can be pieced together whatever you like. And this is really what a heresy is. It's a divergent faith. You can create these heresies yourself and that's the way you create sort of your own game rules to play with for the rest of your game.

(And it's of course tenets, not tenants.)

 

[Makabb]

How a dynamic religion would work ?

 

[fantadomat]

How a dynamic religion would work ?

As we already know,it wont.

 

[thesecret1]

tbh this would be p incline

They'll just lift the faith reformation mechanic from CK2. Swap one ideal - boom, new faith with zero flavour. No, thanks.

 

[thesecret1]

How a dynamic religion would work ?

I think the idea is that a religion is made of a lot of moving parts and these parts often end up differently depending on how things go. There are things like Councils, and law changes and such.

I think the idea is to expand upon the dynamic pagan religions of Holy Fury, but for every religion.

So, for example, let's take Chalcedonian Catholicism AKA pre-schism Catholicism. Before the 11th century, its the same church, even if in practice the Pope is becoming more and more independent and powerful since the 8th century.

So, in a 8th or 9th century start, there would be no Catholic/Orthodox split, its the same religion. There is no one dominant religious leader, but rather multiple powerful religious leaders, such as the Patriarchs of Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria, and the Bishop of Rome (AKA Popeman). In theory, what exists in the Pentarchy. In practice, the Patriarchs of Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria are not as important due to the muslim conquest, so its pretty much Constantinople and Rome and some other minor sees.

So, Pope decides he wants to go his own way, he does so. Eventually, decision time comes and the Pope chooses to schism and the mutual declarations of heresy fly. Bam! Now we have two Churches.

But what if the Pope decided that maybe, just maybe, staying together is the way to go? Possibly the 20k man Roman army on his doorstep is very persuasive and Charlemagne died fighting muslims. Schism averted!

Let's be real here, it'll be a decision you can take if you have enough mana points and all it'll do is give you a "new" religion whose only difference from the old one is that you can now have multiple wives and maybe get a small modifier to piety or something. It'll be the same decision for every religion in the game, MAYBE with a couple words swapped around between religion groups, and there will be no flavour or futher events connected to it.

 

[whydoibother]

My only true gripe with this is that it means Victoria III isn't coming anytime soon.

You say it as if it is something bad. Do you honestly want the modern pink faggots at paradox to make a Victoria 3??? You must be quite the masochist.

If its made, there's a greater than zero chance of it being good. If its not made, there's a zero chance of it being good, since there'd be no "it".
So you are betting against your best interest by hoping it doesn't get made. Gamers wishing games don't get made are retarded. Not like if they make it and its bad, it will retroactively make Vicky 2 bad too.

 

[IDtenT]

Weak men need their franchises not to decline, whilst real men know that declining franchises make strong men.

 

[G.O.D]

My only true gripe with this is that it means Victoria III isn't coming anytime soon.

You say it as if it is something bad. Do you honestly want the modern pink faggots at paradox to make a Victoria 3??? You must be quite the masochist.

If its made, there's a greater than zero chance of it being good. If its not made, there's a zero chance of it being good, since there'd be no "it".
So you are betting against your best interest by hoping it doesn't get made. Gamers wishing games don't get made are retarded. Not like if they make it and its bad, it will retroactively make Vicky 2 bad too.

Your logic is what is retarded here. It's almost as if you're arguing for creating for the sake of creation.

When the signs of decline are obvious, it's pointless to keep giving devs the benefit of the doubt when creating a new iteration of a franchise. Especially if said dev has a bad track record already, and said franchise is beloved by many. We have seen many, many examples of this in the past.

 

[whydoibother]

Spoiler

My only true gripe with this is that it means Victoria III isn't coming anytime soon.

You say it as if it is something bad. Do you honestly want the modern pink faggots at paradox to make a Victoria 3??? You must be quite the masochist.

If its made, there's a greater than zero chance of it being good. If its not made, there's a zero chance of it being good, since there'd be no "it".
So you are betting against your best interest by hoping it doesn't get made. Gamers wishing games don't get made are retarded. Not like if they make it and its bad, it will retroactively make Vicky 2 bad too.

Your logic is what is retarded here. It's almost as if you're arguing for creating for the sake of creation.

When the signs of decline are obvious, it's pointless to keep giving devs the benefit of the doubt when creating a new iteration of a franchise. Especially if said dev has a bad track record already, and said franchise is beloved by many. We have seen many, many examples of this in the past.

Creation for the sake of money, since it will make money. Its creation is justified and will occur. What I am arguing for is that impotent cucks online who have zero power over the creation of Vicky 3 shouldn't mourn its death before even witnessing its birth. The chance its good may be low, but it is in fact above zero. There are universes in which V3 releases, and its good. It is physically possible. Don't be a retard, and don't celebrate and worship failure to trigger da libzzz xDDD. Wish for a good game. You want a good game, right? At least hope for it, rather than hoping for disaster with the rest of the outrage zombies here.

 

[G.O.D]

Though foolish, your optimism is commendable, I'll at least give you that. For a lot of people that ship already sailed.

Creation for the sake of money, since it will make money. Its creation is justified and will occur.

CKIII, Vicky3 or any other franchise for that matter making money doesn't benefit me or any other consumer at all as long as it's going to be a watered down version of it's predecessor.
In this case the result would be that the dev would be even more convinced in their believe that producing a mediocre, shallower iteration of a game, more accessible to a wider audience is preferable because it's good for business, rather than showing ambition to produce a better product and to innovate.

What I am arguing for is that impotent cucks online who have zero power over the creation of Vicky 3 shouldn't mourn its death before even witnessing its birth. The chance its good may be low, but it is in fact above zero. There are universes in which V3 releases, and its good. It is physically possible.

God forbid people being passionate about a franchise or hobby they love. Instead of being silent and bending the knee consumers should be vocal and let devs know with their wallet that they don't agree with a certain direction development is going. The consumer isn't impotent as long as people put their money where their mouths are, as shown by Paradox backpedaling.

What you're suggesting so far are abstract concepts like hope, belief, maybe this and maybe that, and cosmic influences. That's not how markets work.
People are pretty stocked up on these things here I think. Maybe try next door.

Don't be a retard, and don't celebrate and worship failure to trigger da libzzz xDDD. Wish for a good game. You want a good game, right? At least hope for it, rather than hoping for disaster with the rest of the outrage zombies here.

Again, the pot calling the kettle black. What I, and many other people wish for is Paradox, to choke on their politics and focus on producing games that their consumer base want. By making a good product it is likely they will expand their consumer base, and in the process make even more of their precious money they so badly crave. It isn't that complicated.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

How a dynamic religion would work ?

I think the idea is that a religion is made of a lot of moving parts and these parts often end up differently depending on how things go. There are things like Councils, and law changes and such.

I think the idea is to expand upon the dynamic pagan religions of Holy Fury, but for every religion.

So, for example, let's take Chalcedonian Catholicism AKA pre-schism Catholicism. Before the 11th century, its the same church, even if in practice the Pope is becoming more and more independent and powerful since the 8th century.

So, in a 8th or 9th century start, there would be no Catholic/Orthodox split, its the same religion. There is no one dominant religious leader, but rather multiple powerful religious leaders, such as the Patriarchs of Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria, and the Bishop of Rome (AKA Popeman). In theory, what exists in the Pentarchy. In practice, the Patriarchs of Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria are not as important due to the muslim conquest, so its pretty much Constantinople and Rome and some other minor sees.

So, Pope decides he wants to go his own way, he does so. Eventually, decision time comes and the Pope chooses to schism and the mutual declarations of heresy fly. Bam! Now we have two Churches.

But what if the Pope decided that maybe, just maybe, staying together is the way to go? Possibly the 20k man Roman army on his doorstep is very persuasive and Charlemagne died fighting muslims. Schism averted!

Let's be real here, it'll be a decision you can take if you have enough mana points and all it'll do is give you a "new" religion whose only difference from the old one is that you can now have multiple wives and maybe get a small modifier to piety or something. It'll be the same decision for every religion in the game, MAYBE with a couple words swapped around between religion groups, and there will be no flavour or futher events connected to it.

Possibly. I would rather wait and see.

Also faggotified mana-driven gameplay got strong backlash recently with the release of Imperator.

 

[Delterius]

i'm ok with fratticelli portugal with female advisors and apocalyptic outlook tbh

 

[LizardWizard]

The UI looking like Unity shovleware aside, these are encouraging:

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/crusader-kings-3-annnounced-release-window-first-details

Cadet branches, long requested by the Crusader Kings 2 community, are one of the most exciting new features. Every dynasty in the game will now exist as an unlanded title held by the head of the dynasty. However, distant relatives with enough prestige can form a cadet house with its own heraldry and words that gain some autonomy, while still being subservient to the parent dynasty. In a case where the "main" line of a dynasty ends, a cadet house can pick up where they left off.

Paradox has also really dialed up the role-playing elements. Borrowing from Crusader Kings 2's Way of Life DLC, characters will pick a lifestyle (warfare, religion, intrigue, etc), and within each are three talent trees that you can put points into over time to gain new traits and abilities. A religion-focused character can work toward becoming a Prophet, for example, which makes founding a new custom religion or heresy cheaper. Dynasties will also level up and gain powerful mechanical bonuses called Legacies, giving you something you can carry with you across generations. Finally, Prestige and Piety are no longer just resources that accumulate. They will also fill up what is basically an experience bar, letting your characters "level up" their Renown and Devotion for increasing mechanical bonuses.

On the military side, Knights have been introduced, which are named characters who can join your armies and are very potent in battle. While you'll still raise your forces from off-map like in Crusader Kings 2, there is now a distinction between peasant levies, which are your cannon fodder basic troops, and Men-At-Arms, better-trained warriors like armored swordsmen and longbowmen which you will be able to hire and control the ratios of different troop types within. They won't exist on the map permanently like Crusader Kings 2's retinues, but rather are called up alongside the peasant mob when you raise your levies.

The writer of that article posting more shit on reddit apparently:

BONUS ROUND (Stuff that didn't make it into the article):

* There will be five unique graphics sets for clothes at launch: Western (European), Middle Eastern, Sub-Saharan, Indian, and Steppe. Everyone else uses whatever is the closest match. In terms of physical appearance, the new DNA system can represent all ethnicities, so we probably won't see face packs again. No era-specific clothing at launch.

* Clothing is partly based on rank. A Western Count and a Western Duke might wear a similar style clothing, but one wears linen and one wears silk and you will be able to see that difference.

* No more static event pictures. Events will feature the actual character models posed against some kind of background, and they can have props like knives, crucifixes, etc. Currently they don't animate to actually interact like getting into a fight.

* Tutorial is described as "Stellaris-like", and they've improved the ways the game can give you suggestions on what you want to be doing. More approachable, but not dumbed down.

* Custom religions you found can have Holy Orders. Not ready to talk much about that.

* The tech system is more tied to characters than it was in CK2, but not ready to talk about it yet.

* Councilor jobs like Steward are now an "office" that is placed on the map instead of a person, so you don't have to re-assign it when the councilor dies. The office itself can even still keep working without a holder, just at a very reduced effectiveness.

* The new Doctrines and Tenets are being used to represent more historically accurate versions of real heresies like Catharism. The AI will found these, and they are weighted to appear at the place and time they did historically. The AI will stick to founding historical heresies and won't abuse the system to create random weird ones. That's the player's job.

* Zoroastrians can still have incest, naturally, and you can reform any religion to allow it now.

* Historical events like the Mongol Invasion are in. Dynamic epidemics from Reaper's Due are not in, as they didn't feel that feature worked very well. No word on how the plague will be handled.

* Characters still get sick and are treated by Court Physicians.

* Provinces now have Development, which is like civilization value in Imperator. Tribes don't care about it but feudals get more taxes from it.

* Revolt Risk has been replaced by Control, which is going to work a bit differently.

* If your heir when you die is an old guy who has already invested all of his perks, you can respec his lifestyle tree once if it sucks.

* Splendour is like your Dynasty XP. It's used to buy Legacies, which are kind of like national ideas in EU4 and stay with your dynasty forever. One of these lets you increase the chances of inheriting congenital traits, if you want to create a dynasty of stong genius ubermensch. It's not realistic but it is a playstyle they want to support.

* Foreigners don't care about Dread, only your own vassals.

* Fleets are now handled like CK1. You just pay money to turn into boats. Naval combat is a possibility in the future. Henrik thinks it would be cool, especially for the Mediterranean.

* Vikings can still sail up rivers.

* There is a big dragon hanging out in the Terra Incognita on the Eastern edge of the map and it looks like they've left plenty of room to add China in the future. They wouldn't say anything about it. No Chinese Emperor interactions at launch.

* No plans for a CK3 to EU4 converter.

* You only need to siege the fortified holdings to occupy an entire county. Castles are automatically fortified, but cities and churches are not unless you have built walls in them.

* Factions are back. Peasants can now found factions. One example given was that Norwegian peasants living under a Danish king can found a self-rule faction, and Norwegian culture nobles will join them. Like a combination of a CK2 faction and a peasant revolt, very powerful.

* Henrik is not interested in non-dynastic play (Holy Orders, etc). Playable mercenaries are a possibility, being landless and using your armies to make money. Adoption is also a potential mechanic. Neither one will be in at launch.

* Much more events that deal with interpersonal drama and people important to the player, like family/friends/rivals.

* Events can look back at how the relationship between two characters has developed over many years and generate content for them dynamically.

* Poetry generator that will actually make your poetry better or worse based on character skill.

* Double the number of content designers working on CK3 as CK2 had at its height.

* Direct vassals will always matter. So the previous comment about Barons not being important doesn't necessarily apply if you're a Count.

* No crazy fantasy events (immortality, Satanism, child of destiny) at launch. Undecided if they will be added later, but if they will, there will definitely be game rules to turn them off. CK3 should feel more historical compared to CK2. This was a goal.

* There will be special mechanics for Crusades but they're not talking about that yet.

* Playing pagans feels "significantly different" from CK2.

* You can reform from tribal to feudal.

* Control is more of a short-term thing and Development is more long-term. For example, Control in a province is reduced when it changes owners but recovers quickly.

* Religions have degrees of relation. Abrahamic > Christian > Catholic.

* Eastern Religions are still more tolerant of heresies.

* Ecumenism: Catholics/Orthodox/Coptic don't treat each other as heresies for purposes of CBs and stuff. There are steps of tolerance. It's not just "True Faith, Heretic, or Heathen".

* Converting foreign rulers with your chaplain will not be in at launch.

* Investiture system and antipopes will not be in at launch.

* When you found a new religion, some vassals and some provinces will convert. Based on things like opinion modifier and traits (Zealous/Cynical)

* Terrain type has an effect on Development in provinces, but climate currently does not.

 

[deuxhero]

Update – Henrik Fåhraeus offered this comment: “I feel like this issue has been miscommunicated thus far. We have not specifically considered which terms are used in the game apart from making sense in the historical context. The team will decide how any text fits or does not fit into CK3 in a way that feels appropriate.”

Looks like they are trying to save face.

Notice there's no actual denial in the PR line. If it's false, they'd just say it's false, not that they "feel" its been "miscommunicated".

 

[Preben]

Update – Henrik Fåhraeus offered this comment: “I feel like this issue has been miscommunicated thus far. We have not specifically considered which terms are used in the game apart from making sense in the historical context. The team will decide how any text fits or does not fit into CK3 in a way that feels appropriate.”

Looks like they are trying to save face.

Notice there's no actual denial in the PR line. If it's false, they'd just say it's false, not that they "feel" its been "miscommunicated".

It's pretty obvious that they panicked seeing how huge the backlash is. My guess is that Imperator sales were so disappointing that they don't want to (perhaps even can't) risk another consumer revolt. They are just realising that wishes of their client base are more important than whatever the ivory tower media circlejerk and a few twitter warriors say.

 

[Van-d-all]

My guess is that Imperator sales were so disappointing that they don't want to (perhaps even can't) risk another consumer revolt.

Yeah, but I bet they're at least somewhat aware, that in comparison to CK2 with years od DLCs, CK3 will be content deficient, thus almost certainly facing same critique, and given CK2 huge audience it might turn to a major problem.

 

[fantadomat]

Update – Henrik Fåhraeus offered this comment: “I feel like this issue has been miscommunicated thus far. We have not specifically considered which terms are used in the game apart from making sense in the historical context. The team will decide how any text fits or does not fit into CK3 in a way that feels appropriate.”

Looks like they are trying to save face.

Notice there's no actual denial in the PR line. If it's false, they'd just say it's false, not that they "feel" its been "miscommunicated".

It's pretty obvious that they panicked seeing how huge the backlash is. My guess is that Imperator sales were so disappointing that they don't want to (perhaps even can't) risk another consumer revolt. They are just realising that wishes of their client base are more important than whatever the ivory tower media circlejerk and a few twitter warriors say.

The fanatics of SJWism are not learning animals,it was just PR deflection,there will not be deus lo vult in the game.

 

[Mikeal]