Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

KickStarter Cyber Knights: Flashpoint - the latest tactical RPG from Trese Brothers - now available on Early Access

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064


I like much of what I'm seeing, however the AI has a few glaring issues right now.

For starters, it didn't respond urgently enough to the player characters (PCs) initially breaking stealth. When the body of the first dead enemy was spotted, neither of the enemies in the nearby area reacted. The AI called in a reinforcement but he showed up in "unaware" mode, which makes no sense considering he is supposed to be responding to an identified threat.

Second, when the first shootout starts, the guards respond appropriately to hearing gunfire by rushing to investigate. One of the PCs shoots an enemy a few times and nearly kills him, but then when it's the enemy's turn he simply stands there and returns fire, leaving himself exposed and allowing the PC to easily kill him on the next turn. You'd think the enemy would at least have the sense to take cover, and possibly apply a heal since he is almost dead.

Third, after the first objective is reached and the story event triggers, there is an urgent tone as the PCs are set upon by a response team (RT). And yet the enemies are again spawned in completely unaware, patrolling lackadaisically as if they don't know that the PCs are on site. And yet this RT should know exactly where the PCs are -- they just landed on a helipad 20 feet away from where the PCs were sitting out in the open, AND there is still one guard alive from the site security who could be telling the RT where gunfire was heard and his teammates were shot. Even if you put that aside, at a minimum the RT should be aggressively searching the area and trying to find and engage the PCs before they escape. Otherwise what are they doing there?

This may seem like nitpicking, but to me it really breaks the immersion, and also it made the mission much easier for the player than it should've been. I know this is not a pure stealth game, but when you're a team of 3-4 operatives facing the threat of what is ostensibly a much larger force, then stealth needs to matter. The PCs getting discovered needs to be an "oh shit, we better move fast" type of moment, because that is what makes sense in terms of both mechanics and theme. But it doesn't work unless the AI punishes breaking stealth by moving aggressively and quickly putting the PCs in danger.
 

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,786
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.


I like much of what I'm seeing, however the AI has a few glaring issues right now.

For starters, it didn't respond urgently enough to the player characters (PCs) initially breaking stealth. When the body of the first dead enemy was spotted, neither of the enemies in the nearby area reacted. The AI called in a reinforcement but he showed up in "unaware" mode, which makes no sense considering he is supposed to be responding to an identified threat.

Second, when the first shootout starts, the guards respond appropriately to hearing gunfire by rushing to investigate. One of the PCs shoots an enemy a few times and nearly kills him, but then when it's the enemy's turn he simply stands there and returns fire, leaving himself exposed and allowing the PC to easily kill him on the next turn. You'd think the enemy would at least have the sense to take cover, and possibly apply a heal since he is almost dead.

Third, after the first objective is reached and the story event triggers, there is an urgent tone as the PCs are set upon by a response team (RT). And yet the enemies are again spawned in completely unaware, patrolling lackadaisically as if they don't know that the PCs are on site. And yet this RT should know exactly where the PCs are -- they just landed on a helipad 20 feet away from where the PCs were sitting out in the open, AND there is still one guard alive from the site security who could be telling the RT where gunfire was heard and his teammates were shot. Even if you put that aside, at a minimum the RT should be aggressively searching the area and trying to find and engage the PCs before they escape. Otherwise what are they doing there?

This may seem like nitpicking, but to me it really breaks the immersion, and also it made the mission much easier for the player than it should've been. I know this is not a pure stealth game, but when you're a team of 3-4 operatives facing the threat of what is ostensibly a much larger force, then stealth needs to matter. The PCs getting discovered needs to be an "oh shit, we better move fast" type of moment, because that is what makes sense in terms of both mechanics and theme. But it doesn't work unless the AI punishes breaking stealth by moving aggressively and quickly putting the PCs in danger.

I don't think the Trese brothers visit the Codex, so I'd join the discord or leave quality feedback like this on steam so they can address it.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,697
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-spiritual-successor-to-invisible-inc-is-finally-here

The spiritual successor to Invisible, Inc. is finally here​

Cyber Knights: Flashpoint just launched in early access, and already it's a real keeper
A white-haired cyberpunk warrior and their scan drone from Cyber Knights Flashpoint

If XCOM and Invisible, Inc. had a secret one-night stand in the back of a Cyberpunk 2077 taxi, the resulting lovechild would probably look a lot like Cyber Knights: Flashpoint. It's the next game from the Trese Brothers, the makers of Star Traders: Frontiers, and I've been playing its opening missions over the last couple of days. It's good, folks, and there's a lot to dig into with its release into early access this week.

There's a sizable story campaign and a bunch of side missions already playable here, and its emphasis on stealth and escalating security levels whisked me right back to the good old days of 2015 when I first sat down to play Klei's stealthy masterpiece. There are still a couple of rough edges here and there, but if you've been looking for a strategy RPG with a harder-edge than, say, Mimimi's recently released Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew, or just something a bit sneakier than your run of XCOM-likes, Cyber Knights: Flashpoint is definitely worth keeping an augmented eye on.

Two characters chat during a mission in Cyber Knights FlashpointImage credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Trese Brothers

This being early access, it does have some minor limitations right now. Its XCOM-style base building isn't in the game yet, and its current crop of six character classes (all of which are represented in your mercenary crew right from the off) will eventually double over the course of early access, the devs wrote in a recent Steam post. The rest of its "core features", however, are all present and correct, and the devs have also assured players that any future update won't break your save files (*cough*looking at you, Baldur's Gate 3*cough*). It's promising stuff, and while I've only played a handful of hours out of its estimated 15-20-odd's worth of stuff so far, it's already pretty clear this is going to be something special.

The key thing, of course, being its cyberpunk-infused stealth missions. Sneaking is very much the name of the game here, as going in loud will instantly alert the megacorps' overarching AI systems to your presence, triggering various reinforcements to arrive, the switching on of higher level traps and security measures, and generally making your mission a right old miserable time for you. Figuratively speaking, of course. That means firing your weapons, guards discovering dead bodies and getting caught on camera will all hasten the filling of your security escalation bar - and when things get really hairy, it can sometimes only take a couple of turns for it to tick up yet another level (I say this speaking from bitter experience).

An agent prepares to approach a guard in Cyber Knights FlashpointSneak or sprint too close to a guard and you will be heard, but I'd also like a little more clarification on why some bits of terrain seem to be noisier than others. | Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Trese Brothers

Assuming you play it cool, however, that escalation bar will only increase very slowly, much in the same way it did with Invisible, Inc. That means you can get away with playing it fairly safe in Cyber Knights: Flashpoint, but you can't exactly waste time fulfilling your objectives, either, as the pressure is always on to get in and get out as painlessly as possible. Like XCOM, your soldiers can get injured if they take too much damage during a mission, and they'll need time to recover back at your safe house. They can also accrue Stress if they feel their mates (i.e: you) are making bad decisions, and if your team has too much Heat on them, they'll encounter tougher security threats and lose the trust of various contacts until things have died down a bit. On the flip side, though, they can get an Edge if they play with characters they get along with and have more Respect for, the latter of which is also earned by making decisions during the course of the story campaign.

A gun fight in Cyber Knights FlashpointWhen you attack, the camera zooms in for the action shot. | Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Trese Brothers

Some of these emotional ups and downs are baked into the story. For example, the first mission outside the tutorial saw me holding a position while my remote hacker mate went to work on a nearby terminal to find me an exit, which resulted in my vanguard Emile going, "You know what? Maybe I'll lay off the insults next time I talk to them" sort of thing. But I can also see scenarios where your team's relationships might change more organically, such as failing to accomplish one of its Legwork missions.

These are the kind of automated, off-screen missions you've seen many times before in turn-based strategy games, but you can see upfront how likely you are to succeed on one of these Legwork jobs, as well as what you'll have to deal with afterwards if you fail. I've yet to see how repeated failures affect your squad's relationships in the long term, but it's not like they all immediately turn them all against each other if you mess up once - as everyone is, so far, seemingly okay with the fact that my very same hacker dude got compromised on one of my Legwork missions and brought a truck ton of Heat on us as a result. Whether they'll be so chummy after a few more failures, though, I'll have to wait and see. In any case, I hope the Trese Brothers lean into this more spontaneous element of Cyber Knights over the course of early access, rather than prescribing these moments at set points in the campaign.

A man prepares to shoot a guard in Cyber Knights FlashpointHit percentages govern how likely you are to land an attack. | Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Trese Brothers

Elsewhere in your safe house, you've got skill trees and loadouts to tinker with, cybernetic implants you can splice in to improve the stats and abilities of your crew (at the cost of having some forced recovery time thrown in afterwards, of course), and you've also got to make sure you're earning enough to pay the buggers, as well as your main loan shark Octane, who's funding your little enterprise in the first place (or at least paid for your main Cyber Knight Shrapnel's fancy new cyber spine in the opening story missions). As mentioned earlier, the base building side of the game is disabled for now, but with eight additional "trashed rooms" to potentially play around with, I'd imagine it will scratch that grand XCOM strategy layer itch very nicely indeed once it's in.

Stealth may be the focus, but that's not to say Cyber Knight: Flashpoint's combat isn't worth experimenting with at least a few times during the course of a mission. Some elements of the UI could be clearer to indicate things like the noise radius of your gun, for example, and why some bits of terrain are noisier than others, but most of the time the playful array of abilities you've got at your disposal more than make up for these minor irritations. Emile, for example, can silently run up to guards and knife them in the back - the element of surprise adding a huge damage modifier to proceedings - while others can disable security cameras and movement sensors, or 'anticipate' enemy movement patterns, giving you a heads up on where they'll be moving next so you can plan your heist accordingly.

Agents attempt to slip through enemy sight cones in Cyber Knights FlashpointThe one thing I miss from Shadow Gambit is knowing how and why you'll be spotted when you're planning your line of attack. | Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Trese Brothers

I also love that you can take part of a character's turn and then delay the rest of it until later, as you might want to move them into position, wait for a guard to pass during their turn, and then slip behind them rather than being forced to either confront them or waste precious action points. Sure, this can sometimes feel a teensy bit cheesy if I'm being honest, but it doesn't half feel satisfying when waiting for the right moment does, in fact, pay off.

This flexibility extends to how you move and spend your half-dozen action points in Cyber Knights as well. Like Phoenix Point, you're able to move freely around the map rather than snapping to a fixed grid all the time, but there are several neat touches here that still make it feel like you're getting the best of both systems. You can, for instance, snap to bits of scenery that offer half and full-height cover shields, so you always know that yes, you're definitely in cover here, but otherwise you're free to drag your mouse cursor anywhere you like - or as far as your character's remaining action point pool will stretch. Movement can also be done via sneaking or sprinting (the latter getting you further but at greater risk of being seen and heard, similar to how it works in Mimimi's Shadow Gambit and Desperados 3), or a mix of both if you really need to leg it but have to carefully manoeuvre round a bit of cover first.

The safehouse screen in Cyber Knights FlashpointYou can return to your safehouse between missions, but its base building isn't in the game just yet. | Image credit: Rock Paper Shotgun/Trese Brothers

The enemy AI, admittedly, could use a little work - at least when it comes to full on combat. During my most recent mission, for example, I ended up having to throw stealth out the window at one point to shoot a gang of four to make off with a briefcase they were guarding. Naturally, gunshots were heard and the security started ramping up, with nearby guards coming over to investigate. But I was able to rush through these alerted sight cones quite easily, it turned out, as guards seemed to either be getting caught on each other as they attempted to investigate my last known position, or their suspicious-investigation-hunting-engaged loops just took one too many turns to really go full pelt and savagely pursue me once I'd been spotted. At other times, even if characters seemed to get caught in their sight cones while a guard was moving to their intended position, the guard didn't then interrupt their action to go and get me, as the only danger zone that seemed to matter was where the sight cone landed at the end of their movement action. I feel like I probably got away with more sloppy mistakes than I really should have in these moments, but hey, that's what early access is for, right?

Ultimately, these tiny cheeselets haven't been enough to stink up the rest of what's already a highly engaging and meaty tactics game. I can't say I'm really digging the excessively dry cyberpunk-ness of its script and character interactions (it's fine, we've been around this block so many times now I'm more or less immune to it), but cor, it sure has been a while since I've played a stealth game quite like this. If you have a hankering for a top-down Deus Ex, a more serious and cerebral Shadow Gambit, or even just a stealthier blend of XCOM and Phoenix Point, do give Cyber Knights a look. If the Trese Brothers can spend enough time with the early access ripper doc on this one, we might finally have a contender to Klei's Invisible, Inc. crown.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,496
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
This may seem like nitpicking, but to me it really breaks the immersion, and also it made the mission much easier for the player than it should've been. I know this is not a pure stealth game, but when you're a team of 3-4 operatives facing the threat of what is ostensibly a much larger force, then stealth needs to matter. The PCs getting discovered needs to be an "oh shit, we better move fast" type of moment, because that is what makes sense in terms of both mechanics and theme. But it doesn't work unless the AI punishes breaking stealth by moving aggressively and quickly putting the PCs in danger.
That is definitely true. The AI looks a comically retarded when it comes to awareness. A guard being attacked won't necessarily trigger his comrades nearby.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
20,726
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1021210/view/3746490810807484104
Update #1: So Crispy
Big patch update with piles and piles of fixes - thanks for every F10 :D
8dac6f732e621af7b5c195b0606efad6efd01a3f.jpg

Ahhhh updates are in the air! It's a brand new game with a shiny new Update #1. We're very excited you've all joined us on this journey into the dark and messy future of 2231. What a ride it is going to be.

First Update & F10 Reports
Tonight, we have our first update out - a big patch from all the things we've heard and seen today. A huge thanks to everyone hitting F10 to report a bug. If you do that, we can isolate, fix and test the bug very quickly - we have all the data we need to make an affirmative fix in most cases. Cory's done an amazing job with the bug reporter and it is going to help us harden up and close bugs very quickly. So, F10 on!

As is traditional on the first day, we've focused on fixing things. We also added a number of additional conversation options after the end of the Loophole Heist, but other than that we restrained from adding things today. We just fixed and fixed some more.

In tomorrow's update, we'll do a bit more of a mix of fixing and adding new content and things.


f55bdd049f0eff3a53e70e0c17b604d9428e6f52.png


v1.0.7 - 10/18/2023
- Fixed ending of Loophole Heist not affecting your debt payments
- Accepting Loophole Heist now moves the loan payment deadline back to give time to work the job
- Fixed Wastelander backstory not having proper Attributes
- Dialog reminders about missions that are running out of time clearly state Mission & Contact
- Fixed turn order incorrect when 2 mercs had the same Initiative
- Fixed camera panning and looping between security devices when using Leverage or Matrix
- Fixed soft locks in Loophole Heist when hovering over wall terminal
- Fixing issue where Leverage list during mission was empty
- Fixed invisible wall in Loophole Heist preventing movement
- Fixed backstory descriptions to update with character name and appearance changes
- Fixed loadout names to start correctly generic ("Soldier Loadout")
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,927


I like much of what I'm seeing, however the AI has a few glaring issues right now.

For starters, it didn't respond urgently enough to the player characters (PCs) initially breaking stealth. When the body of the first dead enemy was spotted, neither of the enemies in the nearby area reacted. The AI called in a reinforcement but he showed up in "unaware" mode, which makes no sense considering he is supposed to be responding to an identified threat.

Second, when the first shootout starts, the guards respond appropriately to hearing gunfire by rushing to investigate. One of the PCs shoots an enemy a few times and nearly kills him, but then when it's the enemy's turn he simply stands there and returns fire, leaving himself exposed and allowing the PC to easily kill him on the next turn. You'd think the enemy would at least have the sense to take cover, and possibly apply a heal since he is almost dead.

Third, after the first objective is reached and the story event triggers, there is an urgent tone as the PCs are set upon by a response team (RT). And yet the enemies are again spawned in completely unaware, patrolling lackadaisically as if they don't know that the PCs are on site. And yet this RT should know exactly where the PCs are -- they just landed on a helipad 20 feet away from where the PCs were sitting out in the open, AND there is still one guard alive from the site security who could be telling the RT where gunfire was heard and his teammates were shot. Even if you put that aside, at a minimum the RT should be aggressively searching the area and trying to find and engage the PCs before they escape. Otherwise what are they doing there?

This may seem like nitpicking, but to me it really breaks the immersion, and also it made the mission much easier for the player than it should've been. I know this is not a pure stealth game, but when you're a team of 3-4 operatives facing the threat of what is ostensibly a much larger force, then stealth needs to matter. The PCs getting discovered needs to be an "oh shit, we better move fast" type of moment, because that is what makes sense in terms of both mechanics and theme. But it doesn't work unless the AI punishes breaking stealth by moving aggressively and quickly putting the PCs in danger.

I don't think the Trese brothers visit the Codex, so I'd join the discord or leave quality feedback like this on steam so they can address it.

TreseBrothers
 

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,786
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.


I like much of what I'm seeing, however the AI has a few glaring issues right now.

For starters, it didn't respond urgently enough to the player characters (PCs) initially breaking stealth. When the body of the first dead enemy was spotted, neither of the enemies in the nearby area reacted. The AI called in a reinforcement but he showed up in "unaware" mode, which makes no sense considering he is supposed to be responding to an identified threat.

Second, when the first shootout starts, the guards respond appropriately to hearing gunfire by rushing to investigate. One of the PCs shoots an enemy a few times and nearly kills him, but then when it's the enemy's turn he simply stands there and returns fire, leaving himself exposed and allowing the PC to easily kill him on the next turn. You'd think the enemy would at least have the sense to take cover, and possibly apply a heal since he is almost dead.

Third, after the first objective is reached and the story event triggers, there is an urgent tone as the PCs are set upon by a response team (RT). And yet the enemies are again spawned in completely unaware, patrolling lackadaisically as if they don't know that the PCs are on site. And yet this RT should know exactly where the PCs are -- they just landed on a helipad 20 feet away from where the PCs were sitting out in the open, AND there is still one guard alive from the site security who could be telling the RT where gunfire was heard and his teammates were shot. Even if you put that aside, at a minimum the RT should be aggressively searching the area and trying to find and engage the PCs before they escape. Otherwise what are they doing there?

This may seem like nitpicking, but to me it really breaks the immersion, and also it made the mission much easier for the player than it should've been. I know this is not a pure stealth game, but when you're a team of 3-4 operatives facing the threat of what is ostensibly a much larger force, then stealth needs to matter. The PCs getting discovered needs to be an "oh shit, we better move fast" type of moment, because that is what makes sense in terms of both mechanics and theme. But it doesn't work unless the AI punishes breaking stealth by moving aggressively and quickly putting the PCs in danger.

I don't think the Trese brothers visit the Codex, so I'd join the discord or leave quality feedback like this on steam so they can address it.

TreseBrothers

I stand corrected! :incline:
 

cyborgboy95

News Cyborg
Joined
Aug 24, 2019
Messages
3,079
Update #2: Spinning Under the Lights
b0ea6de9ce3883825de7af45dee04d47c95ddaf8.jpg

What a busy day, mercs! Last night's Update #1 tamped down on some of the most troublesome bugs, so today has felt a little less frenetic and given us some breathing room to get back to hitting some of the early most requested RFEs (camera rotate and zoom during enemy turns), working on the class trees (so many little things fixed!) and bigger systems like Wounds (improved to better fit the Trait mold).

A huge thanks to everyone playing and sharing. If you're enjoying the game and the pace of updates, please take a minute to leave a review and tell a friend.

Camera Rotate and Zoom
We've added the ability to rotate and zoom the camera during enemy turns. This gives you the option to better control the angle and keep things in view that you like. Combined with the option to hit H (or (Y) on a controller) to toggle character highlights, this makes it easier to understand all the action as it happens.

4d5bee354e956d90dc2e9d528ecd4275c1537fae.jpg

Wounds System Improvement
There has been a lot going on with Wounds - your mercs are getting lit up in combat, ending up with Injury Time and that can result in long-term Wounds. And currently, the good Doctors are not offering to treat those Wounds. We are working on resolving the jam-up to get the good Doctors working again but we've also made a bevy of improvements to the Wound system already.

First, we fixed an issue where the "Wounded" tag would show up on the Safehouse Roster whenever someone went on Legwork. Second, we ensured that Wounds are now sorted to the top of your Trait list so they are easy to see. Third, we just re-tuned the debuffs for Wounds. Previously, you were getting debuffs that were appropriate for Level 4 Wound Traits, but it's a bit early for that. We've adjusted the debuffs from Wounds to be inline with Level 1 Traits, which means that (while you can't heal them yet) they are not so devastating that you can't just ignore them and move on. Hopefully nothing bad happens, like getting shot up again or gaining a lot of Stress which can level up the Wound.

Don't worry, the Doctors guild says it will open up soon.

691cafbd7b20b8b4f45880736e04c8e6bcfc3b3e.png

Glossary / Rules
We've added 2 helpful sections on Hit Points, Injury Time, Wounds, Bleeding Out and Death to the Journal / Tutorial Library. The main heading is Glossary and it's a great place to brush up on any terms you're finding confusing. We'll be working on adding here consistently and backing this up with better data across the game.

498b67b5e6052c8f05f27009b0b2f7b9b6c0c0da.png

Class Tree Cleanup
First off - we've upgraded 16 Talent icons to the improved, clearer style. More icons will be coming with each update now.

With all the F10s coming in, there is a lot of work to wrap up issues in the class tree. Tomorrow we will focus on locking up Talents like Chameleon that are causing issues and need a little more time to fix.
  • Soldier's Entrench Talent now correctly explains itself - you can designate an area and any allies within it will gain powerful defensive and armor bonuses.
  • We fixed a misconnect that had appeared halfway across the Cybersword center to the right quad.
  • Sniper Pathfinder upgrades were not correctly linked, now fixed.
  • Knight's Centering Talent upgrade that reduced Evasion and Cover is now fixed.
And More!
There is more, there is always more. I spent an hour today tweaking and improving how cosmetic options all work together. I spent extra time on the masks and face combinations as the focus for this update.

We fixed Bio-Suture Bandages PL2 which were only giving 1 charge instead of 3. Great item!

We extended the Cube Run deadline by 25% as we've been hearing a lot about how difficult it is.

Especially for controller / steamdeck players, we've fixed the (B) or ESC key from the options menu so you don't get stuck in there forever.

v1.0.11 - 10/18/2023
- Allow camera zoom and rotation during the enemy turn
- Wound Traits are sorted first on character details to be most obvious
- All Wounds adjusted to be Level 1 (as all Traits have levels 1-4) with much weaker starting debuffs. If the Wounds are left untreated they may upgrade
- Fixed bugged "1 Wounded" tag shown over Safehouse Barracks whenever someone started Legwork
- Added entries to Journal / Tutorial Library under "Glossary" to cover Hit Points, Injuries, Wounds, Bleeding Out and Death
- Added and replaced 16 Talent icons
- Fixed missing description for Soldier's Entrench Talent
- Fixed Knight's Centered training node actually reducing Evasion and Cover
- Fixed issues with 2 of Sniper's Pathfinder talent upgrades not properly linked ("Talent.name.-1")
- Fixed misconnection Cybersword tree from center to right quadrants
- Fixed Bio-Stitch Bandages PL 2 only having 1 use
- Fixed placement of the second mask where it was floating away from the face
- Extended deadline for Cube Run job by 25%
- Fixed ESC key / (B) for back in the Options menu
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,435
Invisible.inc without the shitty rouge like element would be dream coming true for me.

Inv. Is such a good concept ruined by a meme gameplay mechanic
What do you mean? From what I see this game seems to follow Invisible Inc.'s mechanics very closely (the alarm clock, the guards being sent to investigate, etc.) and Star Traders is considered a really good game, despite being roguelite sandbox in space, which is also very similar approach to Invisible Inc., because there you also had room to do what missions you wanted (within a specific time frame). Or do you just mean missions being randomly generated (which was an upside for me, because it kept things interesting)?
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
29,897
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Invisible.inc without the shitty rouge like element would be dream coming true for me.

Inv. Is such a good concept ruined by a meme gameplay mechanic
What do you mean? From what I see this game seems to follow Invisible Inc.'s mechanics very closely (the alarm clock, the guards being sent to investigate, etc.) and Star Traders is considered a really good game, despite being roguelite sandbox in space, which is also very similar approach to Invisible Inc., because there you also had room to do what missions you wanted (within a specific time frame). Or do you just mean missions being randomly generated (which was an upside for me, because it kept things interesting)?
Think he's talking about the bit where each run is limited to 72 in-game hours.
 

oasis789

Arcane
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
405
Invisible.inc without the shitty rouge like element would be dream coming true for me.

Inv. Is such a good concept ruined by a meme gameplay mechanic
What do you mean? From what I see this game seems to follow Invisible Inc.'s mechanics very closely (the alarm clock, the guards being sent to investigate, etc.) and Star Traders is considered a really good game, despite being roguelite sandbox in space, which is also very similar approach to Invisible Inc., because there you also had room to do what missions you wanted (within a specific time frame). Or do you just mean missions being randomly generated (which was an upside for me, because it kept things interesting)?
Think he's talking about the bit where each run is limited to 72 in-game hours.
invisible inc does have an endless mode but yeah its not really designed for that, it ends up just being a kind of challenge mode to see how long you can last at max difficulty everything
 
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
2,606
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Yo yo yo yo what up nigguhz? Its time for some serious cyber punk heist RPG rite nao.

This will be a longer post so I might just leave a TLDR right here: Trese Bros once more use a KS and some hard work in their garage to build something that puts much bigger devs (this time primarily HBS) to shame. This is indeed a heist RPG with all that it entails (the depth of the mechanics related to this specific niche is basicaly on the level of PnP clasics such as Blades in the Dark or even Shadowrun itself), with p. gud stealth, solid combat and decent writting. It will also keep getting better as this is still EA and tons of features remain to be added. I would say that the art style might turn some people off, but I got used to it myself and the game is worth it in any case. Where the HBS Shadowrun is a talking and daddy issues simulator, Cyber Knights are a cyber punk runner group simulator with all the shit it should entail. Is it any gud? It is fucking great.

Anyway, lets look at the details:

You generate your own "runner" team at the start of the game, some back stories for your starting people are fixed (they present hooks for the main storyline), but you can still customise them a lot in terms of background for example (which gives you some special traits and bonuses to relations with various factions). After a skippable tutorial you get to the real meat of the game and start at your safehouse.

base.jpg


From here you manage flow of the time (charcters need to heal, heat dies down, events happen, deadlines expire etc), manage your contacts, inventory and team. The management layer is p. deep in itself - as you can see you can actually upgrade the base and open up new facilities if you can afford it. You can also level up your people, manage their gear and such.

Each class (of which there are like 5-6 now) has its own skill tree (it is also possible to multiclass characters under some conditions), which is apparently based around the one from Templar Battleforce:

1697877137526.jpeg


As you can see, the characters can also get cybered up for additional bonuses and such.

You can also manage your contacts from here:

contacts.jpg


Contacts are very similar in function to Star Traders. They are vital for your crew as they dictate what you can buy and sell and for how much (ie only some contacts will be interested in buying specific loot and your relationship dictates the price you get - very often you will end up selling stuff deep under its actual price because that is all you can get from the few people you know). All the weapons have multiple upgrade slots, everything comes in multiple levels as well (again availability depends on contacts).

Unlike HBS Shadowrun, this game isnt about solving your team members´ daddy issues, however the characters have their own (mostly random generated) personal storylines and will approach you with stuff (for example my cybersword girl came up recently and said she is addicted to a specific drug that isnt on the open market anymore, but knows about a dealer who can cook that stuff up - she gained a huge debuff as she will eventually die without the drug and it opened a new quest line to pursue). Your people can also develop friendships and animosities among each other on missions depending on what happens (a hacker opening a door quickly becomes more popular with some people and such).

Anyway, now onto the heists.

When you get a job, you have to plan out how to do it. Jobs go from simple single stage affairs to multi stage operations that take you through various maps. In the planning phase, you can send your people to do various legwork (preparatory work) that allows you to get advantages during the missions (ie extra intel, new entry points and such). Legwork can go wrong (various classes are good at various types of legwork and injured characters cant do it at all) and takes time (you always have a deadline for the job). You can also buy special advantages that you can request any time during the mission (stuff like "all the security devices go down for one turn" and such), which are very expensive and again dependent on your contacts.

plan.jpg


Once you select the entry point and are done planing, you can start.

Here is an example of a simple one stage heist from the main storyline. We are here to steal a data storage device from a seedy gangbanger hangout spot and if possible kill a l33t h4x0r who is trying to crack into it. The whole thing is a part of power struggle inside of a large cartel in which you are backing one of your contacts (who is playing her own game but lets not go there right now).


infil.jpg


A few mook-tier guards, a few cameras and some motion detectors (also a few mines as I found out later). Seems simple enough, I brought in a stealth oriented team (stealth specialist, melee specialist and the PC who can also stealth quite well). We make it around the security systems just fine, enter the bar, take down the h4x0r and locate the objective without being noticed. We however will have to go loud to get the objective itself.



going in.jpg


The stealth specialist takes down the guard on the balcony and sets proximity mines at the bottlenecks through which more guards start pouring in once the shit hits the fan. The PC and melee specialist prepare grenades and position themselves to clear the room with the objective.


take down.jpg


The take down goes perfectly, like this was some Ready or Not type of shit. The single guard still standing after the nades go off takes a sword to the face and stays down. We grab the objective and some extra loot - exfill time. Both mines planted by the stealth girl go off shortly and slow the reinforcements down, the PC takes a minor injury on the way out from an enemy mine I didnt realise was there, but other than that this was a perfect, clean run. Good shit.


Anyway, some technical stuff about the tactical gameplay:
- you build up heat every turn, security keeps escalating at certain levels of heat, so you are always under time preasure
- stealth is extremely important and works well, you need to use various talents to lure the guards from positions, disable security devices etc
- carrying of bodies will be implemented soon, each guard you take down will be missed after a set number of turns even if the body is not found
- you will be forced to go loud almost everytime, but stealth can and will make your life much, much easier if you do things right
- AI is OK, enemies take cover, react to sounds, try to flank and are not omniscient, alert status propagates fairly slowly depending on what other guards can see/hear

This is an example of AI response to a very heated up situation:

security AI.jpg


And here you can see a final turn in a larger two stage run after things got really heated - there were like 20 guards on the map by the time we got out:

SHIIIIET.jpg


Once the alarm is raised, the enemy keeps getting reinforced in most cases - you cant kill all the guards, instead you need to grab the objectives and exfil.

Also, there is hacking and it is amazing:

haxoring 2.jpg


Again, tons of gear, cyberdecks, programs etc, you move through the network, fight IC, download valuable shit and do all sorts of h4x0r thingies. Good shit all around.

Anyway, pls stop reading and go play this.
 
Last edited:

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
29,897
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Yo yo yo yo what up nigguhz? Its time for some serious cyber punk heist RPG rite nao.

This will be a longer post so I might just leave a TLDR right here: Trese Bros once more use a KS and some hard work in their garage to build something that puts much bigger devs (this time primarily HBS) to shame. This is indeed a heist RPG with all that it entails (the depth of the mechanics related to this specific niche is basicaly on the level of PnP clasics such as Blades in the Dark or even Shadowrun itself), with p. gud stealth, solid combat and decent writting. It will also keep getting better as this is still EA and tons of features remain to be added. I would say that the art style might turn some people off, but I got used to it myself and the game is worth it in any case. Where the HBS Shadowrun is a talking and daddy issues simulator, Cyber Knights are a cyber punk runner group simulator with all the shit it should entail. Is it any gud? It is fucking great.

Anyway, lets look at the details:

You generate your own "runner" team at the start of the game, some back stories for your starting people are fixed (they present hooks for the main storyline), but you can still customise them a lot in terms of background for example (which gives you some special traits and bonuses to relations with various factions). After a skippable tutorial you get to the real meat of the game and start at your safehouse.

View attachment 42398

From here you manage flow of the time (charcters need to heal, heat dies down, events happen, deadlines expire etc), manage your contacts, inventory and team. The management layer is p. deep in itself - as you can see you can actually upgrade the base and open up new facilities if you can afford it. You can also level up your people, manage their gear and such.

Each class (of which there are like 5-6 now) has its own skill tree (it is also possible to multiclass characters under some conditions), which is apparently based around the one from Templar Battleforce:

View attachment 42399

As you can see, the characters can also get cybered up for additional bonuses and such.

You can also manage your contacts from here:

View attachment 42400

Contacts are very similar in function to Star Traders. They are vital for your crew as they dictate what you can buy and sell and for how much (ie only some contacts will be interested in buying specific loot and your relationship dictates the price you get - very often you will end up selling stuff deep under its actual price because that is all you can get from the few people you know). All the weapons have multiple upgrade slots, everything comes in multiple levels as well (again availability depends on contacts).

Unlike HBS Shadowrun, this game isnt about solving your team members´ daddy issues, however the characters have their own (mostly random generated) personal storylines and will approach you with stuff (for example my cybersword girl came up recently and said she is addicted to a specific drug that isnt on the open market anymore, but knows about a dealer who can cook that stuff up - she gained a huge debuff as she will eventually die without the drug and it opened a new quest line to pursue). Your people can also develop friendships and animosities among each other on missions depending on what happens (a hacker opening a door quickly becomes more popular with some people and such).

Anyway, now onto the heists.

When you get a job, you have to plan out how to do it. Jobs go from simple single stage affairs to multi stage operations that take you through various maps. In the planning phase, you can send your people to do various legwork (preparatory work) that allows you to get advantages during the missions (ie extra intel, new entry points and such). Legwork can go wrong (various classes are good at various types of legwork and injured characters cant do it at all) and takes time (you always have a deadline for the job). You can also buy special advantages that you can request any time during the mission (stuff like "all the security devices go down for one turn" and such), which are very expensive and again dependent on your contacts.

View attachment 42402

Once you select the entry point and are done planing, you can start.

Here is an example of a simple one stage heist from the main storyline. We are here to steal a data storage device from a seedy gangbanger hangout spot and if possible kill a l33t h4x0r who is trying to crack into it. The whole thing is a part of power struggle inside of a large cartel in which you are backing one of your contacts (who is playing her own game but lets not go there right now).


View attachment 42403

A few mook-tier guards, a few cameras and some motion detectors (also a few mines as I found out later). Seems simple enough, I brought in a stealth oriented team (stealth specialist, melee specialist and the PC who can also stealth quite well). We make it around the security systems just fine, enter the bar, take down the h4x0r and locate the objective without being noticed. We however will have to go loud to get the objective itself.



View attachment 42404

The stealth specialist takes down the guard on the balcony and sets proximity mines at the bottlenecks through which more guards start pouring in once the shit hits the fan. The PC and melee specialist prepare grenades and position themselves to clear the room with the objective.


View attachment 42405

The take down goes perfectly, like this was some Ready or Not type of shit. The single guard still standing after the nades go off takes a sword to the face and stays down. We grab the objective and some extra loot - exfill time. Both mines planted by the stealth girl go off shortly and slow the reinforcements down, the PC takes a minor injury on the way out from an enemy mine I didnt realise was there, but other than that this was a perfect, clean run. Good shit.


Anyway, some technical stuff about the tactical gameplay:
- you build up heat every turn, security keeps escalating at certain levels of heat, so you are always under time preasure
- stealth is extremely important and works well, you need to use various talents to lure the guards from positions, disable security devies etc
- carrying of bodies will be implemented soon, each guard you take down will be missed after a set number of turns even if the body is not found
- you will be forced to go loud almost everytime, but stealth can and will make your life much, much easier if you do things right
- AI is OK, enemies take cover, react to sounds, try to flank and are not omniscient, alert status propagates fairly slowly depending on what other guards can see/hear

This is an example of AI response to a very heated up situation:

View attachment 42406

And here you can see a final turn in a larger two stage run after things got really heated - there were like 20 guards on the map by the time we got out:

View attachment 42401

Once the alarm is raised, the enemy keeps getting reinforced in most cases - you cant kill all the guards, instead you need to grab the objectives and exfil.

Also, there is hacking and it is amazing:

View attachment 42407

Again, tons of gear, cyberdecks, programs etc, you move through the network, fight IC, download valuable shit and do all sorts of h4x0r thingies. Good shit all around.

Anyway, pls stop reading and go play this.
Fuck yeah
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
20,726
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1021210/view/3746490810816928332
Update #4: Clearing Decks
Improving reinforcement rates and limits, fixing enemy drone issues, improving class training UI, hovers for Attributes
96d0850a5aa35b2c7c1e0f0e219afc4e752c47eb.png

Update #4 - it's a big one. We've received such helpful feedback and F10's from the community, we've pulled another big patch together to address all the hottest issues. We're excited that Update #4 addresses the most prominent bugs being reported and helps to "clear the decks" as we move toward starting adding more content.

Thank you all for playing, posting F10s and sharing the game. We hope you'll leave a review!

F10 on Matrix
There was a bug making F10's on the Matrix screens impossible to send. This is now resolved, F10 on my good mercs!

Reinforcement Rebalances
With Update #4, we've made some helpful changes to how the Sec AI plans and deploys reinforcements. We've removed some troublesome actions that the Sec AI could call that would balloon the number of enemies on the field, and helped pace the Sec AI not to simply call reinforcements every time once things get hot enough, as the do.

It's a big improvement and should help maintain the balance in both the stealth and fighting approaches for your heists.

Brave Star Drones
In the CARNIVORE job, there were

issues with movement. We've now wrapped up their bugs and if you were getting stuck in that section, reloading your game should be enough to get you going again.


932800473598f9edb34492fc995cfef4af29a769.jpg

Class Tree / Training Updates
With Update #4, we've done away with the layered pop out of data for the class training trees. We've improved the visual for a selected upgrade to make it more noticeable and just included the upgrade details in the same pop out box as the Talent. This prevents any occlusion, hiding something under something else and makes the entire thing feel better.

We've also made a huge pile of fixes to the class trees for Talents like Iron Grip, Silence, Atomic Stutter and more. We fixed connections, missing text, badly linked upgrades and more. There are still more fixes to make from the F10 pile but we've cleared more than half of all reported class tree issues.

We've also updated the display of Passive Talents which fire automatically "When XXX" happens, to help make them more clear. They deserve more visual queues, so we'll be working on that in future updates as well.


fcf1b17a52ce75e3a2c7376e88015700216b5613.jpg

Added Hovers on Attributes
Sorry we missed this one in the first builds - you can now see the full stack of the effects your Attributes have by hovering over them. Also, they now updated correctly after training the class tree, there was a bug that could cause them to stay cached and not updated immediately upon return from the class training screen.


0373e19ed71eec956bea780883cec891fd529fe2.jpg

Fixed Timeline Hangs
If your Timeline was hanging because the Knight went into cyber surgery or sent off to the Doctors -- well, pull this update and you should be back in business. These Doctors ... they've been trying to make people disappear from the beginning, keep an eye on them for me.


00e922b787ec570b697d99f57ae14f75bdbbdc94.jpg

Armor Points Now Shown
Armor points was previously not being shown in hovers or wherever armor points were appearing. Now if you see the Armor shield icon when hovering over a character or enemy, you'll know how many armor points you or they have before their Armor will degrade and use its lower Armor Protection value.

v1.0.15 - 10/20/2023
- Fixed F10 on Matrix screen
- Rebalanced spawning rates and rules to avoid over populating levels with enemies even if Sec Level goes high
- Removed all broken VTOL drones automatically to get games moving - go Carnivore Heist!
- Improved pop out positioning and behavior in Training screen to avoid overlaps, improve control, speed of training
- Added missing hovers detailing effects of attributes Reaction, Strength, Will and Tech
- Hover and targeting reticule show Armor Points, was previously hidden if Armor Points = 1
- Fixed 15 minor issues with class trees, missing descriptions, icons, links (Silence, Skullshot, Iron Grip, Atomic Stutter more)
- Improved labeling of Passive Talents in class tree (Talents which happen automatically "When XXX,")
- Improved mission deploy screen to allow for all operations with clicking, spacebar or (A) on controllers, simpler and faster to use
- Fixed bug putting Cyber Knight into cyber surgery or medical recovery could stop timeline
- Fixed issue unable to plan the route to a mission path unlocked by legwork
- Fixed a boatload of typos
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
4,064
Thank you Parsimonious cook for the detailed write-up! :salute:

Almost everything about this sounds SO FUCKING GOOD. The main issue I have is the story-related content and "daddy issues" as you so appropriately put it. I really hope Bioware companion bullshit is not a major part of the game like it was in the HBS Shadowrun games, and lack of total party creation eventually gets changed. A game like this doesn't need a lot of narrative or character-driven stuff, just an overarching goal to work toward and more systemic type storytelling (ex. if you do a bunch of missions against a certain faction, they will hate you and come for revenge).

Also in that same vein, I hope the game is balanced so that it is expected that people will get killed occasionally and it's not impossible to replace them. Thematically this is supposed to be highly dangerous work where you are constantly up against a greater force, but if no one ever dies then it undermines the premise. Hopefully the game has a few surprises in store for you during your missions and will throw curveballs from time to time that put your team in even greater danger and forces you to alter your plans on the fly.

Anyway, it's rare that I get hyped for games anymore but consider me excited about this one!

:takemymoney:
 

Lyre Mors

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
5,439
Anyway, pls stop reading and go play this.
Backed it on Kickstarter, but am trying to wait for it to exit early access before playing it. Your excellent write-up is only making that more difficult. Thanks for it!

Hope this sells well for the bros. Looks like a bit of a slow start with early access, but hopefully there will be a nice surge in sales once it releases fully. The aesthetic still needs some work, I think. Particularly the character models. Besides that, it looks like I won't have any regrets about supporting these guys again.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,927
Great writeup Parsimonious cook , what are your thoughts on the AI issues Zanzoken mentioned?

I like much of what I'm seeing, however the AI has a few glaring issues right now.

For starters, it didn't respond urgently enough to the player characters (PCs) initially breaking stealth. When the body of the first dead enemy was spotted, neither of the enemies in the nearby area reacted. The AI called in a reinforcement but he showed up in "unaware" mode, which makes no sense considering he is supposed to be responding to an identified threat.

Second, when the first shootout starts, the guards respond appropriately to hearing gunfire by rushing to investigate. One of the PCs shoots an enemy a few times and nearly kills him, but then when it's the enemy's turn he simply stands there and returns fire, leaving himself exposed and allowing the PC to easily kill him on the next turn. You'd think the enemy would at least have the sense to take cover, and possibly apply a heal since he is almost dead.

Third, after the first objective is reached and the story event triggers, there is an urgent tone as the PCs are set upon by a response team (RT). And yet the enemies are again spawned in completely unaware, patrolling lackadaisically as if they don't know that the PCs are on site. And yet this RT should know exactly where the PCs are -- they just landed on a helipad 20 feet away from where the PCs were sitting out in the open, AND there is still one guard alive from the site security who could be telling the RT where gunfire was heard and his teammates were shot. Even if you put that aside, at a minimum the RT should be aggressively searching the area and trying to find and engage the PCs before they escape. Otherwise what are they doing there?

This may seem like nitpicking, but to me it really breaks the immersion, and also it made the mission much easier for the player than it should've been. I know this is not a pure stealth game, but when you're a team of 3-4 operatives facing the threat of what is ostensibly a much larger force, then stealth needs to matter. The PCs getting discovered needs to be an "oh shit, we better move fast" type of moment, because that is what makes sense in terms of both mechanics and theme. But it doesn't work unless the AI punishes breaking stealth by moving aggressively and quickly putting the PCs in danger.
 
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
2,606
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
IMO the main issue with the AI that the devs need to contend with is what is generally refered to as "propagation of alert status" among the NPCs (or rather guards in particular, since vast majority of NPCs you encounter on missions are guards). A few variants were tried in the earlier builds, originaly it was basically "if one guard becomes alert, other guards become alert too," this was realistic (it is fair to assume they would all carry radios), but players also complained that it made the stealth way too hard (I tended to agree and IIRC I gave feedback to that effect too for the first playable build that the KS backers received back in the day), so the devs started to make the propagation of alert status more gradual in the subsequent builds and it is not easy to get it right - the points mentioned by Zanzoken have a lot to do with this.

For starters, it didn't respond urgently enough to the player characters (PCs) initially breaking stealth. When the body of the first dead enemy was spotted, neither of the enemies in the nearby area reacted. The AI called in a reinforcement but he showed up in "unaware" mode, which makes no sense considering he is supposed to be responding to an identified threat.

I would say this is not universal occurance, as I have seen guards who discover bodies make appropriate call outs ("man down" and such) and switch to the "hunting" state. I can imagine that the reinforcements spawning in response to this incident indeed might spawn in "unaware" mode, which means that the alert propagation probably isnt working as well as it should be yet.


... but then when it's the enemy's turn he simply stands there and returns fire, leaving himself exposed and allowing the PC to easily kill him on the next turn. You'd think the enemy would at least have the sense to take cover, and possibly apply a heal since he is almost dead.

Again, the behaviour varies. I have seen guards take cover and try to flank, though I am sure I have also seen some of them stand in the open while shooting. Its certainly not optimal, but I personaly dont see it as a huge issue (if it was the norm it would be different matter of course). What I found more interesting is that I have seen guards basically disengage on a few occassions (the AI engaged in a firefight moved to cover and then broke LoS with my characters) - I wonder if that was a bug or intended behaviour (ie the guard not being willing to take a bullet in that given situation).

Anyway, guards do not use items nor throw grenades in this build, though that is probably going to change. In any case I am personally not a fan of mooks healing themselves in RPGs, as it makes fights too grindy. YMMW of course.

...and yet the enemies are again spawned in completely unaware, patrolling lackadaisically as if they don't know that the PCs are on site. And yet this RT should know exactly where the PCs are -- they just landed on a helipad 20 feet away from where the PCs were sitting out in the open, AND there is still one guard alive from the site security who could be telling the RT where gunfire was heard and his teammates were shot. Even if you put that aside, at a minimum the RT should be aggressively searching the area and trying to find and engage the PCs before they escape.

I agree with this, the dialogue makes it look like the response team is there specifically to look for intruders (you later find out that they were tipped off about your presence). I think it might be an issue with the propagation of alert status I already mentioned, though I can imagine that perhaps the devs didnt want to ramp up the difficulty of that encounter too much (after all this particular situation happens in the tutorial). I will ask around on Trese Bros discord when I have time, I am pretty sure people have been bringing up this particular thing a lot.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,859
Are there any mechanics that allow the player to disrupt enemy comms or cyberware? If there is, it would be an easy way to handwave stupid AI, and also offer an additional progression stick.
 
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 22, 2020
Messages
2,606
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
You actually fuck with enemy security systems as a baseline - the reason why you acumulate heat every turn even if you are not spotted is that the enemy is tracing your "Quantum interference." Its not explained very well as far as I know, but I take it to mean that you somehow disrupt the comms/cyberware/security systems in general in order to be even present on the map (after all I would imagine that there would be all kinds of thermal and other sensors in the setting, that would otherwise make infiltrating most places impossible to being with).

Stealth oriented classes also have talents/skills that allow you to lure enemies in specific locations or apply debufs of various kinds (which would probably be done by hacking enemy cyberware). Plus you can buy advantages before missions that allow you to decrease the alert status and such - so yeah, I think there are ways to explain the bad AI behaviour away in such terms.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom