D&D 5E Discussion

[boobio]

 

[deuxhero]

E6 is something I've been wanting to try for some time. I'd complement it with a few houserules for hex crawling and leveling up, and maybe taking some of the good ideas from 5e like Inspiration. For those not knowing what E6 is, it is basically a 3.5e game in which maximum level (Epic) is 6, and from there onwards you can purchase feats with XP. In addition to the regular feats there is specific ones targeted at increasing attributes, BAB, increasing caster level or gaining new slots, or even gaining certain "epic" spells of level 4 or higher (Restoration, Teleport), but which comes as rituals or with rare ingredients. But no HP bloat or inflation, no Dragonball-Z flying PCs that nuke enemies, no buffing madness.

One thing to keep in mind for E6 is that to work, you need to use splat that has good feats. Core 3.5 does not have the feat options to make it work. The big one is the many sub-systems that let you dip into them with just feats, which is Psionics (Hidden Talent, 1st level only), Incarnum (Shape Soulmeld. Note that while Incarnum is a horrible mess Shape Soulmeld avoids all the bad parts), Dragonmarks (various Eberron books, setting specific), Tome of Battle (Martial Study/Martial Stance), and Binder (sorta... You can grab some binding with just feats, but the options this lets you get aren't that great). These are critical for providing meaningful advancement with just feats.

I think PF is actually a better host for E6 than 3.5 for a few relatively minor reasons.

• The unfucking of the skill system (this is by far the biggest argument for PF over 3.5 in general).
• Some of the core base classes (Paladin, Ranger, Rogue with unchained) are less of a design clusterfuck.
• Many classes (Barbarian Unchained Rogue, Magus, Alchemist, Oracle, Slayer, Arcanist, Kineticist, Mesmerist, sorta Fighter with Advance Weapon/Armor training) have talents they can pick from and Extra ____ feats that give them extra talents. Talents generally give meaningful new abilities, which go a long way to making feat based advancement meaningful without introducing new sub-systems all the time
• Everything is OGL, so it's really easy to find a list of all feats: Just go to aonprd.com .
• Hybrid classes that are well done (Magus, Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue, Warpriest, Slayer, Bloodrager) fix E6's issue of hybrid characters requiring some extreme degeneracy for best effect (3E hybrids tend to struggle at early levels and get great at mid levels, leading to E6 in 3.5 encouraging things like mixing 3 prestige classes and early entry just to get a good fighter mage).
• There's actual ritual spell rules that aren't just the vague suggestions 3.5 had (as "Occult Rituals")
  
• All the classes except Swashbuckler, Shifter, Shaman, non-Archetyped hunter, the Occult classes that aren't Kineticist + Mesmerist, and maybe Gunslinger are worth running. Of those, only Shifter (worse shapeshifter than a Druid that can't cast spells due to negative wisdom), Swashbuckler (a melee class with poor surviability and damage, few class features past a dip and struggling to do its one concept) and maybe Gunslinger (Very, very, pidgeonholed into a single type of build of spamming ranged attacks for huge damage and nothing else, plus attached to badly designed gun rules) are really bad classes, with the rest just lacking any reason why you're playing them over another class that does the concept better. This is a huge improvement to 3.5's bloated class list where only a handful were well designed and most of those attached to a new subsystem.
• Lots of good third party content (that's all in OGL) you can access with just feats. Spheres of Power/Might in particular meshes very well with E6, being all talent based (so a capped character can easily pick up new tricks) and having an optional rule to convert "normal" spells into rituals. Dreamscarred Press's ported Psionics, remade Tome of Battle as Path of War (be warned this and Spheres of Might were not designed with the other in mind, so some degenerate combos exist if they're combined), and remade Incarnum as Akashic Mysteries (considerably less of a clusterfuck than Incarnum). Also of note is Radiance House's Occultist (Binder port), Legendary Game's various books of support for classes first party PF didn't give much to+unfucking some first party optional subsystems, and various Lost Spheres Publishing support for the above. You can find this stuff free on D20pfsrd.com (Psionics, Path of War and some Legendary Games content) and spheresofpower.wikidot.com (most other stuff and the remaining Legendary Games content). These all have good support for progressing with just feats.

Considerations for running E6 in PF are

• The 3.5 version of Toughness still needs to exist alongside the PF version, or the PF version needs to let you take it multiple times. While PF's improvement on that feat is considerable (and should still exist), the 3.5 version could be taken multiple times and it was important because it was the only way to increase your HP more than once.
• Likewise, Open Minded should still exist because Skilled can only be taken once. Make it give 4 skill points instead of five due to PF reworking the skill caps.
• Remove the limit on having two traits of one category when purchasing them with Extra Traits (There's actually an official way to do this in one of the last books, but it's a trait tax in E6)
• Allow pretty much all 3.5 feats/spells/items to be imported unless they combine with PF ones in a degenerate way or are degenerate themselves (Leadership variants).

Considerations for PF classes in E6.

• Kineticist: Ditch the -2 penalty on Extra Wild Talent and give an Extra Infusion talent. Allow Legendary Kineticist content and Make Expanded Element (gained at level 7) a one time "Epic" feat.
• Magus: Make Medium Armor prof+casting an "Epic" feat.
• Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue: Make light armor prof+casting an innate part of the archetype, or give both in a rogue talent.
• Vigilante: This class made Extra Vigilante Talent and Extra Social Talent not exist on purpose since they're often better than normal feats. It's not too big a deal in E6 though, since the properties that make them so generally don't kick in till 8th level. Maybe have an "Epic" feat to gain access to these improvements.
• Summoner and Animal Companion: Let Summoners and AC classes give their Eidolon or AC an extra feat as a feat (effectively sacing one of the master's for one for the companion). Uncap Extra Evolution at your own risk.

 

[Poseidon00]

5e is babies first RPG and Pathfinder is for fags who care too much about mechanics and not enough about good roleplaying or worldbuilding. Join the 1-2-3 master race.

 

[Poseidon00]

Go ahead and label my post as retarded, it only makes my opinions worse

 

[Gyor]

I just bought Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica, Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, Mythic Odysseys of Theros, and the Core Book Gift Set (Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Monster Manual, Slip Cover, and Dungeon Masters Screen all foiled) for $248 cad (Canadian money). Amazon.com has a buy 2 get the third D&D book free. And call me a cuck if you want,, maybe I deserve it this time, but I couldn't resist the deal. Plus I'm not mad at WotC anymore they have been pleasing me lately.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Amusingly, I came across an early Sage Advice article on how to handle disabled adventurers

How about that, overcoming obstacles without turning disabilities into a superpower or whatever.

 

[deuxhero]

Eberron's 5E book introduced magical prosthetics and didn't cause any issues because it fit within the setting and didn't carry absurd rules implications (it eats an attunement slot, and you're likely vulnerable to Heat Metal. That's it.).

 

[pOcHa]

Amusingly, I came across an early Sage Advice article on how to handle disabled adventurers

How about that, overcoming obstacles without turning disabilities into a superpower or whatever.

is that cobold doing a somersault just to spite the legless gnome?

 

[J1M]

The missing 1% is the penis.

 

[Bara]

Tome of Beasts 2 is out from Kobold Press if you are in constant need of new monsters to throw at your players.

I'm particularly fond of the sentient garlic men capable of seeing into the future and the Knight Ab-Errant. Though some of them are just a little too wacky for me such as evil snowman elemental or "Snake with a Hundred Mage Hands"

Also second time they've brought back a undead phoenix as a monster with a "Ash Phoenix." I strangely really keen on that idea of corrupting a creature that's supposed to be a symbol of rebirth and life into a creation of stagnation and death.

Also the continued addition to the animal lords roster is nice with the Toad King. It's a throw back to Greyhawk with the Cat Lord.

 

[Caim]

Though some of them are just a little too wacky for me such as evil snowman elemental or "Snake with a Hundred Mage Hands"

Isn't this the same book series that introduce us to the "Swolebold", aka a swole kobold?

 

[Gyor]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicb...ns-dragons-dragonlance-margaret-weis-lawsuit/

So WotC is being sued by Marget Weis and Tracy Hickman, and boy did WotC fuck up big time. This is what happens when you listen to woke morons on Twitter and forums.

I don't see WotC winning this one, they so WotC is probably going to pay out the nose. The smart move would be to just offer to restore the original deal, making millions in the process instead of spending millions on a lawsuit, but the woke idiots at WotC will likely choose to piss on Dragonlance fans and creators instead to keep woke morons happy.

 

[Caim]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/comicb...ns-dragons-dragonlance-margaret-weis-lawsuit/

So WotC is being sued by Marget Weis and Tracy Hickman, and boy did WotC fuck up big time. This is what happens when you listen to woke morons on Twitter and forums.

I don't see WotC winning this one, they so WotC is probably going to pay out the nose. The smart move would be to just offer to restore the original deal, making millions in the process instead of spending millions on a lawsuit, but the woke idiots at WotC will likely choose to piss on Dragonlance fans and creators instead to keep woke morons happy.

From what I've read Ed Greenwood's contract has the Grand Wizards of the Coasts so tightly by the balls that if they go against him he regains ownership of Forgotten Realms. Weis and the Hickmans (who are 66% woman by the way, a more diverse crowd than the developers of 5e) probaby don't have their beds made in such a spectacular fashion, but if this is such a clear-cut case of breach of contract... well, the Wizards are going to have to do a lot more Rick & Morty crossovers to pay them off.

 

[deuxhero]

Sadly, Hasbro has money and they don't. At most they'll get a settlement with a fraction of what they're supposed to.

 

[Bara]

Yeah we're never seeing 5e dragonlance as I dont see them winning tge lawsuit and even if they did this will probably get the product sabatoged.

Isnt this the second tine they tried this nonsense? I seem to recall something about wotc hiring a author to do new dragonlance novels and that author quickly quit when he found out that was without Weiss and hickmans okay.

This is all the more reinforcing my belief wotc going to screw up those classical settings they were talking about prior.

Least Mystara or Birthright is safe there so much representation in there thats it'll be offensive too the crazies in wotc.

 

[Gyor]

Sadly, Hasbro has money and they don't. At most they'll get a settlement with a fraction of what they're supposed to.

Even if WotC settled for 10 million dollars, the requisted amount, the PR damage this is going to inflicit on WotC will be worse. All because they wanted to appease an idiotic woke mob on twitter they should have ignored. They could have made money and instead they will lose money and piles of good will and end up with even more resentment.

 

[Mortmal]

Maybe they are part of that idiotic twitter mob, they live in their own bubble and are impervious to reality and completely disconnected with their real paying customers . Cause to make such bad business move like this it, require skill ,sort of.They got lucky critical role play 5E and made it popular else another system could easily win.

 

[Gyor]

Maybe they are part of that idiotic twitter mob, they live in their own bubble and are impervious to reality and completely disconnected with their real paying customers . Cause to make such bad business move like this it, require skill ,sort of.They got lucky critical role play 5E and made it popular else another system could easily win.

I just got banned for calling these woke Twitter idiots on their bullshit and WotC on their stupidity. So sick of the woke turning everything I loved into piles of shit, from left-wing politics, to D&D, and so many other things, and then silencing any critics that come up.

Its a tumour.

 

[Bara]

5e's still an overall good system and I think it would have reclaimed the top slot for most popular TTRPG from Pathfinder no problem. It's just critical role vastly inflated the pool of TTRPG and further increased the gap between top and second slot ttrpgs.

When 6e releases even if it's a mechanical mess it'll probably remain the top even if regular TTRPG players flock to a new system as I suspect all the new table top gamers in the hobby right now who will probably who will refuse to look at different systems. It would take critical role taking up a new system and popularizing on top of that to force wotc to play second fiddle again. Which most likely will never happen as Mercer knows where his bread is buttered.

I still remember how people were trying to get Mercer to comment on the "#firemikemearls" and at most he only talked about how it was his saddest day and was depressed when the news Mearls was not fired came out.

As bland as I find critical role I bare them no ill will but it is a little funny to imagine that wotc has them by the balls now after partnering for Wildemount and now whenever some sort of drama happens at wotc Mercer is going to get dragged into it by people telling him to either speak up or stop supporting 5e when he can't.

 

[Gyor]

5e's still an overall good system and I think it would have reclaimed the top slot for most popular TTRPG from Pathfinder no problem. It's just critical role vastly inflated the pool of TTRPG and further increased the gap between top and second slot ttrpgs.

When 6e releases even if it's a mechanical mess it'll probably remain the top even if regular TTRPG players flock to a new system as I suspect all the new table top gamers in the hobby right now who will probably who will refuse to look at different systems. It would take critical role taking up a new system and popularizing on top of that to force wotc to play second fiddle again. Which most likely will never happen as Mercer knows where his bread is buttered.

I still remember how people were trying to get Mercer to comment on the "#firemikemearls" and at most he only talked about how it was his saddest day and was depressed when the news Mearls was not fired came out.

As bland as I find critical role I bare them no ill will but it is a little funny to imagine that wotc has them by the balls now after partnering for Wildemount and now whenever some sort of drama happens at wotc Mercer is going to get dragged into it by people telling him to either speak up or stop supporting 5e when he can't.

It's simple, he can't just ignore these fools.

 

[Mortmal]

Maybe they are part of that idiotic twitter mob, they live in their own bubble and are impervious to reality and completely disconnected with their real paying customers . Cause to make such bad business move like this it, require skill ,sort of.They got lucky critical role play 5E and made it popular else another system could easily win.

I just got banned for calling these woke Twitter idiots on their bullshit and WotC on their stupidity. So sick of the woke turning everything I loved into piles of shit, from left-wing politics, to D&D, and so many other things, and then silencing any critics that come up.

Its a tumour.

Of course immediately banned, welcome in the new e-dictatorship, another one obsessed with racial issues .But dont despair somehow people will get tired of their bullshit, you dont break a contract with a respected and iconic writer like margaret weiss without consequences. People can still move to other systems, like when they abandonned 4e for pathfinder. 5E is a good system but you can refine it if you want, like they do in shadow of the demon lord, and even more fluid version to play and not plagued with such nonsense. Who knows which system will win.

 

[deuxhero]

Wonder why Random House hasn't gotten in on the lawsuit since they would be an injured party going by the filing.

 

[Bara]

Budgets might be tight with the pandemic so they don't want to risk loosing legal fees on top of it?

 

[Gyor]

Budgets might be tight with the pandemic so they don't want to risk loosing legal fees on top of it?

Also they might not want to sour future business dealings with WotC.

 

[Gyor]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boundi...wizards-of-the-coast-for-over-30-million/amp/

I was wrong, it turns out instead of 10 million dollars, they are going for 30 million dollars. The fact that D&D trilogies are worth millions of dollars shows how stupid WotC really is for ending the novel line in the first place. I mean Penguine House was willing to pay them 30 million dollars for these books, holy shit. Not the all the writers fetch that kind of money, but even 1/10th of that is a nice amount of money.

I'm now utterly convinced WotCs current success is 75% dumb luck.