D&D 5E Discussion

[rusty_shackleford]

first and foremost: having a table of modifiers which is not a straight mathematical function but some numbers "because i said so" is retarded. and the whole game is built on modifiers.

It's designed for people who can't do basic arithmetic.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

but it's also made for people who can waste 90% of their time consulting tables and rulebooks instead of having fun.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

but it's also made for people who can waste 90% of their time consulting tables and rulebooks instead of having fun.

First off, it's definitely not. 5e is incredibly rules-light, are you sure you're reading the right book?
Secondly, as a fan of Rolemaster and Spacemaster, I take offense at the assertion of looking at tables not being fun.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

opened one random manual on random page. player's basic rules. page 21. tell me again how it's fun to have to go check the spells table every time you level up. turn a few more pages and you see more and more tables, for the most disparate effects. it's maddening. every time you level up you also must check the class table for hps, and check the stat modifier table and find your constitution's in there. every time. few more pages, about the fighter:

Ability Score Improvement When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level

why? why those numbers? what's the logic behind? the numbers mason, what do they mean?
then the rogue, every level it gains a different feature, so you have to check THIS table to see the name of the feature, and then go check another section to understand what that actually means, and i'm ready to bet your left testicle it's going to be another tablefest of ass pulled numbers.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

opened one random manual on random page. player's basic rules. page 21. tell me again how it's fun to have to go check the spells table every time you level up. turn a few more pages and you see more and more tables, for the most disparate effects. it's maddening. every time you level up you also must check the class table for hps, and check the stat modifier table and find your constitution's in there. every time. few more pages, about the fighter:

Ability Score Improvement When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level

why? why those numbers? what's the logic behind? the numbers mason, what do they mean?
then the rogue, every level it gains a different feature, so you have to check THIS table to see the name of the feature, and then go check another section to understand what that actually means, and i'm ready to bet your left testicle it's going to be another tablefest of ass pulled numbers.

5e needs more tables, not less

Nobody wants to play your game based on mathematical formulas because it was designed to be easy to design, not to be interesting to play.

Ability Score Improvement When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level

going to take a wild guess that it's based on total XP rather than level

 

[deuxhero]

3E's ability score improvement was easy to remember: Every level that's a multiple of four (4, 8, 12, 16, 20). 5e's change to that is just another example of the retardation of the entire system being built around a concept of "bonded accuracy" that doesn't actually work (random variation always impacts more than your modifier, casters are still able to manipulate accuracy, and casters still raise in power exponentially)

 

[Morblot]

tell me again how it's fun to have to go check the spells table every time you level up.

Lol.

 

[J1M]

opened one random manual on random page. player's basic rules. page 21. tell me again how it's fun to have to go check the spells table every time you level up. turn a few more pages and you see more and more tables, for the most disparate effects. it's maddening. every time you level up you also must check the class table for hps, and check the stat modifier table and find your constitution's in there. every time. few more pages, about the fighter:

Ability Score Improvement When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level

why? why those numbers? what's the logic behind? the numbers mason, what do they mean?
then the rogue, every level it gains a different feature, so you have to check THIS table to see the name of the feature, and then go check another section to understand what that actually means, and i'm ready to bet your left testicle it's going to be another tablefest of ass pulled numbers.

5e needs more tables, not less

Nobody wants to play your game based on mathematical formulas because it was designed to be easy to design, not to be interesting to play.

Ability Score Improvement When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level

going to take a wild guess that it's based on total XP rather than level

They tried to smear feats and attributes across levels that don't have class kit features so that no level ups felt like duds.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

They tried to smear feats and attributes across levels that don't have class kit features so that no level ups felt like duds.

Almost like they looked at the overall system when designing it rather than just slapping an arbitrary formula on top of it.

 

[Bara]

New book is indeed another anthology set of adventures.

I didn't dig deep into any information being discussed online so likely missing context but two bits of information I skirted across that got my attention.

One of the adventures is supposedly designed with streamers in mind and their leaving things "open" in the adventures with guidance for game masters to insert their own material.

The first is really stupid if right and the second i expect them to be lazy and useless with their guidance like in a lot of the recent books.

Also this is being written by a set of all diverse writers apparently. Which yeah sure representation is good and I'd love to explore fantasy versions of other cultures but only if the material is good.

Candlekeep was hyping representation too but man was it bland if not outright bad like everything else going that route now a days.

 

[mediocrepoet]

leaving things "open" in the adventures with guidance for game masters to insert their own material.

That's usually why I buy published adventures: to get encouragement to use my own material. Maybe next time I'll just send them a cheque and skip the part where they have to publish anything.

 

[deuxhero]

I remember the idea of intentional gaps in an adventure for your own stuff was tried in Legacy of Fire back in 2009. It was universally considered a failure and never attempted again.

 

[RangerBoo]

Holy shit! Who is this made for? The toddlers who watch Coco Melon? No conflicts, no political back stabbing, no plot hooks, no dark grimy streets, emphasis on diversity and inclusion. D&D really is now just a Mary-Sue simulator and therapy session for genetic dead ends who spend all their free time on Twitter.
Also, when they say "The authors diverse background" do they really mean the upper middle class, gated community, American Blue State background that all these fucking writers grew up in because I doubt that even fucking one of the writers grew up in fucking Uganda.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Holy shit! Who is this made for? The toddlers who watch Coco Melon? No conflicts, no political back stabbing, no plot hooks, no dark grimy streets, emphasis on diversity and inclusion. D&D really is now just a Mary-Sue simulator and therapy session for genetic dead ends who spend all their free time on Twitter.
Also, when they say "The authors diverse background" do they really mean the upper middle class, gated community, American Blue State background that all these fucking writers grew up in because I doubt that even fucking one of the writers grew up in fucking Uganda.

How dare you!? This is written by black and brown people about their lived experiences. I mean, the main guy on the video is named Ajit ffs. Quit being so xenophobic.

EDIT: Seriously though, fuck current D&D.

 

[RangerBoo]

How dare you!? This is written by black and brown people about their lived experiences. I mean, the main guy on the video is named Ajit ffs. Quit being so xenophobic.

EDIT: Seriously though, fuck current D&D.

If this is about the lived experiences of black and brown people than shouldn't the city be full of crime, gangs, drugs and shit in the streets instead of a utopia? Got to love the magical thinking and delusions of Woke Leftist white people from Seattle.

 

[mediocrepoet]

How dare you!? This is written by black and brown people about their lived experiences. I mean, the main guy on the video is named Ajit ffs. Quit being so xenophobic.

EDIT: Seriously though, fuck current D&D.

If this is about the lived experiences of black and brown people than shouldn't the city be full of crime, gangs, drugs and shit in the streets instead of a utopia?

Quit being so racist. This is a city of shopkeeps, taxi drivers, bards, and basketball players. It's not a martial city, as discussed, because they didn't have a source of elephants to supply the cavalry.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Oh man, that limited edition cover they showed at the end of the video (I assume that's what it is) looks like ass. It's worse than the normal cover.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Sorry for the chain posting, I just can't even. What the shit is "hope punk" and "solar punk". Also, specifically re: "hope punk", you can't just throw "punk" at the end of anything else and have it work. Generally, the aesthetics of what makes a setting cyberpunk, steampunk, etc. is that they are very specifically not very hopeful or nice places. (It's also part of what makes them interesting.)

Who the fuck wants to use D&D to play hugbox?

 

[RangerBoo]

Sorry for the chain posting, I just can't even. What the shit is "hope punk" and "solar punk". Also, specifically re: "hope punk", you can't just throw "punk" at the end of anything else and have it work. Generally, the aesthetics of what makes a setting cyberpunk, steampunk, etc. is that they are very specifically not very hopeful or nice places. (It's also part of what makes them interesting.)

Who the fuck wants to use D&D to play hugbox?

They think putting punk at the end of everything makes them "quirky" and "unique". They don't want to be reminded that they are retarded apes and that they aren't special. They are the same decaying retarded matter as the rest of us.
As to who wants to use D&D as a hugbox? That would be mentally ill Twitter users who have used D&D as a replacement for much needed psychiatric help. The psychiatrist will tell them what they don't want to hear like there being no such thing as 97 different sexes or that the "headmates" they have are a sign of a serious mental illness. Instead they can play with other freaks who enable their bad behavior. It reminds me of the homeless drug addicts here in my state who cut off all contact with their families and refuse to get help because they love the lifestyle and the enabling and nonjudgmental behavior of their fellow homeless addicts.

 

[Tyranicon]

Sorry for the chain posting, I just can't even. What the shit is "hope punk" and "solar punk". Also, specifically re: "hope punk", you can't just throw "punk" at the end of anything else and have it work. Generally, the aesthetics of what makes a setting cyberpunk, steampunk, etc. is that they are very specifically not very hopeful or nice places. (It's also part of what makes them interesting.)

Who the fuck wants to use D&D to play hugbox?

I'm not a huge fan, but hope/solar punk are legitimate genres/setting groups. Hope punk specifically is the reverse of grimdark, and solar punk is just steam/clock punk with solar tech.

They're very much on the idealistic side of the spectrum, which by itself shouldn't be cause for ridicule... but I don't think they're very popular either.

 

[Angelo85]

Never heard the terms before so had a surface search and looked at their Wikipedia entries. The concept of Solarpunk as a genre I acknowledge, it does have merits.

But Hopepunk I'm having trouble accepting as legitimate genre, perhaps because I fail to grasp what it's supposed to encompass. It seems to me that it's kinda vague in it's self definition. Almost more like a spiritual concept, "Hopepunk it's what YOU make of it *duh*" an amalgamation of (very) loosely connected positive concepts. Yet it's supposed to be the stellar opposite of "grimdark" which I frankly fail to see. Also besides it's original definition the Wikipedia entry speaks of Hopepunk being part of activism, and political resistance, muddling it's definition even more by broadening it even further.

/e: thinking about it a bit more. If you tell me to picture a Solarpunk scene in my head I have a pretty clear image in my head. Same for Cyberpunk, Grimdark, any genre really.
But doing the same exercise with Hopepunk and I'm at a loss here. There is no real definition. Even more vague concepts like religion, sci-fi, greed whatever really can be associated with certain, clear images. But thinking of Hopepunk and how it's described all images that spring to mind are more suitable to another already existing concept. That's why in my opinion it can not be called a genre itself.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Solarpunk sounds dumb, but I get it. Instead of pollution and coal in steampunk, you have solar panels and can live in an ecoterrorist's utopia.

Hopepunk... the opposite of grimdark? So it's the Christian rock of punk? Which is... totally not punk. To each their own, but wow, Codexia is not the target demographic.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Hope punk specifically is the reverse of grimdark,

I thought that was noblebright.

 

[Caim]

Solarpunk sounds dumb, but I get it. Instead of pollution and coal in steampunk, you have solar panels and can live in an ecoterrorist's utopia.

Yes, it's all bright and sunny and happiness and rainbows and culling political dissidents and making enemies of the state disappear at night. It's the most functional way of running a police state: implement social credit and reward those who turn against wrongthinkers and the people become their own secret police.

 

[0wca]

opened one random manual on random page. player's basic rules. page 21. tell me again how it's fun to have to go check the spells table every time you level up. turn a few more pages and you see more and more tables, for the most disparate effects. it's maddening. every time you level up you also must check the class table for hps, and check the stat modifier table and find your constitution's in there. every time. few more pages, about the fighter:

Ability Score Improvement When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level

why? why those numbers? what's the logic behind? the numbers mason, what do they mean?
then the rogue, every level it gains a different feature, so you have to check THIS table to see the name of the feature, and then go check another section to understand what that actually means, and i'm ready to bet your left testicle it's going to be another tablefest of ass pulled numbers.

Wow, dude.

Arguing that certain game mechanics are rules-heavy or bloated is reasonable, especially if you're talking about games like Shadowrun or the like (even though I like the game), but arguing that "leveling up" is a chore, especially in a rules-lite edition like 5E is just plain fucking retadred.

Leveling up is a procedure that doesn't happen every session but probably every other session or even longer (at higher levels) - it gets less and less frequent and it represents about 10% of a game session's time or even less (usually it's done by the players IN BETWEEN sessions so as to not use up session time). Also, if you're playing a character and you're not excited about gaining a new ability or a new spell, then it's YOU who's deterring your own fun. Granted, there are class features in 5E and other systems that might give you an ability or something that's very meh, but usually you're gonna get something even remotely interesting.

"Why? Why those numbers? What's the logic behind?"



It's called "character progression". It's distributed amongst levels because your character will encounter creatures that have more powerful capabilities at certain challenge ratings and you need to gain abilities to offset the balance, otherwise you'd get assfucked the next time you meet a troll at level 6 with half your abilities missing. It gives you two things - survivability and versatility (multiple options for overcoming obstacles). HP mechanics are built on the same logic - survivability, and you could argue that specific mechanic a bit more when it comes to HP bloating, but certainly not with your asinine criticisms.

If game developers could simplify the process even more, they would. That's what EDITIONS do - they try to maintain as many of the core principles of the game whilst making it more easily understandable and less bloated (or at least, that's what they're supposed to do).

What's your idea of character progression? Your character getting a sandwich and a slice of cake with a candle on it that says: "Congratulations, you're level 2! You made it!". I swear to God these fucking arguments about how RPGs are too complex are just pissing me off. It's you retard - IT'S YOU.