From Software Dark Souls 3

[Rolk's Drifter]

Lets put it like this then. Iron Keep doesn't have mobs or even gang bangs, almost every enemy is evenly spaced and you can see far enough to know before they come at you. At best, you have singular enemies that will rush you when they notice you're in their area but that's it. It's nothing like Lost Bastille, and that's why its better. At best, you'll have to fight 2 enemies at once, lost bastille, you'd be going against 5 -7.

Also, I've run through Iron keep with different builds and it worked well.

I don't understand why people had problems with IK but they did. Maybe that was pre-Scholar. Either way you're wrong about Lost Bastille as meanwhileInPoland demonstrated. Remember that video? The one you ignored?

The anti-horde lobby come across to me as wanting level designers to prevent them from making mistakes. If you aggro that many in LB, you've made a mistake. Same with horse-rape alley. It's nothing if you know what you're doing. Yet lots of people refuse to even go there cos it's too hard/unfair. I wish I could say it's because they're retarded but it's worse. They're lazy.

Another thing to remember is that it's pretty much the only thing standing in the way of the Ruin Sentinels. They are a summon heavy boss, plus one of the few places you'll see a Blue Sentinel. If you invade there early, without late game gear, that room is pretty much the only chance you have of winning many invasions. Either you need the numbers to even out a fight, or you need them to slow down someone running to the boss. Despite what some people claim, the Souls series isn't a single player game. If you leave invasions out of your level design, you just end up with shit like DS3.

Umm.... did we played the same game here, or have they completely revamped the boss for SotFS? I haven't played the SotFS one, but

1. Bullshit mid-health gimmick (DPS aura)
2. Good hit detection? lol
3. Just like with the rest of the enemies in the base game and the DLCs, this boss suffers bullshit animated moveset that ruin the entire feel of the game when compared to its' predecessors and even BB and DS3

Smelter Demon was just like the rest of the bosses in the entire base game of DS2: oversized humanoid enemy.

But Sinh's basically a copy of Kalameet. Seriously, there should've been a trick to bring down Sinh permanently like with Kalameet, or at least made it like a trick with bringing down the Brain of Mensis.

1. So you're the one person in all of gaming to have died from it? It's an honour to finally meet you. Seriously, it's irrelevant. For it to be bullshit or a gimmick, it would have to matter. It doesn't, so it's not.
2. Yes. I've never had a problem with hit detection in that fight.
3. Ah yes, your feels. I'm sorry Smelter touched you in the naughty place

So... Smelter is bad because he's humanoid, yet your favourite bosses are humanoid. Sinh is bad because he's like Kalameet and he's bad because he's not like Kalameet. Truly enlightenend analysis you've got there brah..

PS: Sinh is the best dragon fight because he's the ONLY dragon fight. Also, he fucks your equipment up which is awesome. More bosses should do that. But oh yeah, feels.

Gothic had terrible combat... G1 had shitty controls, while G2 had better controls...

Mouse fag detected.

It's to your credit you play older games but get serious. Gothic was designed for keyboard only. Think about that.

 

[Black Angel]

1. So you're the one person in all of gaming to have died from it? It's an honour to finally meet you. Seriously, it's irrelevant. For it to be bullshit or a gimmick, it would have to matter. It doesn't, so it's not.

No, I never died to it, but it's still a bullshit gimmick. Check out EpicNameBro's commentary on that.... 'mechanic'. It's there simply to make the fight difficult for the sake of difficulty. You won't be finding that kind of shit in the other games. Though, I didn't get the chance to play Demon's Souls and I'm only on the earlier part of Dark Souls 3, so I wouldn't know if there's anything like that.

So... Smelter is bad because he's humanoid, yet your favourite bosses are humanoid.

How the fuck did you even come to that conclusion? Because I liked Gehrman and Maria bossfight? Here's the catch, bro. I liked most of bossfights in Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne. Like I said, I'm still on the earlier part of Dark Souls 3 so I can't really comment about the bosses, but Dark Souls 2? There's just WAY too much humanoid bosses, it's boring. Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne had enough variety of bosses to keep it interesting, and from there I know they're pretty creative when it comes to bosses and could easily picks up my fav.

I gotta admit, I liked Raime because he's supposedly a successor to Artorias. But, looking back, the way the game was made, the animation, the frames, nearly everything, it just doesn't feel right. There's no way I would play through all that shit ever again. Meanwhile, I could easily get back to Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne, and if only I have it or if it gets remastered for PS4, Demon's Souls.

 

[toro]

no you don't. Gothic had terrible combat

Why do you have to be a retard?

Gothic's combat is bad and words can't change that.

At the moment of release, Gothic combat was the best there was. Only Drakan and Severance:BoD had better or on par combat.

* I will go out on a limb and say that Gothic had the best action combat until Dark Souls was released in 2011.

Today Gothic combat is dated compared to Dark Souls but overall it's really good. I'm talking about G1 and G2 and not the stun-fest called G3.

It was fluid and it felt good once you mastered the keys. Yeah, it was occasionally clunky but I had not problems with it.

You got blocking, strafing, combos - it's a combat system with depth which is much more than many AAA titles have. I still remember Gothic 2 where I was under-leveled and I had to fight a Lich and its skeletons for like 10 minutes - the best fight I had in that game (and it felt so good in the end).

Which brings another big difference, not even today Dark Souls can match the mobs AI from Gothic: getting surrounded, getting bait and forcing you to actually learn the combat pattern of most mobs.

* DaS3 is absolute shit from this point of view. You just need to spam roll + R1 on every mob (with probably 3 or 4 mobs where this pattern doesn't work ... hmm ... I think it works on everything including bosses and invaders).

In my opinion, Gothic combat is not perfect (and could be improved a lot) but it's far from terrible. In some way, Gothic has a proto-DaS combat cause all the DaS things are there but not in a refined or conscientious way.

* Now, you are just an edgy prick who likes to shit on Gothic because Dark Souls has a more refined combat system and this is all you know. Overall Gothic is the better game and I would give 3 DaS games for a proper Gothic game.

 

[Declinator]

At the moment of release, Gothic combat was the best there was. Only Drakan and Severance:BoD had better or on par combat.

* I will go out on a limb and say that Gothic had the best action combat until Dark Souls was released in 2011.

I'm gonna go out on a limb too and say that you have never played any console action games. Gothic combat is not even close to the likes of Ninja Gaiden or God Hand and Demon's Souls has practically the same combat as Dark Souls.

Even if Gothics were mechanically as good as Dark Souls, the series (at least Gothic 2 and 3) lacks interesting enemies. All the special encounters (e.g. bosses) are forgettable.

In some way, Gothic has a proto-DaS combat cause all the DaS things are there but not in a refined or conscientious way.

You got blocking, strafing, combos - it's a combat system with depth which is much more than many AAA titles have.

Pretty much every single action game has blocking, strafing and combos though.

 

[sullynathan]

toro typical gothic fag giving credit to gothic where it isn't due. Pretty much every action game has what, you mentioned. Why do you keep acting like they don't or like if gothic did it better? Within the early 2000s that gothic came out, you had devil may cry, ninja gaiden black, blade of darkness, god of war and whatever other shit that came out that played better. It also goes back to console having better action games.
Gothic 2's combat wasn't as bad. Gothic 3's is the one I would have really liked if it was tweaked more. It had more mechanics than the first 2 and more skills and movesets.


The combat is clunky shit that requires low level skill. Still a good game though and one of the few in which I excuse the poor combat.

It's to your credit you play older games but get serious. Gothic was designed for keyboard only. Think about that.

I beat Gothic 1 with keyboard because it's impossible to play with a mouse. I played gothic 2 with a mouse and keyboard because that's how it was meant to be.

 

[toro]

At the moment of release, Gothic combat was the best there was. Only Drakan and Severance:BoD had better or on par combat.

* I will go out on a limb and say that Gothic had the best action combat until Dark Souls was released in 2011.

I'm gonna go out on a limb too and say that you have never played any console action games. Gothic combat is not even close to the likes of Ninja Gaiden or God Hand and Demon's Souls has practically the same combat as Dark Souls.

Even if Gothics were mechanically as good as Dark Souls, the series (at least Gothic 2 and 3) lacks interesting enemies. All the special encounters (e.g. bosses) are forgettable.

I did no have a console at that time ... in fact I never owned a console and probably I never will. On PC side, the offer was limited at the time.

I did not say for once that Gothic has better combat that DaS franchise - just that is not terrible.

Yeah, Gothic is forgettable it you reduce it to boss encounters. But the game was not designed with those in mind and the game is far from forgettable in the rest of aspects.

In some way, Gothic has a proto-DaS combat cause all the DaS things are there but not in a refined or conscientious way.

Why? Gothic combat could gave evolved in something similar to DaS combat. Unfortunately they lost it with G3.

You got blocking, strafing, combos - it's a combat system with depth which is much more than many AAA titles have.

Pretty much every single action game has blocking, strafing and combos though.

True. But most games requires that you spam attack asap instead of actually thinking. Gothic combat was different because it required a rhythm - a dance with your opponent. And for some reason, this was satisfactory when you could properly perform it.

Also similar to DaS, Gothic allowed an under-leveled player to approach high level mobs - basically you could kill anything based on your skills.

In addition, Gothic AI is still rare nowadays - mobs could surround you, take turns in hitting you and even lure you. Each mob had a different combat pattern.

We can beat around the bush but Gothic combat was pretty deep for its time.

Now, there are a bazillion of other games which have absolutely shallow combat but if your thing is to shit on Gothic combat then please carry on.

 

[toro]

toro typical gothic fag giving credit to gothic where it isn't due. Pretty much every action game has what, you mentioned. Why do you keep acting like they don't or like if gothic did it better? Within the early 2000s that gothic came out, you had devil may cry, ninja gaiden black, blade of darkness, god of war and whatever other shit that came out that played better. It also goes back to console having better action games.
Gothic 2's combat wasn't as bad. Gothic 3's is the one I would have really liked if it was tweaked more. It had more mechanics than the first 2 and more skills and movesets.

The combat is clunky shit that requires low level skill. Still a good game though and one of the few in which I excuse the poor combat.

Yep. Shit taste.

It's to your credit you play older games but get serious. Gothic was designed for keyboard only. Think about that.

I beat Gothic 1 with keyboard because it's impossible to play with a mouse. I played gothic 2 with a mouse and keyboard because that's how it was meant to be.

But you didn't beat it with your dick.

 

[sullynathan]

toro typical gothic fag giving credit to gothic where it isn't due. Pretty much every action game has what, you mentioned. Why do you keep acting like they don't or like if gothic did it better? Within the early 2000s that gothic came out, you had devil may cry, ninja gaiden black, blade of darkness, god of war and whatever other shit that came out that played better. It also goes back to console having better action games.
Gothic 2's combat wasn't as bad. Gothic 3's is the one I would have really liked if it was tweaked more. It had more mechanics than the first 2 and more skills and movesets.

The combat is clunky shit that requires low level skill. Still a good game though and one of the few in which I excuse the poor combat.

Yep. Shit taste.

It's to your credit you play older games but get serious. Gothic was designed for keyboard only. Think about that.

I beat Gothic 1 with keyboard because it's impossible to play with a mouse. I played gothic 2 with a mouse and keyboard because that's how it was meant to be.

But you didn't beat it with your dick.

I've beat Gothic 1 & 2 with the night of the raven expansion twice each. Beat gothic 3 once. Something like ninja gaiden while being hack and slash needed more skill than all gothic games combined.

 

[toro]

toro typical gothic fag giving credit to gothic where it isn't due. Pretty much every action game has what, you mentioned. Why do you keep acting like they don't or like if gothic did it better? Within the early 2000s that gothic came out, you had devil may cry, ninja gaiden black, blade of darkness, god of war and whatever other shit that came out that played better. It also goes back to console having better action games.
Gothic 2's combat wasn't as bad. Gothic 3's is the one I would have really liked if it was tweaked more. It had more mechanics than the first 2 and more skills and movesets.

The combat is clunky shit that requires low level skill. Still a good game though and one of the few in which I excuse the poor combat.

Yep. Shit taste.

It's to your credit you play older games but get serious. Gothic was designed for keyboard only. Think about that.

I beat Gothic 1 with keyboard because it's impossible to play with a mouse. I played gothic 2 with a mouse and keyboard because that's how it was meant to be.

But you didn't beat it with your dick.

I've beat Gothic 1 & 2 with the night of the raven expansion twice each. Beat gothic 3 once. Something like ninja gaiden while being hack and slash needed more skill than all gothic games combined.

Of course they do: they were pure-action games while Gothic is a RPG. That's why your original comparison is and was retarded.

Also you still have like 5 play-throughs remaining until your opinion about terrible combat matters.

 

[sullynathan]

Of course they do: they were pure-action games while Gothic is a RPG. That's why your original comparison is and was retarded.

this is a classic excuse for bad combat. Prince of persia wasn't more of an action game than Gothic yet had more fun combat than G1 & G2.

 

[toro]

Of course they do: they were pure-action games while Gothic is a RPG. That's why your original comparison is and was retarded.

this is a classic excuse for bad combat. Prince of persia wasn't more of an action game than Gothic yet had more fun combat than G1 & G2.

Jesus. Give me strength.

 

[Multidirectional]

Prince of persia wasn't more of an action game than Gothic yet had more fun combat than G1 & G2.

This fucking guy.

 

[sullynathan]

you should stop fooling youself, combat in Gothic is bad. Arguing otherwise is a failure on your part.

 

[Momock]

Serious question for people who thinks that Gothic combat is good: what is good about it?

 

[sullynathan]

Serious question for people who thinks that Gothic combat is good: what is good about it?

same bullshit about blocking, strafing, dodging, combos and blah blah bah. Stuff that every other action game and action rpg has and they did better. Gothic didn't even has shields till the third game, and the first game had the ridiculous left + right swing combo that stun locked most enemies and they couldn't block or dodge from.

 

[Perkel]

I never understood criticism for Gothic1/2 combat.
Yes it was weird control scheme but at the time and frankly still is fun to play once you get gist of it.

It was fucking refreshing thing to play action rpg in which you need to actually learn how to properly fight. Not only spacing and moveset was crucial but also you actually could learn new tricks.

Combat thanks to this weird controll scheme felt really good and you felt really good when you were able to deal with hard enemy. Hell even first few birds felt awesome to kill once you get hang of combat.

Gothic combat also was really balanced for most of the game. There always was monster that could fuck you up and you should run away like little bitch when you meet it.

Hell i don't even remember RPG aside from gothic where i really had to watch surrounding and stay to path because if i would go outside of path into deep wood i could meet something that could trample me in seconds.

Dragon's Dogma kind of had it but combat was to easy for those monsters so you never actually felt that you can really fuck up going out of path or going back in night.

 

[sullynathan]

Gothic combat also was really balanced for most of the game. There always was monster that could fuck you up and you should run away like little bitch when you meet it.

That had less to do with the mechanics and more to do with lack of level scaling, which is good but it didn't mean the actual combat mechanics aged well.

Gothic's combat really isn't fun but the quests and exploration are.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Dragon's Dogma kind of had it but combat was to easy for those monsters so you never actually felt that you can really fuck up going out of path or going back in night.

Dragon's Dogma is as hard as Gothic if you play a new character on nightmare. Its difficulty feels more organic too, unlike Gothic where the difference between beating a monster for hours on end to no effect and steam rolling it can be one measly level up.

 

[Momock]

Gothic's combat really isn't fun but the quests and exploration are.

Indeed. Like in every memorable RPG.

 

[deuxhero]

Temple of Elemental Evil and Blackguards are plenty memorable.

 

[Momock]

Blackguards is a TRPG. ToEE is unbearable garbage.

Unless you consider Dark Souls like a RPG (I don't), my sentence was perfectly correct.

 

[deuxhero]

A tRPG is an RPG and ToEE is great.

 

[Hyperion]

ToEE is unbearable garbage.

Potentially unbearable with the numerous, gamebreaking bugs it contained on release, but a major diamond in the rough, so to speak. Circle of Eight, or more recently, Temple+ made it top tier for turn-based RPGs.

 

[nomask7]

Serious question for people who thinks that Gothic combat is good: what is good about it?

Let's talk about Gothic 2 Gold.

1) No button smashing in any sense of the word. If you want to do a combo of three strikes, you have to press a button three times at correct times or the combo will fail.

2) You can't dodge in the middle of striking with your sword. Games that allow it very easily end up being popamole.

3) No need to memorise button combos, so the game is easy to start and easy to get back to after years, yet combat is relatively hard to master. And you master it by playing the game, not by practising or memorising nonsense. This gives a nice sense of progression and feeling of achievement and weight to the system.

4) You can't easily heal while fighting.

5) Monster AI and fighting in general feels relatively good and relatively challenging.

6) As your character gets better, the combo changes, and you have to relearn fighting to some extent, keeping it fresh and also creating a sense of progression and variety.

You're right that the swing exploit - when you're not using the primary attack but the swing attack - is cheesy. But then again you're not obligated to use it.

 

[sullynathan]

No need to memorise button combos, so the game is easy to start and easy to get back to after years, yet combat is relatively hard to master. And you master it by playing the game, not by practising or memorising nonsense. This gives a nice sense of progression and feeling of achievement and weight to the system.

Combat in Gothic is easy to master, its just that again, there is no level scaling so you will constantly run into enemies stronger than you so you wait to level up and get better gear then come back and beat every enemy. When you reach certain locations in the game, there are a lot of enemies to go against. There is a quick heal, you just have to turn it on.

As your character gets better, the combo changes, and you have to relearn fighting to some extent, keeping it fresh and also creating a sense of progression and variety.

Combo didn't change, if I remember correctly, it stayed the same with different animations with less time delay.

You can't dodge in the middle of striking with your sword. Games that allow it very easily end up being popamole.

"Popamole" action games ended up being more challenging, with more functional and fun combat. Funny how that happened. On another note, games that have non-popamole combat like Gothic and Severance end up being easily exploitable and having one way that the devs kinda push you to play. They also end up being easier than popamole action games.

No need to memorise button combos, so the game is easy to start and easy to get back to after years, yet combat is relatively hard to master. And you master it by playing the game, not by practising or memorising nonsense. This gives a nice sense of progression and feeling of achievement and weight to the system.

You still had to practice a combo anyway or else you would die the first time you failed, lets ve serious here, there was a very small amount of combos in G2 anyway. It's not like you needed to use them anyway.

Monster AI and fighting in general feels relatively good and relatively challenging.

In comparison to morrowind or Gothic 1 it feels good. Fighting those shitty goblins certain didn't feel good. The dragon boss fights were also pretty bad too, they were glitched to hell and were night-impossible as a warrior.