From Software Dark Souls 3

[nomask7]

Combat in Gothic is easy to master, its just that again, there is no level scaling so you will constantly run into enemies stronger than you so you wait to level up and get better gear then come back and beat every enemy. When you reach certain locations in the game, there are a lot of enemies to go against. There is a quick heal, you just have to turn it on.


Combo didn't change, if I remember correctly, it stayed the same with different animations with less time delay.


"Popamole" action games ended up being more challenging, with more functional and fun combat. Funny how that happened. On another note, games that have non-popamole combat like Gothic and Severance end up being easily exploitable and having one way that the devs kinda push you to play. They also end up being easier than popamole action games.


You still had to practice a combo anyway or else you would die the first time you failed, lets ve serious here, there was a very small amount of combos in G2 anyway. It's not like you needed to use them anyway.


In comparison to morrowind or Gothic 1 it feels good. Fighting those shitty goblins certain didn't feel good. The dragon boss fights were also pretty bad too, they were glitched to hell and were night-impossible as a warrior.

In other words:

1) You don't know the game well.

2) You prefer popamole combat.

Guy asked for reasons why people like Gothic combat, I gave him reasons. You don't have to share my preferences. Come to think of it, you probably shouldn't spend your time arguing about a game when you can't tell the difference between that game and your ass. None of your points make any sense or have any validity except when they boil down to "muh opinion".

 

[Ivan]

I had great fun with Gothic combat, particularly at early levels. Similar to fighting Dark Knights in DS1 withotu the OP parry.

 

[sullynathan]

1) You don't know the game well.

2) You prefer popamole combat.

Guy asked for reasons why people like Gothic combat, I gave him reasons. You don't have to share my preferences. Come to think of it, you probably shouldn't spend your time arguing about a game when you can't tell the difference between that game and your ass. None of your points make any sense or have any validity except when they boil down to "muh opinion".

Gothic 2 is one of my favorite games and I know the combat is crap therefore my opinion is greater than yours.

 

[Haplo]

Serious question for people who thinks that Gothic combat is good: what is good about it?

1. Sense of progression and development. It's the only game series I'm aware of, where you start with clunky, slow, awkward swings, like you don't even know how to properly grab the sword and progressively improve, making your swings more fluid and being able to combo-chain hits. I can't remember other games which have different combat animations depending on skill level. And it really added to the game.

2. Enemy diversity and AI. Really, there's a huge difference facing various enemies. Like the small goblins using horde tactics to surround you and keep running around you, attacking from all dimensions and angles. Snappers charging you (still fear them), huge, slow trolls you'd run around, keeping to their backs. You really had to adjust your tactics facing various enemies. I don't think even Dark Souls can quite match this.

3. Rhytm based fighting, you have to time your blocks and attacks.

Dark Souls is a bit different beast, but I sure wish more games copied the Gothic combat. Witcher 2 & 3 come to mind, where combat is inferior, IMO.

 

[HoboForEternity]

"Popamole" action games ended up being more challenging, with more functional and fun combat. Funny how that happened. On another note, games that have non-popamole combat like Gothic and Severance end up being easily exploitable and having one way that the devs kinda push you to play. They also end up being easier than popamole action games.

 

[Rolk's Drifter]

Serious question for people who thinks that Gothic combat is good: what is good about it?

Because it let's me be a wizard Harry. Can you be a wizard in Ninja Gaiden? No? Fuck off then.

I beat Gothic 1 with keyboard because it's impossible to play with a mouse. I played gothic 2 with a mouse and keyboard because that's how it was meant to be.

Gothic was designed for keyboard only. Think about that.

My bad. Won't happen again.

No, I never died to it, but it's still a bullshit gimmick. Check out EpicNameBro's commentary on that.... 'mechanic'. It's there simply to make the fight difficult for the sake of difficulty. You won't be finding that kind of shit in the other games. Though, I didn't get the chance to play Demon's Souls and I'm only on the earlier part of Dark Souls 3, so I wouldn't know if there's anything like that.

How the fuck did you even come to that conclusion? Because I liked Gehrman and Maria bossfight? Here's the catch, bro. I liked most of bossfights in Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne. Like I said, I'm still on the earlier part of Dark Souls 3 so I can't really comment about the bosses, but Dark Souls 2? There's just WAY too much humanoid bosses, it's boring. Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne had enough variety of bosses to keep it interesting, and from there I know they're pretty creative when it comes to bosses and could easily picks up my fav.

I gotta admit, I liked Raime because he's supposedly a successor to Artorias. But, looking back, the way the game was made, the animation, the frames, nearly everything, it just doesn't feel right. There's no way I would play through all that shit ever again. Meanwhile, I could easily get back to Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne, and if only I have it or if it gets remastered for PS4, Demon's Souls.

I don't even the first paragraph. What does 'making the fight difficult for the sake of difficulty' mean?

2 reasons I came to that conclusion:

1) Everybody's favourite bosses are humanoid.
2) When given the chance to select any of the bosses, you chose humanoids.

Are you going to honestly tell me your favourite bosses aren't humanoid?

I don't disagree that DS2 would have been better with more variety but the discussion was about Smelter in particular, not DS2 as a whole.

 

[Momock]

As your character gets better, the combo changes, and you have to relearn fighting to some extent, keeping it fresh and also creating a sense of progression and variety.

Sense of progression and development. It's the only game series I'm aware of, where you start with clunky, slow, awkward swings, like you don't even know how to properly grab the sword and progressively improve, making your swings more fluid and being able to combo-chain hits. I can't remember other games which have different combat animations depending on skill level. And it really added to the game.

Yeah, that part was awesome and needs to be done in every ARPG.

For the rest... in theory I agree with everything you said, but in practice... it's shit. I think the main problem are the animations, the enemies are unreadable and the PC is way to rigid, the sword traverse the enemies who aren't locked like if they were ghosts and the feedback is terrible. Finaly I just swing the sword from left to right hoping to hit them first, and that's it. Risen made a better job to put into practice the theory, but it's still clunky and the hitboxes are still weird sometimes.

 

[KlauZ]

When Gothicfags say that it has good combat they mean it's better than morrowind's

Circle of Eight, or more recently, Temple+ made it top tier for turn-based RPGs.

Funny thing, vanilla version is the only one I could play from start to finish, both Co8 and Temple runs end up with game-ruining bugs.

 

[Haplo]

Well, to be precise it's also miles ahead of Oblivion, Skyrim and most other aRPG games, short of Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma.

 

[cvv]

Risen made a better job to put into practice the theory, but it's still clunky and the hitboxes are still weird sometimes.

Risen has indeed better combat than all the Gothics combined. Only it's not clunky and the hitboxes are fine.

 

[Haplo]

I've felt more like Risen's combat was two steps forward, two steps backwards.

 

[Declinator]

2) You can't dodge in the middle of striking with your sword. Games that allow it very easily end up being popamole.

Popamole? I'm not even sure what you mean with popamole here. Is it supposed to mean decline or what? Popamole means sticky cover shooting ala Gears of War.
Anyway, generally speaking action cancelling, as far as I know, is considered a rather feature in the action game genre. In fact isn't it one of DMC3's claims to fame? I'm not personally a big fan though I can't claim I didn't have fun with it in God Hand.

 

[Alienman]

I've felt more like Risen's combat was two steps forward, two steps backwards.

In what way?

 

[sullynathan]

Less gothic talk, more dork souls

 

[Perkel]

Ashen Ones,

Dark Souls III will be updated to version 1.08 on Friday, October 21st. During the maintenance, the online mode will be unavailable at the timings below:

JST - 2016-10-21: 17:00—19:00
PDT - 2016-10-21: 01:00—03:00
CEST - 2016-10-21: 10:00—12:00

Please find below the changes included in this update:

• Adjusted poise values across the board. Poise is now more effective for heavier weapons and armor.
• Improved regular attack animations of hammer category weapons.
• Improved regular attack animations of greatsword category weapons.
• Improved regular attack animations of axe category weapons.
• Improved regular attack animations of fist category weapons.
• Improved the "Neck Swipe" weapon skill animation of scythe category weapons.
• Fixed a bug where strong attacks performed using whips would not deal additional ・damage when fully charged.
• Fixed a bug where strong attacks performed using the Pickaxe would consume stamina multiple times per attack.
• Adjusted the "Onislayer" weapon skill hitbox timings for Onikiri and Ubadachi.
• Adjusted the hitbox timings of the claw category weapon skill "Leaping Slash".
• Fixed a bug where rolling attacks on Astora's Greatsword could not be parried.
• Improved the "Wrath of the Gods" weapon skill animation for Wornir's Holy Sword.
• Improved the "Blind Spot" weapon skill animation for Corvian Greatknife and Handmaiden's Dagger.
• Improved the "Shield Splitter" weapon skill animation for Mail Breaker and Irithyll Rapier.
• Improved the "Wolf Leap" weapon skill animation for Old Wolf Curved Sword.
• The weapon skill of Old King's Great Hammer "Molten Perseverence" will now release lava on both hits.
• Improved the "Darkdrift" weapon skill animation for Darkdrift.
• Reduced effectiveness of rolling attack animations on Gotthard Twinswords while dual wielding.
• Increased effectiveness of the sorcery "Pestilent Mercury".
• Improved the cast animation of miracle "Lifehunt Scythe".
• Increased poison and toxic buildup of the pyromancies "Poison Mist" and "Toxis Mist", respectively.
• Increased durability damage buildup of the pyromancy "Acid Surge".
• Increased duration of the "Warcry" weapon skill.
• Fixed a bug where the player's lock-on target would automatically change even if "Toggle auto lock-on" was set to "OFF".
• Fixed a bug where the leader board for Darkmoon Knights would display incorrect statistics.
• Fixed a bug where the fog wall near Holy Knight Hodrick would sometimes not disappear during multiplayer even after defeating him.
• Fixed a bug where Orbeck of Vinheim would sometimes die before the player purchased all his spells.
• Fixed a bug where Patches and Greirat would never return if sent to steal after defeating all bosses.
• Fixed a bug where female characters were subject to counter damage during certain movement animations.
• Fixed a bug where equipping Vordt's Great Hammer or Irithyll Straight Sword in the left hand would cause enchantments to disappear from weapons in the right hand.
• Fixed a bug where two-handing certain weapons would cause the stealth effect on Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring to not work correctly.
• Fixed a bug where Hornet Ring was not working for claw category weapons.
• Fixed a bug where dash attacks could not be performed using Farron Greatsword.
• Fixed a bug where strong attacks using Lothric Knight Sword were not dealing thrust type damage.
• Fixed a bug where dash attacks using Onikiri and Ubadachi were not dealing thrust type damage.
• Addressed other game balance issues and fixed other flaws.

Incoming 20pages and 100s of reddit threads on new poise with people claiming it works and it doesn't work at same time.

 

[Murk]

I really hate when they say they "improve" an animation with no inclination of whether that means speed up, slow down, or keep same pace but make it look "nicer."

Also, hype meter is at 5%. Not feeling the magic, will probably dick around in DLC but if it turns out it was cancelled and my money was refunded, I wouldn't mind either way.

 

[nomask7]

Anyway, generally speaking action cancelling, as far as I know, is considered a rather feature in the action game genre. In fact isn't it one of DMC3's claims to fame?

Dark Souls doesn't have action cancelling. Gothic 2 doesn't have action cancelling. See the pattern? These are monocled combat systems with a relatively slow tempo where you can and need to think about what you're doing and how the monster AI behaves.

Action cancelling means you can dodge whenever you want. If you haven't noticed how this results in shallow fast-paced gameplay, then it's not worth trying to explain it to you.

 

[sullynathan]

Action cancelling means you can dodge whenever you want. If you haven't noticed how this results in shallow fast-paced gameplay, then it's not worth trying to explain it to you.

ninja gaiden has action cancelling while being a far more functioning and challenging game than both gothic and dark souls

 

[sullynathan]

Butthurt people waste their rating privileges because they have wrong opinions. DarkUnderlord should have never let you on this website

 

[nomask7]

Butthurt people waste their rating privileges because they have wrong opinions. DarkUnderlord should have never let you on this website

If you had given reasons for why Ninja Gaiden combat is better, I mean some actual concrete detail, I would probably have taken you seriously enough to respond. Judging from your previous performance though, you're just some popamole twitch combat retard who is not worth reading let alone arguing with.

 

[toro]

Anyway, generally speaking action cancelling, as far as I know, is considered a rather feature in the action game genre. In fact isn't it one of DMC3's claims to fame?

Dark Souls doesn't have action cancelling. Gothic 2 doesn't have action cancelling. See the pattern? These are monocled combat systems with a relatively slow tempo where you can and need to think about what you're doing and how the monster AI behaves.

Action cancelling means you can dodge whenever you want. If you haven't noticed how this results in shallow fast-paced gameplay, then it's not worth trying to explain it to you.

Don't waste your time and neurons. The guy knows better.

 

[Matador]

If you had given reasons for why Ninja Gaiden combat is better, I mean some actual concrete detail, I would probably have taken you seriously enough to respond. Judging from your previous performance though, you're just some popamole twitch combat retard who is not worth reading let alone arguing with.

If you think Ninja Gaiden combat, and action cancel mechanics are popamole, you are the real popamole guy.

Ninja Gaiden has fast, great and responsive tactical combat.

You control a fast and powerful character with a lot of options to deal with the ganking squads of enemies. Without this power the game would be unfair and unfun because these dangerous encounters. I love the intensity and chaos of these encounters, and it feels great to overcome them with your overpowered Ninja.

Dark souls is different, you control a less powerful character with less options unless you use magic (but is the game easy mode), but the encounters are not so crazy as in Ninja Gaiden, so it is still fun and fair to fight smaller amount of enemies at the same time. This is the reason why some of the gank encounters in DS2 and DS3 don't fit well in these games, in my opinion.

 

[nomask7]

If you think Ninja Gaiden combat, and action cancel mechanics are popamole, you are the real popamole guy.

Ninja Gaiden has fast, great and responsive tactical combat.

You control a fast and powerful character with a lot of options to deal with the ganking squads of enemies. Without this power the game would be unfair and unfun because these dangerous encounters. I love the intensity and chaos of these encounters, and it feels great to overcome them with your overpowered Ninja.

Dark souls is different, you control a less powerful character with less options unless you use magic (but is the game easy mode), but the encounters are not so crazy as in Ninja Gaiden, so it is still fun and fair to fight smaller amount of enemies at the same time. This is the reason why some of the gank encounters in DS2 and DS3 don't fit well in these games, in my opinion.

So, Ninja Gaiden in your opinion made the gameplay better by:

1) Giving you a great number of button combos to memorise.
2) Making combat more chaotic / unpredictable.

You may have realised both of these solutions lack elegance.

Number (1) easily leads to redundancy, which is always a cheesy way to add complexity. And even if you have a great number of non-redundant combos, with each having their unique use without overlap or redundancy, the gameplay would merely revolve around recalling and executing the right combo at the right time. That would be about as far from graceful and immersive combat as a system can be. Some people don't have a sense for aesthetics and elegance so they spend a lot of time playing games like Street Fighter and other autistic Jap crap. It takes great skill but it's no more monocled than any other e-sport. EDIT: Sorry, Street Fighter is actually elegant. Poor choice of example.

As for (2), systemic unpredictability, it's actually something that works better in Dark Souls where you can't negate its effects via twitch reactions usually boiling down to insta-dodge. In twitch games with insta-dodge, if you fail, it's because you had a lapse of attention of a fraction of a second. It's a kind of endurance test for your attention span, which can become an epic test indeed in games as boring as DMC that have relatively long and repetitive fights.

Even to the extent that a chaotic system works in such a game, the result is simply replacing player skill with randomness masquerading as challenge.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Gothic has shit combat for simple reason that spamming fast attacks is more effective than doing combos.

 

[nomask7]

Gothic has shit combat for simple reason that spamming fast attacks is more effective than doing combos.

It's an exploit. I don't even know why people use the secondary attack buttons. They shouldn't even be in the game (just like magic and archery are bullshit they seem to have tacked on for marketing reasons).