Dark Sun: Shattered Lands is fucking great

[Darth Canoli]

Well, that explains it then, thanks.

Also, reading gog forums, i feel like i should have taken metabolism path for the gladiator.

I'm wondering if i shouldn't restart with an optimised party now i know the ropes.
A tri-kreen warrior/thief would do wonders and i could dual the mage ranger, cleric or druid (or tri-class mage/ranger/druid) + tri-kreen psionic and a half giant gladiator (this one is too good)

 

[Sceptic]

I guess i can't pick another class now

You could dual-class if they're human
It does help to read the manual, the level cap and how multiclassing works is detailed there

Something else, i realized i didn't pay attention to characters alignments and as a result, they're all True neutral ...
I hope it's not a problem, is it ?

Alignment does absolutely nothing past character creation, and the only thing it does there is that some classes can only be some alignments.

Is it normal for psionicists to get only 1 point for psionic powers on levelup from level 6 onwards? Until level 6 I always got 2 points to spend on psionic powers on levelup but now when my mul fighter/thief/psionicist reached level 6 as psionicist, I only get 1 point.

Different levels give 1 or 2, it's not random, it's set depending on the level, but yeah working as intended. There are many psionic bracelets in the game (many you can purchase) and they work somewhat like Preserver scrolls, they teach you the power if you don't have it, or they level it up if you do. I'm never really sure what the level of a psi power does, some clearly don't improve in any way, if others do I never really could figure out how.

Tried to kill the templar and his henchmen around the oasis, those morons wouldn't move and just shot eveyone but the gladiator to death, now, there's 3 waiting for me on the other side of the oasis and the gladiator has 3 leftover hp ...
Reload time, it seems.

There are other ways of dealing with the oasis templar
Like I mentioned previously, SL has tons of alternate solutions for almost every quest. I don't think we truly realized how exceptional that was when the game was new.

Also, either the gladiator has an insane amount of HP or multi-classing a warrior is a terrible move, the warrior/druid has half the gladiator's hp or so by now ^^'

As visions said Half-giants get double HP, and Gladiator gets the full 1d10 per level whereas multiclassed Fighters will always get less, so it's a monstrous combination for HP pool. But as for multiclassing, you're thinking in an inverted way: the point is to introduce the Fighter into everyone else's class so you can eliminate the class restrictions on armour and weapons.
I've played many parties with one half-giant gladiator and then multiclassing the other 3 in various combinations (always with Fighter in there though) to cover all my other needs. They're all very potent parties.

Also, reading gog forums, i feel like i should have taken metabolism path for the gladiator.

Psionic powers on non-Psionicists are pretty garbage so don't worry about it too much.

I'm wondering if i shouldn't restart with an optimised party now i know the ropes.
A tri-kreen warrior/thief would do wonders and i could dual the mage ranger, cleric or druid (or tri-class mage/ranger/druid) + tri-kreen psionic and a half giant gladiator (this one is too good)

Remember class restrictions if you're not multiclassing with a warrior, and remember the only 2 classes you REALLY need to not make the game stupid difficult is one Druid and one Preserver in one shape or the other. The game's not that hard and non-optimal parties will always work one way or the other as long as you have these 2 (and you can even make it work with just a cleric and no druid, though that's a bit harder). I'd say pick whatever you think is more fun and go with it, and don't be afraid to multiclass considering there's a level cap but no XP cap.

 

[luj1]

I'm wondering if i shouldn't restart with an optimised party now i know the ropes.

Don't take that paaaath!! (in Gandalf's voice)

 

[luj1]

As a side question, can someone explain why is multiclassing in this game = win?

Why not a pure Fighter Half-giant? Or pure Gladiator Thri-Kreen?

 

[visions]

Is it normal for psionicists to get only 1 point for psionic powers on levelup from level 6 onwards? Until level 6 I always got 2 points to spend on psionic powers on levelup but now when my mul fighter/thief/psionicist reached level 6 as psionicist, I only get 1 point.

Different levels give 1 or 2, it's not random, it's set depending on the level, but yeah working as intended. There are many psionic bracelets in the game (many you can purchase) and they work somewhat like Preserver scrolls, they teach you the power if you don't have it, or they level it up if you do. I'm never really sure what the level of a psi power does, some clearly don't improve in any way, if others do I never really could figure out how.

I get the impression that improving a psionic power on levelup improves its power score and thus makes it more likely to be activated succesfully. The number indicating probability of success (shown with the checkmark, next to the pp cost), which is initially based on your relevant stat (wis, con or int) goes up by 1 when you level up a power. Given that per the manual, the said number * 5% = probability of success, raising a psionic power's level by 1 should make it 5% more probable to be succesfully activated (with the caveat that rolling a 20 is always a failure, even if your power score is 20 or more).

 

[Sinatar]

As a side question, can someone explain why is multiclassing in this game = win?

Why not a pure Fighter Half-giant? Or pure Gladiator Thri-Kreen?

Because you'll hit the XP cap super early and there is no downside to multiclassing.

 

[Cael]

In the first game, multiclass is king. In the second, dual classing comes into its own. A Gladiator 14/Druid 14/Preserver 15 is pretty godly

 

[Darth Canoli]

It does help to read the manual, the level cap and how multiclassing works is detailed there

I just read the good parts, reading digital manuals is the least entertaining thing in the world (or i just miss paper manuals)

Dual classing isn't for me, not being able to use the first class until the next one catches up kills me.

Well, i restarted a party fast yesterday, finding out you could "max" the hp (what a nice touch )
Half-giant gladiator, Tri Kreen warrior / psionicist, elf ranger / preserver and HE druid / thief / warrior.

Would get rid of the thief part but it seems only him can access to certain areas (climbing for example ).

The die is cast ...

As for the oasis, i know there's other ways, talking with the templar alone, some opportunities showed up but i thought i wanted the loot and the hard way seemed more fun so i'll try it again sending a minor water elemental earlier and a smokescreen so they'd have to come to me instead of me chasing the guards while they shoot my party members like clay ducks.

 

[visions]

You can max all stats on char creation. I didn't do it though, seems kinda cheap imo.

 

[luj1]

In the first game, multiclass is king

Because you'll hit the XP cap super early

Thats it?

 

[CryptRat]

In the first game, multiclass is king

Because you'll hit the XP cap super early

Thats it?

Yes.

 

[Sceptic]

I just read the good parts, reading digital manuals is the least entertaining thing in the world (or i just miss paper manuals)

Totally with you on this. I do like the SL manual, but it’s nowhere near as good the gold box ones were.

Dual classing isn't for me, not being able to use the first class until the next one catches up kills me.

It’s why I prefer to multiclass as well.

Would get rid of the thief part but it seems only him can access to certain areas (climbing for example ).

There's only one real Thief-only area, in the sewers, and nothing too spectacular there, but I do like having one, and backstab is pretty powerful once you get it working right.

As for the oasis, i know there's other ways, talking with the templar alone, some opportunities showed up but i thought i wanted the loot and the hard way seemed more fun so i'll try it again sending a minor water elemental earlier and a smokescreen so they'd have to come to me instead of me chasing the guards while they shoot my party members like clay ducks.

Yeah killing them all is not a bad idea, it's the nice thing about the game, both the peaceful and the genocidal route tend to give different rewards and both are worth it. And of course sometimes you can get the extras from the peaceful reward then kill them anyway (it's actually the best way to escape the slave pens; get the gem for the spy, follow through until the templar tries to kill you near the fountain, kill him without alerting the guards, then escape through the secret passage. You'll get the massive XP bonus for not triggering the alarm AND the templar's magic weapon this way. And in this case you're not even exploiting the game, this is clearly the ideal way to complete this part of the game).

Thats it?

Because of negating all the class restrictions that I mentioned earlier, and because there's no real disadvantage to doing so. Why not get more for free?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Well, i've heard a npc telling the guy was a crook so i thought it was a smart move not to be conned.
First time, i escaped from the arena when fighting the other gladiator team (without talking about it before), second time, i took the cook/fountain path and murdered everyone (both times, i got boodwrath or something, the templar's sword)

In the oasis, i had the feeling they would leave if i went for a peaceful solution, well, i'm still in the sewers for now, not reading the cluebook until i'm done with an area, just to be sure i'm not missing something very special.

The UI is really good for a 1993's game and even the walking pace is really fast (or maybe that part comes from the emulation).

Also, best line so far :

- Have you come to worship Tekutitlay ?

- You worship that baboon ?

Gets me all the time, i feel compelled to pick that answer.

 

[Sceptic]

Well, i've heard a npc telling the guy was a crook so i thought it was a smart move not to be conned.
First time, i escaped from the arena when fighting the other gladiator team (without talking about it before), second time, i took the cook/fountain path and murdered everyone (both times, i got boodwrath or something, the templar's sword)

I didn't figure out the "best" way out until my Nth playthrough. You can technically use bits and pieces of this path by themselves - you can pick the lock on the door, go through the fountain area and then escape through the secret passage without triggering the alarm. The reason I call it the best path is because it both lets you get the extra XP from a silent escape AND Bloodwrath. I usually come back later (after Dagolar) to kill everyone and free the Trustee.

This is another thing the game didn't get enough recognition for on release: it's extremely reactive to how you solve quests. Come back to the pens and you see how things have changed (and get attacked on sight). Leave the sewers without helping the ratmen and you find they've all been slaughtered when you come back later. And so on.

In the oasis, i had the feeling they would leave if i went for a peaceful solution, well, i'm still in the sewers for now, not reading the cluebook until i'm done with an area, just to be sure i'm not missing something very special.

Good, the game's much more fun that way. I know it inside out at this point so if you want a hint but not an outright solution do ask.

The UI is really good for a 1993's game and even the walking pace is really fast (or maybe that part comes from the emulation).

Walking speed was like this even on a 486 back then, it looks a bit stupid but oh so convenient.
And yeah UI is excellent by any standard.

 

[visions]

Concerning the ratmen, were the ratmen of the south part of the sewers supposed to turn on you in the fight against the templar there? They turned against me and I had to kill them all, except for their leader (Churr or something). Not sure if this was supposed to happen or I accidentally hit one of them in that combat (cause they all look the same) and that turned them hostile.

Or maybe they turned against me because I stopped the sacrifice of the rival group's leader's daughter.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Thanks for the tips, couldn't free the trustee even after killing everyone, maybe you have to come back after escaping, i'll try it.

Killed Dagolar, that *********** was a pain, well, the 10 slimes, i mean, the guy don't survive the first round.
Had to switch the +1 weapons around, seems like they're immune to normal weapons, even fireball can't hit those things, that part was a pain, had to restart twice before i came up with that option.

Concerning the ratmen, were the ratmen of the south part of the sewers supposed to turn on you in the fight against the templar there? They turned against me and I had to kill them all, except for their leader (Churr or something). Not sure if this was supposed to happen or I accidentally hit one of them in that combat (cause they all look the same) and that turned them hostile.

Or maybe they turned against me because I stopped the sacrifice of the rival group's leader's daughter.

Probably a bug.
Had the same problem on my first try except they turned on me when i attacked the "priest" they asked me to kill (or so i thought), second time, i went straight to the skulls guy and saved the girl, when i came back to the first group, they were as happy as pigs in muck.

Well, i had another bug, i talked to the chief before his daughter arrives (she died in the assault first try so i didn't wait) and he considers she died after the battle while she's not far from the camping spot ... ^^'

 

[ShaggyMoose]

For those like me who just went to buy this, you need to look for "Dark Sun" on GoG. I was searching for "Shattered Lands", "Darksun" etc. and nothing came up...

I almost bought this game 20 years ago, but skipped it due to some comments that it was too buggy...

 

[Darth Canoli]

ShaggyMoose there certainly is some issues but it mostly comes from not waiting for NPC scripts (just them moving or following you) as far as i know.

Well now, you got 2 games for the price of one.

 

[Sceptic]

Thanks for the tips, couldn't free the trustee even after killing everyone, maybe you have to come back after escaping, i'll try it.

You can only do that when you come back after escaping. I think the dialogue with some of the other NPCs (like the other gladiators) is a bit broken.

Killed Dagolar, that *********** was a pain, well, the 10 slimes, i mean, the guy don't survive the first round.
Had to switch the +1 weapons around, seems like they're immune to normal weapons, even fireball can't hit those things, that part was a pain, had to restart twice before i came up with that option.

Dagolar Slimes are a bit of a pain... unless you have a Psionicist and notice what one of the powers does

Spoiler

Synaptic Static blocks ALL psi powers from working, yours and the enemies'. If you multiclassed your Psionicist you don't care because you can still use him for other things, but all enemy psionics are now nonexistent. It makes the Slimes fights, and the endgame, MUCH easier.

Probably a bug.
Had the same problem on my first try except they turned on me when i attacked the "priest" they asked me to kill (or so i thought), second time, i went straight to the skulls guy and saved the girl, when i came back to the first group, they were as happy as pigs in muck.
Well, i had another bug, i talked to the chief before his daughter arrives (she died in the assault first try so i didn't wait) and he considers she died after the battle while she's not far from the camping spot ... ^^'

Did I mention the game is veeeeeeeeeeery buggy?
Be sure to use the latest patch (1.2, not the same patch for floppy and CD versions), but even with that lots of small and serious problems remain, which is unfortunate because the game is so damn good otherwise.
There was yet another bug with the endgame prepatch: the fight would start fine, you'd win... and then the game would crash during the endgame cinematic, preventing you from saving your party for the sequel (so you lose out on all the endgame fat loot). Fortunately the patch does fix this (and others).

 

[Darth Canoli]

I didn't think i could block slimes abilities, usually, monsters have skills unrelated to magic or anything so i don't have this reflex, besides, sounded more like magic when they webbed everyone.

I've met my first "armor eater", are magic armors destroyed as well ?

Also, another bug with the Masteryal trainer.

Spoiler

When i come back after buying his beast (i knew i couldn't keep it, was too good to be true but i tried anyway) and it escaping, he leaves but get stuck by the alchemist's hills, poor thing, i hope this doesn't block anything later ?

I'm not afraid of bugs, i played Grotesque Tactics 2 and finished it twice at least.
Although i couldn't get far in the first one ...

Well, patch 1.2 ? you mean 1.1 ? i didn't think patching was still necessary.

 

[Sceptic]

I didn't think i could block slimes abilities, usually, monsters have skills unrelated to magic or anything so i don't have this reflex, besides, sounded more like magic when they webbed everyone.

Everything the Dagolar Slimes do other than their basic melee is a psionic ability (including the web). The thing you have to understand about Synaptic Static is that it doesn't block in the way the defensive abilities (like Intellect Fortress) do - it simply makes it impossible for anyone to cast any psi ability until the duration runs out (or you manually cancel it). That's why it's so powerful, there's no defense against it, it's literally a "do you want psi abilities to be available in the game yes/no?" toggle.

I've met my first "armor eater", are magic armors destroyed as well ?

I think the ease with which they can eat armour depends on the material (metal is more resistant), at least that's how it should be in Dark Sun P&P, I don't know how well that's implemented in the games. Getting my armour eaten is reload time for me - armour pieces are the single rarest commodity in the game. Once you recognize the monsters though and learn to prioritize them it's very possible to never lose anything - remember also that, more than in the Gold Box games, the control spells (Web, Solid Fog, Wall of Force, Rainbow Pattern, and the Telepathic abilities) are VERY useful in fights that take place over large distances. It's one thing I really like about the game, there's no "combat area" - the entire map could be one, and it makes for very different tactics from the usual CRPGs.

Also, another bug with the Masteryal trainer.

I think the whole business with that trainer is a red herring, so I don't think this will interfere with anything else. The trainer has a whistle that recalls the beast so he can basically resell it to another poor shmuck. I could never find anything to do after this other than attack and kill both of them, so I don't bother (though this also means the bag of salt is completely useless too... I always feel there are so many things I'm missing in this game, between this, the Sword Blank, the Grand Spire in the Ssuran ruins to the east... even the hintbook has nothing to say about them, always wondered if this was all cut content)

Well, patch 1.2 ? you mean 1.1 ? i didn't think patching was still necessary.

Yeah sorry meant 1.1

 

[glass blackbird]

Dark Sun is fantastic but I never played Mark of the Ravager. Seems like from what I've read about it, I made the right choice

 

[Dorateen]

Dark Sun is fantastic but I never played Mark of the Ravager.

Wake of the Ravager on the other hand, is a pretty fun sequel.

 

[Sceptic]

Ravager is not bad, just not as good IMO. For some reason it's graphically butt-ugly, much uglier than SL, and even buggier (and the bugs can be pretty serious). The plot is as cliche as it gets: "kill Foozle" plot with a "pick up sticks" subplots, and the sticks being the 4 seals of (come on, all together now) Air Earth Fire Water. It's a lot more combat heavy and doesn't have as many multiple ways of solving as SL did. It's still a fun game despite the flaws. Some of the individual segments, such as investigating the murder, or confronting you-know-who in the jungle temple, are definitely great moments.

 

[visions]

Is it a good idea to import your Shattered Lands party? I read that this will make enemies have double HP, I wonder how annoying that would be. HP bloat is generally a pretty annoying way to increase difficulty.