KickStarter Dead State: Reanimated

[Forest Dweller]

Didn't someone mention that there can be raping sprees going on at the shelter? So other characters get to do it, but you don't? That's fucked up.

 

[Perkel]

It's about using fucking common sense and our history. People didn't join in groups because they wanted it. They joined in groups because they fucking were forced as there were no other ways to live.

No.

Humans are apes, we are social creatures to the point social interaction is a need ... social groups didnt happened because sentience, they happened because there was a clear line of evolution that dictated such behavior, a lot of animals also are social creatures outside apes and their behavior is not caused by intelligence but engrained behavior.

The point I tried to make is that if order ceased we suddenly dont degenerate to murderous cannibalism rapists or such idiocy that usually comes in survival stories, the lack of control may allow some individuals to simply act on their anti-social behavior and like we did millennia ago we just murder the motherfucker, humans ARE aggressive but also pack creatures, just because centralized government ceases to exist will not change that, its not "the man" that forces the "law" into society ... what society we have is the result of millennia of social evolution, not something forced unto humans.

Also we have countries with no armies, even if they are small armies are not required to enforce law (as you fuckwits Americans keep proving its a general bad idea), that is the POLICE job ... even a fucking militia is a ORGANIZED force, a mob is not but even a mob just highlights human behavior into iinstinctively banding into a common goal and a mob doesnt think, it just reacts.

You arent a special snowflake, if you think you are "above" the rest of us because "you think" ... then you are not human, we might be sentient but we also have instinctual behavior that will get the best of us no matter how hard one think he can hold unto "reasoning", if you see a crowd running away your instinct will be to follow them , not because its smart but simply because its what everyone is doing.

Lol. Yes. "Milenia of social evolution". Try to remove police force. It is unthinkable to any country even sweden. Because everyone knows no one will be safe then. People would then gather in groups and try to fuck other people (so called organized crime) and without police force they would only grow and grow.

Take for example Mexico. Country like any other and yet there is now there almost civil war were thousands of people die yearly.

I am no special snowflake. Problem is that you don't have proof that in case of sudden goverment failure (ruling power keeping things in check) people will be working together and will not screw each other out and i have almost any conflict or disaster that happened to prove it is oxymoron like i said.

Take a look at africa where sometimes govs menage to fail and see how bandits walking from one village to another village to pillage and rape is not really rare. That is your "social evolution" for you. Nothing changed since stone age. In case of lack of power keeping things in check people will use each mean necessary to have better position than someone else. So goody goody people are just weakest members or that world.

 

[Lhynn]

Davis building a watch tower and fixing a fence better than the rest of the members of the shelter actually broke my suspension of disbelief. Ah well.

i find that incredibly funny. seriously, the dead coming back from the grave didn't, the acoustic guitars weighting almost as much as heavy duty sewing machines didn't, the turn based combat (which is completely bonkers as far as suspension of disbelief goes) didn't, but the guy in the wheelchair being slightly more useful than a brick did.

How come? You do know thats not how suspension of disbelief works, right? it is entirely possible to accept dragons and magical rings, but not unbreakable wooden doors.

 

[Morkar Left]

Some people are shunning Deadstate because there is no rape in it? Interesting...

 

[SuicideBunny]

How come? You do know thats not how suspension of disbelief works, right? it is entirely possible to accept dragons and magical rings, but not unbreakable wooden doors.

it's also entirely possible to accept guys in wheelchairs building stuff that would be outright or nearly impossible. i just find it funny that it was the thing that broke your disbelief, despite there being plenty of internally inconsistent or unrealistic (or both) things before you rest for the first time and get to assign jobs on board the next day.

as for dragons... a dragon explained with magic is acceptable, because magic (which includes magical nanites) is a wildcard. a dragon explained via science is only acceptable when the science is sound. it's the same for zombies.

 

[Roguey]

Remember all the rape scenes in the Romero films? Weird, me neither.

There was attempted rape in the original script to Day of the Dead.

DISSOLVE TO:


102 INT. THE GYMNASIUM - NIGHT


The room is empty now. Remnants of food and drink clutter the place. THE FAT GENERAL is asleep, snoring loudly, one of his pudgy arms is draped across MARY HENRIED’S lap. She is trying to move out from under without waking the man. She slides on the floor...a few inches...a few inches more. GASPARILLA snorts and rolls over. His eyes pop open, focus on MARY, and a smile pushes his fat cheeks back.


GASPARILLA

Well, hi there, y’all.


Mary looks down at the man, repulsed and afraid. Suddenly he grabs her LAB COAT. She pulls away and he crawls after her, his belly bouncing along the floor. BUTTONS POP and the coat falls open. He reaches for her blouse. It tears away and for a moment he gets a chubby handful of bare breast. He dives into her but he’s unconscious before his face reaches her chest.


MARY pulls herself out from under his dead weight. Shivering, she clutches her blouse together and hurries out of the room.

 

[Ovplain]

Hahaha, not only that, my PC is the one that does the abortion.

Found this 'mission' to be pretty weird as well.:S It really was annoying that I couldn't involve the dude more. Would've been cool if the dude just flipped his shit at the end and left the shelter or something.

Just found this:

Spoiler

=)

It has a basement filled with shotgun-wielding 'basement dwellers'.:D

 

[Gord]

I am no special snowflake. Problem is that you don't have proof that in case of sudden goverment failure (ruling power keeping things in check) people will be working together and will not screw each other out and i have almost any conflict or disaster that happened to prove it is oxymoron like i said.

Catastrophic and long-term failure of central government would most likely lead to something akin to Fallout - people organize with varying rate into small communities or tribes providing various amounts of protection and cooperation for mutual benefit. Of course aggressive parasitic groups ("Raiders") might form, but they are essentially the same, a colaborating group banding together for protection and a common goal (survival).
But even those small groups will already have certain rules people will have to follow, and breaking them will likely have consequences brought upon the offender.
From that eventually larger societies might form again, how fast probably depends on availabilty of ressources (again I think the general depiction in Fallout isn't that far off).
"Everyone on his own" is an unlikely state to exist for extended periods of time in a widespread fashion.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

Is there more to this game than looking for supplies to hoard every mission?

Also, I’d DEFINITELY like to clear up any thoughts about rape: YOU CAN NOT EVER, EVER, RECEIVE SEX AS PAYMENT OR THREATEN RAPE IN DEAD STATE

 

[Perkel]

I am no special snowflake. Problem is that you don't have proof that in case of sudden goverment failure (ruling power keeping things in check) people will be working together and will not screw each other out and i have almost any conflict or disaster that happened to prove it is oxymoron like i said.

Catastrophic and long-term failure of central government would most likely lead to something akin to Fallout - people organize with varying rate into small communities or tribes providing various amounts of protection and cooperation for mutual benefit. Of course aggressive parasitic groups ("Raiders") might form, but they are essentially the same, a colaborating group banding together for protection and a common goal (survival).
But even those small groups will already have certain rules people will have to follow, and breaking them will likely have consequences brought upon the offender.
From that eventually larger societies might form again, how fast probably depends on availabilty of ressources (again I think the general depiction in Fallout isn't that far off).
"Everyone on his own" is an unlikely state to exist for extended periods of time in a widespread fashion.

But we don't deal with extended period of time here. Hell extended period of time itself is vague therm as it is in reality time in which various powers clean up opposition so their people have peace time and they will now be wary of other similar sized factions as war would be mutaly bad for them (usually other party stepping in and swooping both parties at war).

 

[Perkel]

Is there more to this game than looking for supplies to hoard every mission?

Also, I’d DEFINITELY like to clear up any thoughts about rape: YOU CAN NOT EVER, EVER, RECEIVE SEX AS PAYMENT OR THREATEN RAPE IN DEAD STATE

Good tactical combat that isn't easy after 2 hours.

 

[kain30]

Elhoim i still didn´t finish this game but i´m curious. how many endings have this game?? counting game over and permutations if it have it.

 

[Toffeli]

I have played it now for a couple of hours. Somewhat enjoyed it so far, though the interface is somewhat unintuitive. Couple of questions. Are there means of healing yourself at the shelter besides resting? Renee has no options at dialogue at least. And what happens to the loot? Everyone moans about some special thing they are craving for. So I go on a trip, find those particular goods, come back, and the items are gone. They are not at the storage. I somehow manage to save one box of chocolates and gave them to the guard, but everything else has disappeared.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Elhoim i still didn´t finish this game but i´m curious. how many endings have this game?? counting game over and permutations if it have it.

there's at least three distinctly different endings, not counting game over.

 

[Lhynn]

it's also entirely possible to accept guys in wheelchairs building stuff that would be outright or nearly impossible.

No, its not, unless it is stated that there are different laws in that world that allow for a man in a wheelchair to move as freely as a man that doesnt need one. The world depicted on Dead State hasnt.

As for dragons... a dragon explained with magic is acceptable, because magic (which includes magical nanites) is a wildcard. a dragon explained via science is only acceptable when the science is sound. it's the same for zombies.

Its not sci fi, its survival. The natural disaster doesnt need to be explained in this genre, and its usually better if its not. After all the narrative is not about said natural disaster, its about people trying to overcome it in some way. The narrative just asks you to accept it at the start.

A dragon explained with magic in dead state 3 hours into the game would still make no fucking sense.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

So this game is all or mostly just combat? Eh.

 

[Perkel]

So this game is all or mostly just combat? Eh.

Depends on how you want to play and your expectations.

If you look for another Fallout then this is not this game. If you look at sort of game of thrones mash with gathering resources for survival then this is game for you.

As of combat. Like i said earlier game doesn't reward you for killing anyone and usually wasting meds to patch you up isn't worth the risk. So you can play like rambo and try to clean up map and leave no shelf untouched or just play it smart and battle only when you actually feel that it will be worthwhile.

One thing is true though. TB combat in this game is good and if you like TB combat then it is game for you.

 

[Perkel]

IMO biggest innovation gaming or tactical games should take from DS is its noise/"heat" system. After playing DS for a while it is really refreshing now that you can't go full rambo bringing rockets to knifefight.

JA2(new game?) with such a mod/ would really really really be amazing (though it would need to be a little more contextualized because people are not zombies).

I will pay 100$ for a game with JA2 style combat set in Fallout like world (with its quest design and such) that has noise like design in it + asynchro turn combat from DOS.

 

[Azrael the cat]

AoD is also extremely grog and cargo cult whereas Dead State is less so. Even less than Wasteland 2 apparently.

Roguey, please explain (and I actually mean this - not even trolling here, just genuinely confused) what the hell you actually mean by 'cargo cult' when applied to games? You use it all the time, and it even got me to wikipedia it to check that I didn't just have some weird made-up meaning of the term in my head (like my 6-year-old self, who upon reading the Wiz1 manual, thought that the 'ninja' class in the game - in my head, pronounced '9-ja' - was an entirely different entity to those cool asian characters the kids at school whose parents lacked tv-monitoring discipline called ninjas). Wikipedia describes it as: "the belief that various ritualistic acts will lead to a bestowing of material wealth", that combines charismatic figures, traditionalism and (most importantly) a belief that these things will bring an abundance of material goods. This mostly matches my prior understanding of the term, as referring to 'Jesus will make you win the stock market' evangelists and their historical equivalents.

So....what does the term have to do with games, good or bad?

 

[SuicideBunny]

No, its not, unless it is stated that there are different laws in that world that allow for a man in a wheelchair to move as freely as a man that doesnt need one. The world depicted on Dead State hasnt.

yes, it is. just like huge storefront windows that are unbreakable and cannot be entered through do not need to be explained separately, or you being unable to move ingame objects in order to block doors, despite several such barricades being present in the game doesn't. it's a matter of consistency. davis behaves just like other allies with the explicitly stated exception that he cannot go outside. of course it would be better if it was more lifelike in that regard, and he had individual time modifiers and conditions on an individual basis, but as i said, relatively huge amount of work for minor effect.

Its not sci fi, its survival. The natural disaster doesnt need to be explained in this genre, and its usually better if its not. After all the narrative is not about said natural disaster, its about people trying to overcome it in some way. The narrative just asks you to accept it at the start.

it tries to extrapolate the effects of stuff that seems somewhat possible on society at large, which is one of the more pristine flavors of sci-fi (unless you wrongly equate sci-fi with spaceships and lasers).

Roguey, please explain (and I actually mean this - not even trolling here, just genuinely confused) what the hell you actually mean by 'cargo cult' when applied to games?

imitation of systems without proper understanding. since the games in question are still prefectly playable games, not dysfunctional cargo cult replicas, it is essentially roguey's way of making "games i don't think are good" look less subjective.

 

[Ovplain]

This is like 75,80 hours into the game. And I gotta say, I don't like it.:D Things have been going TOO WELL for way too long. Wish a fire could break out at the shelter or something.:S I miss the feeling of 'desperation' that the game had in the beginning.:/

 

[Azrael the cat]

It's about using fucking common sense and our history. People didn't join in groups because they wanted it. They joined in groups because they fucking were forced as there were no other ways to live.

No.

Humans are apes, we are social creatures to the point social interaction is a need ... social groups didnt happened because sentience, they happened because there was a clear line of evolution that dictated such behavior, a lot of animals also are social creatures outside apes and their behavior is not caused by intelligence but engrained behavior.

The point I tried to make is that if order ceased we suddenly dont degenerate to murderous cannibalism rapists or such idiocy that usually comes in survival stories, the lack of control may allow some individuals to simply act on their anti-social behavior and like we did millennia ago we just murder the motherfucker, humans ARE aggressive but also pack creatures, just because centralized government ceases to exist will not change that, its not "the man" that forces the "law" into society ... what society we have is the result of millennia of social evolution, not something forced unto humans.

Also we have countries with no armies, even if they are small armies are not required to enforce law (as you fuckwits Americans keep proving its a general bad idea), that is the POLICE job ... even a fucking militia is a ORGANIZED force, a mob is not but even a mob just highlights human behavior into iinstinctively banding into a common goal and a mob doesnt think, it just reacts.

You arent a special snowflake, if you think you are "above" the rest of us because "you think" ... then you are not human, we might be sentient but we also have instinctual behavior that will get the best of us no matter how hard one think he can hold unto "reasoning", if you see a crowd running away your instinct will be to follow them , not because its smart but simply because its what everyone is doing.

Lol. Yes. "Milenia of social evolution". Try to remove police force. It is unthinkable to any country even sweden. Because everyone knows no one will be safe then. People would then gather in groups and try to fuck other people (so called organized crime) and without police force they would only grow and grow.

Take for example Mexico. Country like any other and yet there is now there almost civil war were thousands of people die yearly.

I am no special snowflake. Problem is that you don't have proof that in case of sudden goverment failure (ruling power keeping things in check) people will be working together and will not screw each other out and i have almost any conflict or disaster that happened to prove it is oxymoron like i said.

Take a look at africa where sometimes govs menage to fail and see how bandits walking from one village to another village to pillage and rape is not really rare. That is your "social evolution" for you. Nothing changed since stone age. In case of lack of power keeping things in check people will use each mean necessary to have better position than someone else. So goody goody people are just weakest members or that world.

The point is that having an organised police force (or equivalent) is as a product of our primate ancestry. Hobbes made the same point many centuries ago, and he gets misinterpreted in the same way by most scholars today - he isn't arguing that humans are intrinsically nasty motherfuckers who would all murder each other without an authoritarian government, he's arguing that authority relationships (including government) are a fundamental part of human nature. Of course humans start murdering/raping the fuck out of each other when government collapses - that's because humans without social heirarchies are ill, damaged creatures like the animals in a zoo with shitty, tiny enclosures. It's like cutting off a dog's leg, watching it bleed out, and saying 'lol, dogs can't even maintain their blood supply without intact arteries, so they're obviously intrinsically bleeding to death'.

Humans formed social heirarchies - fuck, humans have the concept of social heirarchies - for the same reason that chimps do. I.e. because that's how primates (and dogs, and many other species evolved). Yes, create conditions in which government breaks down or isn't possible, and humans will start displaying abberant behavior (just like ants will do if you create conditions in which the queen and spares suddenly die, or cannot be maintained). But you're really stretching the idea of 'natural state' if you're specifying conditions in which a species cannot utilise its basic evolutionary survival instincts (which, in all primates, includes not only group dynamics, but political power). If you had a permanent shift, instead of a natural disaster (like the Romero films on which the game is based) then there's a very good possibility that humans would go to shit - not because we're intrinsically mass murderers/rapists, but because we've been deprived of the evolutionary/instinctual mechanisms that lets us benefit from aggression while simultaneously mitigating its drawbacks.

 

[Papa Môlé]

Humans talking about humans talking about humans.

 

[Perkel]

imitation of systems without proper understanding. since the games in question are still prefectly playable games, not dysfunctional cargo cult replicas, it is essentially roguey's way of making "games i don't think are good" look less subjective.

Considering what Roguey finds good "cargo cultist" is probably best therm to describe him.

 

[Perkel]

The point is that having an organised police force (or equivalent) is as a product of our primate ancestry. Hobbes made the same point many centuries ago, and he gets misinterpreted in the same way by most scholars today - he isn't arguing that humans are intrinsically nasty motherfuckers who would all murder each other without an authoritarian government, he's arguing that authority relationships (including government) are a fundamental part of human nature. Of course humans start murdering/raping the fuck out of each other when government collapses - that's because humans without social heirarchies are ill, damaged creatures like the animals in a zoo with shitty, tiny enclosures. It's like cutting off a dog's leg, watching it bleed out, and saying 'lol, dogs can't even maintain their blood supply without intact arteries, so they're obviously intrinsically bleeding to death'.

Humans formed social heirarchies - fuck, humans have the concept of social heirarchies - for the same reason that chimps do. I.e. because that's how primates (and dogs, and many other species evolved). Yes, create conditions in which government breaks down or isn't possible, and humans will start displaying abberant behavior (just like ants will do if you create conditions in which the queen and spares suddenly die, or cannot be maintained). But you're really stretching the idea of 'natural state' if you're specifying conditions in which a species cannot utilise its basic evolutionary survival instincts (which, in all primates, includes not only group dynamics, but political power). If you had a permanent shift, instead of a natural disaster (like the Romero films on which the game is based) then there's a very good possibility that humans would go to shit - not because we're intrinsically mass murderers/rapists, but because we've been deprived of the evolutionary/instinctual mechanisms that lets us benefit from aggression while simultaneously mitigating its drawbacks.

Actually this is false. Police, nations and such isn't product of our evolution in strict sense. Evolution only armed us with clan relationship concept such as family and close kin. And this is how early humans and primates operated. We didn't have ant like system of power where we were born with roles to fit and concept of colony in our genes.

Nations, laws, police and all other things are our own development through education and history and thanks to our intelligence. To prove it is true you would need simply to put shit load of human babies on some place without any other human contact and you would see that evolution doesn't have anything with our ability to form nations, reading even speaking like we speak today and such expriment would end up with basically human monkeys with very small chance they will ever reach what we consider civilization.

Now drop ants into similar situation and they would naturally build colonies and create hierarchical order of power.
Who we are is just byproduct of our brain power, hands that could do various things, not being end of food chain creature that didn't need to adapt to survive and not being at start of it to not live long enough and conditions around us that allowed us for education to set without breaking chain of build up knowledge through years.

So our civilization is basically chance we got from nature and used it well.