Dear nazi douchebags, (or: no-ban policy has been revoked)

[Darth Roxor]

So, out of 20.000 posts, we can occasionally dig up one or two that don't read like a 12-year old fanboy ranting. I'm sure EV also said something worthwhile once every blue moon, but he was still a bit of a dumbass.

But the point is, EV was a redundant dumbfuck, and Volourn is just a moron (or MoraN if you prefer) and even his fanboy rants sometimes manage to spawn multi-paged discussions. Besides, the way he rages at everything is often just amusing.

 

[Vibalist]

The job of a moderator is to ban people who break the forum rules.

And he can't do both?

No. Just because someone isn't liked/appreciated doesn't mean he loses the right to post on the forum. Unless he's not liked for breaking the forum rules (see above). People who are hated by everybody bring life and meaning to the community.

Loses what right? If you own and run a forum you can ban whoever you feel like. If someone comes in day in and day out posting irrelevant bullshit, even if he isn't technically breaking any rules, the admins and mods have a pretty good reason for a banning right there.

While I understand that the mod is technically there to enforce the written rules, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be able to enforce the wishes of the community and ban some guy who no one wants around.

 

[relootz]

Darth Roxxor you are very stupendously wrong as i have never ever changed my posting style.

The mistake was thus solely on your site.

Perception, perception. One might expect a poster of the astute RPGcodex to be better then being so easily fooled.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Darth Roxxor you are very stupendously wrong as i have never ever changed my posting style.

No shit, I didn't say that. I said that at least now you can behave properly, although it's more of a curious mutual relation of you and CF, since you still jab at him, but this time he isn't responding and it doesn't derail threads into a giant 'Tool vs CF, which is a bigger dumbfuck and why? DISCUSS'.

 

[Vibalist]

But the point is, EV was a redundant dumbfuck, and Volourn is just a moron (or MoraN if you prefer) and even his fanboy rants sometimes manage to spawn multi-paged discussions. Besides, the way he rages at everything is often just amusing.

His rants very rarely spawn discussions as much as they make people yell and scream at him for two or three pages. The reason his posts usually get so much response is not because they are valid and intelligent, but because of how outragously stupid they are. A discussion is something that takes place between two people doing their best to convince the other guy of the validity of his own opinion. When Volourn "discusses" something, he is merely doing his best impression of a dumbass in order to see how many people he can bait. In other words, the guy is a pretty damn good troll. I don't see how a redundant dumbfuck is worse than this.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Surely you are able to tell the difference between the freedom to post an opinion, especially if it's well presented and supported by arguments, and the freedom to be a moron and throw feces at people.

Oh, certainly. But is just being a moron going "too far"? One poster's retardation doesn't keep other posters from contributing good stuff. Some people find BLOBERT to be annoying; they just skip over his jokeposts and post their opinions. At which point it ceases to be heated argument and becomes bonoboland?

Sure, shit gets thrown around, but since it's virtual shit it shouldn't keep quality posters from approaching; they're not gonna get hit.

For example, was there any reason to kick Gaider off these boards? In the good ol' days Dave was getting plenty of shit from Saint, Rosh, and other people, but it was constructive criticism that invited discussions, not criticism like "fatty", stupid, shitty, etc. Would the latter be a good example of the "can't take the heat..." dogma that's being paraded around?

No, I consider developers leaving as an example of retardation spilling out of the appropriate recipient, but that's because I don't think of them as regular posters, so that may not be equal treatment on my part.

Is the site better without developers coming here to discuss and defend their design decisions?

I consider developers to be extra quality posters, and as shuch should be exempt from the usual comraderie (feces throwing) reserved for the regular posters.

Is it better with obvious morons like Ch1ef who have nothing to contribute?

No, but it isn't worse, either. You're not forced to read his posts / topics.

For someone else it's an invite to be a moron.

Let that someone else be a moron then, moronicness isn't a virus that hops from poster to poster. It won't make the other posters shittier. If people still contribute good arguments, good discussions can still be had. They don't have to derail because Ch1ef posted HAY GUISE, or something.

Because one extreme can only be replaced with another extreme?

No, but from what I've seen in other forums, it ends up like that. The more stuff you moderate, the more things people want to be moderated. Example: You can't say "black guy" (regardless of context) in gamefaqs without 5 people quoteing you, bolding the "black" part and going "wow, racist much". Years ago, they joked about an user's habits (he's black), like eating chicken and the like.

Political correctness is a terminal disease. Once you get it, it devours you from inside until you become a dried husk.

-post is half finished because I have to go to work, will continue later -

-done. This discussion kinda loses it's meaning now that we have an ignore list, though. If you feel certain people suck ass, just mute them and you'll keep the good ones. New members and developers could be intimidated, though. The public list should tell who to ignore, however.

 

[Grunker]

While I don't know where you might find another forum that offers the same criticism of the industry as the codex does, saying that this is the only place on the internet where you can aim criticism at the industry simply isn't true. I once wrote a long rant against Dragon Age on the Bio forums, and no one shut the thread down until it ended up derailing, which was after 7 pages of heated discussion.

Okay, I might have exaggerated, but the combination of being completely outspoken and maintaining a healthy criticism is rare. I too wrote a couple of threads on the Bio-forums, one concerning the Darkspawn as a cliché villain and the other concerning the invalidity of calling DA a spiritual successor to BG2. Both were buried under so much, I hate to say it, but fanboyism, that I was unable to get anything interesting from the discussion. I wasn't looking for a "yes, you're right", just more than "Darkspawn are totally original" and "they're totally not the enemy."

Why the is it so important to be allowed to say fuck? If you go to some forum where this isn't allowed, surely you'll find another way to express your opinion.

You're missing the point. It's not "why allow it", it's "why not allow it." The one bringing the claim is supposed to defend it, and removing 'fuck', in this case, is the claim.

I agree that it's fun to do so now and again

Well, there you have it. If you notice, I've rarely if ever made personal attacks here, but I do get a bit of fun out of the Skyway-rage. It was even pretty funny when you and I bitched at each other. And it's not like that bout caused some kind of a meltdown. We're having a pretty civilized conversation right now.

Besides, you were the one calling me an idiot that you were ashamed of sharing a country with. Why did you do that if you think such things should be banned?

his depends on the moderator in question

That's exactly my point. Either you have the Codex policy where mods can't do much without people calling them dipshits, or you have the other places where every ruling is up to the mod entirely. Sure, it's like that on the codex in theory, but if the mods here turned Watch-ish, I'd simply up and leave.

Mostly everyone here agrees that Volourn (...) should be banned

Are you serious? Volourn is perhaps one of the most entertaining posters on the forum. He's the perfect example of why banning idiots would be, well, idiotic. I love his fits of rage, his iconic defence of Bioware. At least he is pretty fucking honest, which is a direct result of the light moderation of the Codex.

Let's be honest: Knowingly or unknowingly, the wide range of steady posters often act in accordance to cool-points. On most forums, this means an adopted politeness which will overshadow honest opinion about the value of a game - making them defend rather than attack company decisions.

On the Codex, it means the opposite, and as I've said before, I prefer the opposite bias to people who yell "yeah!" whenever another RPG-feature is removed from a game.

The examples are quite massive; like people aplauding less party members or less options in the character system.

 

[Shannow]

When has Volourn ever said anything useful, intelligent or insightful? C'mon now. The guy is good fun and a good troll, but every post of his can be boiled down to name calling and wierd and illogical opinions he never tries to defend, ever.

I still remember when these two followed each other around in every thread and derailed it with their stupid beef. I agree that they're cool now, but if you look back at their history it's very understandable why they got kicked out.

Volly has phases. There was a time 1/5 of his posts had a valid point and he was entertaining to boot. The quality to noise ratio with Volly varies strongly from phase to phase (I'd estimate 1/5 - 1/25 posts with valid, insightful comments) but in his good times he's a lot better than many who aren't considered ban-worthy. E.g. I can't think of a single time you said anything insightful or contributed to an RPG discussion. Now that may just be because our opinions mostly differ (?) or because you fly so low you're under my radar, but it may also be because you simply didn't "contribute".

And zerotool and cloaked faggot should be judged by their current behavior not by their boy-love relationship of the past.

 

[Vibalist]

While I don't know where you might find another forum that offers the same criticism of the industry as the codex does, saying that this is the only place on the internet where you can aim criticism at the industry simply isn't true. I once wrote a long rant against Dragon Age on the Bio forums, and no one shut the thread down until it ended up derailing, which was after 7 pages of heated discussion.

Okay, I might have exaggerated, but the combination of being completely outspoken and maintaining a healthy criticism is rare. I too wrote a couple of threads on the Bio-forums, one concerning the Darkspawn as a cliché villain and the other concerning the invalidity of calling DA a spiritual successor to BG2. Both were buried under so much, I hate to say it, but fanboyism, that I was unable to get anything interesting from the discussion. I wasn't looking for a "yes, you're right", just more than "Darkspawn are totally original" and "they're totally not the enemy."

It doesn't matter if people on the Bioboards acted like fanboys and defended their game irrationally. The point is that you were allowed to make your point without a moderator shutting the thread down.

Why the is it so important to be allowed to say fuck? If you go to some forum where this isn't allowed, surely you'll find another way to express your opinion.

You're missing the point. It's not "why allow it", it's "why not allow it." The one bringing the claim is supposed to defend it, and removing 'fuck', in this case, is the claim.

Eh? I'm not sure I get your point here. All I said was that you don't have to make a big deal out of not being allowed to curse on a forum, as it hardly prevents you from giving your honest opinion on a given subject.

I agree that it's fun to do so now and again

Well, there you have it. If you notice, I've rarely if ever made personal attacks here, but I do get a bit of fun out of the Skyway-rage. It was even pretty funny when you and I bitched at each other. And it's not like that bout caused some kind of a meltdown. We're having a pretty civilized conversation right now.

Besides, you were the one calling me an idiot that you were ashamed of sharing a country with. Why did you do that if you think such things should be banned?

Because I'm a filthy hypocrite who does whatever he feels like and then does the exact opposite the next day. In all seriousness, it was fun to flame you, but being allowed to do so is hardly something I look for in a message board. If DU decided tomorrow that people should either be civil or get banned, I wouldn't mind it as we could still continue having some good discussions and it wouldn't really take anything away from the boards that I'd miss.

his depends on the moderator in question

That's exactly my point. Either you have the Codex policy where mods can't do much without people calling them dipshits, or you have the other places where every ruling is up to the mod entirely. Sure, it's like that on the codex in theory, but if the mods here turned Watch-ish, I'd simply up and leave.

I don't mind mods being Watch-ish as long as they perform their job without bias, and I'm certain that many mods out there are capable of just that.

Mostly everyone here agrees that Volourn (...) should be banned

Are you serious? Volourn is perhaps one of the most entertaining posters on the forum. He's the perfect example of why banning idiots would be, well, idiotic. I love his fits of rage, his iconic defence of Bioware. At least he is pretty fucking honest, which is a direct result of the light moderation of the Codex.

Let's be honest: Knowingly or unknowingly, the wide range of steady posters often act in accordance to cool-points. On most forums, this means an adopted politeness which will overshadow honest opinion about the value of a game - making them defend rather than attack company decisions.

On the Codex, it means the opposite, and as I've said before, I prefer the opposite bias to people who yell "yeah!" whenever another RPG-feature is removed from a game.

The examples are quite massive; like people aplauding less party members or less options in the character system.

I don't think that a few forum rules and terms will prevent people from giving their opinions. Sure, people might hold back every now and then, but it's not as if either the Bioware or the Bethesda boards lack any real discussion or criticism just because people aren't allowed to do anything they please.

As for Volourn, I don't like him. He can be funny yes, but every thread he enters always turns to shite as people try, always fruitlessly, to illustrate why he's wrong. Having a guy like that on a forum will inevitably make it shittier, as threads that could have been intelligent and interesting turn to bollocks because people don't adress the posters with clever opinions, but direct all their attention towards a guy who posts nothing but rubbish.

 

[relootz]

Darth Roxxor you are very stupendously wrong as i have never ever changed my posting style.

No shit, I didn't say that. I said that at least now you can behave properly, although it's more of a curious mutual relation of you and CF, since you still jab at him, but this time he isn't responding and it doesn't derail threads into a giant 'Tool vs CF, which is a bigger dumbfuck and why? DISCUSS'.

I am fighting the good fight man, never relent, never surrender.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Oh, certainly. But is just being a moron going "too far"? One poster's retardation doesn't keep other posters from contributing good stuff. Some people find BLOBERT to be annoying; they just skip over his jokeposts and post their opinions.
...
No, but it isn't worse, either. You're not forced to read his posts / topics.
...
Let that someone else be a moron then, moronicness isn't a virus that hops from poster to poster. It won't make the other posters shittier.

As someone who has been here since 2003, I beg to differ. Stupidity does tend to breed more stupidity and attract people who are here because they can say "fuck" and bitch about jews and niggers.

No, but from what I've seen in other forums, it ends up like that. The more stuff you moderate, the more things people want to be moderated. Example: You can't say "black guy" (regardless of context) in gamefaqs without 5 people quoteing you, bolding the "black" part and going "wow, racist much". Years ago, they joked about an user's habits (he's black), like eating chicken and the like.

Political correctness is a terminal disease. Once you get it, it devours you from inside until you become a dried husk.

We are not talking about political correctness. We are talking about stupidity.

I posted this quote before, but it sums up the situation well and comes from another old timer who posts less and less:

All the bitching in this thread just goes to prove what I suspected, and the reason I left this fucking place. Most of the actually intelligent people in this forum have left, all that's remaining are the posing retards that get a thrill out of being all nasty and counterculture and shit but actually don't have the critical thinking and analytical skills to walk the walk.

 

[Vibalist]

E.g. I can't think of a single time you said anything insightful or contributed to an RPG discussion.

Uhm, okay. Whether or not I'm an insightful guy is up to you to judge, but I've contributed to plenty of RPG topics with the intention of adding to the discussion, rather than posting one-liners or fanboy rants.

 

[Droog White Smile]

Hey, VD, how about you and your lapdog Naked Ninja go back to the ITS forums?! Your kind was never welcome here, you know.

 

[Grunker]

It doesn't matter if people on the Bioboards acted like fanboys and defended their game irrationally. The point is that you were allowed to make your point without a moderator shutting the thread down.

Nope, it wasn't. The point I'm trying to make is that heavy moderation affects the possible quality of debate, and not in a good way. It's a rare sight to see a good discussion on RPG on the 'dex, but it's even more rare on Bioware and the Watch.

Eh? I'm not sure I get your point here. All I said was that you don't have to make a big deal out of not being allowed to curse on a forum, as it hardly prevents you from giving your honest opinion on a given subject.

Nope - my question was: Why ban it? If I feel like it makes my post more interesting to read, I'm going to use it.

Because I'm a filthy hypocrite who does whatever he feels like and then does the exact opposite the next day. In all seriousness, it was fun to flame you, but being allowed to do so is hardly something I look for in a message board. If DU decided tomorrow that people should either be civil or get banned, I wouldn't mind it as we could still continue having some good discussions and it wouldn't really take anything away from the boards that I'd miss.

Well, it would for me, and as I don't really feel we're missing something BEAUTIFUL that all the other forums have, I don't want the extra moderation. I can ignore the idiots on this forum, or can have a bit of fun with them when I feel like it.

I don't mind mods being Watch-ish as long as they perform their job without bias, and I'm certain that many mods out there are capable of just that.

I have never, ever seen an unbiased mod before I came to the Codex. I've seen mods ban people on SHS because of different political opinions. I've seen rules at almost every gaming sites against religious or political debates, because that's the result of enforcing niceness - niceness is often not very likely when you've got debates on the burkha for example. People feel strongly about that stuff and express themselves strongly because of it.

Banning the strong expression often leads to banning the interesting discussion.

I don't think that a few forum rules and terms will prevent people from giving their opinions. Sure, people might hold back every now and then, but it's not as if either the Bioware or the Bethesda boards lack any real discussion or criticism just because people aren't allowed to do anything they please.

As for Volourn, I don't like him. He can be funny yes, but every thread he enters always turns to shite as people try, always fruitlessly, to illustrate why he's wrong. Having a guy like that on a forum will inevitably make it shittier, as threads that could have been intelligent and interesting turn to bollocks because people don't adress the posters with clever opinions, but direct all their attention towards a guy who posts nothing but rubbish.

Suffice to say, I disagree with you.

Uhm, okay. Whether or not I'm an insightful guy is up to you to judge, but I've contributed to plenty of RPG topics with the intention of adding to the discussion, rather than posting one-liners or fanboy rants.

And that's the key isn't it? DU already said it, but I'll repeat: What you find inane and unfunny, someone will find contributing and funny.

 

[relootz]

Hey, VD, how about you and your lapdog Naked Ninja go back to the ITS forums?! Your kind was never welcome here, you know.

This guy is a major twat.VD is a cool guy.

 

[Vibalist]

It doesn't matter if people on the Bioboards acted like fanboys and defended their game irrationally. The point is that you were allowed to make your point without a moderator shutting the thread down.

Nope, it wasn't. The point I'm trying to make is that heavy moderation affects the possible quality of debate, and not in a good way. It's a rare sight to see a good discussion on RPG on the 'dex, but it's even more rare on Bioware and the Watch.

I don't think good RPG discussions are rare on the Bioware boards because of moderation, as no mod there discourages criticism. I think it's rare due to the kind of people who frequent the forum, namely casual gamers who aren't as passionate about the genre as we are.

Eh? I'm not sure I get your point here. All I said was that you don't have to make a big deal out of not being allowed to curse on a forum, as it hardly prevents you from giving your honest opinion on a given subject.

Nope - my question was: Why ban it? If I feel like it makes my post more interesting to read, I'm going to use it.

Cool. I just don't see why it's so important to be allowed to curse.

Because I'm a filthy hypocrite who does whatever he feels like and then does the exact opposite the next day. In all seriousness, it was fun to flame you, but being allowed to do so is hardly something I look for in a message board. If DU decided tomorrow that people should either be civil or get banned, I wouldn't mind it as we could still continue having some good discussions and it wouldn't really take anything away from the boards that I'd miss.

Well, it would for me, and as I don't really feel we're missing something BEAUTIFUL that all the other forums have, I don't want the extra moderation. I can ignore the idiots on this forum, or can have a bit of fun with them when I feel like it.

Alright. I don't feel the same, as first of all I can't ignore the idiots (they piss me off too much) and secondly, they derail too many threads.

I don't mind mods being Watch-ish as long as they perform their job without bias, and I'm certain that many mods out there are capable of just that.

I have never, ever seen an unbiased mod before I came to the Codex. I've seen mods ban people on SHS because of different political opinions. I've seen rules at almost every gaming sites against religious or political debates, because that's the result of enforcing niceness - niceness is often not very likely when you've got debates on the burkha for example. People feel strongly about that stuff and express themselves strongly because of it.

Go to Cracked.com's subforum called We Stole Hitlers Brain. It has some of the best and most intelligent discussions I've seen on the web, all without people cursing, flaming or otherwise disrespecting each other. A prime example of how such a forum could be run well.
As for the crappy mods you describe, well, they're crappy mods. I've never come across a moderator who banned someone for disagreeing with him.

Banning the strong expression often leads to banning the interesting discussion.

Not necesarrily. Banning the strong expression can also lead to the interesting discussion going on and not detoriating into a flame fest where no one says anything of importance.

Uhm, okay. Whether or not I'm an insightful guy is up to you to judge, but I've contributed to plenty of RPG topics with the intention of adding to the discussion, rather than posting one-liners or fanboy rants.

And that's the key isn't it? DU already said it, but I'll repeat: What you find inane and unfunny, someone will find contributing and funny.

So you honestly think there is no difference between a guy doing his best to contribute even if he is not terribly intelligent or insightful and a guy doing his best not to contribute by flamebaiting, trolling and ranting endlessly?

 

[Grunker]

I don't think good RPG discussions are rare on the Bioware boards because of moderation, as no mod there discourages criticism. I think it's rare due to the kind of people who frequent the forum, namely casual gamers who aren't as passionate about the genre as we are.

First off, there's not only casual gamers there. There are a lot of hardcore fans, like, what's her name, Moardalil?, who will also suck up to the big guys, regardless.

Besides - now we're having an egg or chicken first-discussion. Which caused what? Hard rules caused casual gamer influx/hardcore gamer immigration, or the reverse? I'd argue that the rules results in the atmosphere, not the other way around.

Cool. I just don't see why it's so important to be allowed to curse.

And I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. The one who wants to ban it holds the burden of proof.

Alright. I don't feel the same, as first of all I can't ignore the idiots (they piss me off too much) and secondly, they derail too many threads.

I see this argument all the time, but mostly they don't derail threads in RPG discussion. Plus: The most retarded popular forum rule EVER, is the one about off-topicness. Going on tangents will often create a really interesting discussion. Banning nearly always serves no purpose, and prohibits the evolution of a discussion.

As for the crappy mods you describe, well, they're crappy mods. I've never come across a moderator who banned someone for disagreeing with him.

Then you're either lucky or blind

So you honestly think there is no difference between a guy doing his best to contribute even if he is not terribly intelligent or insightful and a guy doing his best not to contribute by flamebaiting, trolling and ranting endlessly?

Yep, I think there is a gigantic difference. But I also think I view Volly as one, and you view him as the other. So obviously, there's no arbitrary definition that will allow us to ban the idiots and keep the goodfellas.

 

[Vibalist]

First off, there's not only casual gamers there. There are a lot of hardcore fans, like, what's her name, Moardalil?, who will also suck up to the big guys, regardless.

Besides - now we're having an egg or chicken first-discussion. Which caused what? Hard rules caused casual gamer influx/hardcore gamer immigration, or the reverse? I'd argue that the rules results in the atmosphere, not the other way around.

There might be hardcore fans on the Bioware boards, but few of them are as critical or full of hate as most Codexians. It's funny that it hasn't occured to you that the reason there isn't much criticism on the Bioware boards may be because people actually are satisfied with the games they get?

Also, I don't see why you keep on insisting that the forum rules are some sort of deciding factor when it comes to who posts on the boards. I don't think moderation caused the hardcore rpg'ers to leave the Bioware forums, I think the kind of games Bioware makes did so. People first and foremost decide to go to a forum because it is related to a product/brand/person they like, not because that specific forum has a bunch of rules they agree with.

And I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed. The one who wants to ban it holds the burden of proof.

Plenty people find cursing offensive (for some reason) and thus, if you try to have a discussion on a more civilised board, it's better to avoid swearing so you can get on with the debate with minimal fuss. You may find this silly, but that's just how things work currently.
My point here is that you might as well avoid cursing, as it usually adds nothing whatsoever and helps you stay on everyones good side so that you can actually get an interesting discussion going rather than a flame war.

I see this argument all the time, but mostly they don't derail threads in RPG discussion. Plus: The most retarded popular forum rule EVER, is the one about off-topicness. Going on tangents will often create a really interesting discussion. Banning nearly always serves no purpose, and prohibits the evolution of a discussion.

I used to go to a board where every thread turned into a discussion about the Iraq War. People could always find some sort of connection between the issue being discussed (whether it was abortion, christianity or rap music) and the invasion of Iraq, and so, because no one bothered to enforce the rules, every topic became the same topic with people following each other from thread to thread in order to continue their bickering. It ruined everything. I agree that going on tangents can sometimes cause a thread to take an interesting turn, but mostly staying on topic is a pretty good idea. If you feel like discussing something new, you could always start a new topic anyway.

Yep, I think there is a gigantic difference. But I also think I view Volly as one, and you view him as the other. So obviously, there's no arbitrary definition that will allow us to ban the idiots and keep the goodfellas.

Maybe not in the case of Volourn, but take one look at the ignore list and you'll find that a lot of users agree on who the idiots are.

 

[spacemoose]

this thread has veered way off topic

mod close please

 

[Clockwork Knight]

As someone who has been here since 2003, I beg to differ. Stupidity does tend to breed more stupidity and attract people who are here because they can say "fuck" and bitch about jews and niggers.

Well, you've been here for a lot longer tan me so you obviously know more about the forum, but I share DU's view of the situation - as the site becomes popular, it attracts more and more people, and most people have some level of retardation -even if the retardo persona only comes out when online - so it's not something you can avoid unless there is a very strict moderation. The "It's popular so now it sucks" adage is valid here, not because popularity itself is bad, but because it tends to attract the unwashed masses (aka dumbing down, decline, etc).

As for Astromarine and others like him, they are right - with lots of users, odds are most won't be able to hold a good, valuable argument.

 

[Grunker]

Plenty people find cursing offensive (for some reason) and thus, if you try to have a discussion on a more civilised board, it's better to avoid swearing so you can get on with the debate with minimal fuss. You may find this silly, but that's just how things work currently.
My point here is that you might as well avoid cursing, as it usually adds nothing whatsoever and helps you stay on everyones good side so that you can actually get an interesting discussion going rather than a flame war.

I find the above to contain a gigantic amount of disregard for the language as such. Cussing can make something much more dynamic and interesting to read, and banning it is straight out fucking stupid. If we were to take into consideration everything that some pussy felt was "offensive" it would seriously hinder our ability to talk about anything. You can't argue logically that cursing is in anyway different from a number of other things that might make someone feel unwelcome. So fuck you I say. If you are so sensitive that discussion politics or cursing is somehow offensive to you, then I don't want to be a part of your forums.

Ultimately it comes down to free speech. The Muhammed-drawings was a dick move - but outlawing it? FUCK. NO.

used to go to a board where every thread turned into a discussion about the Iraq War. People could always find some sort of connection between the issue being discussed (whether it was abortion, christianity or rap music) and the invasion of Iraq, and so, because no one bothered to enforce the rules, every topic became the same topic with people following each other from thread to thread in order to continue their bickering. It ruined everything. I agree that going on tangents can sometimes cause a thread to take an interesting turn, but mostly staying on topic is a pretty good idea. If you feel like discussing something new, you could always start a new topic anyway.

You are more less proving DU's point.

If you find his first post and read it thouroughly, you will discover he speaks about exactly the same as you are now. Interestingly this is not a problem AT ALL on the Codex. So DU must have some kind of a point, eh?

Maybe not in the case of Volourn, but take one look at the ignore list and you'll find that a lot of users agree on who the idiots are.

16 people agree that Ch1ef is an idiot, and you call that unity on a board with this many users? We can find 10-20 people who'll agree that three posters are annoying (on of them I don't even agree with), and you'd use that as proof?

 

[Vibalist]

Plenty people find cursing offensive (for some reason) and thus, if you try to have a discussion on a more civilised board, it's better to avoid swearing so you can get on with the debate with minimal fuss. You may find this silly, but that's just how things work currently.
My point here is that you might as well avoid cursing, as it usually adds nothing whatsoever and helps you stay on everyones good side so that you can actually get an interesting discussion going rather than a flame war.

I find the above to contain a gigantic amount of disregard for the language as such. Cussing can make something much more dynamic and interesting to read, and banning it is straight out fucking stupid. If we were to take into consideration everything that some pussy felt was "offensive" it would seriously hinder our ability to talk about anything. You can't argue logically that cursing is in anyway different from a number of other things that might make someone feel unwelcome. So fuck you I say. If you are so sensitive that discussion politics or cursing is somehow offensive to you, then I don't want to be a part of your forums.

Ultimately it comes down to free speech. The Muhammed-drawings was a dick move - but outlawing it? FUCK. NO.

I'm merely saying that you might as well avoid cursing if you know the people you're adressing don't like hearing it. In order to get a discussion going, it's often a good idea showing a bit of respect for the people you want to argue with, even if they might not deserve it. This is done so that the discussion doesn't end before it starts and the people you tried to adress don't run away because you did or said something they found unappealing.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to curse, I'm merely asking if it's necesarry. I don't understand this "either I go all out and say exactly what I feel or I'm a pussy who's scared to speak my mind" mentality. Surely there's a middle ground, where you politely explain why you think the way you do and let people know exactly how you feel without resorting to stuff that you know will offend.

The Muhammad drawings are a great way to illustrate my point. The drawers wanted to start a debate on Islam, which is cool, but the means they used to start this debate ensured that it ended before it began, and no one gained anything from it other than hate and animosity. What was the point, really? We can all agree that the muslims are over-sensitive and fanatic when it comes to their religion (just like people on the Bioware forums are allergic to the word "fuck"), but offending them like the way we did never solved anything.

used to go to a board where every thread turned into a discussion about the Iraq War. People could always find some sort of connection between the issue being discussed (whether it was abortion, christianity or rap music) and the invasion of Iraq, and so, because no one bothered to enforce the rules, every topic became the same topic with people following each other from thread to thread in order to continue their bickering. It ruined everything. I agree that going on tangents can sometimes cause a thread to take an interesting turn, but mostly staying on topic is a pretty good idea. If you feel like discussing something new, you could always start a new topic anyway.

You are more less proving DU's point.

If you find his first post and read it thouroughly, you will discover he speaks about exactly the same as you are now. Interestingly this is not a problem AT ALL on the Codex. So DU must have some kind of a point, eh?

Please elaborate.

EDIT: Also, not a problem at all? Threads are derailed left and right.

Maybe not in the case of Volourn, but take one look at the ignore list and you'll find that a lot of users agree on who the idiots are.

16 people agree that Ch1ef is an idiot, and you call that unity on a board with this many users? We can find 10-20 people who'll agree that three posters are annoying (on of them I don't even agree with), and you'd use that as proof?

No no. But you have to take into account that not everyone who finds Ch1ef annoying necesarrily puts him on ignore, as many people simply don't use the ignore function. Also, out of all the registered users, how many would you say are active? And how many of those are here enough that they have time to get truly fed up with him? And add to this that the ignore function is new and not everyone has had time to use it yet. In a month I wouldn't be surprised if some of the most ignored members had reached 40 or 50 people who ignore them.

And also, my point was never that every board member is united against Ch1ef or Andhaira, or that being ignored by 20 people says a lot on a board as active as this, but merely that it's very easy to spot who's popular and who isn't by looking at that list. It's not a coincidence that guys like unmastered and Ch1ef top the list, surely.

 

[Shannow]

I still haven't read any argument that debunks the point of there being several alternative options to the co'x. Do you guys want everything to be the same?
I also find the douchiness concerning curse-words very offensive. Doesn't mean I'll demand that you stop being douches. And I certainly wouldn't consider banning anybody for not cursing. But I expect the same level of tolerance to be extended towards me. And if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I hear there are several good alternatives where cultural backrounds of not cursing are enforced.

 

[Vibalist]

I still haven't read any argument that debunks the point of there being several alternative options to the co'x. Do you guys want everything to be the same?

Nah, but this place could certainly benefit from being less stupid.

I also find the douchiness concerning curse-words very offensive. Doesn't mean I'll demand that you stop being douches. And I certainly wouldn't consider banning anybody for not cursing. But I expect the same level of tolerance to be extended towards me. And if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I hear there are several good alternatives where cultural backrounds of not cursing are enforced.

So, you're offended that other people are offended? Sounds like a bit of a stretch.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Accepting the niggerjews is the price we pay for allowing those "heated conversations".

False. Heated conversations can (and often are) had without that particular word, proving that banning it doesn't prevent them. Your entire point is based on a false assertion, hence it is false.

Banning it also doesn't change anything. What's the real difference if someone calls someone a "niggerjew" instead of perhaps telling them to "put more points into perception"? We're all smart enough here to know there's no difference between the two.

You're allowing it for the lulz, and that is all there is to it. Let's be honest DU, you enjoy participating in the mud-wallowing as much as all the other dumbasses.

I've never denied it. Though I will say you go to awful lengths to appear above it all, while engaging in your own mud-wallowing. It's that disparity I'm against. I recognise mud-wallowing for what it is. I've been around long enough to see plenty of times on other forums, where the "dumbass" gets banned for the same behaviour the pretentious twat gets away with, simply because the "dumbass" was more direct.

Over here, if you leave, it's because you decided to

Exactly. And you're creating an atmosphere where the people who decide to leave are the ones looking for intelligent conversation.

That's the point though. The Codex isn't about intelligent conversation at the cost of all else. The Codex is about allowing members the freedom to express their opinions and then get chewed out for them, no matter what that opinion is.

The fact you felt you could come back, read the thread and post what you have, tells me the Codex is still working.

So the fact that the only thing I've contributed to your community in a good long time is a moan about the decline shows you the Codex is working as intended? Put more points into Perception.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... t=#1026559
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... ht=#997840
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... ht=#995977

All made within the last couple of months. And speaking of banning words...

So: False. As Mikayel said, you care far too much for a place you claim spends all its time wallowing in the mud.

The intelligent, mature members will realise they've gone too far and tone it down.

HAHAH. OH WOW. This is what Naked Ninja actually believes.

There is a reason that every society has a system for punishing people who can't control the impulses which are harmful to that society as a whole. Because trusting jerks to self-moderate is naive. They don't.

Hence Retardo Land and the dumbfuck tag. Incidentally, note how neither of those measures is actually designed to stop the individual in question, rather to announce their presence to the populace at large? How people decide to react to that is up to them. It's why the Codex doesn't engage in the circle-jerk seen on so many other forums where certain games are declared winners and anyone who declares otherwise is hounded out. Over here, you get people on both sides of the argument and that's what's important. That people who fundamentally disagree with whatever's being said have the courage to say so.

Much like what you're doing now.

the people looking for intelligent conversation, or the childish twits. Can't have both.

Given your argument is that we've scared away all those who are capable of an intelligent conversation, and given that you're here, what does that say about you?

... or is this the part where I should just say: False.

The world doesn't run in black and white.

Put more points into perception.
[...]
Do you suffer from a mental disability perhaps? Does it affect your ability to read at an adult level?

What, personal attacks already?

Loses what right? If you own and run a forum you can ban whoever you feel like.

You're right. This is our forum. We'll ban who we like. And at the moment, that's no-one.

If someone comes in day in and day out posting irrelevant bullshit, even if he isn't technically breaking any rules, the admins and mods have a pretty good reason for a banning right there.

Why? Because it upsets a handful of people's frail sensibilities? Why is that these "intellectual elite" types need to be protected from the poor sods with their harsh words? Yet at the same time, that elite will be the ones dishing out the insults.

Perhaps it's because I'm smart enough to see that the Naked Ninja and VD types are the first to resort to name-calling, that I don't ban it when I see it from the less intellectual. You think NN's little retorts were done for anything other than to boost his own ego and claim the superior ground? He may as well have called Mikayel a "dumbass" and been done with it. At least that would be more intellectually honest.

As someone who has been here since 2003, I beg to differ. Stupidity does tend to breed more stupidity and attract people who are here because they can say "fuck" and bitch about jews and niggers.

Speaking of words: "Fuck" appears in VD's posts 691 times.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... =fuck#6132
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... uck#549372
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... uck#506586
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... =fuck#7060
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... =fuck#9303 (4 times in that post, VD was very upset about FO BoS)

... and nigger once.

Banning those words, also bans the freedom of the smarter members to use those words as well.

Oh and incidentally:

I don't care about Jew jokes or Black jokes, but I strongly dislike when some shit makes fun of thousands (millions, in this case) people being senselessly killed. It's not about Jews. It's about genocide. Someone cracking a joke about, say, 1.5 mil Armenians killed in Turkey will be promptly banned as well. There is a difference between discussing a matter and finding something funny in murder of millions.

First it was inappropriate jokes about the holocaust, and jew and black jokes were fine, then nazi jokes were bad and "fuck" was fine, now "fuck" is bad... Who was it that spoke of the slippery slope earlier?