Dear nazi douchebags, (or: no-ban policy has been revoked)

[King Crispy]

The minute you begin to censor certain verbiage here is the minute I log out permanently. Certainly the intent would be to improve the image of the site, and eventually the Codex might return to its more "friendly" persona from back in the early 2000's, but frankly almost every time I read a thread from then I pretty much cringe. It was so buttery as to be embarrassing, intelligent discourse not withstanding.

I've always been a fan of self-policing, as much as can be done without losing all control. Let the true dumbfucks out themselves and be publicly stoned. Do you really feel they've completely taken over? Isn't it even a little fun to stoop to their level once in a while (admittedly, more than once in a while)? I do not look to the Codex as a guide how to behave in public. I look to its RPG section to read about and meaningfully discuss computer role-playing games. It still serves that purpose, although in the last five years it's mostly been in reminiscence. GD serves as the cesspool in which one can occasionally find a diamond or pearl, and I seek nothing more than that from it. Anyone who looks at it differently has unrealistic expectations IMO.

There are good points on both sides, but if it were my decision I would continue on the current path. Choose your admins wisely and dump all openly NSFW stuff, keep the barriers between sub forums up (WAY up), but avoid the too-easily enforced word filtering and discriminatory ban policy.

Also: I find it very interesting (and a little disturbing) the timing of the fact that this thread was recently bumped and is again now so active after the whole Watch incident. Can you feel "them" reading it now and snickering? Shall we become like "them"? Are we not men?

 

[Grunker]

I'm merely saying that you might as well avoid cursing if you know the people you're adressing don't like hearing it. In order to get a discussion going, it's often a good idea showing a bit of respect for the people you want to argue with, even if they might not deserve it. This is done so that the discussion doesn't end before it starts and the people you tried to adress don't run away because you did or said something they found unappealing.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to curse, I'm merely asking if it's necesarry. I don't understand this "either I go all out and say exactly what I feel or I'm a pussy who's scared to speak my mind" mentality. Surely there's a middle ground, where you politely explain why you think the way you do and let people know exactly how you feel without resorting to stuff that you know will offend.

The Muhammad drawings are a great way to illustrate my point. The drawers wanted to start a debate on Islam, which is cool, but the means they used to start this debate ensured that it ended before it began, and no one gained anything from it other than hate and animosity. What was the point, really? We can all agree that the muslims are over-sensitive and fanatic when it comes to their religion (just like people on the Bioware forums are allergic to the word "fuck"), but offending them like the way we did never solved anything.

What you are saying: You should be nice to people if you want a good discussion with them.

What I am saying: Not being nice shouldn't be outlawed.

We're talking about two different things see? I agree with all your points, but I still don't want to live in a country where I can't say fuck, and I much less want to waste my time on a forum that bans such trivialities. Chances are, it says a lot about the rest of the moderation on that forum.

Please elaborate.

Just go read the part of his post that concerns mass-derailing on the part of locked political discussions.

EDIT: Also, not a problem at all? Threads are derailed left and right.

In non-GD? Mostly only because we discuss something else. What the fuck is wrong with picking up an interesting debate when it arrises?

ut you have to take into account that not everyone who finds Ch1ef annoying necesarrily puts him on ignore

You're the one that used the list as an argument.

but merely that it's very easy to spot who's popular and who isn't by looking at that list.

Alright. List the names of those you want to ban then.

I guarantee you there won't be a unanimous voting to ban them.

In conclusion, I understand every single one of your points, and it would have been much easier to call you a gigantic faggot. But you're kind of a nice guy, so fuck that: I have been a resident at the Watch (lurking), SHS, Planepocket Group, Gibberlings 3, ITS (lurking), Bioware forums, and much, much more. No where have I had the lulz that the Codex can provide, and no where I have been able to speak so honestly, as the Codex.

The only place that comes remotely close i Pocketplane, because they generally have very light moderation.

You should go read DU's post though. He's much better at the whole Obama-Braveheart speeches than I am.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I, for one, am grateful for DU's policy. It makes this place the only place I know that doesn't enforce any sort of moral behavior and the results are no so bad. Without the Codex, I wouldn't know about any results, since all other sites (and society at large) are so afraid of what would happen, that they never give it a try.

So let this place stay as it is, if only for experiment's sake. With order reigning supreme everywhere, a little pocket of chaos is more than welcome, it's vital.

 

[Luzur]

 

[Liberal]

I, for one, am grateful for DU's policy. It makes this place the only place I know that doesn't enforce any sort of moral behavior and the results are no so bad. Without the Codex, I wouldn't know about any results, since all other sites (and society at large) are so afraid of what would happen, that they never give it a try.

So let this place stay as it is, if only for experiment's sake. With order reigning supreme everywhere, a little pocket of chaos is more than welcome, it's vital.

STFU.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

STFU.

Ban plz.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Accepting the niggerjews is the price we pay for allowing those "heated conversations".

False. Heated conversations can (and often are) had without that particular word, proving that banning it doesn't prevent them. Your entire point is based on a false assertion, hence it is false.

Banning it also doesn't change anything. What's the real difference if someone calls someone a "niggerjew" instead of perhaps telling them to "put more points into perception"? We're all smart enough here to know there's no difference between the two.

Very true. Also debates often get extremely hot and offensive without even using "bad words" or personal insults.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

^guys don't derail the discussion or I'll ask a mod to lock this thread

edit: indeed, there is zero difference between "ur a retarded niggerjew" and

Do you suffer from a mental disability perhaps? Does it affect your ability to read at an adult level?

in fact, the latter example is worse, imo. Reminds me of the smug smartass-wannabes you have to tolerate IRL. Direct, honest insults among equals doesn't lower the level of discussions per se (which is why you can call a friend a fucking son of a bitch and he won't care)

 

[GarfunkeL]

Seems that the -people are all for the hypocrisy of coarse vs clever word use; where coarse language is forbidden but clever and witty insults are approved of. It's always fun to insult someone so eloquently that they don't even understand it but please allow the non-native speakers and the retards to have some way of come back.

 

[spacemoose]

I've already asked the mods to lock this thread. maybe you should have put more points into perception

 

[Naked Ninja]

What's the real difference if someone calls someone a "niggerjew" instead of perhaps telling them to "put more points into perception"? We're all smart enough here to know there's no difference between the two.

You can't tell the difference between calling someone's opinion stupid/imperceptive and a racial slur? Really?

Really?

Wow. Ok, I'm done with this conversation then, you've just emphasized what a waste of time it is.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

How is "niggerjew" anything but total nonsense? Unless you're an Ethiopean Jew (of which there are probably not that many on the Codex), how could you possibly take that seriously?

 

[Futile Rhetoric]

What's the real difference if someone calls someone a "niggerjew" instead of perhaps telling them to "put more points into perception"? We're all smart enough here to know there's no difference between the two.

You can't tell the difference between calling someone's opinion stupid/imperceptive and a racial slur? Really?

You're right, the former is far more offensive.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Except black people and jews and anyone who isn't a racist.

I imagine they can speak for themselves and don't need whitey to rush in their defense to show how nice and tolerating he is.

minor edit: And by "they", I'm including myself, since as a brazilian, I have a lot of nigger in my family. However, I also have a penis, so no panties are twisted

Your true motives revealed. The desire for entertainment-via-lulz as opposed to intelligent discourse. I'm fine with that, but please stop pretending the Codex is anything but a playpen then. Just change the name to Memedex and be done.

You can have both lulz AND intelligent discussions, you know. It's not like the shit occupies precious internet space so serious arguments magically disappear.

Anything that requires that to grow isn't worthy of the title 'intellect'.

Says who? Wait, let me guess - "any smart person, duh".

Like, you, for example.

You can't tell the difference between calling someone's opinion stupid/imperceptive and a racial slur? Really?

1 - both are insults, prettier words don't mean you're classier

2 - Calling someone a retard who can't read like an adult is not the same as saying their opinion is horrible, don't weasel out plz

Do you suffer from a mental disability perhaps? Does it affect your ability to read at an adult level?

Basically, you hate personal attacks that don't sound smart / are too direct, but are fine with calling people retards if you do so in a smug way.

tl;dr: yet another hypocrite, nothing to see here.

 

[Vault Dweller]

As someone who has been here since 2003, I beg to differ. Stupidity does tend to breed more stupidity and attract people who are here because they can say "fuck" and bitch about jews and niggers.

Speaking of words: "Fuck" appears in VD's posts 691 times.

What's your point? Surely you see the difference between people who swear and people who love the Codex because you can swear? The latter are here for the wrong reasons.

... and nigger once.

Context?

Banning those words...

Have I ever advocated banning any words?

Oh and incidentally:

I don't care about Jew jokes or Black jokes, but I strongly dislike when some shit makes fun of thousands (millions, in this case) people being senselessly killed. It's not about Jews. It's about genocide. Someone cracking a joke about, say, 1.5 mil Armenians killed in Turkey will be promptly banned as well. There is a difference between discussing a matter and finding something funny in murder of millions.

First it was inappropriate jokes about the holocaust, and jew and black jokes were fine, then nazi jokes were bad and "fuck" was fine, now "fuck" is bad... Who was it that spoke of the slippery slope earlier?

Both links are about the same event: idiots laughing at pictures showing Nazi mass executions and cracking jokes about it. First, it's hardly a "Nazi joke". Second, there is no "THEN nazi jokes were bad". It's the same event discussed in two different threads.

 

[Grunker]

Out of that whole post, you respond to two points, VD?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's actually better to focus on the most important points. As you might remember, on the cat pics thread me and DraQ tried to respond to each one of each other's points, and as a result we got unreadable walls of text.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I responded to what was addressed at me. If you want me to comment on what DU said to NN, I'll be more than happy to do so. Give me a few min.

 

[Grunker]

I responded to what was addressed at me. If you want me to comment on what DU said to NN, I'll be more than happy to do so. Give me a few min.

Nah, don't bother. I'm just blind (I thought the whole post was addressed to you).

 

[Vault Dweller]

Banning it also doesn't change anything. What's the real difference if someone calls someone a "niggerjew" instead of perhaps telling them to "put more points into perception"? We're all smart enough here to know there's no difference between the two.

We are also smart enough here to know that there is no difference between a lengthy post addressing game's flaws and "shit" or "suck" or "banal. shit. boring." Have I made my point or would you like me elaborate?

That's the point though. The Codex isn't about intelligent conversation at the cost of all else.

At the cost of what else, exactly? If you say that the freedom of some 14 year old to behave like an imbecile is more important than having intelligent conversations, then I'd definitely disagree with you there, especially since in the early days the Codex was mostly known for the strength of its discussions. I don't think that anyone would deny that this is no longer the case. I would be nice if that bothered you a bit.

The Codex is about allowing members the freedom to express their opinions and then get chewed out for them, no matter what that opinion is.

It works when the ratio of intelligent posters to dumbfucks is 10:1. It doesn't work when the ratio is 1:10. Not enough chew power.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The "It's popular so now it sucks" adage is valid here, not because popularity itself is bad, but because it tends to attract the unwashed masses (aka dumbing down, decline, etc).

As for Astromarine and others like him, they are right - with lots of users, odds are most won't be able to hold a good, valuable argument.

So, what's the solution? Do the UK thing and praise our new multicult friends, making them as comfortable as possible, or expect them to become productive members and throw out those who are here for the wrong reasons?

 

[King Crispy]

How about "coming back" and helping to drown out the dumbfuckery with what you believe to be worthwhile discussion?

 

[spacemoose]

The Codex is about allowing members the freedom to express their opinions and then get chewed out for them, no matter what that opinion is.

It works when the ratio of intelligent posters to dumbfucks is 10:1. It doesn't work when the ratio is 1:10. Not enough chew power.

and their horrible apinion will go on unchewed

o fortuna

 

[denizsi]

I've hated the way VD's moderation took a turn for faggotry towards the end times, but this:

The Codex is about allowing members the freedom to express their opinions and then get chewed out for them, no matter what that opinion is.

It works when the ratio of intelligent posters to dumbfucks is 10:1. It doesn't work when the ratio is 1:10. Not enough chew power.

Is valid, even if it's defeatist talk.

The Muhammad drawings are a great way to illustrate my point. The drawers wanted to start a debate on Islam, which is cool, but the means they used to start this debate ensured that it ended before it began, and no one gained anything from it other than hate and animosity. What was the point, really? We can all agree that the muslims are over-sensitive and fanatic when it comes to their religion (just like people on the Bioware forums are allergic to the word "fuck"), but offending them like the way we did never solved anything.

You are a pussy. Following is my argument for why I used that defaming word:

The situation with muslims is as much "us against them" as it goes. If you want to coexist with muslims, there are only two ways: Up (towards peace and tolerance) or down (towards becoming muslims' bitches). Guess which way the west is going?

A significant (not majority, but significant enough to scare the shit out of neoliberaltards) amount of muslims living in the west are terrorists, eg. people who terrorize a society and forces them to submit to their demands out of fear. Forget about Al-Qaeda, bombers and all that shit that retards are brainwashed to believe to be terrorism. Real terrorists are those who live in your backyard and make you feel insecure in your own home. There is no negotiating with terrorists. You can't give them special treatment over anybody else. You need to treat them as you would anyone as aggressively as you can or they will never understand, they will never evolve. They will forever stay as the spoilt brat of the west. If muslims want to live in the west, they must first come to understand, then to accept and finally tolerate every aspect of the west.

It's those like you who are always concerned and scared like a helpless little child that give in to ridiculous demands and help raise oppressive banners of neoliberalism further. Therefore, you are a pussy.

 

[Trash]

Seems more secular army officers get arrested each day by the Islamic government for "plotting". Is this indeed a silent coup by the islamists? I wouldn't be surprised to see Turkey turn into Iran light within a year or two.