Diablo 2: Resurrected remaster

[luj1]

well i have been playing Diablo 2, Heroes 3, Dota, Morrowind and NWN every year for about 20 years

You, Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

I also keep coming back to SMAC and Quake

Quality doesn't age, only second-rate plebeians think that

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

I love these types of games, and I wish they could grow further ... but nobody seems up to the task.

Cant grow more than MedianXL or ToME

I agree, classic Brother Laz MedianXL is peak D2.

PD2 has surpassed it, IMO. I don't really care about the more "high end" stuff it adds like maps, I am more interested in the overall skill and item balance they have done, whereas mods like MedianXL don't seem to have done that work. For the average HC run, having actually usable skill trees is a big plus compared to some nifty extra QoL.

Some things dont need innovation, they were already perfected

at this point u just need a facelift + QoL (but they even manage to screw that up)

I think there is like 1 worthy remaster in the world, that being Starcraft remaster

I generally like the Enhanced Editions of the Infinity Engine games, too.

Also System Shock: Enhanced (when it's not broken, that is).

 

[Dadd]

PD2 and Median XL are too different to say one surpassed the other. PD2 focuses on quality-of-life changes, rebalancing items and skills; it's more like a big official patch. Added locations are done much better in MXL: mapping in PD2 is boring and feels inadequately integrated into the game. PD2 butchers the skill tree, with ridiculously high amounts of skill points needed for synergies. The main guy behind PD2 is obsessed with strengthening melee and the idea of balance across classes. Just a season or two ago, well-geared melee characters could kill Rathma with normal attack (the thing that every class starts with) relatively easily, while casters that required similar effort to build needed to be played extremely carefully with much knowledge, and even then just a small mistake often led to getting killed.

 

[Perkel]

I love these types of games, and I wish they could grow further ... but nobody seems up to the task.

Cant grow more than MedianXL or ToME

I agree, classic Brother Laz MedianXL is peak D2.

Peak D2 is vanilla D2 without LoD and before they introduced synergies in patch. You can still play that with D2R as it comes with vanilla D2 mode and there is mod to get out synergies and bring monster stats to those before synergies (and before immunities)

- runes horribly fucked loot as 99% of loot is garbage compared to runeword
- synergies fucked up skills because they basically forced you to use premade builds by devs (those with synergies) rather than look for fun combinations
- because synergies fucked up skills and made everyone play one skill instead of many they introduced in patch immunities in hell to force people use alternative skill.
- LoD added too many of huge sell items which made gold essentially infinite early on where it is most needed in campaign.

The only thing that D2 vanilla had problem with was mana. Higher skills were supposed to be a lot more mana intensive so that you would mix lower skills that could provide you with power in attriction war and higher end skills who would attack groups but choke up your mana in one gulp. In the end mana was too abundant. LoD worsened that problem even more.

D2 had tight system which as game patches and expansion were released gradually got fucked up and started to be warped.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

D1 is very primitive by comparison, granted, but I find myself enjoying it more because it functions more as a game and less of an item-hunting simulator.

I still think it's mostly about length. D1 remains the only hns that's not way too long for its own good and has a structure that actually works with its intended nature of multiple playthroughs. All the following games in the genre are basically an exercise in who can get this more wrong even if they introduce some nice mechanical improvements and what not.

It's that and also maybe the fact that D1 absolutely killed it with the presentation, music and atmosphere.

 

[Perkel]

When it comes to loot D1 is still above D2. Sure it doesn't have uniques, set items etc. system is a lot simpler but the difference between low tier and high tier gear is so vast that you can find at any point upgrade that will get you to end game. It has perfect ratio of how things drop.

And i played D1 after D2 and POE mind you.

 

[Atlantico]

I tried POE once.

Once.

 

[Lacrymas]

Grim Dawn is better than D2, I'd even say Titan Quest is better than D2.

 

[Just Locus]

Grim Dawn is better than D2 [...]

This has to come with the caveat that Grim Dawn released 16 years after Diablo II, it had the time and ability to learn from D2's failures and successes.

 

[e-mailio estevez]

I generally like playing hardcore, but I've never been able to enjoy playing it online. With lag spikes and disconnects there are too many factors that can take control out of your hands and kill your character. D2R even had some issue where you could be attacked while waypointing into certain areas- I'm thinking Arreat Plateau specifically- and losing a character in the middle of a loading screen sounds infuriating.

I had a great time doing Hardcore runs in Din's Curse this past year, however, and couldn't imagine playing it any other way.

 

[luj1]

I love these types of games, and I wish they could grow further ... but nobody seems up to the task.

Cant grow more than MedianXL or ToME

I agree, classic Brother Laz MedianXL is peak D2.

Peak D2 is vanilla D2 without LoD and before they introduced synergies in patch. You can still play that with D2R as it comes with vanilla D2 mode and there is mod to get out synergies and bring monster stats to those before synergies (and before immunities)

- runes horribly fucked loot as 99% of loot is garbage compared to runeword
- synergies fucked up skills because they basically forced you to use premade builds by devs (those with synergies) rather than look for fun combinations
- because synergies fucked up skills and made everyone play one skill instead of many they introduced in patch immunities in hell to force people use alternative skill.
- LoD added to of items which made gold essentially infinite early on where it is most needed in campaign.

The only thing that D2 vanilla had problem with was mana. Higher skills were supposed to be a lot more mana intensive so that you would mix lower skills that could provide you with power in attriction war and higher end skills who would attack groups but choke up your mana in one gulp. In the end mana was too abundant. LoD worsened that problem even more.

D2 had tight system which as game patches and expansion was released gradually got fucked up and started to be warped.

Have to agree

Sanest post ITT

 

[luj1]

Grim Dawn is better than D2 [...]

This has to come with the caveat that Grim Dawn released 16 years after Diablo II, it had the time and ability to learn from D2's failures and successes.

... and it still isn't better lol

 

[Lacrymas]

But it is better. It has way more content, it's more challenging, it has more viable builds and builds in general aren't hamstrung by synergies, it's still being actively developed (an expansion is on the way), itemization isn't ruined by runewords, etc. I honestly don't see the appeal of D2.

 

[Average Manatee]

The real redpill is that there are no good diablo 2/clone games, its a very simplistic and degenerate genre with a skill cap in the basement and with the only depth coming from a million different NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS mechanics that 99% of players won't interact with beyond reading a guide to what the meta builds are.

Not saying they aren't fun, I have probably a thousand hours in Diablo 2 and some hundreds of Grim Dawn. But let's not kid ourselves about the quality of what we are playing.

 

[luj1]

there is mod to get out synergies and bring monster stats to those before synergies (and before immunities)

Found it: D2 retro

https://www.nexusmods.com/diablo2resurrected/mods/312

 

[Perkel]

But it is better. It has way more content, it's more challenging, it has more viable builds and builds in general aren't hamstrung by synergies, it's still being actively developed (an expansion is on the way), itemization isn't ruined by runewords, etc. I honestly don't see the appeal of D2.

Played at least 200-300h of GD and imho it has major issues for competing at the top of ARPG pack. IT is right behind top games. It mainly suffers from quantity over quality which is mostly down to its kickstarter roots where they didn't have much cash and needed to churn out content as fast as they could.
The chimeric soul of game doesn't help either where game was devised as more of an RPG than ARPG and then was shoved into full blown zoomy ARPG so the things that it does great like theme, worlddesign etc. become passing thought to player who doesn't care much about story in his arpg/porn game.
I really hope Crate will do GD2 with proper money and time to build things.

 

[Reinhardt]

D1 doesn't have uniques

 

[Perkel]

D1 doesn't have uniques

In sense that none of those uniques were "unique" in same way D2 aspired them to be.

D1 strength comes from itemization of just blue/rare items which is better than D2. The amount of them falling and the way you can get boost from loot meant that you always looked at them. D2 is superior to most of ARPGs in that sense but D1 beats it despite not having "uniques", set items and so on.

 

[Peachcurl]

D1 doesn't have uniques

In sense that none of those uniques were "unique" in same way D2 aspired them to be.

They are unique in exactly the same way. I think you are still not really getting your point across. Are you sure you didn't just forget they existed and are now trying to engineer a flimsy justification for your original statement?

 

[Perkel]

They are unique in exactly the same way. I think you are still not really getting your point across. Are you sure you didn't just forget they existed and are now trying to engineer a flimsy justification for your original statement?

If i forgot about them then i wouldn't even need to defend myself because they are completely forgettable in first place. Please check first what those "uniques" do.

They are not like D2 ones which you can build around. They are mostly rares with "unique" name and slightly better stats. Hell rares can still do rounds around them.

Either way my point was that WITHOUT set items and "proper" uniques the loot in D1 is BETTER than D2 with those. Because it is better structured, drops are more meaningful and good item can give you huge boost that can drop anywhere in game even at start and the rolls are not that restricted like in D2 where "good" items even first shortswords with good mods start to drop like half into game. Yes there is progression but it much more lax.

I still remember sword i found at start of game with my second char which lasted me about half of game.

 

[Arbiter]

They are not like D2 ones which you can build around. They are mostly rares with "unique" name and slightly better stats. Hell rares can still do rounds around them.

There were no rares in D1.

Some D1 uniques had exclusive effects:
Gotterdammerung: all resistances set to 0: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Gotterdammerung
Thinking Cap: all spells +2 levels: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Skull_Cap_(Diablo_I)
The Grandfather: 1-handed variant of a great sword: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/The_Grandfather_(Diablo_I)
Stormshield: +damage from enemies: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Stormshield_(Diablo_I)

 

[Ryzer]

They are not like D2 ones which you can build around. They are mostly rares with "unique" name and slightly better stats. Hell rares can still do rounds around them.

There were no rares in D1.

Some D1 uniques had exclusive effects:
Gotterdammerung: all resistances set to 0: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Gotterdammerung
Thinking Cap: all spells +2 levels: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Skull_Cap_(Diablo_I)
The Grandfather: 1-handed variant of a great sword: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/The_Grandfather_(Diablo_I)
Stormshield: +damage from enemies: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Stormshield_(Diablo_I)

Yeah it was decline in Diablo 2, the first game was far better in this area. Each unique offers truly unique abilities.

 

[Perkel]

They are not like D2 ones which you can build around. They are mostly rares with "unique" name and slightly better stats. Hell rares can still do rounds around them.

There were no rares in D1.

Some D1 uniques had exclusive effects:
Gotterdammerung: all resistances set to 0: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Gotterdammerung
Thinking Cap: all spells +2 levels: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Skull_Cap_(Diablo_I)
The Grandfather: 1-handed variant of a great sword: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/The_Grandfather_(Diablo_I)
Stormshield: +damage from enemies: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Stormshield_(Diablo_I)

I gave a link to lists of uniques. Those were like handful and you are really stretching it with +/- damage from enemies. They are nothing like D2 ones where you had unique abilities etc.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I remember getting a Thinking Cap then searching endlessly for that shrine which improved the durability of equipped items. I don't think I ever found one, lol.

 

[Reinhardt]

Those were like handful

isn't that the point of UNIQUES? unique named items found in the designated area. they shouldn't drop like candies from random mobs.