Diablo IV

[ADL]

Wow, someone unironically complaining about PoE monetization and even saying is worse than SC...
Even worse someone going: Not surprised. "Free" games are bullshit. after, believing the retard. PoE is an actual free game with more content than many AAA priced games.

Bonus points for retards like ADL: there's about 0 chance D4 won't have on top similar monetization as PoE.

Good to know that even people here will unironically defend lootboxes and a $309 set of lazily put together armor cosmetics if it's being sold in their sacred cow of a video game.

I didn't blame you there actually. Just pointing out how much dmg retarded shit like ADL posted actually causes. With the current market it's very easy to believe a game is predatory.

But everything is in the details. Cosmetics are priced the way they are for PoE because they need to compensate for the game being free and getting meaningful content several times per year.
We get mental gymnastics about how buying power is fine if you can get the same playing some game for 10000+ hours meanwhile this retard is throwing stones at an actual free game with cosmetics. And he made it seem worse than SC which is ...

It is predatory. Far more predatory than Star Citizen is. Let me know when Star Citizen starts selling gambling boxes. At least the concept jpgs are what you eventually get in game to specification. Poorly implemented leagues developed by outsourced development studios while GGG spends 4-5 years on another campaign for people to be annoyed at playing through over and over and over again doesn't justify GGG's monetization. Especially when those poorly implemented league mechanics are being used to push more stash tab sales on top of paid transmog, lootboxes, supporter packs and housing crap.

Even this cape that clips through everything and looks like shit is being sold for $46. What a complete and utter joke.

 

[Peachcurl]

At least the concept jpgs are what you eventually get in game to specification.

 

[Sunri]

Wow, someone unironically complaining about PoE monetization and even saying is worse than SC...
Even worse someone going: Not surprised. "Free" games are bullshit. after, believing the retard. PoE is an actual free game with more content than many AAA priced games.

Bonus points for retards like ADL: there's about 0 chance D4 won't have on top similar monetization as PoE.

Good to know that even people here will unironically defend lootboxes and a $309 set of lazily put together armor cosmetics if it's being sold in their sacred cow of a video game.

I didn't blame you there actually. Just pointing out how much dmg retarded shit like ADL posted actually causes. With the current market it's very easy to believe a game is predatory.

But everything is in the details. Cosmetics are priced the way they are for PoE because they need to compensate for the game being free and getting meaningful content several times per year.
We get mental gymnastics about how buying power is fine if you can get the same playing some game for 10000+ hours meanwhile this retard is throwing stones at an actual free game with cosmetics. And he made it seem worse than SC which is ...

It is predatory. Far more predatory than Star Citizen is. Let me know when Star Citizen starts selling gambling boxes. At least the concept jpgs are what you eventually get in game to specification. Poorly implemented leagues developed by outsourced development studios while GGG spends 4-5 years on another campaign for people to be annoyed at playing through over and over and over again doesn't justify GGG's monetization. Especially when those poorly implemented league mechanics are being used to push more stash tab sales on top of paid transmog, lootboxes, supporter packs and housing crap.

Even this cape that clips through everything and looks like shit is being sold for $46. What a complete and utter joke.

I like to think that this exists only to support the dev and free game I bought poe support pak once because I wanted to support the GGG not because I wanted some skin

 

[mediocrepoet]

Wow, someone unironically complaining about PoE monetization and even saying is worse than SC...
Even worse someone going: Not surprised. "Free" games are bullshit. after, believing the retard. PoE is an actual free game with more content than many AAA priced games.

Bonus points for retards like ADL: there's about 0 chance D4 won't have on top similar monetization as PoE.

Good to know that even people here will unironically defend lootboxes and a $309 set of lazily put together armor cosmetics if it's being sold in their sacred cow of a video game.

I didn't blame you there actually. Just pointing out how much dmg retarded shit like ADL posted actually causes. With the current market it's very easy to believe a game is predatory.

But everything is in the details. Cosmetics are priced the way they are for PoE because they need to compensate for the game being free and getting meaningful content several times per year.
We get mental gymnastics about how buying power is fine if you can get the same playing some game for 10000+ hours meanwhile this retard is throwing stones at an actual free game with cosmetics. And he made it seem worse than SC which is ...

It is predatory. Far more predatory than Star Citizen is. Let me know when Star Citizen starts selling gambling boxes. At least the concept jpgs are what you eventually get in game to specification. Poorly implemented leagues developed by outsourced development studios while GGG spends 4-5 years on another campaign for people to be annoyed at playing through over and over and over again doesn't justify GGG's monetization. Especially when those poorly implemented league mechanics are being used to push more stash tab sales on top of paid transmog, lootboxes, supporter packs and housing crap.

Even this cape that clips through everything and looks like shit is being sold for $46. What a complete and utter joke.

I like to think that this exists only to support the dev and free game I bought poe support pak once because I wanted to support the GGG not because I wanted some skin

I tend to agree with Sunri's take here. Besides, my comments about POE's monetization (other than finding a $400 pack to be gross on principle, but no one's forcing anyone to buy it, so... and it's not like I haven't spent sums like that on Kickstarter projects), were mostly aimed at ADL's assertion that the POE packs included stuff like storage slots that were more or less required. If that's not true and it's cosmetics and stuff that's nice to have but not necessary by any stretch, then that's completely fine since it just gives fans a direct way of supporting the devs + a bit of a thank you in return.

Star Citizen gives everyone a way of supporting the devs' extravagant lifestyles and get a thank you in the form of ship models that float around in janky nothingness.

At the end of the day, I prefer POE's approach. Develop an actually free game, let people who love it reward you for what you delivered. That's about as non-predatory as it gets. By contrast, Star Citizen developed nothing except a list of "promises" that will never see the light of day and collected money. That is a scam by definition.

 

[Lim-Dûl]

Wow, someone unironically complaining about PoE monetization and even saying is worse than SC...
Even worse someone going: Not surprised. "Free" games are bullshit. after, believing the retard. PoE is an actual free game with more content than many AAA priced games.

Bonus points for retards like ADL: there's about 0 chance D4 won't have on top similar monetization as PoE.

Good to know that even people here will unironically defend lootboxes and a $309 set of lazily put together armor cosmetics if it's being sold in their sacred cow of a video game.

I didn't blame you there actually. Just pointing out how much dmg retarded shit like ADL posted actually causes. With the current market it's very easy to believe a game is predatory.

But everything is in the details. Cosmetics are priced the way they are for PoE because they need to compensate for the game being free and getting meaningful content several times per year.
We get mental gymnastics about how buying power is fine if you can get the same playing some game for 10000+ hours meanwhile this retard is throwing stones at an actual free game with cosmetics. And he made it seem worse than SC which is ...

It is predatory. Far more predatory than Star Citizen is. Let me know when Star Citizen starts selling gambling boxes. At least the concept jpgs are what you eventually get in game to specification. Poorly implemented leagues developed by outsourced development studios while GGG spends 4-5 years on another campaign for people to be annoyed at playing through over and over and over again doesn't justify GGG's monetization. Especially when those poorly implemented league mechanics are being used to push more stash tab sales on top of paid transmog, lootboxes, supporter packs and housing crap.

Even this cape that clips through everything and looks like shit is being sold for $46. What a complete and utter joke.

This stuff has no effect on how your character performs in-game. Your argument is a complete and utter joke. It's so bad that I'm wondering if you even believe your own words or are you just practicing your pilpul skills anonymously?

 

[Kjaska]

All in all though, I do think all of these sorts of monetization scheme are decline that only benefits shareholders and will likely crater a significant portion, if not the entire, hobby at some point.

These monetization schemes is what allows GGG to release a new league every 13 weeks for free, while simultaneously making PoE2 (which is also going to release for free).

Good to know that even people here will unironically defend lootboxes and a $309 set of lazily put together armor cosmetics if it's being sold in their sacred cow of a video game.

The PoE lootbox is easily the least predatory implementation in the entire industry. You can no longer get duplicates, effectively putting a cap on the total amount spent until you get "the one thing I really want". You can also ask GGG to disable the ability to purchase them, if you're one of those weaklings who just can't help himself but spend his entire paycheck on digital swag. Calling this predatory while posting in a Blizzard thread is peak retardation.

Gambling is just like any other vice - completely fine when done in moderation.

Poorly implemented leagues developed by outsourced development studios while GGG spends 4-5 years on another campaign for people to be annoyed at playing through over and over and over again doesn't justify GGG's monetization. Especially when those poorly implemented league mechanics are being used to push more stash tab sales on top of paid transmog, lootboxes, supporter packs and housing crap.

This is just complete nonsense that you're pulling out of your ass. For over a year now every league has been launching with a free stash dedicated to the league mechanic. Not to mention the ability to set any regular tab as the designated tab for a specific type of loot. You're sound like a complete nut job that thinks that Chris Wolcen is out to get you and your wallet.

Even this cape that clips through everything and looks like shit is being sold for $46. What a complete and utter joke.

So don't fucking buy it. What's so predatory about it? Stop posting, you're out of your depth.

 

[mediocrepoet]

All in all though, I do think all of these sorts of monetization scheme are decline that only benefits shareholders and will likely crater a significant portion, if not the entire, hobby at some point.

These monetization schemes is what allows GGG to release a new league every 13 weeks for free, while simultaneously making PoE2 (which is also going to release for free).

Yeah fair enough. I was more speaking about the trend in general - Diablo Immortal has been on my mind a lot simply because it's so gross and has infected what was once a classic title, to the point that its made a lot of people including myself concerned about what it means for D4 and other games in general.

As mentioned above, I think that a completely optional set of cosmetics and possibly actually optional QOL stuff is about as non-predatory as you can get. It's not like I expect anyone to work out of the good of their hearts and starve to death on the street.

 

[ADL]

By contrast, Star Citizen developed nothing except a list of "promises" that will never see the light of day and collected money. That is a scam by definition.

Bullshit. But that's for a different thread.

For over a year now every league has been launching with a free stash dedicated to the league mechanic.

Doesn't change the fact that they'd been doing it for about a decade prior. Did they give those stash tabs to everyone retroactively and reimburse everyone who bought them over the years? No? Go eat shit then. Those stash tabs are mandatory and will easily run you $60-$70 in points. I'll consider that the box price. Suddenly the "best free game" I keep hearing about became just as expensive as every other game out there.
btw forgot about the $30 battle pass on top of their supporter packs https://www.pathofexile.com/vault

Gambling is just like any other vice - completely fine when done in moderation.

When existing consumer protections and regulatory oversight is applied to it, sure but you forgot that really important part. Especially the part where gambling is illegal under the age of 18-21 and can't be marketed to individuals under that age either.

"It's just cosmetic" was always a bad take but it's extremely fucking dumb for an isometric aRPG where your character is front and center literally every second you play the game. I added up the total on another set called the Midnight Pact. $182 for the whole set. Even with a special tab discount that brings it down 30% assuming the buyer is willing to wait for five different sales. That's still $152 for a single cosmetic set.

tl;dr "it's okay when Chris Wilson does it" - you and every brain dead retard ITT

 

[Shadenuat]

How a mage become better at casting fireballs :

• Diablo 1 = Reading tomes
• Diablo 2 = Investing skill points
• Diablo 3 = Finding an bigger and sharper axe
• Diablo Immortal = Lootbox for gems
• Diablo 4 = ???

ironically seems like 3 tried to fix the amateur mistake which damages greatly a rogue game: martials being dependant on rng and exploration (or more like, grinding), while casters being, well less dependant on it (with grinding gear for "muh build" with your sorc cause without it "muh build" can barely function).
4 would probably feature more muh build and such boring stuff, because that's what developers believe makes and rpg: frontloading some choice/customisation into charscreen. They don't know that roleplaying is supposed to happen in the actual game. And so when you twirl your staff twice, then on third strike, it has 20% chance, to cast ice bolt, but at 20% chance, it doesn't, but increases your damage, but 20%, at 20% chance.
at 20% chance it does nothing though.
actually, such designs just do nothing anyway.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Doesn't change the fact that they'd been doing it for about a decade prior. Did they give those stash tabs to everyone retroactively and reimburse everyone who bought them over the years? No? Go eat shit then. Those stash tabs are mandatory and will easily run you $60-$70 in points. I'll consider that the box price. Suddenly the "best free game" I keep hearing about became just as expensive as every other game out there.
btw forgot about the $30 battle pass on top of their supporter packs https://www.pathofexile.com/vault

I think this is a pretty reasonable take, especially about the stash tabs. But even if it is required, I still wouldn't say it's predatory so much as allowing you to try the game and seeing if you like it enough to pony up or bounce off of it.

Battle passes are gay, but whether that's a big deal or not depends on whether the rewards are mandatory, even if a soft mandatory (e.g. you can level up with battle pass quickly though it'd take you like a month to grind a level without it).

"It's just cosmetic" was always a bad take but it's extremely fucking dumb for an isometric aRPG where your character is front and center literally every second you play the game.

Aren't you the one who just bitched that you can't even see your character under all the swirling light crap? You can't have this one both ways. Given how small your characters are in this isometric genre and POE specifically, my two cents is that it doesn't really matter at all since you'll only notice it in your fucking character screens like character select, inventory, etc.

Cosmetics matter even less if you're not really playing with other people since you won't care about showing off to others. You're pushing an agenda so hard, you're going to throw out your back.

 

[Cryomancer]

How a mage become better at casting fireballs :

• Diablo 1 = Reading tomes
• Diablo 2 = Investing skill points
• Diablo 3 = Finding an bigger and sharper axe
• Diablo Immortal = Lootbox for gems
• Diablo 4 = ???

ironically seems like 3 tried to fix the amateur mistake which damages greatly a rogue game: martials being dependant on rng and exploration (or more like, grinding), while casters being, well less dependant on it (with grinding gear for "muh build" with your sorc cause without it "muh build" can barely function).
4 would probably feature more muh build and such boring stuff, because that's what developers believe makes and rpg: frontloading some choice/customisation into charscreen. They don't know that roleplaying is supposed to happen in the actual game. And so when you twirl your staff twice, then on third strike, it has 20% chance, to cast ice bolt, but at 20% chance, it doesn't, but increases your damage, but 20%, at 20% chance.
at 20% chance it does nothing though.
actually, such designs just do nothing anyway.

Casters being gear dependent is an wow bastartization. Casters should depend on rare tomes/scrolls, not in a freaking axe!!!

 

[Shadenuat]

POE cosmetics are a problem, but not critical one. What kind of problem they are, well, similar to how WoTC now prints walking dead characters as magic the gathering legendary cards. Supposedly a fantasy game about planeswalking, now it allows that kind of kitsch.
Setting is the greatest treasure of an RPG. By allowing any kitsch into it on any level, anywhere, you break the purpose of the setting and players immersion in it, as now it can be treated as a joke.
It's a minimal problem for POE, really. But it is one, and shows that developers are ready to trade good taste in presentation of their fictional world for cash.

 

[mediocrepoet]

How a mage become better at casting fireballs :

• Diablo 1 = Reading tomes
• Diablo 2 = Investing skill points
• Diablo 3 = Finding an bigger and sharper axe
• Diablo Immortal = Lootbox for gems
• Diablo 4 = ???

ironically seems like 3 tried to fix the amateur mistake which damages greatly a rogue game: martials being dependant on rng and exploration (or more like, grinding), while casters being, well less dependant on it (with grinding gear for "muh build" with your sorc cause without it "muh build" can barely function).
4 would probably feature more muh build and such boring stuff, because that's what developers believe makes and rpg: frontloading some choice/customisation into charscreen. They don't know that roleplaying is supposed to happen in the actual game. And so when you twirl your staff twice, then on third strike, it has 20% chance, to cast ice bolt, but at 20% chance, it doesn't, but increases your damage, but 20%, at 20% chance.
at 20% chance it does nothing though.
actually, such designs just do nothing anyway.

Casters being gear dependent is an wow bastartization. Casters should depend on rare tomes/scrolls, not in a freaking axe!!!

This is kinda retarded Victor. Tomes/scrolls are also gear. Besides, if you changed the code of D3 to make a wizard's drops scrolls and books instead of swords and axes and made him equip a book instead of an axe... maybe even have an animation where he melee smacks stuff with a book for some of his attacks, is that better?

 

[mediocrepoet]

POE cosmetics are a problem, but not critical one. What kind of problem they are, well, similar to how WoTC now prints walking dead characters as magic the gathering legendary cards. Supposedly a fantasy game about planeswalking, now it allows that kind of kitsch.
Setting is the greatest treasure of an RPG. By allowing any kitsch into it on any level, anywhere, you break the purpose of the setting and players immersion in it, as now it can be treated as a joke.
It's a minimal problem for POE, really. But it is one, and shows that developers are ready to trade good taste in presentation of their fictional world for cash.

I've played POE for something like 2 hours total, ever. Is it much of a multiplayer game? Like, do you see other players at all and/or without inviting them into your game?

If you don't and it's generally a single player experience, I'd say that whether that presentation thing is an issue at all is up to the individual player. If you see other people's bling all the time, then maybe. I tend to file ARPGs in a slightly different category than "proper" RPGs, but that being said, the MMO lite aspect of D4 was the stuff I was least impressed with. Now it's the monetization... I suppose your complaint would also link these two things together for D4.

 

[Shadenuat]

Nice you said it's Victor, or I would never guessed and could update new Victor persona.

Tomes or not, it's only fair that all characters in dark postapoc satanic fantasy are equally dependant on what they can barely scrap from poor lit dungeons. Wizards, really, should be even more dependant there, with maybe even trading their HP permanently for new spell n similar stuff.

If you see other people's bling all the time, then maybe

I mostly SSFd but you can see ppl in towns.

However, I don't think this argument stands in, well, idealistic sort of view of problem.

If your game is about 5 prisoner fellas who washed on a shore and have to fight for scraps to survive, why would you allow player to look any other way than pale loli witch in dirty dress with a skull on a stick?
This option clashes with your general art presentation regardless if you can buy it or not buy or see or not see. Whats up with stupid wings? or pets? or whatever games usually sell.

Basically, i m saying, if you ARE going to monetize cosmetics, at least try and do it tastefully.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I mostly SSFd but you can see ppl in towns.

However, I don't think this argument stands in, well, idealistic sort of view of problem.

If your game is about 5 prisoner fellas who washed on a shore and have to fight for scraps to survive, why would you allow player to look any other way than pale loli witch in dirty dress with a skull on a stick?
This option clashes with your general art presentation regardless if you can buy it or not buy or see or not see.

Yeah, it'd probably bug me in town to some extent. But I'd suggest that outside of that in the "game proper" as I understand it, that you're basically letting options that another player may or may not decide to use bug you. It's sort of like how the Nexus hosts all sorts of anime titty waifu mods for every game under the sun. I don't use any of that shit and I think it's all pretty degenerate. But I don't let it bug me too much that other people like and use them for some reason.

The above is with the caveat that this is all assuming that the paid for cash cosmetics aren't impacting the design of things that are available through normal gameplay whether by making those rewards uglier or perhaps by adding something overly blingy into the game that was originally a cash shop item.

 

[Cryomancer]

mes/scrolls are also gear. Besides, if you changed the code of D3 to make a wizard's drops scrolls and books instead of swords and axes and made him equip a book instead of an axe... maybe even have an animation where he melee smacks stuff with a book for some of his attacks, is that better?

n dark postapoc satanic fantasy are equally dependant on what they can barely scrap from poor lit dungeons.

I think that if they wanna make casters as loot dependent as martials, a better solution is to have "lootable spells" like Tine Tyna wonderland.

But I have no idea about how to fix monks. Monks in D3 uses weapons only to dematerialize and punch someone...

Eg of lootable spell :

The main benefit of lootable spells is that you can easily put modifiers in the spell.

 

[mediocrepoet]

mes/scrolls are also gear. Besides, if you changed the code of D3 to make a wizard's drops scrolls and books instead of swords and axes and made him equip a book instead of an axe... maybe even have an animation where he melee smacks stuff with a book for some of his attacks, is that better?

I think that if they wanna make casters as loot dependent as martials, a better solution is to have "lootable spells" like Tine Tyna wonderland.

But I have no idea about how to fix monks. Monks in D3 uses weapons only to dematerialize and punch someone...

Monks are pretty easy. Just give them gloves/bracers or the like for their weapon slot and keep them punching and kicking. Most of what you're complaining about in this regard would be easily solved by making the presentation of weapon types dependant on your class just like armour already is. And then instead of having an axe that disappears or sticks on your back, just don't show an axe at all. This has the weird tradeoff that axes and swords won't "exist" as equippable items from the perspective of the monk/wizard/etc. character, but whatever.

 

[Shadenuat]

The above is with the caveat that this is all assuming that the paid for cash cosmetics aren't impacting the design of things

Modders gonna mod, can't have control over them (and shouldnt).
It's literally the last thing I'd bother to fix in PoE. It's a big and (relatively) free game, they can sell fuck they want.
But I think if anyone had a choice to allow tasteless art anywhere in their game or game site even, monetization or whatsnot, I know I wouldn't want it.

 

[Kjaska]

Doesn't change the fact that they'd been doing it for about a decade prior. Did they give those stash tabs to everyone retroactively and reimburse everyone who bought them over the years? No? Go eat shit then. Those stash tabs are mandatory and will easily run you $60-$70 in points. I'll consider that the box price. Suddenly the "best free game" I keep hearing about became just as expensive as every other game out there.

Complete distortion of reality. None of the specialized league currency tabs are mandatory, not even for the sweatiest of grinders. They go on sale routinely in a pack that costs like 15 bux. Not only that, many people tend to ignore multiple past leagues, never picking up even a single of the specialized currency during play. You're so far off base, it's not even funny. Stop posting your fake news. If you haven't played the game in years, stfu.

Now, if you want to grind for weeks, pick up all the shiny trash and have hundreds of trade listings going on at all times, just like the big boys - then you'll have to pay up. Stash tabs go on sale every 3 weeks and you can get 6x quad tabs for 60bux. 60bux which you paid for a supporter pack and got all the sweet effects from already. On top of the points you can now spend.

But this is a rare case for a new player. Most new players I interacted with don't have such ambitions. All they do during their first couple of leagues is take stuff from the guild stash or directly from me. They don't even bother competing with the big boys. The whole "I have too few tabs" is a complaint that either never comes up, because they just buy the tabs anyway or it is brought up by veteran players who are too concerned. (and retards like you).

btw forgot about the $30 battle pass on top of their supporter packs

Not mandatory. Purely cosmetic. And it gives you 8 quality mtx. It literally counters one of your main arguments that mtx in PoE is too expensive. You're grasping at straws.

When existing consumer protections and regulatory oversight is applied to it, sure but you forgot that really important part. Especially the part where gambling is illegal under the age of 18-21 and can't be marketed to individuals under that age either.

We're all grown-ass men here. Are you some concerned parent? So don't let your kid play PoE. What the fuck do I care? If gacha boxes become illegal, then so be it. That's for the law makers and for GGG to figure out. The youngest zoomers we have in the community are all 18+. PoE doesn't even appeal to kids. They are busy playing Fall Guys, GTA Online, ඞ, Fortnight, Minecraft or the game their favourite Streamer is currently playing.

"It's just cosmetic" was always a bad take but it's extremely fucking dumb for an isometric aRPG where your character is front and center literally every second you play the game. I added up the total on another set called the Midnight Pact. $182 for the whole set. Even with a special tab discount that brings it down 30% assuming the buyer is willing to wait for five different sales. That's still $152 for a single cosmetic set.

So cosmetics are mandatory now in aRPGs? Did your parents drop you on your head? Who are your parents? I remember only recently many in this thread lambasting PoE for its poor visual clarity. By that logic it should not matter at all what my character looks like, if I can't see shit anyway. As a matter of fact, the current free challenge system for this league awards you two versions of a full cosmetic set. All you have to do is play the game, no purchases needed. If you want something shiny and you want it now, then you have to pay up. As you should. The "cosmetic prices are too high" take always comes from poorfags who are trying to disguise their own greed. You want more for less, that is your argument.

tl;dr "it's okay when Chris Wilson does it" - you and every brain dead retard ITT

Every tool can be misused. You're the only retard arguing differently. Lootboxes have existed for decades now, yet D:Immoral got into the news cycle with their implementation. Because they misused the tool to an egregious extent, even by mobile game standards.

 

[Shadenuat]

I think that if they wanna make casters as loot dependent as martials, a better solution is to have "lootable spells" like Tine Tyna wonderland.

I mean it's not new. There is D1, but there is also say, Dark Souls. You have some control over how you start he game in DS, but after it's mostly same for everyone. Depending how you start you might want to change slightly your approach to exploration, go here or there.
But the general idea is a lot more solid: fight enemies and get weapons from them, try them out. Search for spells everywhere. Try and find secret merchants behind secret walls. And, *gasp* sometimes you might want to adapt your build to enemies cause you can't beat them.
It is simply a more exciting gameplay than when world is just a test dummy for how much is muh dps. And you can still have builds, have characters. In fact because everyone drifts towards their own playing style, their characters end up very different. Just that it's not as front loaded, and based more on strife, than preparation, which is only fitting for a rogue, dungeon crawler, or whatever you call it.
You want to have some conflict with games like that; not turn them into routine.

 

[Kjaska]

Is it much of a multiplayer game? Like, do you see other players at all and/or without inviting them into your game?

You play solo for the most part and only see other players when you trade with them. Some people actually do group play, but there the "visibility issue" reaches warp speed. The only time you could be tempted into buying a cool mtx is when you idle in town and some guy is posing in the middle with his decked out character. There is also the "Rogue Harbour" where people tend to flaunt their most expensive and flashy mtx. But that is part of completely optional side-content, that is pretty different from regular end game play. Many people do not enjoy it and new players sometimes don't even know how to get there.

group play for reference:

last warning

do not click, if you have sensitive eyes or epilepsy:

Spoiler

 

[mediocrepoet]

group play for reference:

last warning

do not click, if you have sensitive eyes or epilepsy:

Spoiler

Are you sure his video card didn't just blow up?
Well, I can safely say after 8 seconds of that video, that that is nothing that appeals to me. Thanks though.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

"It's just cosmetics" is a fag argument to make in a game where the main draw is the acquisition of powerful items to reflect on your character. The F2P aesthetics look 90% of the time like shit, like you're some pissed off human peasant in Warcraft 3 that went to defend the Town Hall.

Charge $60 for a full game where the cool shit is already skinned over the strong armor and weapons > making it F2P and having some screeching pug-faced retard with an overbite cite it as ethical as they have likely spent hundreds on stash tabs and cosmetics because "GGG provided me hours of fun, I owe it to them! =)"

 

[Peachcurl]

Nice you said it's Victor, or I would never guessed and could update new Victor persona.

Tomes or not, it's only fair that all characters in dark postapoc satanic fantasy are equally dependant on what they can barely scrap from poor lit dungeons. Wizards, really, should be even more dependant there, with maybe even trading their HP permanently for new spell n similar stuff.

If you see other people's bling all the time, then maybe

I mostly SSFd but you can see ppl in towns.

However, I don't think this argument stands in, well, idealistic sort of view of problem.

If your game is about 5 prisoner fellas who washed on a shore and have to fight for scraps to survive, why would you allow player to look any other way than pale loli witch in dirty dress with a skull on a stick?
This option clashes with your general art presentation regardless if you can buy it or not buy or see or not see. Whats up with stupid wings? or pets? or whatever games usually sell.

Basically, i m saying, if you ARE going to monetize cosmetics, at least try and do it tastefully.

Agreed, ideally it would all fit into that original aesthetic.

But, I mean... with all the screen fireworks and gods and world-destructing events, it doesn't matter much.