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Diablo IV

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
10,446
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Grand Chien
200w.gif

Diablo IV - the corridor simulator



why in this game & D3 and honestly, mostly other games, the map design is corridors, like you are in a cave or something? some corridor sare narrower than others, but still corridors.

what happened to maps that are just wide plains with different features and points of interests?



just look at these open maps from Divine Divinity where you can go anywhere and have the feeling of real exploration

Why didn't they make the same style of maps for Diablo 4?

How is the dungeon map design in D4 for the non-cave locations?
From what I've seen Diablo 2 has more open levels than Diablo 4, and that wasn't supposed to be open world. After hearing about the level scaling, that there will be mounts and all that Diablo 4 seems more like the MMO version of Sacred than a sequel in the Diablo series. Sacred was much more open though, while there were corridors in some places there were also entirely open spaces. Maybe one day Blizzard will make a game as good as Ascaron did in 2004.

PJG4kGo.jpg


What's the best way to do a single player good ol' D2 run or two for old time's sake? Ignore the D2R thing?

Somebody seems to be running a version swticher - which patch should I use? I can't remember that from 2002 or whatever.
[URL]https://github.com/fearedbliss/Cactus[/URL]
There’s no reason not to play D2R if you just want to play D2
My complete Diablo 2 installation is less than 2 GB, there is no reason to install a worse version that's 30 GB.
Yes you're totally right, hard drive space is the real issue here
 

bloodlover

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Messages
2,039
I'm more worried about druids being complete shit to play and having low dmg compared to other classes. I played a sorc that blasted through everything while my friend played a druid and he kept mumbling on an on about how shitty his class is.

They need to do an overhaul on druid and barb asap so at least some people will play them since most ppl are going to roll sorc or necro anyway.
Druid is pretty strong and basically unkillable once you get some legendaries for druid abilities.

Legendaries won't drop like they did in beta; and maybe all classes eventually become awesome with good gear and high level but getting there... I see a lot of frustrated players online when it comes to actually leveling.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
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Copenhagen
I don't think skipping PoE campaign would be a good idea. It doesn't take that long to complete once you know what you're doing, and it always feels like a great change of pace to go from Act 10 Kitava into maps. Especially on Hardcore since you can't just have your brain on AFK against Kitava for the most part.
I do not enjoy PoE campaign because your build does not really start until you hit lvl 70+

nigga I play righteous fire a build notorious for coming online late, and i switch to that shit in like act 5

the more you talk about poe the more i become convinced that rather than us having a disagreement about styles, you're just not very good, which is of course alright, except you think you're very good so you miss out fun by refusing to learn
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,331
I don't think skipping PoE campaign would be a good idea. It doesn't take that long to complete once you know what you're doing, and it always feels like a great change of pace to go from Act 10 Kitava into maps. Especially on Hardcore since you can't just have your brain on AFK against Kitava for the most part.
I do not enjoy PoE campaign because your build does not really start until you hit lvl 70+

nigga I play righteous fire a build notorious for coming online late, and i switch to that shit in like act 5

the more you talk about poe the more i become convinced that rather than us having a disagreement about styles, you're just not very good, which is of course alright, except you think you're very good so you miss out fun by refusing to learn
I never said I am elite POE player. Those nolife PoE, grind content and trade like crazy so they can buy their 30 ex/divine items. None of that is fun for me so PoE has lost its fun long time ago. I just have not found anything to replace it with. I play Path of Diablo here and there for my D2 fix but I am still waiting for that one big new aRPG to replace PoE.
I do not care about grinding or end game, I never played D2 beyond finishing Act 5 on Hell difficulty and then I started a new character. I only played PoE endgame because there is no other content in that game and you cannot bring your character to lvl 90+ otherwise.
 

Arbiter

Scholar
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
2,763
Location
Poland

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,331
A game about killing Satan, but no holy class. Maybe it'll be DLC but it should be one of the default classes.
Eh, to be completely honest, D1 didn't have a specifically  holy class either.
and that's why diablo survived.

He also survived Diablo 2 in spite of Paladin being present in that game.

Can Diablo even be permanently killed according to game lore?
He was supposed to be killed after D2 but they retconned it for D3.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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Messages
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I don't think skipping PoE campaign would be a good idea. It doesn't take that long to complete once you know what you're doing, and it always feels like a great change of pace to go from Act 10 Kitava into maps. Especially on Hardcore since you can't just have your brain on AFK against Kitava for the most part.
I do not enjoy PoE campaign because your build does not really start until you hit lvl 70+

nigga I play righteous fire a build notorious for coming online late, and i switch to that shit in like act 5

the more you talk about poe the more i become convinced that rather than us having a disagreement about styles, you're just not very good, which is of course alright, except you think you're very good so you miss out fun by refusing to learn
I never said I am elite POE player.

I'm not either - I haven't even killed uber elder. Yet my Righteous Fire still works halfway through the campaign, not at level 70 lol
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,331
I don't think skipping PoE campaign would be a good idea. It doesn't take that long to complete once you know what you're doing, and it always feels like a great change of pace to go from Act 10 Kitava into maps. Especially on Hardcore since you can't just have your brain on AFK against Kitava for the most part.
I do not enjoy PoE campaign because your build does not really start until you hit lvl 70+

nigga I play righteous fire a build notorious for coming online late, and i switch to that shit in like act 5

the more you talk about poe the more i become convinced that rather than us having a disagreement about styles, you're just not very good, which is of course alright, except you think you're very good so you miss out fun by refusing to learn
I never said I am elite POE player.

I'm not either - I haven't even killed uber elder. Yet my Righteous Fire still works halfway through the campaign, not at level 70 lol
Good for you. I rarely have builds that work that early beyond just slotting the main gem and 2-3 supports into it and pretending I am playing that build.
Maybe it is easier with RF as it is one of the simpler builds so as soon as you can get to state where you no longer degen you can start playing it.
My only RF build was long long time ago when ES stacking was still possible when I made a Guardian RF with 12k ES but that was after I got lucky with a doctor card drop that made me quite a few ex.
 

Jimeh

Educated
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
52
Location
Australia
The answer is pretty obvious, if the question isn't rhetorical: big companies like Blizzard design games for the lowest common denominator, and the perception, whether valid or not, is that unguided experiences where the player can get lost and potentially not know where they are going will turn them off and lose a customer. In my experience the opposite is often the case, even normies are looking to lose themselves in a game world to forget the real world, but this attitude from game devs is overwhelmingly pervasive in the industry, even niche designers like Josh Sawyer (may he trip and break his neck, mashallah) subscribe to it, the philosophy that you should design an experience to consist of completely sanded down, soft edges, where the player can never fail, and thus also never excel.
Bliz does always try to make games as accessible as possible and that's not just about player ability but also low hardware requirements. Easy to learn, hard to master is just good design. You could sit down for some couch co-op with your 7 year old son and both have fun in this game. 30 or so years ago everyone thought games were just for kids and nerds and now we've accepted that adults play games too, but, really, games are still for kids as well. Surely you aren't surprised by a Blizzard game aiming at having maximum accessibility? You expect it.

You're right that most players don't want to get lost and wander around not knowing where to go or needing to follow a guide or wiki to play the game. But if you personally want to get lost you can simply use a little self control and not look at the map. It's good to make as many people happy as possible. You can definitely lose yourself in this game and realize you've been playing for 10 hours - it happened to me every day of the beta!

If you also want the ability to fail I'd suggest you play on HARDCORE mode. Including a permadeath option in a AAA game in 2023 is a clear sign that the hardcore gamer crowd have not been forgotten.

It is an ACTION RPG and I prefer to compare it to action arcade games more than old CRPGS. The Action is not lacking but also the RPG is more there than ever before in a Diablo game in the story elements with in engine cutscenes, full voice acting, etc. All the sidequests are great and relate to the world and its people which helps with world building. There's a big open world to explore and a campaign to beat. There really is a lot to like in just the beta and its not just the beginning of the campaign but the beginning of Diablo4. It's a great foundation! Just think about how much the Diablo 2 expansion improved things. It'll be the same here. They're even talking about adding Rune Words.

D4 is a good game and I can't wait to play the full version.

PS. Another thing modern gamers demand is ongoing support and Blizzard has a very good track record for that. They even remastered D2! There's certainly nothing to worry about there. :)
 
Last edited:

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,154
Location
Platypus Planet
The answer is pretty obvious, if the question isn't rhetorical: big companies like Blizzard design games for the lowest common denominator, and the perception, whether valid or not, is that unguided experiences where the player can get lost and potentially not know where they are going will turn them off and lose a customer. In my experience the opposite is often the case, even normies are looking to lose themselves in a game world to forget the real world, but this attitude from game devs is overwhelmingly pervasive in the industry, even niche designers like Josh Sawyer (may he trip and break his neck, mashallah) subscribe to it, the philosophy that you should design an experience to consist of completely sanded down, soft edges, where the player can never fail, and thus also never excel.

The Action is not lacking but also the RPG is more there than ever before in a Diablo game in the story elements with in engine cutscenes, full voice acting, etc. All the sidequests are great and relate to the world and its people which helps with world building. There's a big open world to explore and a campaign to beat. There really is a lot to like in just the beta and its not just the beginning of the campaign but the beginning of Diablo4. It's a great foundation! Just think about how much the Diablo 2 expansion improved things. It'll be the same here. They're even talking about adding Rune Words.

D4 is a good game and I can't wait to play the full version. :)
I hate the fact that even on the Codex RPG has become "a game with cutscenes and voice acting". What a fucking pointless genre.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,154
Location
Platypus Planet
No. No it does not. In fact it does the opposite as has been proven time and time again. Maybe you'd feel more at home in a place like reddit.
 

Jimeh

Educated
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
52
Location
Australia
Well, you could give me an example to work with?

I'll just assume something I can relate to like how I enjoyed Divine Divinity more than Larians modern RPGs with higher production values.

But the question is, how do you know it's not YOU that's the problem. YOU changed. Now you're just riding on nostalgia from when you were playing games as a kid?

Why is nothing new ever good enough?

You know? You throw around this "incline" word but what you really mean is it's just exactly like an old game you view through rose tinted goggles from childhood. Incline should mean things improved not stayed the same.

This is exactly why they release a new Call of Duty every fucking year and people gobble it up. New COD just like the old one? INCLINE!!!!
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
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Jul 1, 2018
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Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Why is nothing new ever good enough?
It is true that there is a good amount of examples that I can think of where voice acting did improve the overall quality of the game. But, it's something that is akin to a sidegrade versus an upgrade. Underrail does not have any voice acting, and adding voice acting to the game would not improve it at all in my opinion. In fact, I think it would actually make the game worse, a Underrail is one of the few games where it is truly replayable, and I think having to skip past the same voice acted lines you've heard many times over would actively make the game worse. This is in stark contrast to a game like Disco Elysium, where the game would be significantly worse without voice acting, and I think it's an essential part of the experience. You get games that are on both sides of the specturm, and it needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

The problem with your statement is that you're both associating voice acting as something that adds to the "RPGness" of a game but that you're also characterizing voice acting as something that is always positive/good, which simply is not the case. A game is not more of an RPG because it has in engine cutscenes or voice acting, and to suggest such a thing is fucking retarded. There are so many examples of games that have voice acting, in engine cinematics, and all these other features that have become the mainstays of a "high quality game", where all the actually important elements that are required to have a good RPG are absolute shit. Instead of realizing that these features are just the proverbial sprinkles on top of the ice cream that is an RPG, and should not be blindly added to every game but instead added only when it truly benefits the experience that is being crafted, retards scream for these features to be added without considering the fact that voice acting often takes valuable time and resources that could be put towards other aspects of the game that sorely need it. I haven't even mentioned the sheer amount of times that shit RPGs have been praised for being "immersive" and having a "great story", when in reality all of those things are shit, and people are just blindly praising them because the games resemble a movie instead of an actual RPG.

With all of these factors taken into consideration, it is no wonder that the average Codexer is so against voice acting and other such things.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
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Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
the RPG is more there than ever before in a Diablo game in the story elements with in engine cutscenes, full voice acting, etc.
ZOMG, didn't know the early 2000s' Aliens vs Predator 2 was an RPG. It had all the staples - voice acting and in engine cutscenes! Come to think of it, Red Alert 2 was also an RPG! RA1 wasn't, tho, because not every briefing was voice-acted.
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

Learned
Joined
Dec 16, 2020
Messages
447
Eh, most of the time, when people complain about the resources spent on what they see as needless presentation, the fail to acknowledge the fact that the devs would likely fail to spend those resources in a more meaningful way anyway.

I suppose voice acting specifically has a tendency to inhibit world interactivity, so I get and agree with that complaint at least, but it's not like removing VO from, say, CP2077 would result in a better skill tree or itemisation.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Wide is good. Wide is strong. Wide is powerful. Don't be jealous because you are tiny.
 

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