Diablo IV

[Arbiter]

A game about killing Satan, but no holy class. Maybe it'll be DLC but it should be one of the default classes.

Eh, to be completely honest, D1 didn't have a specifically  holy class either.

and that's why diablo survived.

He also survived Diablo 2 in spite of Paladin being present in that game.

Can Diablo even be permanently killed according to game lore?

 

[ArchAngel]

A game about killing Satan, but no holy class. Maybe it'll be DLC but it should be one of the default classes.

Eh, to be completely honest, D1 didn't have a specifically  holy class either.

and that's why diablo survived.

He also survived Diablo 2 in spite of Paladin being present in that game.

Can Diablo even be permanently killed according to game lore?

He was supposed to be killed after D2 but they retconned it for D3.

 

[Grunker]

I don't think skipping PoE campaign would be a good idea. It doesn't take that long to complete once you know what you're doing, and it always feels like a great change of pace to go from Act 10 Kitava into maps. Especially on Hardcore since you can't just have your brain on AFK against Kitava for the most part.

I do not enjoy PoE campaign because your build does not really start until you hit lvl 70+

nigga I play righteous fire a build notorious for coming online late, and i switch to that shit in like act 5

the more you talk about poe the more i become convinced that rather than us having a disagreement about styles, you're just not very good, which is of course alright, except you think you're very good so you miss out fun by refusing to learn

I never said I am elite POE player.

I'm not either - I haven't even killed uber elder. Yet my Righteous Fire still works halfway through the campaign, not at level 70 lol

 

[ArchAngel]

I don't think skipping PoE campaign would be a good idea. It doesn't take that long to complete once you know what you're doing, and it always feels like a great change of pace to go from Act 10 Kitava into maps. Especially on Hardcore since you can't just have your brain on AFK against Kitava for the most part.

I do not enjoy PoE campaign because your build does not really start until you hit lvl 70+

nigga I play righteous fire a build notorious for coming online late, and i switch to that shit in like act 5

the more you talk about poe the more i become convinced that rather than us having a disagreement about styles, you're just not very good, which is of course alright, except you think you're very good so you miss out fun by refusing to learn

I never said I am elite POE player.

I'm not either - I haven't even killed uber elder. Yet my Righteous Fire still works halfway through the campaign, not at level 70 lol

Good for you. I rarely have builds that work that early beyond just slotting the main gem and 2-3 supports into it and pretending I am playing that build.
Maybe it is easier with RF as it is one of the simpler builds so as soon as you can get to state where you no longer degen you can start playing it.
My only RF build was long long time ago when ES stacking was still possible when I made a Guardian RF with 12k ES but that was after I got lucky with a doctor card drop that made me quite a few ex.

 

[bloodlover]

Even no life streamers are hating on druid

 

[Fedora Master]

That's a wow druid bear. So much for "dark and gritty"

 

[abija]

Reminded me more of Elden Ring's bears

 

[Jimeh]

The answer is pretty obvious, if the question isn't rhetorical: big companies like Blizzard design games for the lowest common denominator, and the perception, whether valid or not, is that unguided experiences where the player can get lost and potentially not know where they are going will turn them off and lose a customer. In my experience the opposite is often the case, even normies are looking to lose themselves in a game world to forget the real world, but this attitude from game devs is overwhelmingly pervasive in the industry, even niche designers like Josh Sawyer (may he trip and break his neck, mashallah) subscribe to it, the philosophy that you should design an experience to consist of completely sanded down, soft edges, where the player can never fail, and thus also never excel.

Bliz does always try to make games as accessible as possible and that's not just about player ability but also low hardware requirements. Easy to learn, hard to master is just good design. You could sit down for some couch co-op with your 7 year old son and both have fun in this game. 30 or so years ago everyone thought games were just for kids and nerds and now we've accepted that adults play games too, but, really, games are still for kids as well. Surely you aren't surprised by a Blizzard game aiming at having maximum accessibility? You expect it.

You're right that most players don't want to get lost and wander around not knowing where to go or needing to follow a guide or wiki to play the game. But if you personally want to get lost you can simply use a little self control and not look at the map. It's good to make as many people happy as possible. You can definitely lose yourself in this game and realize you've been playing for 10 hours - it happened to me every day of the beta!

If you also want the ability to fail I'd suggest you play on HARDCORE mode. Including a permadeath option in a AAA game in 2023 is a clear sign that the hardcore gamer crowd have not been forgotten.

It is an ACTION RPG and I prefer to compare it to action arcade games more than old CRPGS. The Action is not lacking but also the RPG is more there than ever before in a Diablo game in the story elements with in engine cutscenes, full voice acting, etc. All the sidequests are great and relate to the world and its people which helps with world building. There's a big open world to explore and a campaign to beat. There really is a lot to like in just the beta and its not just the beginning of the campaign but the beginning of Diablo4. It's a great foundation! Just think about how much the Diablo 2 expansion improved things. It'll be the same here. They're even talking about adding Rune Words.

D4 is a good game and I can't wait to play the full version.

PS. Another thing modern gamers demand is ongoing support and Blizzard has a very good track record for that. They even remastered D2! There's certainly nothing to worry about there.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The answer is pretty obvious, if the question isn't rhetorical: big companies like Blizzard design games for the lowest common denominator, and the perception, whether valid or not, is that unguided experiences where the player can get lost and potentially not know where they are going will turn them off and lose a customer. In my experience the opposite is often the case, even normies are looking to lose themselves in a game world to forget the real world, but this attitude from game devs is overwhelmingly pervasive in the industry, even niche designers like Josh Sawyer (may he trip and break his neck, mashallah) subscribe to it, the philosophy that you should design an experience to consist of completely sanded down, soft edges, where the player can never fail, and thus also never excel.

The Action is not lacking but also the RPG is more there than ever before in a Diablo game in the story elements with in engine cutscenes, full voice acting, etc. All the sidequests are great and relate to the world and its people which helps with world building. There's a big open world to explore and a campaign to beat. There really is a lot to like in just the beta and its not just the beginning of the campaign but the beginning of Diablo4. It's a great foundation! Just think about how much the Diablo 2 expansion improved things. It'll be the same here. They're even talking about adding Rune Words.

D4 is a good game and I can't wait to play the full version.

I hate the fact that even on the Codex RPG has become "a game with cutscenes and voice acting". What a fucking pointless genre.

 

[Jimeh]

That's not what I'm saying, Hobo. I'm saying these things contribute positively to the RPG side of an ARPG.

 

[Hobo Elf]

No. No it does not. In fact it does the opposite as has been proven time and time again. Maybe you'd feel more at home in a place like reddit.

 

[Jimeh]

Well, you could give me an example to work with?

I'll just assume something I can relate to like how I enjoyed Divine Divinity more than Larians modern RPGs with higher production values.

But the question is, how do you know it's not YOU that's the problem. YOU changed. Now you're just riding on nostalgia from when you were playing games as a kid?

Why is nothing new ever good enough?

You know? You throw around this "incline" word but what you really mean is it's just exactly like an old game you view through rose tinted goggles from childhood. Incline should mean things improved not stayed the same.

This is exactly why they release a new Call of Duty every fucking year and people gobble it up. New COD just like the old one? INCLINE!!!!

 

[ItsChon]

Why is nothing new ever good enough?

It is true that there is a good amount of examples that I can think of where voice acting did improve the overall quality of the game. But, it's something that is akin to a sidegrade versus an upgrade. Underrail does not have any voice acting, and adding voice acting to the game would not improve it at all in my opinion. In fact, I think it would actually make the game worse, a Underrail is one of the few games where it is truly replayable, and I think having to skip past the same voice acted lines you've heard many times over would actively make the game worse. This is in stark contrast to a game like Disco Elysium, where the game would be significantly worse without voice acting, and I think it's an essential part of the experience. You get games that are on both sides of the specturm, and it needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

The problem with your statement is that you're both associating voice acting as something that adds to the "RPGness" of a game but that you're also characterizing voice acting as something that is always positive/good, which simply is not the case. A game is not more of an RPG because it has in engine cutscenes or voice acting, and to suggest such a thing is fucking retarded. There are so many examples of games that have voice acting, in engine cinematics, and all these other features that have become the mainstays of a "high quality game", where all the actually important elements that are required to have a good RPG are absolute shit. Instead of realizing that these features are just the proverbial sprinkles on top of the ice cream that is an RPG, and should not be blindly added to every game but instead added only when it truly benefits the experience that is being crafted, retards scream for these features to be added without considering the fact that voice acting often takes valuable time and resources that could be put towards other aspects of the game that sorely need it. I haven't even mentioned the sheer amount of times that shit RPGs have been praised for being "immersive" and having a "great story", when in reality all of those things are shit, and people are just blindly praising them because the games resemble a movie instead of an actual RPG.

With all of these factors taken into consideration, it is no wonder that the average Codexer is so against voice acting and other such things.

 

[Storyfag]

the RPG is more there than ever before in a Diablo game in the story elements with in engine cutscenes, full voice acting, etc.

ZOMG, didn't know the early 2000s' Aliens vs Predator 2 was an RPG. It had all the staples - voice acting and in engine cutscenes! Come to think of it, Red Alert 2 was also an RPG! RA1 wasn't, tho, because not every briefing was voice-acted.

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Eh, most of the time, when people complain about the resources spent on what they see as needless presentation, the fail to acknowledge the fact that the devs would likely fail to spend those resources in a more meaningful way anyway.

I suppose voice acting specifically has a tendency to inhibit world interactivity, so I get and agree with that complaint at least, but it's not like removing VO from, say, CP2077 would result in a better skill tree or itemisation.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Is there a reason why all the characters are so... wide, male and female?

I know 'Murricans made it but jeez.

 

[ItsChon]

Wide is good. Wide is strong. Wide is powerful. Don't be jealous because you are tiny.

 

[Reinhardt]

Bliz does always try to make games as accessible as possible and that's not just about player ability but also low hardware requirements. Easy to learn, hard to master is just good design. You could sit down for some couch co-op with your 7 year old son and both have fun in this game. 30 or so years ago everyone thought games were just for kids and nerds and now we've accepted that adults play games too, but, really, games are still for kids as well. Surely you aren't surprised by a Blizzard game aiming at having maximum accessibility? You expect it.

Diablo IV is rated M (Mature)

 

[Hellraiser]

Bliz does always try to make games as accessible as possible and that's not just about player ability but also low hardware requirements. Easy to learn, hard to master is just good design. You could sit down for some couch co-op with your 7 year old son and both have fun in this game. 30 or so years ago everyone thought games were just for kids and nerds and now we've accepted that adults play games too, but, really, games are still for kids as well. Surely you aren't surprised by a Blizzard game aiming at having maximum accessibility? You expect it.

Diablo IV is rated M (Mature)

More like rated M (Manure).

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

Besides, I like how aggravating this Druid design is to people who want to play him as a petite little wood elf femboy

Fuck you! Did he look like an "elf femboy" in D2?

The D2 Druid was perfection. I wasn't referring to you, but to unhinged whiners at the D4 forums & twitter.

The D4 Druid design is exactly like the werebears in TW3 btw.

Which comes from some weird assumption that bears are the animal equivalent of strongmen. They aren't. They have a lot of fairly loose skin and fur, but underneath that, their muscles are that of any predator - long and lean.

You made me look this up, and have ruined bears for me!

 

[ItsChon]

In any case, a fat dude, no matter how strong fat he appears, doesn't exactly scream "I live in nature" to me, unless he's about to go into hibernation instead of gearing up to smash some demonic hoe. A druid should be whipcord and rawhide, not jello over triple marbled steak.

Not sure why someone living in nature wouldn't have some fat on him?

Druid design was great. I'm tired of the sterotypical lean, buff dude. While some men do indeed look like that, a ton of men carry fat on them and it's not due to a lack of discipline, it's due to body composition. In general, having some fat on you aids in your overall performance.

 

[Jimeh]

Why is nothing new ever good enough?

The problem with your statement is that you're both associating voice acting as something that adds to the "RPGness" of a game but that you're also characterizing voice acting as something that is always positive/good, which simply is not the case. A game is not more of an RPG because it has in engine cutscenes or voice acting, and to suggest such a thing is fucking retarded.

No, you're misunderstanding. I think? I don't know, I'm getting confused. Is it not obvious what I was saying? AVP2?!

It's an action game at its core but there's some clear effort to have a good story and world building and stuff. I'm not saying having cutscenes and voice acting means it's an RPG. Just that the cutscenes and voice acting is polish on the non-action side of things that they could have ignored. You can skip them but they're not half bad.

Lets have a look for the people who didn't play the beta.

 

[ItsChon]

No, you're misunderstanding. I think? I don't know, I'm getting confused. Is it not obvious what I was saying? AVP2?!

You literally said

the RPG is more there than ever before in a Diablo game in the story elements with in engine cutscenes, full voice acting, etc.

If there is a misunderstanding, it's because you were not clear when expressing yourself. In regards to whether or not Diablo 4 has a decent story and/or good world building, I honestly don't have an opinion. I haven't played Diablo 4 nor have I properly played through Diablo 1 or 2. I could honestly totally agree with your assessment of the games story and world building. I was just correcting what you said because it's a common misconception held by normies, and you continue to perpetuate it to be honest.

Just that the cutscenes and voice acting is polish on the non-action side of things that they could have ignored. You can skip them but they're not half bad.

Polish is not the same as quality content. Of course Blizzard was going to make sure the voice acting and cinematics and so on were polished. As I said previously, most people are retarded, and shit like this is what sells. The fact that you've cited cinematics and voice acting as proof of the game having an interesting story and good world building just highlights how backwards your standards are

 

[Jimeh]

Well, I'm probably not retarded. Especially as far as RPGs go. I was clocking Goldbox games when I was 10. I've played everything. I have 20 stash tabs in PoE! I've beaten Dark Souls with a level 1 character! BG1 and 2 with a solo character! Behold my most recent DCSS win!

15521829 blas the Englaciator (level 27, 292/292 HPs)
Began as a Demonspawn Ice Elementalist on Dec 1, 2022.
Was an Initiate of Gozag.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 15 runes on Dec 3, 2022!

DOES IT NOT AMAZE YOU?!

So why do I think Diablo4 is a good game?! It's because it is!

Sure, if you're looking for a city builder game it's probably not what you're after. But if you want an ARPG I'd comfortably say its a good one.

Anyway, what do you think of that cutscene? Does it add anything to the story, worldbuilding, atmosphere, etc?

PS. I also have Diablo Tchernobog mod installed!

 

[ItsChon]

Anyway, what do you think of that cutscene? Does it add anything to the story, worldbuilding, atmosphere, etc?

Honestly cutscene was kind of lame. They all just decided to kill someone they've known their whole lives because a demonic entity told them to? I'm sure she used some sort of magic or put them into a trance, but then I must ask, why didn't the Priest get effected? Also, not sure why they made the priest sound like such as an asshole in the beginning, if only a few minutes later they were going to try and paint him as a sympathetic character, pleading for his life by referencing prior happy memories and experiences. Also, it's a whole ass village, and there are only like ten people at mass? Not impressed at all.