Diablo IV

[Perkel]

I feel like people are discussing 2 different games.

There is release diablo 3 which was shit and what i played and decided it is crap of unbelievable level.
There is diablo 3 after all patches and expansions etc. with loot 2.0 and plenty of other crap that was added.

I wrote in D3 thread my mini review of final diablo as i played and still play it on switch emulator (finally offline d3)


1. RMAH was removed.
2. Itemization was overhauled. Yes there are crappy stats still but they are completely secondary to legendary powers.
3. Each legendary got very unique effect. The kind of things we loved about POE uniques that modify how you play is all about LOOT2.0. In fact right now POE has less uniques that modify how you play than D3.
4. Since loot2.0 they introduced kanai cube which introduced stuff like legendary powers you can equip from items.
5. Still D3 has best in ARPG business combat feel
6. They removed need of playing D3 campaign and most of new quests in adventure mode are not bad, standard stuff but not bad as campaign. Rifts are pretty boring but still way better than GD version of crucible or their shattered realms.
7. They allowed to use any skill not just class of skills.


So

with D3 1.0 you basically invested in +stats and used each skill from single category. It was trash heap
with D3 2.0 your gear defines how you play and you can mix and match skills. Gear really really impacts how you play.

There are still problems with D3 like mentioned stats on items being boring or iffy artstyle but overall it is much much much much much much much better game than 1.0. I'd say right now it is about equal to GD if not slightly better. It still trails POE but mostly because of lack of good endgame than gameplay itself.

Right now D3 is pretty good ARPG with several issues. IF they fix artstyle, create chaining via runes like they announced to compete with support gems of POE it will be pretty good game.

And let us not forget that POE these days is zoom zoom game and since POE2 is just campaign in POE1 + some extra features and graphics it won't change much.

OVerall i am pretty hyped about D4 but it can still go wrong.

 

[Robber Baron]

diablo as i played and still play it on switch emulator (finally offline d3)

wew
thanks for info

 

[Cryomancer]

Factinating feedback but I can tell that basically you didn't even start to play the game. Yes, it's designed around builds with sets in mind and greater rifts. Comparing what you've described to D2 is pointless.

I played a little of GR, that was just the last time that i gave D3 a chance and yes, D3 is trash.

"but after 666 hours it becomes good" ~ No, thanks. All other diablo games are good since the main menu.

2. Itemization was overhauled. Yes there are crappy stats still but they are completely secondary to legendary powers.

The BS that they rolled back from Jay wilson made D3 less shit but still shit non the less. HE advocated for retarded itemization. See about 12 min on GDC



RoS only fixed the loot. All other aspects of D3 still trash.

For those who don't wanna watch this long video, here is a the video in nutshell

• Too much affixes bad, stat stickie itemization good
• Characters are disposable
• Sorc was too popular, so i made every class plays like the least popular classes
• Character identity bad
• No mention to any other game but wow in the entire presentation
• Not reinvent the wheel, lets change everything

Top comments on that video

This is why IMO the quality of D4 will be proportional to the amount of Jay Willson's BS that they roll back. Less cooldown, less stat stickie, less handholding, less cartoonish artstyle = better game.

 

[Mastermind]

Armor on D2 looks like proper armor

Reminder that unlike D2 D3 lets you transmog items so they can look like one of the many pieces of normal looking armor in the game. Unlike D2 you don't have to run around looking like Bozo the Clown.

Magic is very consistent among the games which uses vancian magic system. Diablo could have learned from then.

Vancian system is fucking stupid in an ARPG, they should've learned more from Guild Wars instead. Timing, interrupts, energy management, meaningful stat system. Regardless, the system changed from D1 to D2 (for the better) then changed from D2 to D3 (also for the better). There is lots of rooms for improvement, although it doesn't look like blizzard is going down a better path with D4. D3 may well end up being the best game in the series for the foreseeable future.

 

[Cryomancer]

Vancian system is fucking stupid in an ARPG, they should've learned more from Guild Wars instead.

And guild wars is a ARPG? It is a generic post wow mmo with cooldown and everything bad from it.

Also, spell slots worked in well on Dark souls 1/2.

On Dark Souls 2, to learn Climax hex, first you need to find 3 hidden places, ask to join a covenant and do a long quest to the end kill one of the hardest optional bosses(DarkLurker), requires that you have invested a lot into INT and FHT, costs 4 ATN slots(more than 100 dark orbs) and when is used, eats all of your souls and if you don't have at least 5k souls, it doesn't deal a significant damage.

In Diablo 3, that spell would be a spell which every necro learns at lv "X", deals 666% of the size and sharpness of your axe in damage and has 2 minute cooldown.

I an not defending vancian magical system for Diablo.

And lastly to make bold and clear. I an not advocating vancian magic system for daiblo, only pointing that it would be far better than wowish magic system. We should move back to D1 magic system.

 

[Mastermind]

Vancian system is fucking stupid in an ARPG, they should've learned more from Guild Wars instead.

And guild wars is a ARPG? It is a generic post wow mmo with cooldown and everything bad from it.

It's not a MMO at all, it's a tactical arpg and arguably the best RPG ever made in terms of tactical depth.

Some skills have cooldowns, some don't. There's nothing inherently wrong with cooldowns. There's simply no comparing the King of Tactics with trash like WoW.

 

[Anonona]

And guild wars is a ARPG? It is a generic post wow mmo with cooldown and everything bad from it.

Just one question. Have you played it? And I mean GW1, not GW2 which is very different. Yes, it has cooldowns and the like, but the combat of the game was great and the amount of depth each combination of class and sub-class bring to the table was amazing. You could build very fun characters. The PvP was nothing to scoff at either. Even if you don't like cooldowns, I still recommend the game. I recommend both the Necromancer class and the Mesmer, both caster classes that are very fun and interesting with numerous ways to build your character.


Also do not play it with the mentality that it is an MMO. You only see players on the hubs, where you can form parties with them, but the main content are the main storylines, which are instanced and are like a campaign. Also you can form your own party of "heroes" (think of them as companions) which you can customize to your taste, both in terms of skills and "AI". Is pretty good.

 

[Mastermind]

And guild wars is a ARPG? It is a generic post wow mmo with cooldown and everything bad from it.

Just one question. Have you played it? And I mean GW1, not GW2 which is very different. Yes, it has cooldowns and the like, but the combat of the game was great and the amount of depth each combination of class and sub-class bring to the table was amazing. You could build very fun characters. The PvP was nothing to scoff at either. Even if you don't like cooldowns, I still recommend the game. I recommend both the Necromancer class and the Mesmer, both caster classes that are very fun and interesting with numerous ways to build your character.


Also do not play it with the mentality that it is an MMO. You only see players on the hubs, where you can form parties with them, but the main content are the main storylines, which are instanced and are like a campaign. Also you can form your own party of "heroes" (think of them as companions) which you can customize to your taste, both in terms of skills and "AI". Is pretty good.

He's too busy playing monocled games like WoW and CoD.

 

[Cryomancer]

ust one question. Have you played it? And I mean GW1, not GW2 which is very different. Yes, it has cooldowns and the like, but the combat of the game was great and the amount of depth each combination of class and sub-class bring to the table was amazing. You could build very fun characters. The PvP was nothing to scoff at either. Even if you don't like cooldowns, I still recommend the game. I recommend both the Necromancer class and the Mesmer, both caster classes that are very fun and interesting with numerous ways to build your character.

Played very little but will check more. Thanks for recommendation

He's too busy playing monocled games like WoW and CoD.

Wrong

Diablo 3, i can't play for any more second. Is too awful. WoW too, i tried but is just extremely repetitive and fell like a consequenceless work(like d3)

 

[Anonona]

Played very little but will check more. Thanks for recommendation

No problem. It has been ages since last I played, so I could be wrong, but I remember that you need the Nightfall expansions for the Heroes, but you can still use premade NPCs companions if you want to play alone. Gear progression is horizontal so to speak. What matters is your character, once you reach max level you do not gain better armors, so no farming for gear, and all that matters is what spells/skills you character knows and which one you choose to bring to combat. To learn new skills generally you must find certain enemies that know the spell or skill and defeat them in combat to learn from them. I am not quite sure, but I seem to remember that your character had to see the enemy use the skill/spell, otherwise they wouldn't learn it, logically, but I could be remembering wrong how it worked. Also you can play any campaign individually, and use your characters from one campaign on the others.

If you do end up playing it a bit more I do hope you enjoy it, despite some flaws I think it was a very good and unique game. If you can find some friends to play with even better.

 

[jackofshadows]

I played a little of GR, that was just the last time that i gave D3 a chance and yes, D3 is trash.

"but after 666 hours it becomes good" ~ No, thanks. All other diablo games are good since the main menu.

Thing is, you didn't have time to understand what game is about. You didn't like the looks (which is understandable) then you didn't like changes compare to D2 and gave up. Well, your loss. D3 was a dogshit game on release (except for few boss fights maybe) and basically nothing has changed regarding 1-70 gameplay ever since. And yet you continue "bashing" it with laughable, ridiculous complains. Yes, D3 has much worse aesthetics (albeit as Mastermind mentioned, it also has transmog feature so you can customize your char looks later on whatever you like with the same gear set) but it has way, way better gameplay eventually, beleive it or not.

 

[Mastermind]

Played very little but will check more. Thanks for recommendation

No problem. It has been ages since last I played, so I could be wrong, but I remember that you need the Nightfall expansions for the Heroes, but you can still use premade NPCs companions if you want to play alone. Gear progression is horizontal so to speak. What matters is your character, once you reach max level you do not gain better armors, so no farming for gear, and all that matters is what spells/skills you character knows and which one you choose to bring to combat. To learn new skills generally you must find certain enemies that know the spell or skill and defeat them in combat to learn from them. I am not quite sure, but I seem to remember that your character had to see the enemy use the skill/spell, otherwise they wouldn't learn it, logically, but I could be remembering wrong how it worked. Also you can play any campaign individually, and use your characters from one campaign on the others.

If you do end up playing it a bit more I do hope you enjoy it, despite some flaws I think it was a very good and unique game. If you can find some friends to play with even better.

You have to use signet of capture to get new ELITE skills. It's been ages since I played but IIRC you killed a boss who had the skill then used the signet of capture to acquire it. for non elite skills you can buy them from npcs

 

[Anonona]

You have to use signet of capture to get new ELITE skills. It's been ages since I played but IIRC you killed a boss who had the skill then used the signet of capture to acquire it. for non elite skills you can buy them from npcs

Ah, right! That was it, thanks for the reminder.

 

[Cryomancer]

You have to use signet of capture to get new ELITE skills. It's been ages since I played but IIRC you killed a boss who had the skill then used the signet of capture to acquire it. for non elite skills you can buy them from npcs

You said that the system of D3 was like GW1, i din't played GW1 much but seems that GW system where your have some character who defeated a boss with a "capability" that others doesn't have FAR better than D3.

And note that people defending D3 here are defending the RoS end game which rolled back many bad decisions of Jay Wilson. For some, loot and action is enough but not for me, they need to "roll back" far more changes made by Jay Wilson to make Diablo great again.

 

[Metro]

This thread is just a trainwreck of Not-so-Mastermind defending D3. In D2, skills/builds defined your character. In D3, sets define your character. LoN hardly addresses the issue. The fact that they had to fucking create an item to make other items useful because of shitty set-focused design is hilarious. In a game that's all about finding cool items, it is absolutely moronic design to make 95% or more of the items that drop absolutely useless to a given class/spec.

This is a weird hill he's chosen to die on.

 

[jackofshadows]

In a game that's all about finding cool items, it is absolutely moronic design to make 95% or more of the items that drop absolutely useless to a given class/spec.

What's so different to previous games here? At least in D3 loot drop actually is class-oriented with deliberate exception at 5% or so (it's been a few years since I logged last time). Not to mention that some items are used in support builds, farm builds etc which impossible in D2 by design (people are trading them anyway).

For the record: I'm not a fan of set-focused design. It's baffling to me why they've decided to inflate them so ridiculously high just to spice things up apparentely instead of balancing skills every season or so. LoN is a weak solution, I agree yet it provided some alternative judging by ladder even back then when I've played.

 

[Cryomancer]

One more thing. They could made casters more loot dependent without this retarded %WD easily. Just bring tomes back. and put some epic tomes which allows variations of certain skills, sacred 1/2 did in a similar way(runes to learn, but no variations), They could also included "epic modifications" inspired on GW1 where you need to far exclusive bosses for a skill variant.

Also, i downloaded GW1, which i purchased some years ago and stopped playing before i could even test the game and it doesn't look anything like D3. IDK where Mastermind took the idea that the games has something in common.

Necromancer on D3 - Start and end the game with 7 skeletons
Necromancer on GW1 - More he invests into Death magic, more minions he can have and the skills doesn't seem to escale with WD.

GW1 screen

Anyway, the game is very laggy here. There are so many years since i played that i don't even know why i gave up after purchasing.

edit : Naked, i can still kill mobs on GW1, i just doesn't have much energy

 

[Mastermind]

All I said was that the skill system (limited slots, swap them in and out) was taken from GW, I didn't say it was a GW clone. In fact I explicitly lamented that they didn't copy more of it.

Also, while I liked GW I didn't like the necromancy limitations. I also don't remember minions being limited by death magic. Maybe they changed it in a patch after I stopped playing, or maybe my memory is failing me since it's been so long. But originally they were limited by the fact that they constantly lose health and health degeneration potency increases the longer they've been summoned, which forces you to either heal them or replenish them constantly.

 

[Anonona]

All I said was that the skill system (limited slots, swap them in and out) was taken from GW, I didn't say it was a GW clone. In fact I explicitly lamented that they didn't copy more of it.

Also, while I liked GW I didn't like the necromancy limitations. I also don't remember minions being limited by death magic. Maybe they changed it in a patch after I stopped playing, or maybe my memory is failing me since it's been so long. But originally they were limited by the fact that they constantly lose health and health degeneration potency increases the longer they've been summoned, which forces you to either heal them or replenish them constantly.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minion
https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Minion

• Up until the April 26, 2006 update, there was no limit to the number of minions that could be controlled by one character.
  

It seems they did add a limit to the number of minions you could have. I wonder why, don't remember it being considered too powerful when I played. Perhaps to avoid the server being congested by too many summons?

 

[Mastermind]

This thread is just a trainwreck of Not-so-Mastermind defending D3. In D2, skills/builds defined your character. In D3, sets define your character. LoN hardly addresses the issue. The fact that they had to fucking create an item to make other items useful because of shitty set-focused design is hilarious. In a game that's all about finding cool items, it is absolutely moronic design to make 95% or more of the items that drop absolutely useless to a given class/spec.

This is a weird hill he's chosen to die on.

it doesn't take a mastermind to see you have no idea what you're talking about (what a surprise)

most D3 items drop for your class
D2 drops were not heavily weighted in your class's favor, and each build also had items that were superior to every other option. there was always a "best item" for any slot in any given build, that's no different from D3, and I don't see how it could possibly be any different in any other arpg. There will always be one item that is the best in its class for any given slot and build. People only used subpar "good enough" gear in D2 because the top gear was virtually impossible to get for the average player. And I do the same in D3 every season until I get the gear for whatever build I'm aiming for.

On top of that D3 has a limit to how many characters you can have so you usually stash good items that go with different sets/builds so you can play them later if you feel like it.

 

[Ismaul]

I am also anticipating the release of poe 2, but I hold no illusions about the end game which consists of clunky trading. Until grinding gear games fix trading, I can't consider playing poe seriously.

Solo Self Found my nigga

since POE2 is just campaign in POE1

Wrong

 

[Cryomancer]

Seems that GW lv cap is just 20, and it has trainers, seems extremely better than D3.. Having a limited amount of skills to attune is not something new. In fact, i miss being able to have dozens of skills on D2...

 

[Robber Baron]

Well today I've played Diablo 3 for the first time(on the yuzu emulator), and wow I had fun

 

[Sykar]

Well today I've played Diablo 3 for the first time(on the yuzu emulator), and wow I had fun

So is eating at McDonalds once in a while. You get sick of the food swiftly though if you eat it every day.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The itemization in the latest preview doesn't really look interesting or all that different from D3.

"Angel Power/Demon Power" sounds really gay, btw.