Diablo IV

[Cryomancer]

and d3 has a lot more viable builds than D2 did. stop blaming the game for your laziness

Completely wrong. You can beat Diablo 2 - hell even with some awful role play builds, i saw in a stream a guy beating hell with a pacifist paladin...

 

[Sykar]

Diablo 4 will be a polished Path of Exile, which is a good thing.

Diablo 4 will scale everything off weapon damage.

Even hitpoints?

 

[Kruno]

Diablo 4 will be a polished Path of Exile, which is a good thing.

Diablo 4 will scale everything off weapon damage.

Even hitpoints?

Can you imagine if they streamlined everything into a single item? Now you can play Diablo with no hands!

 

[1451]

I am also anticipating the release of poe 2, but I hold no illusions about the end game which consists of clunky trading. Until grinding gear games fix trading, I can't consider playing poe seriously.

 

[Mastermind]

and d3 has a lot more viable builds than D2 did. stop blaming the game for your laziness

Completely wrong. You can beat Diablo 2 - hell even with some awful role play builds

So what? You can beat Diablo 3 with some awful role playing builds. Diablo 3 has more viable builds and it's not even close. That's because D3 has a lot more active skills (and especially damaging skills) and overwhelming majority can be made usable on max torment whereas D2 has fewer active skills and many are virtually useless in hell. On top of that D2 synergies force you to take skills you don't need to make a skill you want to use good (or at least viable) which further reduces the variety. Throw in immunities and most single element builds are incapable of beating the game unless you get your hands on an Infinity polearm.

Like most of the retards here you don't know anything about either game but you insist on arguing with someone who's put thousands of hours into both.

, i saw in a stream a guy beating hell with a pacifist paladin...

It was on normal. IE: it doesn't count, just about any build can beat either D2 or D3 on normal. But even if it did, so what? D3 has multiple viable thorns builds.

 

[Kruno]

I am pretty sure Mastermind is a meme account.

 

[jackofshadows]

No, we hate D3 because :

• CArtoonish wow style graphics
• Carnavalesque armor design
• Jay Wilson
• Everything scales with weapon damage, including monks punches and necros minions
• Cooldowns everywhere
• Difficulty is just hp/damage inflation
• Is extremely repeititive
• No immunity/resistances. You can use siphon blood against the skeleton king
• Everyone is at lv cap 30 minutes after the season starts
• Set determining the loadout(you don't build a character on D3, you choose in a cod-like loadout) taking out over half of the gear customization(And due the no character customization it becomes worst)
• LaAck of mature contents(d1 had no problem showing succubus breasts for eg)
• Everyone is a clone
• Instead of tomes(d1) or skill trees(d2), the cod style loadout system sucks.
• (...)

I can continue listing forever. Diablo 3 is not a RPG. Is more like Gauntlet Legends meets WoW than a proper Diablo game

D3 isn't a RPG? No shit, so as D2. Although D3 is superior to D2 in almost every way except aestethics (unfortunately). Most of armor design, including infamous pauldrons is indeed, retarded. However, it's just 100 times more fun slasher game where you can basically ditch leveling and gearing up and start actually playing with various builds unlike in D2 where the whole purpose of the game is more or less shaping your build (which is rarely a fun process, especially getting gear) and after that there's simply nothing to do.

As for subj, so far I definitely like what I see, it may turn out to be a fun game with much more suitable aesthetics.

 

[Sykar]

No, we hate D3 because :

• CArtoonish wow style graphics
• Carnavalesque armor design
• Jay Wilson
• Everything scales with weapon damage, including monks punches and necros minions
• Cooldowns everywhere
• Difficulty is just hp/damage inflation
• Is extremely repeititive
• No immunity/resistances. You can use siphon blood against the skeleton king
• Everyone is at lv cap 30 minutes after the season starts
• Set determining the loadout(you don't build a character on D3, you choose in a cod-like loadout) taking out over half of the gear customization(And due the no character customization it becomes worst)
• LaAck of mature contents(d1 had no problem showing succubus breasts for eg)
• Everyone is a clone
• Instead of tomes(d1) or skill trees(d2), the cod style loadout system sucks.
• (...)

I can continue listing forever. Diablo 3 is not a RPG. Is more like Gauntlet Legends meets WoW than a proper Diablo game

D3 isn't a RPG? No shit, so as D2. Although D3 is superior to D2 in almost every way except aestethics (unfortunately). Most of armor design, including infamous pauldrons is indeed, retarded. However, it's just 100 times more fun slasher game where you can basically ditch leveling and gearing up and start actually playing with various builds unlike in D2 where the whole purpose of the game is more or less shaping your build (which is rarely a fun process, especially getting gear) and after that there's simply nothing to do.

As for subj, so far I definitely like what I see, it may turn out to be a fun game with much more suitable aesthetics.

 

[Cryomancer]

It was on normal. IE: it doesn't count, just about any build can beat either D2 or D3 on normal. But even if it did, so what? D3 has multiple viable thorns builds.

No, was on hell. 5 second research to find this video

ou can beat Diablo 3 with some awful role playing builds. Diablo 3 has more viable builds and it's not even close. That's because D3 has a lot more active skills (and especially damaging skills) and overwhelming majority can be made usable on max torment whereas D2 has fewer active skills and many are virtually useless in hell.

Completely wrong.

1. Torment 13 on D3 is nothing like Hell on D2. Mainly due GR power creep.
2. The difference between a role play build and a min maxed pun pun build on D2 is about 40%. On D3 is aboutr 50000000000%
3. You don't build your character in your diablo 3. STOP SAYING THAT THE COD STYLE LOADOUT SYSTEM IS CHARACTER BUILDING, IT IS JUST A LOADOUT. Diablo 3 lacks mechanical and narrative character building.
4. The majority of skills being worhtless on hell is not a problem. Since diablo 1, spells are divided on circles and go from a mage that needs to conservate the fire bolt usage to fireball/firewall spam is a huge progressio. Nobody complains that magic missile is not that useful on final chapter of Throne of bhaal. Or that a pyromancer on DS3 will use more great chaos fireball than just fireball. Same with martial weapons, a normal axe should't be useful as a end game legendary axe.

D3 isn't a RPG? No shit, so as D2.

D2 has mechanical character building, D3 has not.

Why Sekiro is not a RPG but Nioh 2 is? Because the protagonist of Sekiro is the same regardless of any player choice. Nioh 2 in other hands, a cannonner and a katana build will have completely different experiences.

However, it's just 100 times more fun slasher game where you can basically ditch leveling and gearing up and start actually playing with various builds unlike in D2 where the whole purpose of the game is more or less shaping your build (which is rarely a fun process, especially getting gear)

You are ignoring a important thing. You are not gear dependent on D1/D2.

Naked necromancer vs ancients



Diablo 3 is the most iconic example of AAA appeal to the lowest common denominator. Not saying that D2 is a masterpiece, is just a decent game. BUT I REFUSE TO PLAY A GAME WHERE I CAN USE SIPHON BLOOD AGAINST THE SKELETON KING, but in order to suck a lot of blood of that skeleton, i need to have a big and sharp axe so i can dimaterialize during the casting animation and bigger and sharper my axe is, more blood i can siphon from him. Diablo 3 mechanics contradicts the lore which contradicts the visuals, it is just a game where nothing makes any sense and you endless grind for bigger numbers that represents nothing.

 

[Mastermind]

No, was on hell. 5 second research to find this video

I couldn't find this video because it's not a video of someone beating Diablo 2 on pacifist like you originally claimed, it's of someone beating diablo (the boss) on hell. Beating lord de seis is the main issue, not Diablo, since he doesn't attack in melee. In normal that can be circumvented in several ways because monsters don't have that much health but hell is a different story.

Completely wrong.

1. Torment 13 on D3 is nothing like Hell on D2. Mainly due GR power creep.
2. The difference between a role play build and a min maxed pun pun build on D2 is about 40%. On D3 is aboutr 50000000000%

It's nothing like Hell on D2 because D3 doesn't have D2's horrendeous drop rates. Anyway, I'm glad to see you finally concende D3 has more viable builds than D2.

1. You don't build your character in your diablo 3. STOP SAYING THAT THE COD STYLE LOADOUT SYSTEM IS CHARACTER BUILDING, IT IS JUST A LOADOUT. Diablo 3 lacks mechanical and narrative character building.

Butthurt detected.

And it's the Guild Wars system. I've never even played COD so stop listing all the popamole shit you play in this thread, it's meaningless as a frame of reference to me.

The word is build. Nobody uses loadout. It doesn't matter what word people in your hollywood simulator use.

The majority of skills being worhtless on hell is not a problem. Since diablo 1, spells are divided on circles and go from a mage that needs to conservate the fire bolt usage to fireball/firewall spam is a huge progressio. Nobody complains that magic missile is not that useful on final chapter of Throne of bhaal. Or that a pyromancer on DS3 will use more great chaos fireball than just fireball. Same with martial weapons, a normal axe should't be useful as a end game legendary axe.

A warrior character can swap axes with no penalty. A spellcaster can't do the same with firebolt, and because of synergies they HAVE TO get shit skills they never actually use.

You are ignoring a important thing. You are not gear dependent on D1/D2.

Naked necromancer vs ancients

I'm not ignoring anything, I beat hell with a naked necro already. That doesn't add to the viable build count because geared up bone/summon necros are already on the list of viable builds. It's just a challenge run with an existing build.

Diablo 3 is the most iconic example of AAA appeal to the lowest common denominator. Not saying that D2 is a masterpiece, is just a decent game. BUT I REFUSE TO PLAY A GAME WHERE I CAN USE SIPHON BLOOD AGAINST THE SKELETON KING,

But you'll play a game where you can poison skeletons and rocks.

but in order to suck a lot of blood of that skeleton, i need to have a big and sharp axe so i can dimaterialize during the casting animation and bigger and sharper my axe is, more blood i can siphon from him. Diablo 3 mechanics contradicts the lore which contradicts the visuals, it is just a game where nothing makes any sense and you endless grind for bigger numbers that represents nothing.

Oh look, another idiot who finds the idea of using a weapon to channel magic "unrealistic" in a made up fantasy with made up magic.

This web site really does attract the dumbest people on the planet.

 

[jackofshadows]

D2 has mechanical character building, D3 has not.

And? D2 is still not a RPG. But if you want to try another build - start over with the same class. In a game like D2/D3 it's simply tiresome.

You are ignoring a important thing. You are not gear dependent on D1/D2.

For some builds it's true like your necro example but some are rely on specific items which are hard as fuck to drop. Or at least getting enough res/+skills/whatever. In D3 gear it's not a problem whatsoever.

BUT I REFUSE TO PLAY A GAME WHERE I CAN USE SIPHON BLOOD AGAINST THE SKELETON KING

And in D2 you can poison skeletons. It's one of many game's conditionalities: if you can't accept it - forget about it. Judging by your obsession with role-play builds in a non-RPG, hack and slash is not genre for you anyway.

Sykar I look at both D2/D3 as a fun slasher games and meant mostly the gameplay in mind. I never did care much for its lore since D1 anyway. Gothic aesthethics, grim biblical inspired game's world - all that incredibly cool but for me it was always all about killing demons which... it is, right? And D3 allows doing it much, much more pleasantly thanks to many features like endless randomized rifts, shared chest (people are still using special launcher to have multiple D2 processes just to trade items between your own chars), advanced social stuff (you can join friends in 1 click, find communities for specific activities etc). I with D3 was made w/o cartoonish visual nonsense but what can you do. If look at both games a humble single player experience than of course D2 is much more solid and coherent (I prefer even D1 in that case actually).

 

[Cryomancer]

And it's the Guild Wars system.

Wrong. From post cataclysm wow, a expansion which destroyed all little RPG on wow.

A warrior character can swap axes with no penalty. A spellcaster can't do the same with firebolt, and because of synergies they HAVE TO get shit skills they never actually use.

Synergies are a simple concept. A magician becomes better at throwing fire bolts, by consequence, he also becomes better at throwing fireballs

But you'll play a game where you can poison skeletons and rocks.

Is a game's fault but it doesn't justify D3 faults.

Oh look, another idiot who finds the idea of using a weapon to channel magic "unrealistic" in a made up fantasy with made up magic.

Yes, fantastic elements on fantasy settings doesn't need internal consistencies, lets have sparkling vampires, fireballs which freezes enemies and so on /sarcasm

Can you imagine Diablo 3 bullshit in a novel? If people would't accept this BS on a novel, there are zero reason to accept in a game. Or even Harry Potter, imagine if on a book wandless magic is not possible and in other is easy and everyone can do. It would make zero sense in that universe.

And note : Monks also needs bigger and sharper axes to have strong punches.

Is that hard to understand that game mechanics needs to reflect the fictional world lore? A AK-47 on Icewind Dale would't make any sense, a dragon would. Doesn't matter if firearms exists IRL and dragons doesn't. In that fictional world, is the other way around. Same with magic. Magic leading to insanity on The Call of Cthulhu which is a dark world where magic is out of humanity grasp, is like a dog trying to learn how to code, makes perfectly sense. In Baldur's Gate, where magic is like electricity IRL, it would't make any sense the same mechanic.

But mages needing bigger and sharper axe MAKES NO SENSE IN ANY FICTIONAL UNIVERSE, INCLUDING DIABLO'S UNIVERSE. Do you why D3 devs din't cared about ludonarrative dissonace? They aren't creating a fictional world. they are just creating a slot machine simulator.

Just like Sparkling Vampires on Twilight is not because the Author wanna make a rich vampire story, she wanna make poor quality drama. and D3 mechanics are BS like Twilight. If you don't see problems with everything %WD you should't have any problem with Sparkling vampires, since they doesn't exists, any fictional world with then should't care about consistencies. Right?

And? D2 is still not a RPG. But if you want to try another build - start over with the same class. In a game like D2/D3 it's simply tiresome.

Wrong.
1 - If we consider D2 a RPG, we need to consider Dark/Demon souls as one and some similar ARPGs, if we consider D3 a RPG, almost everything should be considered too. Including Monster Hunter for eg. Another game where gear is everything and characters nothing.
2 - Is not tiresome. Did you played any serious RPG? If you had the dumb idea of making a mage with 8 INT on BG2, he will become worthless and there are no friendly respecs.

 

[luj1]

Not saying that D2 is a masterpiece, is just a decent game.

D2 is a masterpiece, you are just retarded

 

[pomenitul]

D1 is a minimalist masterpiece of gameplay and atmosphere. D2 is solid but overambitious decline in comparison. D4 ought to build upon the franchise's roots if it is to reclaim some of the original's pervasive sense of dread.

 

[Mastermind]

And it's the Guild Wars system.

Wrong. From post cataclysm wow, a expansion which destroyed all little RPG on wow.

Guild Wars predates Cataclysm by 5 years. It's also a lot more similar to Diablo than WoW (it was made by former diablo devs too).

Synergies are a simple concept. A magician becomes better at throwing fire bolts, by consequence, he also becomes better at throwing fireballs

Nothing to do with whether it enhances build variety (it doesn't, quote the opposite).

Is a game's fault but it doesn't justify D3 faults.

No but it does make this entire conversation pointless because you don't really care about muh consistency. Your hatred of D3 has nothing to do with how magic functions in a fantasy setting, it's just butthurt it's not EXACTLY LIKE D2 because autistic people have trouble adjusting to change.

Yes, fantastic elements on fantasy settings doesn't need internal consistencies, lets have sparkling vampires, fireballs which freezes enemies and so on /sarcasm

Or stone turrets that die of poisoning. Oh right, you don't actually care about internal consistency.

Can you imagine Diablo 3 bullshit in a novel? If people would't accept this BS on a novel, there are zero reason to accept in a game. Or even Harry Potter, imagine if on a book wandless magic is not possible and in other is easy and everyone can do. It would make zero sense in that universe.

Imagine a fantasy universe where a skeleton dies of poison.

And note : Monks also needs bigger and sharper axes to have strong punches.

More like they channel more power through better crafted weapons.

Is that hard to understand that game mechanics needs to reflect the fictional world lore? A AK-47 on Icewind Dale would't make any sense, a dragon would. Doesn't matter if firearms exists IRL and dragons doesn't. In that fictional world, is the other way around. Same with magic. Magic leading to insanity on The Call of Cthulhu which is a dark world where magic is out of humanity grasp, is like a dog trying to learn how to code, makes perfectly sense. In Baldur's Gate, where magic is like electricity IRL, it would't make any sense the same mechanic.

But mages needing bigger and sharper axe MAKES NO SENSE IN ANY FICTIONAL UNIVERSE, INCLUDING DIABLO'S UNIVERSE. Do you why D3 devs din't cared about ludonarrative dissonace? They aren't creating a fictional world. they are just creating a slot machine simulator.

Absolutely not true. And mages don't need bigger and sharper axes anyway, endgame mages in D2 use mage weapons because they provide the best bonuses.

The idea that the size/shape/quality of a weapon influences magical abilities is entirely coherent and you only object to it because D3 did it. If it had been a feature of D2 you'd be defending it or brushing it aside.

 

[Mastermind]

D2 has mechanical character building, D3 has not.

And? D2 is still not a RPG. But if you want to try another build - start over with the same class. In a game like D2/D3 it's simply tiresome.

D2 has respecs anyway, it's just tedious.

 

[jackofshadows]

Wrong.
1 - If we consider D2 a RPG, we need to consider Dark/Demon souls as one and some similar ARPGs, if we consider D3 a RPG, almost everything should be considered too. Including Monster Hunter for eg. Another game where gear is everything and characters nothing.
2 - Is not tiresome. Did you played any serious RPG? If you had the dumb idea of making a mage with 8 INT on BG2, he will become worthless and there are no friendly respecs.

What?! How you can even consider D2/D3 as a RPGs? It's an action games, just with RPG-like progression slapped all over. A big playground to level up, collect gear and kill some bosses. Solo or with friends. By the way, WoW has plot, NPC, quests, deeeep lore etc, too.

Re tiresome. How long will it take to level sorceress up to let's say 85 lvl? Just to try cold instead of fire. It's not a mistake, just completely another path. I'd say even with all gimmicks and help from others more than an hour (not expert on D2 so correct me if I'm wrong). Waste of time, nothing more. It's not a "serious RPG" where you have to live with your decisions blah blah it's just a game about killing mobs, deal with it.

D2 has respecs anyway, it's just tedious.

Since 1.13 you mean? I see. Well, better late than never but still looks tedious, yeah.

 

[Cryomancer]

What?! How you can even consider D2/D3 as a RPGs? It's an action games, just with RPG-like progression slapped all over. A big playground to level up, collect gear and kill some bosses. Solo or with friends. By the way, WoW has plot, NPC, quests, deeeep lore etc, too.

Wrong, D3 doesn't have RPG like progression. Guns on cod are allways the same and you unlock in a linear way and most people has everything unlocked. Now on new vegas, if you try to use anti materiel rifle with no stats/skill, you will have to deal with a drunk sway among other things. Why? Because FNV is a RPG, CoD is not. Like D3. D3 has you unlocking and creating a loadout like cod bo2.

And having "plot" doesn't make a game a RPG. Nor quests. Otherwise, any adventure game like Tomb Raider would be one. And leveling, you don't have character level on VtMB and VtMB is one of the best RPG's ever. And the "deep lore" means nothing since it is not reflected in gameplay.

Being seriously, we have more mechanical character building on adventure games like god of war than on diablo 3.

The idea that the size/shape/quality of a weapon influences magical abilities is entirely coherent and you only object to it because D3 did it. If it had been a feature of D2 you'd be defending it or brushing it aside.

Is not the case of any Diablo game lore, is not the case of ANY novel and etc. Also, you keep ignoring monks in order to defend this ludicrous BS. And if it was a feature of D2, i would't defend because D2 has his fair share of BS, like Energy being worthless to 99% of builds for eg. I also hate the respec feature and the post 1.09 overpowered gear.

But at least you don't see everyone at lv cap farming endless carnival looking armor to exponentially inflate zimbabwe inflated numbers on D2. In nutshell, Diablo 1 is great but not good as other RPG's of its time, Diablo 2 has some BS and Diablo 3 is pure BS.

 

[Lacrymas]

Neither FNV nor Diablo, nor VtMB is an RPG, sorry to say.

 

[jackofshadows]

Wrong, D3 doesn't have RPG like progression. Guns on cod are allways the same and you unlock in a linear way and most people has everything unlocked. Now on new vegas, if you try to use anti materiel rifle with no stats/skill, you will have to deal with a drunk sway among other things. Why? Because FNV is a RPG, D3 is not. D3 has you unlocking and creating a loadout like cod bo2.

What a fucking bizarre comparison. And what a "perfect" example of RPG: FNV In D3 you still have level progression, every new level you getting hp/resource/new abilities, that's what I meant.

And having "plot" doesn't make a game a RPG. Nor quests. Otherwise, any adventure game like Tomb Raider would be one. And leveling, you don't have character level on VtMB and VtMB is one of the best RPG's ever.

And the "deep lore" means nothing since it is not reflected in gameplay.

Thanks for proving my point. Just extract all that from D2 and look at what's left.

 

[Mastermind]

Is not the case of any Diablo game lore, is not the case of ANY novel and etc.

I haven't read any of the novels and probably never will but none of the games explain how item magic works. Diablo 1 uses a different system from 2, you gain spells from reading books, not gaining experience. The series hasn't been consistent because it's a fucking video game and things change for reasons other than lore.

Also, you keep ignoring monks in order to defend this ludicrous BS.

I'm not ignoring monks. Their punches/kicks are all magical and can potentially channel power or draw power from weapons.

And if it was a feature of D2, i would't defend because D2 has his fair share of BS, like Energy being worthless to 99% of builds for eg. I also hate the respec feature and the post 1.09 overpowered gear.

But at least you don't see everyone at lv cap farming endless carnival looking armor to exponentially inflate zimbabwe inflated numbers on D2.

There's no level cap in D3, the leveling system just switches to paragon levels when you hit the soft cap.

And no, instead of farming endless carnival looking armor like in D3 you bot endless carnival looking armor in D2. The D3 number inflation is absurd but it's a minor issue, like most of the trivial shit that sets off autists like you but doesn't matter much to normal people. I play these games to make a cool character and slaughter endless monsters with it and D3 is top tier at the former and the best in the genre at the latter. Whether they have an official autistic explanation for how magic items work in their setting doesn't matter one bit to me.

 

[Cryomancer]

What a fucking bizarre comparison. And what a "perfect" example of RPG: FNV In D3 you still have level progression, every new level you getting hp/resource/new abilities, that's what I meant.

Everyone is lv 70 after 20 minutes of a new league. And every lv 70 necro is a clone of the other lv 70 necro.

PS : What RPG element is missing on FNV? Romanceable Elf Companions?

PS 2 : Paragons are account wide, so are not TIED TO CHARACTERS. In other words, no character progression

Diablo 1 uses a different system from 2, you gain spells from reading books, not gaining experience. The series hasn't been consistent because it's a fucking video game and things change for reasons other than lore.

GOOD rpg's has consistency with lore and mechanics and tomes > skill points > big and sharp axe

And no, instead of farming endless carnival looking armor like in D3 you bot endless carnival looking armor in D2.

Armor on D2 looks like proper armor

---------------------------------------

Magic is very consistent among the games which uses vancian magic system. Diablo could have learned from then.

 

[jackofshadows]

Everyone is lv 70 after 20 minutes of a new league. And every lv 70 necro is a clone of the other lv 70 necro.

Leveling process is boring so 20 mins is fine. You don't have to use most popular builds, experiment all you want, it's what skill-change-on-a-fly system is for, actually. Most people just don't like that sort of thing and look up most popular/effective atm to play right away, just like in D2 (last server I've played was filled with cold-sorceresses). But when it comes to fighting for top ladder spots after paragon race is behind, process of searching for best build in the current patch begins and to have an edge over other players you either have to be best at piloting the most prominent ones or come up with your own, more effective (and if you'll succeed in that, your build will probably be taken by the others and so on).

It's very similiar picture to collectible card games where very few people are dedicated to deck-building whilist most player just copy their work and have fun. However, when it comes to tournaments, no one brings exact same decks.

PS : What RPG element is missing on FNV? Romanceable Elf Companions?

It's an action based game. Have a lot of RPG-elements, yes, but too much depends on player's skill. Just like in Diablo games, so yeah, nice comparison :D

PS 2 : Paragons are account wide, so are not TIED TO CHARACTERS. In other words, no character progression

Not tied, so what? It still works as a progression system: you're gaining stats. But again, it's not a RPG we're talking about.

 

[Cryomancer]

Leveling is boring so 20 mins is fine

- Diablo 3 is a RPG because it has leveling (only if you consider cod/bf as rpgs)
- Everyone being at lv cap is good because only end game matters

Chose one BS to defend please.

But when it comes to fighting for top ladder spots after paragon race is behind,

You are not defending that D3 is a good ARPG; you are defending that D3 is good if you enjoy a mindless combat with a lot of ludonarrative dissonance in order to min max your pun pun build using mechanics that has zero correlation to the game's lore and kill mosters faster than others. But even the worst mobile cashgrab has the same """qualities""" of D3.

It's an action based game. Have a lot of RPG-elements, yes, but too much depends on player's skill. Just like in Diablo games, so yeah, nice comparison :D

Not because you have dialogs, choice and consequence and all aspects of mechanical and narrative character building. Also, a lot of progression on new vegas is not only player based. You with a poor quality 9mm pistol and poor stats will never kill a Deathclaw. But a guy with stealth kit, power armor, anti materiel rifle and good stats, can OHK the same mob.

Sorry but if we consider any game where you "level up" as a RPG, then we need to consider adventure games, MOBAs, Fighting games and so on as RPG's. Diablo 3 lacks mechanical and narrative character development.

----------------------------

Last time that i gave D3 a chance, i believe that even posted here. To self quote

I decided to give D3 a chance. Created a seasonal HARDCORE character. I was thinking on playng D3 with a non RPG mindset and maybe the game will be good

Well, my necromancer looks EXTREMELY androgynous. I was wondering if i really had picked a male necro, it is jrpg levels of androgeny... And the game is too easy. I literally got a decent weapon and was two hit shooting "rare" enemies. Unlocked corpse explosion. Was sad that it was scaling with my weapon, not with enemy hp who fits more the manipulator of master and death, using the lifeforce of enemies against thenselves. And no progression on range, always hit a specific area.... When i got skeleton mage, i was thinking "why i can't use it and the bone spear?" I an hating more this loadout system

Literally when i found a little gear, my hit points moved from 150 to 600. That ludicrous number inflation... For almost no gear improvement and few levels... At lv 11, i finally got a decent skill that siphons blood. i found a amazing big and heavy mace, do you know what it means? That i can siphon much more blood from enemy skeletons My skeletons also will become much stronger.

Leveled a little more, unlocked golem BUT or i have a golem or skeletons since i can only have one skill on the "reanimation" bar... Again this FPS like loadout...

Then faced the Skeleton King. Faced him on 1x1 but thanks to my heavy club, he was no match for me. I din't even needed to do anything except let my skeletons attack him while i drain all skeleton's blood. Decided to try change the difficulty. I now that the game will just inflate damage/health and will not trow more uniques, let enemies have more spells, give immunities, so skeletons can't be poisoned to death, or anything interesting. But at least will be less boring.

Now the game is on EXPERT. Was a little more fun, but even by standing in a ultra telegraphed explosion, i only lose half of my health.,,, After leveling i got corpse lance. A cool skill. IMO better than corpse explosion but again. Why i can't have one for single target and another for multi target? I hate this loadout system. On D2 i can have dozens of skills...

I an thinking D3 on expert extremely more easy than any other isometric ARPG that i played. I an literally playing while watch video lessons, even writing annotations with a hand and editing this post and my health NEVER reached closer to 50%(except when i tried) And the combat? always spam the same rotation, over and over... Generate essence -> Skeleton mages -> get corpses so corpse lance, next encounter, generate essence -> skeleton mage -> corpse lance (...) Looks like i an playing an MMO... The unique encounter who broke this monotony was VS jailers.
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Do the same thing over and over even for a pure action game is not fun or engaging.

 

[jackofshadows]

- Everyone being at lv cap is good because only end game matters

Exactly. OTOH, D2 is all about char progression with the same gameplay style and it often don't do any good. Last time I was gonna try non-summon necro: poison nova, bone spells etc. Imagine getting 30 lvl in a single mode just to learn the main skill. What a bore. Instead I've got some help and gone to play solo nightmare almost right away on 35.

You are not defending that D3 is a good ARPG; you are defending that D3 is good if you enjoy a mindless combat with a lot of ludonarrative dissonance in order to min max your pun pun build using mechanics that has zero correlation to the game's lore and kill mosters faster than others. But even the worst mobile cashgrab has the same """qualities""" of D3.

You're clearly don't know what you're talking about. I'm far from being expert in mobile games myself but D3/PoE are best at what they do.

Sorry but if we consider any game where you "level up" as a RPG, then we need to consider adventure games, MOBAs, Fighting games and so on as RPG's. Diablo 3 lacks mechanical and narrative character development.

You completely lost me. I never claimed D3 as RPG in the first place.

I decided to give D3 a chance. Created a seasonal HARDCORE character. I was thinking on playng D3 with a non RPG mindset and maybe the game will be good

Well, my necromancer looks EXTREMELY androgynous. I was wondering if i really had picked a male necro, it is jrpg levels of androgeny... And the game is too easy. I literally got a decent weapon and was two hit shooting "rare" enemies. Unlocked corpse explosion. Was sad that it was scaling with my weapon, not with enemy hp who fits more the manipulator of master and death, using the lifeforce of enemies against thenselves. And no progression on range, always hit a specific area.... When i got skeleton mage, i was thinking "why i can't use it and the bone spear?" I an hating more this loadout system

Literally when i found a little gear, my hit points moved from 150 to 600. That ludicrous number inflation... For almost no gear improvement and few levels... At lv 11, i finally got a decent skill that siphons blood. i found a amazing big and heavy mace, do you know what it means? That i can siphon much more blood from enemy skeletons My skeletons also will become much stronger.

Leveled a little more, unlocked golem BUT or i have a golem or skeletons since i can only have one skill on the "reanimation" bar... Again this FPS like loadout...

Then faced the Skeleton King. Faced him on 1x1 but thanks to my heavy club, he was no match for me. I din't even needed to do anything except let my skeletons attack him while i drain all skeleton's blood. Decided to try change the difficulty. I now that the game will just inflate damage/health and will not trow more uniques, let enemies have more spells, give immunities, so skeletons can't be poisoned to death, or anything interesting. But at least will be less boring.

Now the game is on EXPERT. Was a little more fun, but even by standing in a ultra telegraphed explosion, i only lose half of my health.,,, After leveling i got corpse lance. A cool skill. IMO better than corpse explosion but again. Why i can't have one for single target and another for multi target? I hate this loadout system. On D2 i can have dozens of skills...

I an thinking D3 on expert extremely more easy than any other isometric ARPG that i played. I an literally playing while watch video lessons, even writing annotations with a hand and editing this post and my health NEVER reached closer to 50%(except when i tried) And the combat? always spam the same rotation, over and over... Generate essence -> Skeleton mages -> get corpses so corpse lance, next encounter, generate essence -> skeleton mage -> corpse lance (...) Looks like i an playing an MMO... The unique encounter who broke this monotony was VS jailers.
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Factinating feedback but I can tell that basically you didn't even start to play the game. Yes, it's designed around builds with sets in mind and greater rifts. Comparing what you've described to D2 is pointless.