[Disco Elysium] Disappointing Mid-late game. [Heavy Spoilers]

[ValeVelKal]

I liked DE as much as Torment. Torment had pointless thrash combats but apart from that the same kind of personal development. I would also say that PT is - almost - as linear as DE.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. There are multiple ways to resolve many (including the main) quests in Torment. For example, having very high Wisdom and talking to the Transcendant One leads to a different outcome than if you focused on Strength. In some ways, DE had this, but as noted above, DE's main quest gets locked behind a Shivers check, thus rendering the role-playing somewhat moot. Torment certainly has flaws and it is true that it is not as good for role-playing as Fallout. But the story of Torment is so good that it outshines that flaw. I don't feel the same for DE.

I realize this. PT has several endings, DE really has only one. In addition, the shiver test is a real design flaw of DE - no idea how they could allow this.
On the other hand, I feel like PT has all this railroaded journey through several planes in the last third of the game that leaves you no freedom until you are back in the initial city, whereas DE leaves you free until you find the hide-out of the female freedom fighter whose name I forget, afterwhich it is welcome onboard the conclusion-train. Therefore, both have their moment where freedom is taken away from you.

I feel like PT is slightly ahead in terms of general story and impact of your decisions, DE slightly ahead in terms of writing and character development, but both are stellar games with flaws (I am not sure I know a stellar game without flaw though).

 

[thesecret1]

They babble about how Disco dernt have COMBAT so it’s not a GOOD RPG without realizing that Disco simply obfuscates its ‘combat’ in a different way – the combat is your own internal dialog.

Holy shit this is so pretentious. No, internal dialog is not fucking combat, you're mixing a thought process with a gameplay mechanic, are you retarded? Do you think that if you say lofty shit then you can blurb out complete non sequiturs like it's some sort of a given fact? The two things have absolutely nothing in common.

The rest of your post is just a massive projection where all that disgree with you are described as "basement dwelling fascists" or "broken individuals", which, frankly, marks you a retard who is unable to see past his own biases.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The commie on an island was the most disappointing thing about the ending, to be honest. It makes the whole detective aspect of the game inconsequential, as basically none of the investigation you did matters – the motives you looked for? Don't matter, it's just a retarded commie with a hardon killing someone who cucked him. Clues you've collected? All just red herrings or shit that never would have pointed you to the right place anyway (such as the murder weapon being something he got from guerrilas in some shithole, come the fuck on).

More clues about the culprit, using screenshots from my second playthrough:

 

[JohnSmith24601]

More clues about the culprit, using screenshots from my second playthrough:

None of that leads to a commie hobo living on a remote island. Also, even if you somehow "six sensed" it, why can't you fucking "CHOOSE" to go to that island early? Why must you be forced to wait till after the merc tribunal? Wouldn't it be way more satisfying to be able to solve the murder mystery relying on your own abilities instead of basically having the game solve it for you? Your screenshots are actually ironically supporting my points that this game offers no real choice.

 

[toro]

... shit ...

Don't be retarded. None of those "leads" matter because the game doesn't allow you to explore the island until a certain event is triggered.

 

[Harthwain]

In some ways, DE had this, but as noted above, DE's main quest gets locked behind a Shivers check, thus rendering the role-playing somewhat moot.

You get a massive bonus to the Shivers check when you do others things than beelining for the main quest, so if you explored the world first the check isn't that difficult, even if you don't have high Shivers character.

I realize this. PT has several endings, DE really has only one.

This is true, but it doesn't mean your stats are completely meaningless - they allow you to get an insight into characters' actions you otherwise wouldn't have. It's not critical for the success of your investigation and I agree they could've done this way better (on a few levels), but I kept having Planetscape vibes all the way through the game. I just don't see any other game that Disco Elysium can even compare to, regardless of which one is better than the other.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Don't be retarded. None of those "leads" matter because the game doesn't allow you to explore the island until a certain event is triggered.

The oddly-structured linearity of Disco Elysium is a separate issue from the question of whether the identity of the murderer is a "deux ex machina" unrelated to clues uncovered during the investigation, which was the assertion of the two posts I replied to in this thread. I've pointed out earlier in the main Disco Elysium thread, as have many others, that the game refuses to allow you to travel to the islet until you've reached the arbitrary condition of experiencing the 'Tribunal' event. This even though you can observe the ruins located on the islet on the very first day of the game, determine in your investigation that the Hanged Man was killed in the room of Miss Oranje Disco Dancer by a shot from outside that might have been taken from the islet, and then rule out the possibility of the shot having been taken from just outside the room which leaves only the possibilities of the three more distant locations from which a sniper could have fired.

In fact, if you view the islet with Kim accompanying you and after having uncovered the information about the deadly shot, the game grants you additional text in which you apparently rule out the possibility of the shot having been fired from the islet!

 

[Tigranes]

Well, if the game had been designed such that you could simply sail to the Islet on Day 2 or so, what would that accomplish? I suppose you could end the game very early and skip half of the content? You would then presumably prevent the Tribunal from occurring, but in terms of the story and character development, it would seem to be a very thin soup to drink from.

I don't think allowing the player to be extremely successful in the detective work by masterfully solving the case before the shit goes down is really a meaningful addition to a game like Disco Elysium, which is a game entirely built around the thematic exploration of coming to terms with failure and trying to do your best despite knowing it's not good enough. It would be a different story if this were first and foremost a detective game and your objective was to win high scores by trying to solve the case really well, for example. There's a reason that the story doesn't build up to a climactic reveal against a deadly antagonist or a masterful plot, but rather builds down to the discovery that all the chaos you had gotten caught up in was the final gust of wind from a passing husk of a man no longer of his time.

A better solution to the problem seems to be to improve some of the writing & clues such that there are more plausible reasons to chase other more probable leads until the very end. (I think this happens in some playthroughs at least, where the player might have very good reasons to suspect the 8th Hardie right until the turning point.) There's a lot of tension and open questions that drive the player in the first couple of days, and there's good reasons to really suspect everyone you meet and question every fact you are given - that becomes weaker after you cross the 'bridge'. If you do really well with the window investigation, I suspect quite a few players right there figure out that the macguffin is in the islet.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I say again - if the game was as big as they envisioned it, this investigation would have been a warm-up to the main story, which I think concerns Klaasje and her being hunted as a spy. Ofc this doesn't make the final game we have more of a game and less of a controlled exploration of DE's worldbuilding, but I can understand the gating of the islet and not allowing the player to beeline to it.

While we are at it, let's this question a moment of consideration - does metaknowledge affect the ability to solve Tandy's abduction quest in Fallout, and if the whole of Fallout ended with that quest, would the game suffer if you could beeline to the solution?

 

[Verylittlefishes]

PT has several endings, DE really has only one

Nope, there is only one. You go down to the Blood War) Flavors different, yes.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Doesn't mean your stats are completely meaningless - they allow you to get an insight into characters' actions you otherwise wouldn't have. It's not critical for the success of your investigation and I agree they could've done this way better (on a few levels), but I kept having Planetscape vibes all the way through the game. I just don't see any other game that Disco Elysium can even compare to, regardless of which one is better than the other.

Well, yes I am the one who agree. DE and PST are extremely comparable games, nay, DE is the first game I would ever compare to PST. Both are their flaws, both are amazing.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Nope, there is only one. You go down to the Blood War) Flavors different, yes.

That's a different type of storytelling. The end is the same, no matter what:
- In Planescape you go to the Blood War
- In Fallout 1.5 you die
- Whatever ending DE has, still haven't played 'cause of my obsolete hardware

But how you reach your end is matters. Do you ruin everything and everyone in your path? Or you try to atone your past transgressions? How your actions change the world and people around you?

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Nope, there is only one. You go down to the Blood War) Flavors different, yes.

That's a different type of storytelling. The end is the same, no matter what:
- In Planescape you go to the Blood War
- In Fallout 1.5 you die
- Whatever ending DE has, still haven't played 'cause of my obsolete hardware

But how you reach your end is matters. Do you ruin everything and everyone in your path? Or you try to atone your past transgressions? How your actions change the world and people around you?

So you exactly described why Disco is awesome.

 

[JarlFrank]

More clues about the culprit, using screenshots from my second playthrough:

None of that leads to a commie hobo living on a remote island. Also, even if you somehow "six sensed" it, why can't you fucking "CHOOSE" to go to that island early? Why must you be forced to wait till after the merc tribunal? Wouldn't it be way more satisfying to be able to solve the murder mystery relying on your own abilities instead of basically having the game solve it for you? Your screenshots are actually ironically supporting my points that this game offers no real choice.

I love the game but my biggest disappointment was not being able to go to the island after determining it as a possible origin location of the shot with visual calculus.

I actually tried to find a way to get to the island before confronting Ruby, because I wanted to cover all my angles before the final showdown.

Turns out you can't cover that angle, the island is the final showdown and you can't investigate it before, even if you have reasonable suspicion that it's important.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I love the game but my biggest disappointment was not being able to go to the island after determining it as a possible origin location of the shot with visual calculus.

I actually tried to find a way to get to the island before confronting Ruby, because I wanted to cover all my angles before the final showdown.

Turns out you can't cover that angle, the island is the final showdown and you can't investigate it before, even if you have reasonable suspicion that it's important.

Yes, everybody agreed on this as a significant flow back in 2019.

 

[ValeVelKal]

I love the game but my biggest disappointment was not being able to go to the island after determining it as a possible origin location of the shot with visual calculus.

I actually tried to find a way to get to the island before confronting Ruby, because I wanted to cover all my angles before the final showdown.

Turns out you can't cover that angle, the island is the final showdown and you can't investigate it before, even if you have reasonable suspicion that it's important.

Same same. I searched for hours on how to either open the locked door (the one with its own "One more door" thought cabinet item) or to find the boat, as I assumed it was the two ways to reach the island. This one is a huge letdown.

 

[vota DC]

I think that the mercenary tribunal works wonderfully. For the very first time since the start of the game, Harry needs to get his shit together and face immediate danger. He constantly fucks everything up, but that's not an option this time because his life is on the line. I played that scene for the first time with high Visual Calculus and it was extremely cool and engaging.

You already defeated Ruby, tribunal is even more forgiving.

If you save Carley in episode 1, she gets shot in the eye in episode 2. If you save Doug in ep 1, he dies when he catches a bullet for you...Yeah, tailored, my ass. Also, in the end Lee either dies or dies and turns into a zombie...

Carley and Doug die in episode 3. There were pure joke options like helping Shawn instead of Duck "Shawn will remember this....Shawn dead after 2 seconds" and also helping Larry instead of Kenny at the end of episode 2 when Lily will betray you anyway at beginning of episode 3....the outcome is quite meaningful since Kenny grudge will be very long if you help Larry but as choice makes no sense.
Carley and Doug are the most "durable" choice that last more than one episode, anyway Season 1 it is very railroaded and only final outcome is about your stepfather skills with Clementine while Season 2 did the opposite with a multiple endings but midgame choices with very few impact.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

In some ways, DE had this, but as noted above, DE's main quest gets locked behind a Shivers check, thus rendering the role-playing somewhat moot.

You get a massive bonus to the Shivers check when you do others things than beelining for the main quest, so if you explored the world first the check isn't that difficult, even if you don't have high Shivers character.

I realize this. PT has several endings, DE really has only one.

This is true, but it doesn't mean your stats are completely meaningless - they allow you to get an insight into characters' actions you otherwise wouldn't have. It's not critical for the success of your investigation and I agree they could've done this way better (on a few levels), but I kept having Planetscape vibes all the way through the game. I just don't see any other game that Disco Elysium can even compare to, regardless of which one is better than the other.

I had explored the world a lot, it was actually difficult to try and find things to give me more experience so I could raise my Shivers. I got all of my Shivers bonus clothes, smoked a cigarette, and found another thing to do so I could gain more experience so I could level it up, and then I could progress.

The game is good, but this is a glaring flaw for sure.

 

[CappenVarra]

Also, for what it’s worth, only broken morons would actually replay something like Baldur’s Gate more than once

all good (or passable) D&D games are re-playable by necessity, since they allow you to create an adventuring party with numerous options

one can legitimately question whether BG is a good D&D game or not, we're on the 'dex after all and RTwP is cancer

but if you think people replaying D&D games with different party compositions are broken morons, well: newsflash, the broken moron is you

 

[JohnSmith24601]

Also, for what it’s worth, only broken morons would actually replay something like Baldur’s Gate more than once

all good (or passable) D&D games are re-playable by necessity, since they allow you to create an adventuring party with numerous options

one can legitimately question whether BG is a good D&D game or not, we're on the 'dex after all and RTwP is cancer

but if you think people replaying D&D games with different party compositions are broken morons, well: newsflash, the broken moron is you

The funny thing is that the people who trash RPG fans for replaying their favorite RPG’s are the same people who would happily play Call of Duty for hours on end. Running around a few similar maps and getting shot in the back over and over.

 

[Nutria]

I ended up caring about the ex-fiancee plot more.

There were a few moments like that that were great. To me she was the most interesting character in the game and we never even get a proper dialogue with her. I also liked the reveal of the phasmid (I had no idea it was going to happen).

The bulk of the game though has you slogging through dealing with a bunch of boring, hopeless, depressing junkies and burnouts. If I wanted to do that, I could very easily in real life. They're motivated by what millenial European bourgeois kids imagine is what motivated early 1900s European bourgeois kids. And I'm supposed to be really inspired by helping these rave kids take over a church and turn it into Ibiza. Most of this stuff just does not have any interest to me across the ocean and in another generation.

I don't regret playing it and I hope it inspires others, but I get the distinct impression that the people who made it did not understand what parts of it were actually good and why.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

but I get the distinct impression that the people who made it did not understand what parts of it were actually good and why.

No, I think you are the one who is wrong.

you slogging through dealing with a bunch of boring, hopeless, depressing junkies and burnouts. If I wanted to do that, I could very easily in real life.

That's the fucking point. Not to escape into power fantasy WITH TONS OF COMBAT, but to look once into the mirror and see THE FACE.

 

[TemplarGR]

Verylittlefishes, would you mind to disclose your relationship with Disco Elysium development studio by any chance? Because odds are you are a shill, based on your behavior.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Verylittlefishes, would you mind to disclose your relationship with Disco Elysium development studio by any chance? Because odds are you are a shill, based on your behavior.

I am Kasparov alt for the periods when his main account is busy with your mom.

 

[Nutria]

Not to escape into power fantasy WITH TONS OF COMBAT

I love that they got away from combat being the standard way of dealing with your problems like it is in most RPGs. It's one of the high points of the game.

What I object to is living in some world where everyone is a boring alcoholic. There's no happy families. There's no people who have found peace inside themselves. It's like if the kids I went to punk rock shows when I was a teenager were perpetually stunted and still lived in that state and imagined what the world is.