Disco Elysium spoilery thread

[FeelTheRads]

The Pale and the stuff surrounding it were the most interesting bits in the game, shame they decided to focus on meme politics instead.

Yeah, really, this has more "current year" garbage in it than several AAA games put together. Down to even "muh women assaulted by being asked out by their boss".

I guess the difference is that they made all this shit part of the game rather than throw it in randomly.

Hey, whatever, if that's what they want in their game that's what they want.

But I did finish the game, (so that's something I guess) I pushed through all that shit, but in the end I can only see it as a waste of a good setting.
I could also get into how half of the skills are basically unused and how I finished the game with like 20 unused skill points. But it doesn't look like anybody cares about that, it's either about the politics, or about the writing. Or the random retarded commie fapping over a game made by commies.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I finished the game with like 20 unused skill points.

But why?

 

[Daidre]

Down to even "muh women assaulted by being asked out by their boss".

Player can mediate situation and find out that there is mutual sympathy and no one was offended.

Only problem is a bloated corpse in the backyard that did not facilitate romantic mood.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Player can mediate situation and find out that there is mutual sympathy and no one was offended.

I know. I also know that technically you can say you don't see the problem. But the game clearly pushes the "this is very bad" angle.

However, I'm saying my problem is that it's there. Not how it was handled. I don't care for this kind of garbage. If you do, that's fine. It's just not for me.

But why?

Why not?

1. I started with the character to the left (thinker or something) and you barely need to put any point in any of the skills from the 2 non-dump stats.
2. For the 2 non-dump stats you are severely limited in how many skills points you can assign.

So, what's the point in putting in points randomly?
It's literally impossible to tell what skill checks you'll encounter (with how random they are used for the same kind of situations), so it's not like you can say "damn, imma boost this one cuz it's definitely gonna be useful."

So where to put them then? I had all thoughts filled and even replaced several of them. Based on what logic should I assign them. There's none.
I assume they've foreseen this that's why you have a list of the checks that you can retry, but in the end those were mostly checks that I think were impossible for my character (needing to have different stats).

 

[Strange Fellow]

All skills have a huge amount of passive checks. Even if you don't care about that (and I wonder why you'd even play this if you don't) you'll never have enough skill points to retry all the white checks you'll fail during the course of a playthrough.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, guess I didn't need them.

No, I didn't pass all the checks. And no, I didn't retry all the failed ones. As I said, I think all of those were impossible (not impossible like the game rates them, but actually impossible) for my character.
I only said I finished the games with a lot of skill points left. And you asked me why. That's why. I didn't know where to put them and didn't even feel like I needed them.

And if by passive checks you mean those that show up as your "inner dialogue", I only missed like a couple in the whole game.
Even if I was going for a "win all checks" thing (is that really the goal, though?), again, how would I go about it. It's not like you can know what you need. The only logic would be to spread the points evenly, I guess.

 

[JarlFrank]

Uuuuuuuh you spend the points when you think you need them?

You encounter a check you want to pass, you put points in the respective skill.
It's not rocket science.

 

[tripedal]

And if by passive checks you mean those that show up as your "inner dialogue", I only missed like a couple in the whole game.

Most failed passive checks are silent, you never see that you failed.

 

[Haba]

Player can mediate situation and find out that there is mutual sympathy and no one was offended.

I know. I also know that technically you can say you don't see the problem. But the game clearly pushes the "this is very bad" angle.

However, I'm saying my problem is that it's there. Not how it was handled. I don't care for this kind of garbage. If you do, that's fine. It's just not for me.

Game that
- lets you call women whores
- lets you punch children
- lets you do drugs with children
(and rewards you for both)
- lets you kill children (and tells you that it was probably a good thing you did)
- lets you set up a drug lab
- lets you role-play a racist that rambles on about foreigners

Current year garbage indeed.

 

[Saduj]

I didn’t hoard points and really didn’t have any left over until the very end when the game throws a ton of XP at you during the final conversations. And I didn’t skip much as far as opportunities to gain xp go. At a certain point I did start spreading points around more and noticed more passive checks passed in dialogue. Also spent points on buffing up my char physically in anticipation of the inevitable gun fight.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You encounter a check you want to pass, you put points in the respective skill.
It's not rocket science.

So, this game is played backwards? You first fail and then retry?

That's fine. Except I already said that the checks I had left of the list were not possible with my stats. I couldn't assign enough skill points to pass them.

Point is, I had points left over. I could have used them in any skill, but I didn't need them.

Thank you for the lesson in how to play a genre I played for like almost the length of your life, captain rocket surgeon.

Most failed passive checks are silent, you never see that you failed.

Right, so how does that help me to know where to put the points? Or figure out what's the logic.

OK, say I missed a ton of these invisible checks and I could've passed them if I spent all my points... but, I saw no reason to spend them.
Say you have no checks left that you can do and still have points... where do you put them?
The logical way to me is to either spread them evenly, or "roleplay" by putting them in the skills derived from your main stats. Which makes them even more useless (at least it looks like that) since those skills are already high and hardly need more points.

In a second playthrough, when you kinda know what you need, sure. Then maybe you'll also hit those invisible checks.

Current year garbage indeed.

Indeed. I acknowledged you can "roleplay" against them, but yes the "current year" themes are all there. I think they only missed climate change? Even if I didn't feel like the game had an agenda, the themes ARE there.
Also in the other thread I admitted that I maybe there's no agenda and I'm just not reading it correctly. But hey, whenever you have the option to go against, it always feels to me like it's done in a sarcastic way and the developers are wagging their finger at you.
Very possible I am brainwashed by the Codex, however, again, the themes are there and I don't care for them. I don't see the need for them. But as I said, I appreciate that at least they're part of the game. With a few exceptions where they throw in random communist crap in discussions where it really didn't seem warranted. Is it just for fun because the game is "ZANY"? Maybe, but I hate communists! Kill all commies!

Oh yeah, and I do appreciate that you can indeed play an asshole (even if the devs judge you).

 

[Strange Fellow]

So, this game is played backwards? You first fail and then retry?

That's fine. Except I already said that the checks I had left of the list were not possible with my stats. I couldn't assign enough skill points to pass them.

This isn't right. You can increase even a dumpstat skill to 5+ with thoughts, clothes and substance abuse.

Right, so how does that help me to know where to put the points?

I feel like it would be logical to assume that putting the points into skills would be more beneficial than not spending the points at all. But you're the expert, of course.

OK, say I missed a ton of these invisible checks and I could've passed them if I spent all my points... but, I saw no reason to spend them.

Did you not enjoy the internal dialogues? Then there's nothing to get, you just don't like the game.

Say you have no checks left that you can do and still have points... where do you put them?

I strongly doubt that this is possible.

The logical way to me is to either spread them evenly, or "roleplay" by putting them in the skills derived from your main stats.

Roleplay? In an RPG? Preposterous! And no, even with a maxed stat you won't be able to pass all the associated checks without investing in the skills themselves.

 

[CappenVarra]

So, this game is played backwards? You first fail and then retry?

That's fine. Except I already said that the checks I had left of the list were not possible with my stats. I couldn't assign enough skill points to pass them.

This isn't right. You can increase even a dumpstat skill to 5+ with thoughts, clothes and substance abuse.

my 1 Motorics Harrier had 14 perception end game - and it makes a huge difference in the amount of stuff that shows up in the world (using Tab highlight), not to mention passive and active checks

leaving SP unassigned is similar to leaving attribute points unassigned during chargen - sure, the game allows it - but all you achieve is less stuff to do and see, why would anybody do that?

 

[TT1]

Could Dolores Dei be "D&D" and all the talk about Harry speaking in dialogue tree be a metaphor about RPGs?

 

[Prime Junta]

Could Dolores Dei be "D&D" and all the talk about Harry speaking in dialogue tree be a metaphor about RPGs?

I think it's more likely to be a coincidence. She figures in Robert's worldbuilding since long before Disco Elysium was conceived, and she's not the only Innocence, just the Innocence of the current century. The Franconigerian cavalry that pops up in a couple of places is a reference to the previous century's Innocence, Franconegro. Robert does like to sneak in meta references whenever he can get away with it, but I don't think this one makes sense. The dialogue tree thing is most definitely meta.

 

[Daidre]

It is some classy trolling that most interesting book in the game - about Innocences, does not give any actual lore. Your brain just can't digest it and gives you some ridiculous exam. Too juicy of the plot hook for a next installations in the setting?

 

[Terenty]

Is there an explanation of how the deserter managed to infiltrate Whirling in rags find the key for the secret door then hide it on the window and what he was actually doing there?

Just simple yes or no would suffice. If there is, maybe i will find out on my second playthrough.

 

[Terenty]

Thanks

 

[FeelTheRads]

This isn't right. You can increase even a dumpstat skill to 5+ with thoughts, clothes and substance abuse.

Yes. Not really by putting skill points into them though. Stay on track: the point was that I had points left over that I didn't need. I had them left over either because I couldn't assign them, or because I felt I didn't need to.

Also you think I needed them because I didn't pass all the checks. I think I didn't because I didn't care to pass all of them and didn't have any problem finishing the game.
And when the fuck did it became the goal to do everything in one playthrough? Is this Oblivion?
An RPG presents a series of problems and you need to increase your skills to pass them. I passed them and finished the game. Therefore any unused point was not needed.

I feel like it would be logical to assume that putting the points into skills would be more beneficial than not spending the points at all. But you're the expert, of course.

Well, OK, in that case this game is played by clicking on skills randomly because you have no idea and no possible way to find out what you'd ever need.
You know, considering that I usually spend my points in RPGs and didn't in this one, maybe the problem is not with me.
But no, it must be me and the answer was just to click the mouse button!

Did you not enjoy the internal dialogues? Then there's nothing to get, you just don't like the game.

What? I said I saw no reason to spend the points so I might have missed those checks unintentionally. Not that I didn't care about them.
But yeah, I can't say that I really like the game. I don't think the mechanics (as much as they are) are that great, even if they're original.
The only things I like are the writing, the setting and the occasional lulzy moment. I hate many of the themes discussed in the game.

But it's funny how no criticism is possible. Basically all I said is that I finished the game with points left over and the replies are "lol u dont know how to play", like I said I got stuck and the answer was to spend my points.

 

[Tigranes]

I do think that the more you play DE as a larper, the better it works, and the more you treat it as a set of number systems to test and optimise, the worse it works. That's not a criticism of the player, because I don't think it's necessarily their 'fault', just an observation of what it is.

I proceeded by thinking of a general character concept, and picked out skills I thought were most important to that character. And I just kept spending points that way, though of course as you play you get a rough sense of which skills activate when and what counts as 'high', so you are always adjusting to translate your character concept to the game's systems. I thought DE was usually good at allowing you to do this, bar a few weird bottlenecked places.

If instead I played by saying "I want to pass that check and that check" or "I want my guy to be as rich as possible / maximise all the content / get the 'best' ending" etc, I imagine it would be a pretty annoying experience of running around trying to detect checks then fiddle with SPs to pass them. And all that for not even the reward of blowing somebody's brain out, but some dialogue options. At which point you might as well be playing a different game.

 

[Haba]

Yeah. DE is one of the best ROLE-PLAYING games out there. The fact that you can pick an idea of a character and the game actually rolls with it is brilliant. If you decide that you have an feminist agenda, you find yourself unable to say sexist things and eventually start spouting feminist tirades at characters - even when that is not beneficial to you. You find yourself doing things that your Harry would do instead of things that give the best metagaming rewards.

 

[madrigal]

The fact that you can pick an idea of a character and the game actually rolls with it is brilliant.

Except that you can't fail, if you play a loser cop, you still solve the case and get accepted back. The adaptability is a complete illusion. In the final conversation, you can say you lost your gun and badge, you crashed your car joy riding while drunk, show no remorse for any of it and you will still be judged as worthy because you solved the case.

The case you solve by stumbling on an island where the killer is sitting with the murder weapon and no bullets and ill so no way to escape and even if you understand nothing of his motive, any of the motives you choose for the killer are accepted in the final interrogation and if you are honest and say you don't know the motive the conversation loops infinitely until you select one of the three acceptable motives.

 

[Twiglard]

Interesting, the disguised cop at Whirling references an album by Future Sound of London. They had a great demo, and also this song:



The demo:



Actually the game does it twice:

- Far out son of lung
- Her face forms in summertime

From how it is presented in game one gets the impression that the Pale is either null data (as in the "2 mm hole in the world", apparently representing "nothing") or arbitrary data (i.e. whatever data remains at a given memory address at the time of its accession, like in the case of uninitialized variables in a language like C).

No. It's a metaphor for entropy. But strangely enough no references on how tardigrades will inherit the Earth. Bummer.

 

[Terenty]

The case you solve by stumbling on an island where the killer is sitting with the murder weapon and no bullets and ill so no way to escape and even if you understand nothing of his motive, any of the motives you choose for the killer are accepted in the final interrogation and if you are honest and say you don't know the motive the conversation loops infinitely until you select one of the three acceptable motives.

Really?

The developers explicitly said you could be a total failure of a cop and not solve the case. It was their whole schtick before the game released. What happened to that?

 

[Haba]

The fact that you can pick an idea of a character and the game actually rolls with it is brilliant.

Except that you can't fail, if you play a loser cop, you still solve the case and get accepted back. The adaptability is a complete illusion. In the final conversation, you can say you lost your gun and badge, you crashed your car joy riding while drunk, show no remorse for any of it and you will still be judged as worthy because you solved the case.

The case you solve by stumbling on an island where the killer is sitting with the murder weapon and no bullets and ill so no way to escape and even if you understand nothing of his motive, any of the motives you choose for the killer are accepted in the final interrogation and if you are honest and say you don't know the motive the conversation loops infinitely until you select one of the three acceptable motives.

I've seen multiple claims of an ending where Harry gets kicked out.