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Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

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Probably the most critical mainstream review yet, eh?

Don't forget this same person complained about being overwhelmed with quests to do and lack of direction (ie: where my map markers at?)

As for the criticisms, the bit about the game softlocking you I agree with (only one real instance of it, but still) but the rest show a blatant misunderstanding of how the system works. She seems to suggest that the amount of points you have in a skill do not affect the quantity of their input, but they absolutely do. She just doesn't get how passive checks work.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
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Actually, sounds more like they wanted a traditional, stable experience where you can choose who you want to be, you choose to be a good guy and you're a good guy and all that. Rather like AOD, Disco plays best when you buy into its particular world, and can jar when it doesn't - but to call that a generla problem really would be pretty narrow minded.
 

Kasparov

OH/NO
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I'll start by reiterating that at this point I'm here as a superfan rather than the official ZA/UM Codex embassador.

If you have important things to say to ZA/UM then the official channels and the bug reporting survey (LINK) are the way to go. If you like, you can DM me your thoughts or feedback and if I get the chance I'll forward those to the boys and girls at the studio. If not - use the bug reporting survey.

Infinitron would it be overkill to request that the bug reporting link be posted in the OP of this thread for the time being? Would be easiest to direct more agreeablbe Codexers to it
I am bloody over the mooon to have been able to work on this thing. It started out as a vague childhood dream (to do something like the classic Fallout and Torment) that materialised into an actual job. And calling it a job doesn't do this any justice. I could help create something new and unique and fresh and contribute in multiple other ways that give more meaning than a steady pay check anywhere else. The prospects of things coming together stayed for a long time in the general "dream domain". Lo and behold, the planets and stars aligned like in a good Obsidian video game this week and here we are. I am fucking giddy.

I don't know how I can possibly put anything in the discord without it being lost in the sea of comments so fuck it I will just do it like this

Kasparov I am relying on you to take this up the proper channels, now. It would be a shame if I had to use my clout with the leftist clique here to make it so that the ratings on your future posts are...not positive.

Here is the summary of my suggestions, see this post for full (and badly written) rationale.

1. Picking up random items off the street and looting containers should advance time in the same way as dialogue; the game as it stands mechanically incentivizes you to run around the map looting and stealing everything before doing anything else as looting doesn't cost time and nearly everything else does.

2. Drug charges really ought to be reduced to 3 instead of 6, made much harder to come by in the wild (the 2 vials of speed at the back of a random lorry are especially egregious) or both; my character hasn't been using drugs tactically at all (meaning: I've been staying high all the time, not just for specific checks) and still ended up with 5 to 15+ of charges of each drug except the appropriate-rare psychedelic.

3. Increase the cost of healing supplies to 1.5r for one charge and 4r for a pack of three, and make it so that there are way fewer of them in the wild outside of Martinaise (good to have a safety blanket for fresh characters, I suppose); same rationale as above - if my build, which heavily relied on m'drugs to get through the game, was swimming in both drugs and medicinal items (the latter making drug use largely inconsequential) I feel like there is too much abundance out there.

Multiple reviews have mentioned that the economy is too lax so I think I am onto something here. Also Jinn said my ideas are cool ok
Good points all. Thanks for your feedback, I'm sure it's appreciated. I'll be seeing a few of the devs next week and can take 'em up with them.

Fluent, you were useful to the Party when we needed hype, but now your blind enthusiasm is simply unconstructive to making the game even better than it already is. Call me crazy, but I think that softlocking your game when a fictionally-appropriate alternative exists is kind of dumb. Especially when the game projects a hobo option and does not deliver.
Are you a hobo or are you a cop? The "task" is pretty explicit that it is something you have to think about every day.
If you fail to get the money the first time around then Kim is the proverbial Microsoft Word paperclip. After that you are on your own.
Isn't one of your tasks finding rent money for the night? That's part of the challenge.
+1
I've been on your side in general fluent but if you can't progress in the game without rent can you really hold this game up as allowing different choices, that's a pretty big choice you aren't allowed to make

I've been around braindead drug addicts that didn't know shit about drugs as well
This is as convincing as "But I know many black/gay/trans/commie/nazi/left/right/up/down/in/out people!"

Sure. What do you think is a more appropriate way to penalize the player that failed to meet this challenge?

1. Softlock, bitch!

2. Humiliation, some sort of mechanical penalty, literally anything else that allows the character to continue - if at a serious disadvantage.

I thought we liked how this is the one game where we can fail forward? I thought we liked how this is the one game where we *don't* have to rely on saves (except for this one puzzling scenario)?
Check the posts above. As far as critiquing design choices goes - you're welcome and ZA/UM appreciates that, but if you're not powering through the game (~20 hours playtime at finish line) then the player should get enough hints and be well informed about the consequences.

Came across a sort of game-breaking bug in the end:

After going for a nap on the island, the character gets up, but there is no UI and you cannot do anything.

Also, on Day 5 save game stopped working - it is just greyed out the whole time. And no autosaves after that either.

So now I'd have to replay the whole day to finish the game.
Kasparov

If you'd be so kind as to report it, I would appreciate it. For reasons way above. Lady Error like screenshot and savegame and maybe log as well.
 
Last edited:

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Came across a sort of game-breaking bug in the end:

After going for a nap on the island, the character gets up, but there is no UI and you cannot do anything.

Also, on Day 5 save game stopped working - it is just greyed out the whole time. And no autosaves after that either.

So now I'd have to replay the whole day to finish the game.
Kasparov
Um, bro.
Unless you're talking about something else, when you get up it's supposed to be like that. Head for the door on the bottom right of the screen that takes you out to the beach. I was confused at first too.
 
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Kasparov Thanks for the post and your work, man. You contributed to something that impacted me in a way fiction rarely does and I really appreciate that. Just to clarify - because you just tried to style on me and I can't fucking let you do that -

Kasparov said:
As far as critiquing design choices goes - you're welcome and ZA/UM appreciates that, but if you're not powering through the game (~20 hours playtime at finish line) then the player should get enough hints and be well informed about the consequences.

Heh, I never had trouble paying rent (and I didn't start "powering through the game" until Day 3) I didn't even know the softlock was a thing until reading this thread + your discord. I'm merely repping my brothers and sisters who didn't make the cut.

I know you didn't expect a free market hustler myself to look out for other people, but hey - let's just say I have a bit of a messianic complex to go with the good looks and the quick wit.

But style aside, if the intent was to want make good on Garte's talk of "you need money to survive," another alternative would be to just hit the player with a game over screen at 2am if they haven't paid rent yet. I think most people will find that preferable to a softlock, because a softlock is essentially a poorly communicated gameover.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Reported the shirtless bug and the one regarding the sword-on-hip dialogue option even after it's not applicable. As for feedback.
If you like, you can DM me your thoughts or feedback and if I get the chance I'll forward those to the boys and girls at the studio
Such requests are usually extended as a courtesy, versus something that will actually be taken seriously. Not trying to sound smart or angry or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of people usually have game feedback, and the vast majority of it is shit and misunderstood. Appreciate the courtesy, but do you actually want us to PM you feedback?
 

Van-d-all

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The game should just have an obligatory dialogue window at 2 AM forcing the player to go to sleep either in earlier paid room or a dumpster like a crack whore he is. If it was really essential to make Kim fix the bar tab, it should have been similarly done by a exhaustion black out, waking up in your room like it's a hungover Groundhog Day, and learning later on that now you also owe Kim. The timestop feels surreal and game-y, totally breaking the otherwise great immersion of Day1.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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Came across a sort of game-breaking bug in the end:

After going for a nap on the island, the character gets up, but there is no UI and you cannot do anything.

Also, on Day 5 save game stopped working - it is just greyed out the whole time. And no autosaves after that either.

So now I'd have to replay the whole day to finish the game.
Kasparov
Um, bro.
Unless you're talking about something else, when you get up it's supposed to be like that. Head for the door on the bottom right of the screen that takes you out to the beach. I was confused at first too.

No, it's not possible to move or do anything.
Reported it on the form, with savegame and log.
 

Hellion

Arcane
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Quicksave and the problem is resolved. But yeah this happens when you wake up sometimes.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Came across a sort of game-breaking bug in the end:

After going for a nap on the island, the character gets up, but there is no UI and you cannot do anything.

Also, on Day 5 save game stopped working - it is just greyed out the whole time. And no autosaves after that either.

So now I'd have to replay the whole day to finish the game.
Kasparov
Um, bro.
Unless you're talking about something else, when you get up it's supposed to be like that. Head for the door on the bottom right of the screen that takes you out to the beach. I was confused at first too.

No, it's not possible to move or do anything.

Reported it on the form, with savegame and log.

Sometimes not being able to move happens after you wake up, but that’s usually fixable with a quicksave + quickload. Although I guess that’s not much help if you can’t save.
 

Tigranes

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Messages
10,350
I'm curious about the Measurehead options.

Is the only way to get in and see Evrart to beat him up, or submit to his Fantabulous Skull Theories?
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm curious about the Measurehead options.

Is the only way to get in and see Evrart to beat him up, or submit to his Fantabulous Skull Theories?

Or find Cuno’s hideout, take off your pants and fly.

Edit: I think you can also steal a union keycard from the passed out guy on the ground floor of the hotel.
 

Van-d-all

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While I suspect a big part of major reviewers are just now following suit because they smelled in the air that admitting they don't really get the game would be a testament to their retardation, it still saddens me how damn NPC this review sounds. Sure, I can understand how having set personas is somewhat contradictory to typical RPG freedom of self expression, because I felt the same some 30 pages back, but complaining about various parts of psyche going off without control is some grade A Zuckerberg stuff. As if your nose asks for permission to smell shit, or as if you could stop the rush of random trivia storming your mind during conversation. If such moments are indeed alien to the reviewer, I seriously pity her.
 

tripedal

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About that act 2 super-high Shivers check...

Do you need to do something special to unlock it? I have 11 Shivers but I was never even shown the check...
 

Popiel

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
About that act 2 super-high Shivers check...

Do you need to do something special to unlock it? I have 11 Shivers but I was never even shown the check...
You need to find where it happens, progressing the plot - and going on dates - increases your chances, which should initially be miniscule.
 

vota DC

Augur
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Aug 23, 2016
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The problem starts with the ruleset. If they would cut one of the attributes and group skills under Int/Mental/Physical, it would work much better, without any additional scripting and playtesting for extreme builds.

Right now, it seems that some skills are only tagged as physical, because they wanted 6 skills per attribute. So you can make a protagonist with dumbass attributes, but he'll end up having decent level of skills that clearly require brains. And those skills talk to you, often mixing with dumb dialogue. :|

All four stats cover different parts of your brain, though. The voices that talk to you in your sleep--the reptilian brain and the limbic system--are Fysique and Psyche. Motorics gets the cerebellum, the motor cortex, and all the sensory bits like the visual cortex, auditory cortex etc... Intellect gets the frontal lobe.

The groupings make sense and the balance is good. High fysique and motorics both open up a lot of shortcuts. The problem is that the short descriptions for each base stat are oversimplified and/or misleading when you're going through character creation. Although it's easy to figure that out once you go to the next screen to pick your signature skill.

Oh the descriptions make sense. Well that's nice.

Meanwhile, my 1 Int / 6 Phys supermoron cop couldn't understand concept of money and he would take metaphors like "elephant in a room" literally. But ruleset skill groupings gave him high Electrochemistry. So after saying something clearly indicating huge intellectual disability he would then launch into sophisticated description of how drugs work using advanced educated language.

Yes, the groupings make total sense and the balance is good.

Maybe you should actually try to play the game you are shilling you armchair theoretician, instead of analyzing the gameplay based on descriptions on a website.

The ruleset very will might work most of the time, but it definitely has issues with low Int setups.
Authority gives very precise description of law and reasons why you arrest people, it is weird when you fail with high intellect an authority check and when you win the same with low intellect. But I think that the weird effect apply only to encyclopedia, you don't need rethorics or logic to know every law or every drug.
 

Kasparov

OH/NO
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Heh, I never had trouble paying rent (and I didn't start "powering through the game" until Day 3) I didn't even know the softlock was a thing until reading this thread + your discord. I'm merely repping my brothers and sisters who didn't make the cut.
Naw, my intent was not to single you out or anything. You were vocally talking about it and other players have had the same issue so I found it easiest to quote you. I shitpost alot, but if you consider when I do that then usually it's reactive or in step with general shitposting :shittydog:
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
About that act 2 super-high Shivers check...

Do you need to do something special to unlock it? I have 11 Shivers but I was never even shown the check...

I think you need to...

Ask the old washerwoman about Ruby, then check her hut and find the 9mm evidence Ruby was there, then confront her... after that the Shivers check unlocks when you interact with the mural on the FELD building.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Reviewed in the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/reviews/disco-elysium-riveting-delirium/

‘Disco Elysium’: Riveting delirium

RZWFMPRGBJGHFBJ67P54T5KUZQ.png


The first thing to know when you come across Cuno is that he’s a twelve year-old kid; the second thing is that he’s rolling his eyes out on drugs. So, when you ask why he’s slinging rocks at a bloated corpse swinging from a tree and he gets ornery, give a thought to the buzz he’s nursing. Even if you decide to sock him in the face, keep your cool. He’s good to have on your side, plus, he’s hilarious. If you ask him why he refers to himself in the third person, he’ll roar, “Cuno’s the [expletive] FIRST PERSON.”

Cuno is one of the many curiosities in “Disco Elysium,” a scintillating RPG that I’d recommend to anyone who can click a mouse or has a taste for the surreal. I didn’t expect to find another game this year as conspicuously well written as “Sunless Skies,” or as adept in its use of noir as “Neo Cab,” but here it is. “Disco Elysium” pulls off some surprising moves, like making the story of an amnesiac protagonist interesting by emphasizing his biological makeup. This is an RPG where you play an alcoholic cop whose body talks to you — in fact, you are introduced to him via a conversation with his reptilian brain and limbic system.

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Disco Elysium (ZA/UM)

From a blackout state the anonymous man’s mind swims gradually back to consciousness. When he awakens, it’s to a trashed hotel room with bottles on the floor and an unflattering necktie spinning from an overhead fan. Grab the tie off the fan and throw it on and it will start speaking to you — like a devil in your ear — goading you to misbehave. Soon after leaving the hotel room, you meet Kim Kitsuragi. Detective Kitsuragi has just arrived to help you investigate the death of a man hanging from a tree near the hotel. For reasons that won’t become clear until many hours later, the body has been allowed to remain where it is for so long that it’s in an advanced state of decomposition when you find it.

As you try to get to the bottom of the circumstances that led to the victim’s untimely demise you’ll come to learn, just as the protagonist does, about the city of Revachol, with its fractious politics and oddball citizens. By mingling with Revachol’s residents and carpetbaggers, you’ll have plenty of opportunity to get into colorful conversations about the relative merits — or lack thereof — of capitalism, socialism, or communism. Indeed, there are achievements such as The World’s Most Laughable Centrist and Biggest Builder of Communism, which are respectfully awarded for “defend[ing] the political centre for 7 times” and “emply[ing] critical theory 9 times.” (Naturally, I nabbed the latter; no doubt, Theodor Adorno is twirling in his grave.)

SYNOPMDWAVFKLN3ALVCPHUGTCI.jpg

Disco Elysium (ZA/UM)

In “Disco Elysium” there are two ways to level up its saggy, disheveled cop. Skill points can be poured into twenty-four different attributes spread over four categories: intellect, physique, psyche, and motorics. For example, throw a few points into “electrochemistry (physique)” and you’ll be able to gain additional bonuses from indulging in vices, whereas if you pipe some into “inland empire,” — a skill associated with the psyche — you’ll increase the quality of your gut feelings. Listening to your gut can often save you from unnecessary harm such as sparing you from triggering traps. Hits can come in many directions. Speculate about your past in a conversation and what you say may have a negative effect.

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Disco Elysium (ZA/UM)

Another way to alter your stats is to place ideas in your thought cabinet. Items that go into your thought cabinet are things that you need to mull over, for various lengths of time, to arrive at an understanding of certain topics. Thus, at one point I found myself waiting for my guy to finish cogitating on Advanced Race Theory so I could revisit a racist with the craniometrically-suggestive name Measurehead and get him to do something for me. {Hey, I only needed to convince the muscle-bound idiot that I understood him, not subscribe to his theories!) Not every idea placed into the thought cabinet will yield uniformly positive results. Reflecting on your inability to recognize things that should be familiar — known as jamais vu or derealization, the opposite of deja vu — will result in a -1 loss to your Encyclopedia skill because “nothing is familiar.”

Over the length of this very long game you’ll travel back and forth across the streets of Revachol, repeatedly interviewing and following up with people. If you’re not averse to reading loads of text that is often funny and given to riffing on different ideologies, it can be an easy rhythm to get into. Don’t dawdle. Go ahead, run toward the wild side.

Christopher Byrd is a Brooklyn-based writer. His work has appeared in the New York Times Book Review, the New Yorker and elsewhere. Follow him on Twitter @Chris_Byrd.
 
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As if your nose asks for permission to smell shit, or as if you could stop the rush of random trivia storming your mind during conversation. If such moments are indeed alien to the reviewer, I seriously pity her.

You know, this probably says more about me than about anyone else, but I legitimately think less of people who deny having a chaotic internal monologue. Sometimes I will ask acquaintances questions like: "do you ever act before you think - like your body moves on its own and does its thing before you even have time to process it" or "do you ever, like, disagree with yourself? Have a little conversation going on inside your head?" or "or you ever talk to yourself?" or "does the man that watches you fall asleep ever tell you to eat your nail clippings?"

More often than not they say no, I don't know what you mean, and I actually feel disappointed in them. Like they are lying to me - or rather, because they are lying to me. Fucking liars, man. Fuck.
 

Van-d-all

Erudite
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Standin' pretty. In this dust that was a city.
Now that I'm bored silly I started reading those reviews, and lol, that WaPo one sure is shitty. It practically misses the point of being a review. It barely describes the game or what it's about, just mechanically describes (and spoils) random parts of the plot right off the bat. Then raves about Steam achievements, a bit about mechanics, eventually ending in abrupt two phrases that actually describe the game. Quality journalism.
 

Urthor

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
There's at least two checks that you cannot pass, no matter what. Not even if you go bulgarian
The bunker door and the shootout check I assume?

oh, no

The door and the one in the container where you fail if you try to pass and you succeed if you try to fail. I highly suspect a full set of the T-500 armour helps with the shootout
 

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