Jenkem
その目、だれの目?
What 4chan thinks of Disco, Jenkem?
same as here, leftist morons think it is the greatest "rpg" ever made.
sensible people know it's nothing but a poorly written light novel
What 4chan thinks of Disco, Jenkem?
Are you trying to be a faggot, Infinitron? You know that's not why people criticize or disapprove of it. A lot of the strong criticism and disapproval isn't even "I hate DE" but "stop fucking calling DE a RPG" or "DE is too fundamentally lacking to even be a game." You also have people who obsess too much about politics though. But painting the criticisms as just butthurt over the fact that some people apparently call this a classic now is some disingenuous and dumb shit and I know you know better than that, so I really have to ask if you're being a faggot on purpose, playing stupid passive-aggressive games like this.Ah, Disco Elysium. For some, a new all-time classic on par with Planescape: Torment. For others, a game to be hated because so many people think that.
Is it possible to stick to the old voice acting then? I don't really have anything against full voice acting on principle, but VA for VA's sake is dumb, particularly if the new voices are just underwhelming.It's just a larger than usual update adding new content, full voice acting and other stuff. Livestreamers have been playing the Final Cut since yesterday and the voice acting (particularly that of the narrator, who voices all of the game's skills with the same tone) has been controversial, but apparently that can be disabled.
Please stop acting like you invented stats in Visual Novels, interactive fiction games, or CYOAs. And those games pretty much all feature more branching than Disco Elysium does. I know that the world is full of True Artists who are all misunderstood geniuses convinced they have done a totally new thing (even if it has been done 10,000 times before) and that all the criticism is just regressive luddities unable to handle progress/evolution/innovation and how avant-garde you are (and not, say, practical complaints on subjects of quality and mechanical and narrative merits), but please never stoop to that level of burying your head up your ass and sniffing your own farts.Before Disco Elysium Final Cut there was Disco Elysium
Eh, wouldn't go that far. Writing's decent enough for a VN. The introspections are interesting anyway. It's just that as a game and even as a detective story it's obnoxious. As a game the mechanics, gameplay challenges, and potential for reactivity are all obnoxiously deficient. As a RPG the entire character development system is more window dressing than anything with serious gameplay ramifications, as there basically is no form of gameplay challenge at all. Even adventure games have more gameplay challenges than this (usually in the form of puzzles). As a detective game there's no real way to book progress outside of the fixed dimensions the story is intended to go or go about pointing fingers. You progress at the story's pace, not your own. As a detective story it violates a whole slew of rules on how you should do detective stories (and is basically total fail as a whodunit), including "no revealing a brand new character as the culprit in the end," "no using supernatural elements to explain the murder" (at least not without making the supernatural element something the reader can reasonably predict and factor into the nature of the murder), "no revealing necessary evidence to figure out what happened at the end," and the crime must overall be something the reader can logically problem-solve before the story hands you the answer. As a murder mystery in general the story is also hot garbage. The murder mystery is more just a vehicle for the character's introspections, misadventures, and journey of personal discovery rather than a proper murder mystery where the mystery will genuinely draw you in and feel compelling in its own regard.sensible people know it's nothing but a poorly written light novel
Yes, Disco Elysium doesn't do politics well. But no, that's not really important. Just take DE politics for some theme park shit, because it basically is. I don't get why some people get worked up about this crap.
I'm shit at acting. I don't act.Please stop acting like you invented stats in Visual Novels, interactive fiction games, or CYOAs. And those games pretty much all feature more branching than Disco Elysium does. I know that the world is full of True Artists who are all misunderstood geniuses convinced they have done a totally new thing (even if it has been done 10,000 times before) and that all the criticism is just regressive luddities unable to handle progress/evolution/innovation and how avant-garde you are (and not, say, practical complaints on subjects of quality and mechanical and narrative merits), but please never stoop to that level of burying your head up your ass and sniffing your own farts.Before Disco Elysium Final Cut there was Disco Elysium
Guys can anyone confirm or deny this. Original VO is gone forever, for good is no more or is it just some glitch.
I'm shit at acting. I don't act.Please stop acting like you invented stats in Visual Novels, interactive fiction games, or CYOAs. And those games pretty much all feature more branching than Disco Elysium does. I know that the world is full of True Artists who are all misunderstood geniuses convinced they have done a totally new thing (even if it has been done 10,000 times before) and that all the criticism is just regressive luddities unable to handle progress/evolution/innovation and how avant-garde you are (and not, say, practical complaints on subjects of quality and mechanical and narrative merits), but please never stoop to that level of burying your head up your ass and sniffing your own farts.Before Disco Elysium Final Cut there was Disco Elysium
I downloaded this a few months ago, then learned the game was made by a bunch of filthy fucking communists. Haven't touched it since. Commies get the flamethrower.
Yes, Disco Elysium doesn't do politics well. But no, that's not really important.
Eh, wouldn't go that far. Writing's decent enough for a VN. The introspections are interesting anyway. It's just that as a game and even as a detective story it's obnoxious. As a game the mechanics, gameplay challenges, and potential for reactivity are all obnoxiously deficient. As a RPG the entire character development system is more window dressing than anything with serious gameplay ramifications, as there basically is no form of gameplay challenge at all. Even adventure games have more gameplay challenges than this (usually in the form of puzzles). As a detective game there's no real way to book progress outside of the fixed dimensions the story is intended to go or go about pointing fingers. You progress at the story's pace, not your own. As a detective story it violates a whole slew of rules on how you should do detective stories (and is basically total fail as a whodunit), including "no revealing a brand new character as the culprit in the end," "no using supernatural elements to explain the murder" (at least not without making the supernatural element something the reader can reasonably predict and factor into the nature of the murder), "no revealing necessary evidence to figure out what happened at the end," and the crime must overall be something the reader can logically problem-solve before the story hands you the answer. As a murder mystery in general the story is also hot garbage. The murder mystery is more just a vehicle for the character's introspections, misadventures, and journey of personal discovery rather than a proper murder mystery where the mystery will genuinely draw you in and feel compelling in its own regard.
At the end of the day, you're mostly just fucking around in town poking at people and things, and yeah, there's a murder mystery going on, but you don't really need to worry about that just because you're the detective. It'll sort itself out anyway.
There are two types of RPGs: Dungeons & Dragons and games derived from Dungeons & Dragons.But, honestly, I don't even think that DE is an adventure game. I think it's a full fledged CRPG with a different source of inspiration than the usual D&D/Pathfinder/GURPS, aka the holy trinity that CRPG players wrongly mistake for the totality of the tabletop systems out there.
There are two types of RPGs: Dungeons & Dragons and games derived from Dungeons & Dragons.But, honestly, I don't even think that DE is an adventure game. I think it's a full fledged CRPG with a different source of inspiration than the usual D&D/Pathfinder/GURPS, aka the holy trinity that CRPG players wrongly mistake for the totality of the tabletop systems out there.
Disco Elysium is even less of an adventure game than it is an RPG, and clearly is inspired in its conception by RPGs, but the designer discarded the majority of RPG elements. Virtually nothing of exploration or combat remains in Disco Elysium, which instead relies heavily on scripted dialogue sequences, and even the character stats and thought cabinet ideas impact the game chiefly by providing the player with additional or alternative flavor text.
why even call it pen & paper? toss them both; just tell each other stories as you french each other with your fetid taste.
It's pretty simple: Don't support communists. Especially in their capitalist endeavors. I had already paid for the game and couldn't get a refund, so the next best thing was not playing it.That seems dumb to me but you do you.
"Disguised as" being key, I suppose. Honestly, I don't really know those stories, and I'm not sure I care either. Maybe they are proper detective stories with other elements thrown in, maybe not. Maybe they're just murder mysteries more than detective stories, I wouldn't know. But I can tell you that DE fails to operate as a proper detective story. You can spin examples of other stories that have detective protagonists without really being detective stories (hell, noir genre is full of 'em), but that's not exactly proving anything. I'm just pointing out there that as a detective story the game is fail, which it is.Like in Durrenmatt's The Pledge, Gadda's That Awful Mess on Via Merulana or Eco's The Name of the Rose? AKA Contes philosophiques disguised as detective novels, which, by their very nature, don't need not care to adhere to the genre conventions?
Telltale's crud is pretty much its own beast and those aren't really adventure games either. Not to mention the company went out of business because their products sucked and the narratives were shit. Telltale's "Adventures" were extreme cases of fake C&C where their stories suffered from poorly thought-out narrative needs contradicting player choices and creating many scenes where it feels like the character they are responding to isn't the one you're playing as the story goes on with its own tangent, and the novelty of their shit wore off. Anyway, yes, some people use the Adventure genre label as a dumping ground for storytelling "games" without any gameplay, but that doesn't make it an accurate descriptor. Telltale stuff has precious little relation to the genre it claims to share a label with. Just having a story isn't enough to make it an adventure game.Aside for that, I think you've missed the last 15+ years of Talltale adventure games if you still believe that puzzles (or any other form of challenge) are a staple of the genre.
I notice there are some folks who just can't help but get bothered when someone points out that calling a game a RPG isn't enough to make it one, like they're enamored with being able to call something a RPG regardless of whether it fits the description. Look, your "fully-fledged RPG" (Feel free to add some exclamation marks so you can make it even more convincing while you're at it.) just so happens to be missing actual gameplay or a meaningful system of character development. So that shit is neither "fully-fledged" nor a "role-playing game" nor hardly even a "game" at all. Entertainment product, sure. Maybe one you even like or consider good. But not a game. Games, y'see, have gameplay (I know that's hard for some people to comprehend these days, but it's true!). So for example, CYOA books aren't exactly games either. Neither are Visual Novels. (Mind-blowing, I know.) Now, I don't give a fuck about D&D. I think the D&D legacy of computer RPGs is largely stupid as shit, hopelessly derivative, and generally contributed to the wave of retarded RPGs that only feature combat as their role-playing gameplay (because D&D absolutely sucks at non-combat things, being a dungeon-crawling system), and I'm all for RPGs that focus on non-combat gameplay. I want more of that. But the trouble here is that when D&D-ish RPGs are combat slogs that suck at non-combat gameplay, it isn't enough to just remove combat. You need some kind of gameplay to be a RPG, and DE just has dialogue checks, for largely cosmetic dialogues, no less. It has no meaningful system of character building either. Everything just amounts to skill modifiers and those skills are overwhelmingly just cosmetic dialogue shit, really. Sure, it goes to lengths to try to look like an RPG, but it's missing all of the actual needed mechanics under the hood. If I were to show you a car that's missing an engine or the ability to spin its wheels, it would reasonably speaking fail to be a car, even if people insist on calling it one. By the same token, DE is not a RPG. It's just a Visual Novel that calls itself an RPG.But, in all honesty, I don't even think that DE is an adventure game. I think it's a full fledged CRPG with a different source of inspiration than the usual D&D/Pathfinder/GURPS that CRPG players mistakes for the totality of the tabletop systems out there.
By the same token, DE is not a RPG. It's just a Visual Novel that calls itself an RPG.
It's pretty simple: Don't support communists.
p. muchThey shit all over communism in the game itself, by the way.
"Disguised as" being key, I suppose. Honestly, I don't really know those stories, and I'm not sure I care either. Maybe they are proper detective stories with other elements thrown in, maybe not. Maybe they're just murder mysteries more than detective stories, I wouldn't know. But I can tell you that DE fails to operate as a proper detective story. You can spin examples of other stories that have detective protagonists without really being detective stories (hell, noir genre is full of 'em), but that's not exactly proving anything. I'm just pointing out there that as a detective story the game is fail, which it is.Like in Durrenmatt's The Pledge, Gadda's That Awful Mess on Via Merulana or Eco's The Name of the Rose? AKA Contes philosophiques disguised as detective novels, which, by their very nature, don't need not care to adhere to the genre conventions?
Telltale's crud is pretty much its own beast and those aren't really adventure games either. Not to mention the company went out of business because their products sucked and the narratives were shit. Telltale's "Adventures" were extreme cases of fake C&C where their stories suffered from poorly thought-out narrative needs contradicting player choices and creating many scenes where your entire conduct is grossly misinterpreted and the story goes on with its own tangent, and the novelty of their shit wore off. Anyway, yes, some people use the Adventure genre label as a dumping ground for storytelling "games" without any gameplay, but that doesn't make it an accurate descriptor. Telltale stuff has precious little relation to the genre it claims to share a label with. Just having a story isn't enough to make it an adventure game.Aside for that, I think you've missed the last 15+ years of Talltale adventure games if you still believe that puzzles (or any other form of challenge) are a staple of the genre.
I notice there are some folks who just can't help but get bothered when someone points out that calling a game a RPG isn't enough to make it one, like they're enamored with being able to call something a RPG regardless of whether it fits the description. Look, your "fully-fledged RPG" (Feel free to add some exclamation marks so you can make it even more convincing while you're at it.) just so happens to be missing actual gameplay or a meaningful system of character development. So that shit is neither "fully-fledged" nor a "role-playing game" nor hardly even a "game" at all. Entertainment product, sure. Maybe one you even like or consider good. But not a game. Games, y'see, have gameplay (I know that's hard for some people to comprehend these days, but it's true!). So for example, CYOA books aren't exactly games either. Neither are Visual Novels. (Mind-blowing, I know.) Now, I don't give a fuck about D&D. I think the D&D legacy of computer RPGs is largely stupid as shit, hopelessly derivative, and generally contributed to the wave of retarded RPGs that only feature combat as their role-playing gameplay (because D&D absolutely sucks at non-combat things, being a dungeon-crawling system), and I'm all for RPGs that focus on non-combat gameplay. I want more of that. But the trouble here is that when D&D-ish RPGs are combat slogs that suck at non-combat gameplay, it isn't enough to just remove combat. You need some kind of gameplay to be a RPG, and DE just has dialogue checks, for largely cosmetic dialogues, no less. It has no meaningful system of character building either. Everything just amounts to skill modifiers and those skills are overwhelmingly just cosmetic dialogue shit, really. Sure, it goes to lengths to try to look like an RPG, but it's missing all of the actual needed mechanics under the hood. If I were to show you a car that's missing an engine or the ability to spin its wheels, it would reasonably speaking fail to be a car, even if people insist on calling it one. By the same token, DE is not a RPG. It's just a Visual Novel that calls itself an RPG.But, in all honesty, I don't even think that DE is an adventure game. I think it's a full fledged CRPG with a different source of inspiration than the usual D&D/Pathfinder/GURPS that CRPG players mistakes for the totality of the tabletop systems out there.