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Dorateen

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With regard to split-party mechanics, in Realms of Arkania: Star Trail, there were several instances where this occurred including the Dwarven Pit of Finsterkoppen, a location the dwarves denied access to elves and druids because prejudice good sense. The player would have to split those characters off the main party, and then enter the dungeon leaving the others behind. But, those elves and druids could use other means such as a camouflage spell and thus enter separately in order to rejoin the other player characters.

Not exactly analogous to what D:OS 2 has in mind, but it does remind me of how a single player game could incorporate divided parties of multiple characters.
 

Neanderthal

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In my experience they've been implemented bloody well in games that were better simulated: Arcanum I had shit loads to do, I couldn't carry 20 fucking suits o mail for a start, I could go to a fence down in poor quarter an risk gettin mugged by Orc thugs. I could go to taverns or gentlemans club an gamble or take part in a quiz, I could go to library an read, I could go to whorehouse an fuck, I could sleep since its night, I could go out an rob merchants, I could visit Necromancers that only opens at night, I could go an do some other quest some o which require night work. Better simulated gameworld, more to do, less busywork, more content.

Ultimas, same shit, I had crap loads to do an enjoyed life going on around me an all o possibilities, an if I wanted I could find a bit o wilderness, throw down me bedroll an kip til I wanted. Divine Divinity same. Witchers, crap loads to do an see, an gameworld were interesting in and of itsen. Make a better simulated gameworld wi shit loads to do an get away from grind o games focused on nothing but convenience for player, thats whats driving decline an all apologising for devs who strip features that were able to be implemented a quarter of a century back.

Hard day at an office, pencils get heavy do they?
:hahyou:
 
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Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
With regard to split-party mechanics, in Realms of Arkania: Star Trail, there were several instances where this occurred including the Dwarven Pit of Finsterkoppen, a location the dwarves denied access to elves and druids because prejudice good sense. The player would have to split those characters off the main party, and then enter the dungeon leaving the others behind. But, those elves and druids could use other means such as a camouflage spell and thus enter separately in order to rejoin the other player characters.
Not exactly analogous to what D:OS 2 has in mind, but it does remind me of how a single player game could incorporate divided parties of multiple characters.
Yeah. For a start, Star Trail is a true party-based game that isn't about a Chosen One. Cool to hear that it used substantial party splitting mechanics.
 

Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Aren't you supposed to stick together like in the first game?

One person could be in the town while another person would be fighting/exploring in a different section of the map.

Yeah I know this, but the game just felt odd while doing this. Quests just randomly popping up, and if someone was out killing you missed out on those encounters... and it felt (at least in the beginning) like all the fights was designed for 4 persons. Maybe they will fix some of these issues.
 

Lacrymas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
People seem to be misunderstanding what "atmosphere" is when talking about day/night cycles (or maybe in general). I don't even know if that's a real thing that exists when talking about video games, at least not in the way people are going on about it. What seems to be the "narrative" is that night + undead = creepy (and any variation of this equation), and that that is "atmosphere", which is pretty ridiculous. People are confusing aesthetic intent and substance with this abstract concept of "atmosphere" that doesn't say anything. When we are talking about Diablo's (because someone gave it as an example) creepiness and undead + night = atmosphere, we really mean that the aesthetics are powerful enough to induce fear or fascination with the macabre. This, however, is intentional and controlled, it's not something that merely happened on coincidence and you interpret it as "atmospheric". Day/night cycles which are just there are contrary to that notion of control and can actually detract from aesthetic pleasure because of their randomness when taken into account player interaction. Diablo would be ruined if it got sunny and happy-go-lucky at intervals. I don't even know what I'm trying to say, because this thought of "atmosphere" (in gaming, there is a concept like this in architecture, but is ultimately as unsubstantial) is so abstract, vague and meaningless that I can't understand what I'm trying to criticize about it. What I do know, however, is that day/night cycles don't add aesthetic quality simply because of their existence, just like anything else without control and intent. Was Oblivion a better game because it had day/night cycles? Fuck no. Swen is right that they have to serve some kind of purpose beyond a palette swap and unlock triggers for quests. Lacking day/night cycles because you want them to be meaningful is not laziness, it's understanding basic concepts in aesthetics.

I feel like we've already talked about this and someone was saying that they can't enjoy RPGs without day/night cycles (which is obviously a call for help and therapy). What can be done is to have specific moments be in night/day-time to accentuate the idea of those moments. I'm pretty sure we are going to see something to that effect in D:OS2, I think one of the towns in D:OS1 was in perpetual night.
 

gaussgunner

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How do they handle "one person wants to advance time while players elsewhere are doing their own thing" :M

Aren't you supposed to stick together like in the first game?

Maybe there's so much Source that the teleporter stones will transport you across time as well as space. :lol:

About day/night, I think realism is always a questionable motive. If it just means everything's closed at night, you may as well say the player always sleeps at night, and don't even bother to show it. Night should add something to the game without being a pain in the ass. So you can do mundane shit like trading any time. You get quests from written notes, clues, or stationary npcs. You get advantages at night, like hiding from the guards. You can ambush traveling npcs. You can sneak into their house when they're at work and vice versa. And nighttime should look special, with moonlight, torches, fireflies and stuff, not just a dim version of daytime.
 

anus_pounder

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Zombra

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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
If it just means everything's closed at night, you may as well say the player always sleeps at night, and don't even bother to show it.
Absolutely correct.

In this vein, I was thinking about how Bloodlines does day/night right: in that setting, day straight up doesn't exist on screen because the player can't do anything then, and it's completely fine.

Don't, especially when people are agreeing with you (and gaussgunner is agreeing with you just like I do). Really this whole argument is Mazisky vs. everyone else (including you). He'd be very happy to see Larian throw in a meaningless version of day/night where the screen turns dark sometimes and that's it. Everyone else (including me, you, and Swen) wants it either done right or not at all.
 
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Mazisky

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Really this whole argument is Mazisky vs. everyone else (including you).

Since when everyone hates day\night cycles in a Rpg and i'm the only one in the whole world who appreciate them?
Since when your opinion=everyone else, mine=only me?

I guess you lack day\night cycles in real life too, this is a clear result of lack of sleep
 

Bruma Hobo

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People erroneously believe that Original Sin is some kind of an Ultima successor, which is not. It may have some of its simulationist elements, but their goal is to provide a game with fun and over the top combat mechanics and silly humour, not a verisimilar adventure with detailed worldbuilding and immersive gameplay (it certainly reminds me more of World of Xeen than any Ultima game).

I would love an authentic Ultima successor with a detailed day/night cycle, no hand-holding, a parser-based dialogue system, and an interesting and plausible world with tons of stuff to do other than fighting mobs... But Original Sin 2 will not be that game, it will be about blowing shit up in turn-based combat and having some laughs with friends. And better to focus on that noble goal than trying to combine both things and making a mess.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.gamecrate.com/preview-di...ies-series-true-masterclass-roleplaying/14515

PREVIEW: DIVINITY: ORIGINAL SIN 2 SOLIDIFIES THE SERIES AS A TRUE MASTERCLASS IN ROLEPLAYING

What happens when you take one of the most detailed and complex roleplaying games released in the past decade, and make it even better? That’s exactly what Larian Studios did. They took their smash-hit Divinity: Original Sin, then improved it in every single way, released it on consoles (along with a free update for all PC owners of the original), and called it theEnhanced Edition. It is, bar none, one of the most engrossing RPGs made in recent memory.

What makes it so great is its attention to detail. You can interact with every object, speak and trade with every NPC, and truly roleplay your character like no other game. Disagreements between party members are frequent and tumultuous and the combat is a delightful interpretation of turn-based fighting, reminiscent of tabletop Dungeons & Dragons.

After going hands-on with the sequel, I can confirm that Divinity: Original Sin 2 takes everything that worked in the first game, then makes it even better, more detailed, and more immersive in every way.

Defining The Dialogue

divinity%202.jpg

One of the most monumental changes made to the game occurs in such a way that you may not notice it immediately, even though it impacts the fundamental core of how the game operates. I’m talking about the dialogue.

For as long as we have had RPGs with dialogue options, players have been choosing from a list of fully-written responses (such as the first Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, and countless others) or choosing short summaries of things your character says (such as with virtually every recent Bioware game.) Larian have opted for a slightly different approach with Original Sin 2.

This time around, you will choose not what your character says, but how they say it. For example, after greeting an NPC at one point in my demo, they returned my mouse click with a sneer and some harsh words. Instead of listing out dialogue options such as, “Alright, well f*** off then,” or “Woah, buddy! Calm down!” I had dispositions to pick from. My choices consisted of things like *Regard the lizard man with a menacing glare and stand your ground* or *Step backwards and approach more cautiously, insisting that you mean him no harm*. See the difference?

As an avid player of RPGs of both the digital and analog variety, the choices I make during conversations are often regarded with just as much importance as the ones I make on the battlefield. When dialogue options don’t fit the character I’m roleplaying, it feels off. This solves that incongruity and adds an additional layer of complexity and depth to an already ambitious formula.

Origin Stories Add Depth

divinity2_2.jpg

Another big alteration is the addition of origins for your character. Not only do you pick your race, class, and general appearance, but you also get to choose one of several different origins. The origin you select informs an over-arching personal quest that you can only receive as that character, as well as how the other characters and world itself interact with you.

Everything adds up to a much more nuanced and intricate roleplaying experience, one that necessitated essentially doubling the writing team alone to handle the additional workload needed for this iteration. That’s also why you won’t see very much, if any, voice acting. As of now, the dialogue is still in flux with Early Access coming soon, so it’s not feasible currently.

Any of the origin stories you don’t pick can be recruited as party members throughout your travels, although they won’t have access to their origin quests unless they’re being played by another person. The first Divinity: Original Sin allowed for two-player cooperative play, but now that’s been expanded to four potential players.

This is especially interesting due to the fact that origin stories can often overlap at certain moments in the game, and may even cause your party to split up – or get into a fight. You may very well end up fighting a former party member to the death over a core disagreement about which path to take during one of the game’s pivotal plot moments.

Player Vs. Player Combat

divinity2_3.jpg

One of the biggest fan requests from the original game was for the ability to fight other players. In addition to being able to duke it out against your friends mid-campaign, you can also engage in some player vs. player warfare in a dedicated Arena Mode as well.

In this mode, two characters face off against two other characters within Original Sin’sinventive turn-based combat system. Everything plays out much more fluidly in this iteration of the game, with more visually appealing effects and even more systems to think about.

The inclusion of height advantages now – particularly for increasing attack distance for ranged characters – is a big improvement. More status and ground effects, as well as more ways to combine elements together, all add up to making the combat in Original Sin 2 an even better version of the previous game’s already fantastic system.

Streamlining Without Simplifying

divinity2_4.jpg

From the revamped dialogue system and inclusion of player vs. player combat, to the dramatically improved inventory management and additional combat effects, Divinity: Original Sin 2 is shaping up to the best example of what an ideal sequel should look like. The core of the game is retained, but it’s improved upon and expanded to allow for an even more engrossing and incredible adventure. It puts over $2 million of Kickstarter money to good use, demonstrating the best side of the game development community.

Now that Larian Studios is working on an upcoming new game in the Divinity franchise, most people might think the team would opt for expanding the game’s audience, building on its foundation to create a more traditional roleplaying game that can be enjoyed by more casual players. That’s not the case here.

In the case of Divinity: Original Sin 2, the developers look towards the players that are knocked prone on the ground, surrounded by undead monsters, grasping at their last shreds of life, and drive a sword into their chest, placing a triumphant exclamation mark to begin the sequel’s legacy.
 

V_K

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For as long as we have had RPGs with dialogue options, players have been choosing from a list of fully-written responses (such as the first Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, and countless others) or choosing short summaries of things your character says (such as with virtually every recent Bioware game.)
:deadtroll:
 

gaussgunner

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For as long as we have had RPGs with dialogue options, players have been choosing from a list of fully-written responses (such as the first Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity, and countless others) or choosing short summaries of things your character says (such as with virtually every recent Bioware game.)
:deadtroll:

But...

Larian have opted for a slightly different approach with Original Sin 2.

Had me worried, but doesn't sound like they're trying to trick you with misleading shorthand dialogue choices.

Everything adds up to a much more nuanced and intricate roleplaying experience, one that necessitated essentially doubling the writing team alone to handle the additional workload needed for this iteration. That’s also why you won’t see very much, if any, voice acting. As of now, the dialogue is still in flux with Early Access coming soon, so it’s not feasible currently.
Moar walls of text!! :decline:
No voice acting! :incline:

I dunno. But it has more crafting? Eh... I can't take any more. I'll pass.
 

Aenra

Guest
Unorus has a point, but in typical nerd fashion, he pushes it to the extreme..
- What they were after, ultima-wise, they've already got.. interactivity, wider range of possible solutions per each goal (player or game driven), quests and environment interlapsing. Who told you they were after cloning it, or emulating it in each and every one of its qualities?

As to night and day cycle, again more nerd wars..
- I'd rather have a solely aesthetic one, than none at all. Adds to the setting, adds to the mood. Period. One thing if it's always morning/fixed time of day, quite another if staying long enough you get to --see- the sky turn dark/sun rise. If you are a juvenile, like Lacry above, coming here to talk the uni talk, or a diehard chair-sweater (nerd), maybe everything has to be perfect and 101% verisimilar and systematic and deep. Perfect is great. Good can suffice too. I'm not after games where life or its depiction thereof becomes a tangible concept. The illusion of time passing by is --always--, always better than the reminder of how everything you're looking at is frozen/in limbo.
- Conveniently neglected; modding. First one supported it, second one will too. Had the framework been in place, people like SniperHF (to name a local) would already have fleshed it out further. So spare me the bullshit. It would have been cool even as a visual gimmick alone. They fucked up on this one, period.

And lastly, have touched on this before, there are many ways to make a game more linear, or more restricting; a heavy emphasis on story and progressing through the narrative is one of them. I neither have nor will touch this before it's at an 'EE' state, so got no clue how much it will be an issue, if at all. But the danger is there. Just as the danger of tiring the player is now more imminent. There is a limit to how much one may read before getting fatigued. And that is assuming they find themselves enjoying the tone, style and plot in the first place. Should they not, how will they stomach it this time around. To be seen :)

edit: in case this causes butthurt, Lacrymas i doubt anyone here thinks you dumb, or uneducated. I'm betting my nuts most however think you young. There's no need for over-elaborating or glossing, won't elevate you any further than the actual gist of your post; so just.. try and speak plainly.
 
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SniperHF

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I'm all in on alphas and betas. Especially Larian's because they actually patch the thing frequently. In the D:OS 1 and Dragon Commander betas they put out patches weekly for some stretches. I can draw a direct line between a few specific suggestions made by posters and things that got added to both of those games. So if nothing else it's better they have as many non-retards (In b4 someone calls me a retard) yelling at them as possible. As opposed to all the "I WANNA BUILD A HOUSE" types.

That's one of my disappointments of Torment's beta compared to WL2 is they just kinda have left it to rot only giving it 1 and a half major updates.

And if nothing else I can get a jump start on how the new crap works for the next editor.
 

Aenra

Guest
If you give us a d/n schedule that can tie into the main campaign, i will seriously consider blowing you.
emphasis on 'consider'
 

Mazisky

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The illusion of time passing by is --always--, always better than the reminder of how everything you're looking at is frozen/in limbo.

Yeah well, if all night time does is make your screen go dark, there's no illusion.

You and Zombra assume that they do ingame nights with simply lowering gamma setting, when in fact there is always a bit of effort and lot of details like dynamic lighting, moon reflections, environmental fx, torches, building lights etc. etc., and all those things togheter contribute to create the illusion of a real world and time passing.

So no, it's not only a "screen go dark"
 
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