DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

[Jezal_k23]

BTW about the glory kills - I was skeptical as hell when I first saw them before Doom 2016 came out too. As it stands, though, they fulfill a role in the combat and there's a sort of rhythm to them that I like. They're short and don't interrupt the flow. Play the game on a high difficulty and you'll have moments where you'll need a strategic glory kill to regain health.

I mean fine, the idea behind them is fucking dumb: press F when enemy glows orange (derp), but I swear it works. Just try playing the game and making the most out of the combat, you'll find that no doubt glory kills will be part of it (but you have to use them well in higher difficulties - namely Nightmare - because if you use them in a bad moment it could put you in a worse situation) along with the chainsaw (for ammo recovery).

Also, a desperate glory kill on a harmless zombie with low health can save your life too, so that's probably one reason they exist.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

They've altered most enemies appearance to more closely resemble the originals.
It think that canon gadget may make things easier and it is completely unnecessary.
They seem to have toned down the arenas.
The new weapons and enemies seem pretty cool. Let's just hope they well designed.
There seems to be more focus in platforming (the hook-shot and the environmental objects like the poles and wall-climbing) so that means levels be more vertical and maybe bigger.
That extra life nonsense is just fucking stupid. Is this supposed to be a fucking Super Mario game?

Here's a screenshot of the level's map:

Overall I would say this one it's a straight up improvement over the last one. And I know exactly what I'll get with this.
Maybe I'll even buy it if the Snap Map isn't shit this time around.
Sadly the music is still ear raping cancer for the most part. Couldn't they just ask permission to use this:

The enemies looked rather easy in the demo (and sometimes really dumb). In one of the fights, the mancubus didn't even attack the player properly. And the demons go down faster than in the original games.

Probably just for the presentation. This as been common practice developers make since the Skyrim demo presentation in 2011. They use characters that already are in higher levels and go trough low-level areas/quests for the purposes of the presentation. One thing that even confirms this is the amount of new weapons they've found troughout the level.

I will never, ever, ever get used to that quick time shit in the middle of combat and that is why this game will always be garbage.

remove press F to win button
make movement faster

If they increase the movement speed then they'll also have to increase the enemies speed, damage and/or quantity to maintain the difficulty level. But yeah if they did that it would be some pretty good incline.
Actually I was curious about the movement speed because from what I remember of my playthrough of the 2016 game, it seemed much faster. So I went to watch videos of the old one and compared it with the movement speed of this new one and concluded it was equal to the former. Still not convinced I booted the 2016 game, for the first time since December, and indeed it was much faster than the movement speed in the videos.
What was causing this, I wondered? Then it hit me, I am running the game at average of 150 fps, and YouTube videos can only go as far as 60fps.

As for the glory kills, I think none of you guys figured out their purpose.
For starter's you can't instantly kill an enemy. You have to first weaken him to near death. Second if you have your HP/Ammo completely filled and glory kill an enemy no Health/Ammo Packs will come out. However the closer your HP/Ammo is to 0 the more Health/Ammo Packs the player will receive when they glory kill an enemy. Also the bigger and stronger the enemy is, the more Health/Ammo Packs he will spooge out when glory killed (and vice versa).
What this means is that when a player is close to death the best way for him to stay alive is to kill the most amount of enemies the fastest way possible. It's a subtle and clever way to make the players play aggressively and reward them for putting themselves in dangerous positions.
In fact this is something the best Action games since Devil May Cry have been doing in similar fashions.
What they could do is cut the amount enemies give you (maybe even the weaker enemies give nothing) and/or you can only put an enemy in a glory kill state with certain weapons/attacks.

Should've just named it Hell On Earth

Should have called it Eternal DOOM.

I still don't understand what's the fuss with nu-DOOM around here.
The game is not the second coming of Charles Bronson and everyone recognizes that the game is easily overshadowed by the original's quality but it is definitively a good game, with emphasis on the fucking gameplay. Unfortunately by it's last levels it loses traction and repetition sets in, nevertheless it's still the best shooter to have come out in ages (well now that honor goes to Ion Maiden). And it revitalized interest in single-player shooters so it only brought us incline.
Even Gggmanlives that correctly understands every single design aspect of the originals, thinks the same about this reboot:

 

[theSavant]

I got bored and annoyed 1 minute after the gameplay demo started... fastforwarded and skipped to the end



Impressive artwork though.

If the game is as bland as Serious Sam, I at least hope they have coop included. Have they?

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I at least hope they have coop included. Do they?

You can play co-op in the 2016 game trough Snap Maps (user made maps).

 

[theSavant]

Fuck them shitty snap maps, if you can't play the campaign in coop.

 

[Lyric Suite]

You wish the game was like Serious Sam.

 

[theSavant]

No. But it obviously tries to copy Serious Sam's gameplay. The only halfway acceptable way to play a repetitive and bland game, is in coop.

 

[Big Wrangle]

This is more like Painkiller on steroids, if we're being honest. Thought they seem to be taking cues from the original Doom this time.

 

[Durandal]

For starter's you can't instantly kill an enemy. You have to first weaken him to near death.

Apply a rocket or a super shotty to an Imp's face and see what happens

Second if you have your HP/Ammo completely filled and glory kill an enemy no Health/Ammo Packs will come out. However the closer your HP/Ammo is to 0 the more Health/Ammo Packs the player will receive when they glory kill an enemy.

You'll receive extra emergency drops on low health when killing enemies the regular way, you don't need to do Glory Kills for that


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[Durandal]

No. But it obviously tries to copy Serious Sam's gameplay. The only halfway acceptable way to play a repetitive and bland game, is in coop.

Serious Sam = hundreds of braindeadenemies blindly charging at you from the front in a straight line on a massive flat space while you are backpedaling and killing off everything in time before they get to you
D44M = handful of agile and responsive enemies in skateparks running circles around you while throwing ultrafast projectiles at you and expecting you to run towards them instead of the other way around

???

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[DJOGamer PT]

For starter's you can't instantly kill an enemy. You have to first weaken him to near death.

Apply a rocket or a super shotty to an Imp's face and see what happens

Second if you have your HP/Ammo completely filled and glory kill an enemy no Health/Ammo Packs will come out. However the closer your HP/Ammo is to 0 the more Health/Ammo Packs the player will receive when they glory kill an enemy.

You'll receive extra emergency drops on low health when killing enemies the regular way, you don't need to do Glory Kills for that

That will instantly kills the Imp not weaken him. And yes if have low HP and kill them the regular way they will drop packs, but if you glory kill them you receive even more packs. But yes I see your point they could still have this mechanic without the glory kill animations.

 

[Israfael]

What was causing this, I wondered? Then it hit me, I am running the game at average of 150 fps, and YouTube videos can only go as far as 60fps.

Just watch any Doom 2016 videos, it's much faster. Game speed does not change above 60 fps (and it actually does not change below, you just don't see all the frames), I felt no difference while doing Arcade mode both at 200 fps (cap) in 1080p and 90 fps at 4K

PS Not really keen to defend this game, but finishers actually have downsides (not really apparent on lower difficulties or in non-arcade mode where the amount of enemies is probably 'optimized' for console gamers) - just fire up Kardingr sanctum or Lazarus labs on higher difficulties in Arcade mode and try to kill something big with execution while other enemies are around. I just preferred to kill green and normal Mancubi, the Archvile wannabes with Gauss gun / Armored warfare infinite micro-rockets because getting close to them was not worth it (sure, in normal mode you can just reload and here you only have two lives at the best in general). Chainsaw was the same kind of deal, especially with several Barons around (they can stomp you in two hits with full armor and hp)

 

[Jezal_k23]

Nightmare especially punishes you for badly thought out glory kills.

 

[Sentinel]

For starter's you can't instantly kill an enemy.

That's irrelevant. The point is that the cinematic completely disrupts the flow of the game. It's shit and unexcusable. That and the fact that you're pretty much immortal because "huh oh, I need hp. Oh, no worries, there's this guy glowing blue to max out my hp!". Shit mechanic that doesn't belong in the game.

 

[Jezal_k23]

They don't disrupt the flow of the game. They actually contribute to the rhythm/cadence of the combat in the game since they were done well, and by that I mean the common animations are always below a second in length (usually half a second or so, a second at most). The longest possible animations which are for really large enemies like Barons can take between 1 and 2 seconds at most, which is actually punishing on Nightmare as people have been saying. You're immortal during the animation but not anymore when it ends, which can actually leave you surrounded and you might die if you do a badly planned glory kill (because the health they give you, even when you're in low health, is as a rule lower than the damage enemies can do, at least on the harder difficulty levels that I strongly recommend you play on).

I think some people have been reactionary in the sense that they saw that the game has these glory kills and went "fuck these takedowns, this is not Doom, I refuse to play this popamole game", and despite that they feel like they're in a position to make assumptions of how the game works and how it plays ("so I can recover my entire health pool with a glory kill and I'm invincible doing it, FUCK THIS GAME") without having actually experienced much (or any) of it at all and knowing how it actually plays, how the glory kills are actually balanced so the game is not trivialized by these mechanics, how the animations actually affect the combat flow, etc.

You wanna know what glory kills actually do? They improve the flow of combat so when you're at low health instead of retreating to health packs you STAY in the fight and try to pull off a glory kill. Even then, if you're at very low health it's gonna give you around +50hp at most (and it usually gives you somewhere around +5 to +15 depending on your current hp) and monsters will easily hit harder than that on Nightmare, so it may or may not save you since you're still in danger after you execute the kill.

id are not fucking idiots (anymore) and they actually thought about these problems before you did when you came here to claim they exist.

Here's footage of some gameplay from an early level to back up my arguments that the glory kills don't disrupt the flow of the combat:

 

[Haba]

None of that is relevant: glory kills break the flow of the game. They take the control away from the player. It is not me slaughtering the enemies, it is the pre-recorded animation.

Imagine a Duke 3D game where the shitting down the throat animation doesn't play once when you kill a boss, but several times every level.

It just does not fit the game, no matter how short the animation is and how much "tactical depth" it adds.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I guess it comes down to this: I don't really care about not being in control for under a second. If it adds tactical depth and addresses what was arguably a problem in the oldschool FPSes (retreating for medkits which does genuinely break the flow of combat) then I'm all for it. In this game you fight until you win or you die, no retreat (unless you're gonna be a pussy about it).

 

[Lyric Suite]

There was no such problem with oldschool FPSes. If there never is any backtracking in this game it shows just how shit the level design is, because you are not actually interacting with the level, it's just scenery you are watching while moving along on a fixed rail.

 

[Jaedar]

Here's footage of some gameplay from an early level to back up my arguments that the glory kills don't disrupt the flow of the combat:

See, it's fine that you think that, but for me I got 3 seconds into your video before there was a stupid and pointless landing animation that broke the flow of the game. This is the feeling I had in the demo too, I could never get into it because every 10 seconds the game took away the controls to play some dumb animation of a kill or climbing a ledge or something.

You'll receive extra emergency drops on low health when killing enemies the regular way, you don't need to do Glory Kills for that

I also dislike this sort of rubber banding, HL2 is scourge of FPS.

I guess it comes down to this: I don't really care about not being in control for under a second. If it adds tactical depth and addresses what was arguably a problem in the oldschool FPSes (retreating for medkits which does genuinely break the flow of combat) then I'm all for it.

I don't really remember retreating for medkits in the original doom. I do remember remembering where some were so I can path past them on my way through a room a second time, and planning my dodge route in boss rooms to go through them, but I don't think I ever exited a fight to grab medkits and then returned. It is a theoretical possibility, but tbh if you have to do that often I don't think there will be enough medkits in the game anyway.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I didn't need to retreat often in the original Dooms either (you're probably a shit player if you're constantly doing it), but sometimes there is that moment when everything goes to shit and you need to do it. Glory kills are an assurance that it won't happen, combat will go uninterrupted. It's a minor issue in the original Doom games if you're good at them but it's a reason that can be used to justify why the glory kills exist. I personally don't really mind the animations (having control taken away from me for a second or under when I choose to do a GK).

There was no such problem with oldschool FPSes. If there never is any backtracking in this game it shows just how shit the level design is, because you are not actually interacting with the level, it's just scenery you are watching while moving along on a fixed rail.

Missing the point. The issue people are discussing here has nothing to do with the level design, it's the glory kills and whether or not they disrupt the flow of combat.

 

[Martius]

I dont mind glory kills after playing through reboot since it reminds me of contextual melee attack from Resident Evil 4/5/6.

Its not same thing because some in Resident Evil can affect more than enemy which helps with ammo even more. Maybe that would work also in new Doom, I am not sure if even mancubus exploding glory kill can hurt other enemies.

 

[Lyric Suite]

No, i'm not missing any point. You are turning the argument that QTEs brake "the flow of the combat" into a meme and creating a fallacious claim over a misunderstanding of this criticism. There's no issue with the combat stopping for any reason. That's not braking the flow of the combat, it's just stopping the combat altogether to do other things. QTEs are annoying as fuck because they ruin the combat while you are engaging in it, and the "strategic" value of this shit is something you pulled out of your ass. There is no gameplay justification for this garbage at all, the designers saw brutal doom once and thought shoving this shit into the game was totally rad and knewl instead of being try hard retarded.

 

[Jezal_k23]

I just don't agree that glory kills break the flow of combat. I was skeptical about them too when I first saw footage of the game, but having played it, I really don't care anymore.

If the footage I posted doesn't convince you that the game has a rhythm of its own (different from the original Doom, but a valid effort nonetheless), then I'm never gonna convince you.

 

[Dayyālu]

Again, nuDoom isn't Doom. It's Brutal Doom with a coat of paint. As much as Lyric Suite and his basement can argue, Brutal Doom had to get some kind of half-assed """balance""" to function: the enemies (particularly the hitscan ones) were made so much lethal, and glory kills became both a way to regain health and a reprieve with several frames of invincibility. NuDoom steals the first, avoiding the deluge of hitscan enemies typical of BD's derivatives.

And again, it's made to avoid hand placement of medkits and ammo mostly because devs are lazy and it's far easier to place three zombies pinatas and let the player decide if they need ammo&health for the fight (thus Glory Kills) or if they simply want to blow them up with a rocket launcher, opposed to hand placing medkits&ammo. Hand placing would add depth, but NuDoom's designers are already doing an ok job and I can't seriously expect a AAA game to have the same level design as modders with decades of experience.

Animations give you the much-needed eye candy to get the attention of kids, give the "cool factor" and gore that was needed (hey, it's not like older games avoided that, like Fallout or Crusader). It's a scourge of modern shooters, but at least here they serve a purpose instead of being useless animations. You and I can dislike it, but they have a reason to exist both for gameplay and marketing purposes. And I don't dislike them all, I'll admit the Pain Elemental booming while screaming gave me a chuckle. Stupid fun.

A game that worked similarly was Space Marine. Instead of Regen Health, they gave you shielding and extra health for enemy executions. Execution for health is the polar opposite of cover-based shooters, in one you are rewarded for engaging quickly and prioritizing targets, in the other you are rewarded for hiding behind a wall. Between the two "contemporary" styles there's no doubt what's the best one for gameplay and design purposes.

Or you can have the worst of both worlds: cargo cult design with no reason, braindead enemies, shit design and annoying cutscenes: play NuWolf!

No. But it obviously tries to copy Serious Sam's gameplay. The only halfway acceptable way to play a repetitive and bland game, is in coop.

Very differend games. SS had hundreds of enemies: SS is more akin to Doom slaughtermaps at times. You can't do that in NuDoom.

I also dislike this sort of rubber banding, HL2 is scourge of FPS.

Ahh, the HL2 was bad meme. Been some months since I saw that one.

 

[RoSoDude]

I also dislike this sort of rubber banding, HL2 is scourge of FPS.

Ahh, the HL2 was bad meme. Been some months since I saw that one.

I just played it for the first time a month ago, and I was not impressed. HL2 was absolutely decline. Not a bad game or anything, but there's a lot of regression from the first game and its expansions, particularly in weapon variety, enemy types and behaviors, and level design. Most encounters are with hitscan enemies who shoot the player while strafing, encouraging a very boring style of play in combat (compare to the marines in HL1 which run or shoot and liberally use grenades, pushing the player to stay on the move to avoid getting cornered). The resource economy hurts this further, with dynamic replenishing of ammo for your basic weapons (SMG/Pulse Rifle/Shotgun) as well as health and armor, assuring that there's never any real tension going into encounters nor any reason to vary your combat strategies (the "rubber banding" Jaedar mentioned).

The game clearly isn't confident with this combat system either, as it is far more focused on its scripted sequences and light puzzle elements, which rarely require more than a half second of reasoning to work out. I breezed through the levels without really taking in their layout, a sharp contrast to HL1 or its predecessors in Doom/Quake. The only real challenge comes in the form of occasional swarms of the same banal hitscanning Combine soldiers, and I could tell my brain was half off while playing the game. Most of the variety comes from one-off mechanics like vehicles, physics gimmicks, human/antlion squads, or boring wave combat. Admittedly these are where most of the fun can be had (the floor is lava bit with the antlions wasn't bad), but compared to the thrill of classic FPS with expanding arsenals, mazelike level design, and increasingly hard encounter design or compared with something more cerebral and systems-driven like Deus Ex, I was not impressed. Highly, highly overrated game that is technically impressive but only okay in design.