DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

[karoliner]

 

[sullynathan]

A possible explanation is that they had more nades planned.
But I bet some UX fucktard went like "can't have both binds on similar buttons on controllers which means they can't do similar actions".

I'm guessing a controller is exactly why. Swap grenades button is probably one of d-pad buttons, which are conventionally used for switching things. Even on Nightmare I still wasn't using frag grenades because of this. Not that I ever felt I needed them, there's already enough shit to juggle.

That sounds dumb though. games like COD have had smoke and frag grenades on separate controller buttons for ages, and unlike DOOM also have aiming down sight.

 

[Durandal]

A possible explanation is that they had more nades planned.
But I bet some UX fucktard went like "can't have both binds on similar buttons on controllers which means they can't do similar actions".

I'm guessing a controller is exactly why. Swap grenades button is probably one of d-pad buttons, which are conventionally used for switching things. Even on Nightmare I still wasn't using frag grenades because of this. Not that I ever felt I needed them, there's already enough shit to juggle.

That sounds dumb though. games like COD have had smoke and frag grenades on separate controller buttons for ages, and unlike DOOM also have aiming down sight.

If you could use both grenade types at any point, then they would have to add in an additional UI element for the other grenade type.

IMO I think it would have been better if both grenade types shared the same resource (give you a reason not to cheese with the Ice Bomb), though the UI itself would have been much better if most of the equipment counters were moved around the center of the screen rather than your periphery.

 

[DalekFlay]

Could also just make grenades a weapon like in most shooters, and give a balanced but limited supply, but oh god we can't have that. Need to in-oh-vate with cooldown 'nades.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

But you have double jump.

 

[OctavianRomulus]

I think in the next game they should do some serious pruning instead of adding more stuff. For example, while I kinda like the wall climbing mechanic, it doesn't really add that much to the game and has a profound effect on the level design, which I am not sure I like. Wall climbing gives the illusion that the level is more complicated than it actually is when in fact it is the opposite. The monkey bars and the climbable textures make it too obvious where you are supposed to go. It's basically just another straight line. You can also tell the developers were not really confident in this feature due to the fact that you don't die when you fall, as if they were not really confident in the design.

The second thing they need to reconsider is how they tell the story. While I think the plot itself is really Doom, I don't necessarily like the way it's told. Too many codices, too many gameplay-interrupting cutscenes and too much dialogue. I know they like Dark Souls and Bloodborne and they should really take a look at how these games tell a story because they have a lot in common with Doom and Quake. Like Doom and Quake, Dark Souls tells its story primarily through powerful imagery rather than directly telling the player what is going on. The player has to piece things together and his curiosity and observation skills are rewarded, just like how the player has to figure out the level itself, revealing more and more layers the more you invest. This is also why secret hunting and interconnected level design is part of the story of Doom. Secret hunting is the story of the level itself and makes the level feel more real, it is part of the imagery of Doom. Instead of making us read codices, why not have more of those murals where the Angel gives Argent Energy to the Sentinels? I liked the idea of the trapped souls of Hell being the source of Argent Energy but I think it would have been a lot more interesting and rewarding if there were lots of visual clues for this instead of outright telling me. This also has the added effect of not interrupting the gameplay through cutscenes.

 

[Riddler]

I feel like grabbing on to walls is decline. Wall-jumping is fine but grabbing on to walls interrupts movement and is antithetical to the design of the game.

 

[sullynathan]

I'm almost a god at this game.



But these last two boss fights are a pain in the ass. I died to the Khan Maykr once before beating it, but this shit always makes me keep on moving, while the fucking Icon is so tedious with the huge health bar and hundreds of demons constantly spawning, but wait, there's a round 2 where you have to do it all again, fuck me.



At least, I progressed with easily beating Marauders. The very first fight was not hard, but when they became regular enemies, they tip the scale in their direction.

 

[DalekFlay]

The last boss is definitely irritating, no matter the difficulty I'd bet.

 

[abija]

Such great game design, use random weapon, spray around, refill when needed.... A W E S O M E

 

[JDR13]

Doom 1 & 2 (especially 2) have a lot more to them to break up the routine. Monsters require different strategies, e.g. dodging Mancubi vs. Revenants. There are also hitscan enemies to take into account By comparison dodging everything in DoomE is basically identical: dash around like a rabbit on crack. This is a consequence of DoomE's mobility being overpowered. Map design and layout is much more important. DoomE essentially requires areas that you can loop around. As long as you can loop around basically every area plays the same. Again this is a consequence of DoomE having overpowered movement. In Doom1&2 area design requires a lot more thought and respect for from the player otherwise they'll end up cornered or in a situation where dodging is significantly harder. Health and ammo management become trivial since you can generate it yourself in DoomE. There's essentially never a time where you need to switch to a sub par weapon. In Doom 1&2 there is again strategy in how ammo is utilized in exchange for keeping the player more alive.

Bottom line, Doom WADs still to this day can surprise me or throw me situations that take actual real mental deliberation in how to approach rooms. DoomE has no variation and will never be able to have any until the insane mobility and goodie-farming abilities are pared back. Level 1 and the first half or so of level 2 in DoomE are what take the most concentration and thought to beat, precisely because they are before the full extent of those abilities are available to the player.

Anyone trying to rationalize that Doom 1 & 2 somehow have more complex combat than the modern games is truly autistic.

 

[abija]

You have to be a fucking monkey to read that quoted text and answer like you did.

 

[Average Manatee]

The last boss is definitely irritating, no matter the difficulty I'd bet.

It honestly wasn't that bad. I feared him on ultra-nightmare but ended up having basically no problem. The main thing is that he's so aggressive that he'll keep the body count of the other monsters low since he damages them too. Its also only the first fight that can really get difficult since you are cramped in to a small room, but if you can hit most of the BFG shots he's already down to about half health. From there do the sniper rifle->ballista->and back switch to do what I think is the most damage. As usual stay dashing/in the air constantly with the shotgun if low on armor and pay most attention to the Icon itself and its attacks, if you get in trouble with a normal enemy just use the blade.

I'm almost a god at this game.

Not being on super shotgun while at <100 armor triggers me.

 

[Sore Loser]

.

 

[JDR13]

Anyone trying to rationalize that Doom 1 & 2 somehow have more complex combat than the modern games is truly autistic.

What's the point of complexity if all the arenas turn out to be basically the same? I've finished only 4 levels of eternal so far, but beat doom4 just 1 day ago and I already don't remember most of the fights. While geometrically all arenas are technically different they all play almost the same and there are barely any surprises in enemy spawns, it is almost always like 2-3 big monsters + half a dozen of smaller ones, very rarely they deviate from that formula (like the plain room with a few columns where only pinkies and imps spawned). From doometernal so far I only remember the first slayer gate with small fast enemies and a couple of dread knights.

The point is you still have to do more than just stand there and shoot (with the occasional strafe to the side) which is all you had to do in the old games.


*Edit* Here come the butthurt grognards as expected.

 

[Biscotti]

The beauty lies exactly in its simplicity, it's the very essence of FPS. Just you, your arsenal of guns and your ability to outmaneuver the fucked up hell demons surrounding you. There's a lot of nuance involved in positioning and fighting certain demons, the Plutonia Experiment (despite its flaws) showcased brilliantly just how frantic the Doom dance could get without sacrificing its fluidity.
Just because demons in classic Doom don't force you to dispose of them in a very specific way and/or hijack the fight does not mean they're all fought the exact same way.

 

[OctavianRomulus]

Anyone trying to rationalize that Doom 1 & 2 somehow have more complex combat than the modern games is truly autistic.

What's the point of complexity if all the arenas turn out to be basically the same? I've finished only 4 levels of eternal so far, but beat doom4 just 1 day ago and I already don't remember most of the fights. While geometrically all arenas are technically different they all play almost the same and there are barely any surprises in enemy spawns, it is almost always like 2-3 big monsters + half a dozen of smaller ones, very rarely they deviate from that formula (like the plain room with a few columns where only pinkies and imps spawned). From doometernal so far I only remember the first slayer gate with small fast enemies and a couple of dread knights.

That's fair criticism. I was hoping for more arena variety. The arena with Kalybas was a good example. Why didn't they do more of that?

 

[502]

A possible explanation is that they had more nades planned.
But I bet some UX fucktard went like "can't have both binds on similar buttons on controllers which means they can't do similar actions".

More grenade types that got cut or saved for DLC makes sense.

My guess is, the flame belch also used to be a shoulder item in the category of frags and ice nades, i.e. you had to swap to it to use it, but during development they separated it to an instant ability because id and Beth's spastic testers complained about being too squishy.

 

[Multidirectional]

Did the Arc Complex Master Level. Maybe I'm wrong and it's me toughening up from last few levels on Nighmare mode but it didn't even really seem harder than regular version, except for couple parts where I noticed some more high tier enemies. The arena with Berserk powerup actually seemed easier, I died on that part on both regular runs few times even with the powerup, but now I didn't even pick it up until the area was already clear, after which I took it and proceeded to rape enemies in next area with it. There's Marrauder fight before you normally meet him the first time, but he's just among low level enemies so all I had to do there was keep frowing sticky bombs at ground near his feet with occasional chainsaw for ammo. And the end Marrauder fight isn't changed at all, so same thing.

 

[Israfael]

Finished the game on nightmare, gameplay wise it was, I'd say, decent (died a lot on the first three hunters, spent many tries doing the purple challenge stuff, that was actually interesting and mostly enjoyable), lack of everything else is, of course, very meh. I'm pretty sure you can build a decent game by using the core systems, but it appears they ditched everything else on purpose. Another positive, every weapon seem to be balanced, I even used auto-shotgun to quickly shoot the armor off the Icon, never actually thought it would be useful. Also, people are actually overstating the need to constantly chainsawing enemies to replenish ammo, I rarely had to use it for that, I mainly saved chainsaw to deal with the dangerous enemies (and by that I mostly mean hitscan-likes mobs like Arachnotron or Mancubus as well as those burning blade knights) or getting a momentary invuln to avoid something dangerous.

It's very suspicious that they did not release proper multiplayer mode, it's a huge opportunity wasted (although in that kind of clusterfuck it'd be hard to figure out what to do and what actually killed ya). Also, I can't fathom why people complain about Maykr drones or the boss itself - it was the easiest of all of them (I actually one shotted her as compared to 5+ attempts on everything else), and those bots make any fight easier as they are hp/ammo pinjatas (you don't even need to execute em, just shoot in the head with the railgun and it's full hp + full ammo + twin fist charge)

 

[DalekFlay]

Also, people are actually overstating the need to constantly chainsawing enemies to replenish ammo, I rarely had to use it for that

I don't believe you.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Did anyone else find all the Maykr stuff underwhelming? Their aesthetic is cool and all but it felt wasted when all that came of it was one plunky new enemy and a floor-is-lava boss fight.

And these guys, painstakingly designed and animated ostensibly as part of a Doom game, but with no bearing on gameplay whatsoever.

 

[agentorange]

plastic mcdonalds toy aesthetic

 

[OctavianRomulus]

Maybe in the next game they could have respawning pickups like in Quake 3 instead of having to rely on just on the Chainsaw. I like the Chainsaw mechanic but once you get used to it, it becomes too obvious what you are supposed to do. This way you would actually have to learn the map design of the arenas instead of just pinballing to the next zombie.

plastic mcdonalds toy aesthetic

Depending on how you look at it this could be both an insult and praise. They said they wanted to make this game the junk food of games.

 

[abija]

I don't believe you.

I got to 2nd hell part without using it (or frag) and I'm pretty sure I could get to last boss on nightmare if I'd have the patience to learn the fights better.

Not to mention there's so much chainsaw ammo in the game there was never a need to use the refill mechanic. Which is probably the way the game was first balanced.