DOOM Eternal - the sequel to the 2016 reboot - now with The Ancient Gods DLC

[Sreggin Etah I]

Brutal Wolfenstein 3D looks cool though:

 

[Jenkem]

this is the Curling of FPS games.

 

[DemonKing]

Finally finished the single player last night (PC).

The graphics are quite well optimised and it's great that ID worked out a way to have more than 4 creatures on screen at once which has been a limitation of their engines since Doom 3. The combat is kind of fun but I'm not very keen on the over-reliance on glory kills, chainsaws and closed arenas. For most of the tough battles I was just circle-strafing around arenas popping off shots, spamming grenades and desperately looking for one of the minor demons that seem to exist solely for you to chainsaw through to replenish your health/ammo.

Sadly I spent more time repeating difficult platforming sections than repeating difficult combats for most of the game. Not sure why anyone though these were a good idea. I guess the platforming is there to support the hidden secrets that proliferate the game but that could have been done without all the unavoidable jumping puzzles.

The sound track is great and metal as hell – perfect music for killing hordes of demons with. The graphics are also very atmospheric with some great standout locations like the soul manufactory in Hell. Final boss battle was more a test of endurance than a test of skill (the second last boss battle was much more difficult).

Overall I'd give a slight edge to Doom 2016. Doom Eternal is epic and bombastic but I preferred the atmosphere and gunplay of the 2016 version. Even the credits are better in Doom 2016 which featured awesome animated graphics whereas in DE you get nothing but screenshots of the various hobgoblins employed by ID.

 

[JDR13]

The graphics are quite well optimised and it's great that ID worked out a way to have more than 4 creatures on screen at once which has been a limitation of their engines since Doom 3.

Eh? That hasn't been an issue since id Tech 4.

 

[DemonKing]

Eh? That hasn't been an issue since id Tech 4.

In Doom 2016 there are still only a few creatures on screen simultaneously - new ones just port in as old ones are killed. Still happens to some extent in DE but they can fit a lot more on screen at once.

Still a long way from the good old days of the original Doom where you could have tons of critters charging simultaneously at you.

 

[sullynathan]

2016 had around 12 -15 enemies on the screen at once.

 

[JDR13]

In Doom 2016 there are still only a few creatures on screen simultaneously - new ones just port in as old ones are killed. Still happens to some extent in DE but they can fit a lot more on screen at once.

I'm pretty sure that's a design decision rather than an engine limitation. Look at the Wolfenstein games. There are plenty of instances with more than just a few enemies onscreen.

The only engine that was limited in that way was id Tech 4 (Doom 3), and even then I'm not sure if it was because of the engine or because id was concerned about the system requirements at the time.

Still a long way from the good old days of the original Doom where you could have tons of critters charging simultaneously at you.

Definitely, but the monsters in the newer games are also a lot faster and have better AI.

 

[DemonKing]

2016 had around 12 -15 enemies on the screen at once.

Not when I played - that's more like the number you'll have to fight to clear an arena than the number actually on screen at once.

Definitely, but the monsters in the newer games are also a lot faster and have better AI.

True but there was something fun about a long line of pinkies charging you down a narrow corridor while you had the chainsaw running...

 

[Lutte]

It's not a hard engine limitation but something to preserve the console version's performance and avoid massive framedrops there.

Dunno anything about super mario doom, but doom 2016's snapmap didn't even allow map creators to spawn more than 12 monsters at the same time. Hard limit. On. The. Map. Maker.

You see it would be terrible if someone created a map and it caused someone's xbox to burst into flames.

 

[karoliner]

Word at War was the worst, what are you smoking?

 

[sullynathan]

Not when I played - that's more like the number you'll have to fight to clear an arena than the number actually on screen at once.

No, I believe Durandal posted the video, but there's a YouTube video showing that amount of enemies on screen at once.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

The Doom pixies magicked a copy of Doom Eternal into my Steam account so I'm looking forward to finally giving it a try. Was originally planning on buying it for myself later on as a birthday present but my buddy beat me to it, since he's already put 114 hours into it he wanted to spread the Doom love.

And just to wish for it again, man I hope they bring back arcade mode. Automatically trimming cutscenes and trying to haul ass through every map fast enough on nightmare to get a top end score was a blast. Some levels being a cakewalk and others making you rethink your weapon mods/runes/route through the map so you could keep your speed and score multiplier up. I've heard noises that Eternal's significantly harder so I might start on UV instead, but we shall see.
Protip for anyone who hasn't played arcade mode in 2016 yet and realizes the announcer voice is obnoxious, you have to adjust his volume under multiplayer settings.

 

[Multidirectional]

I've heard noises that Eternal's significantly harder so I might start on UV instead, but we shall see.

Start on Nightmare, unlike 2016 this one lets you change difficulty mid game so you can lower it later if you want. I played through on UV and then ended up doing a fresh Nightmare run almost immediately after anyway because shit felt unfinished. It is significantly more challenging than 2016, no doubt, but that one was easy mode even on Nightmare for the most part.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Start on Nightmare, unlike 2016 this one lets you change difficulty mid game so you can lower it later if you want. I played through on UV and then ended up doing a fresh Nightmare run almost immediately after anyway because shit felt unfinished. It is significantly more challenging than 2016, no doubt, but that one was easy mode even on Nightmare for the most part.

Started on nightmare. Died a couple times so far getting partially through level 2, every death I can easily attribute to needing to git gud by whiffing shoving my balls in a caco's mouth and other mistakes. One death was from hurling myself off a cliff repeatedly since I was trying to get secrets before getting dash. Probably will end up loving this more than 2016, combat's feeling really fucking good.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Finished this. It sadly become kinda a slog in the last 1/3 of the game, mainly due to the introduction of the marauder. Man that was straight up awful and marauders just p much ruined every encounters it is a part of.

It was generally great, but the later encounters are already a big of a slog by themselves and they have to add probably one of the shittiest enemy in shooters ever, especially fast paced one like this.


I think overall 2016 is better, the story too. 2016 story was there, it have solid structures, and background approach to it and it worked imo. Eternal went back to traditional storytelling and it expect us to be involved with it while it's mostly banal shit and codex that is written like 15 years old metalhead.


The early game was fun and challenging, overall decent game, vastly overrated still 7/10

 

[Ash]

Just beat the game. Surprisingly good and better than that derivative Doom 2016 reboot (which was itself was ok, lets say 7//10).

Marauders are a great enemy in concept and in practice. People act like they're constantly on your ass late game when in reality they show up like 6 times total. It's a shame they limit combat options so much to truly provide some challenge. I'd have liked to see another challenging enemy type in similar fashion but that doesn't block most attacks.

It's good to see so much emphasis on platforming. With the realism focus of the early 2000s, what was standard convention in the late 90s faded away. Then came the popamole era of the late 2000s and not an action game let alone shooter in sight had platforming, or if it did it was brainless automated shit like batman and assassins creed. Lately platforming in action games has made a minor comeback and I want to see it continue.

The higher tier difficulty modes look good. I will return and try some time.

The level design is kinda good. The maps are huge. There's plenty environmental traps and interactions. The level design is better than D4 for sure, not a huge improvement, but certainly a noticeable improvement. Sometimes, you may even have to stop and think what to do next or how to reach that secret area. For reference, I'd say Doom4 level design was a 7/10 if being generous. This is an 8 or 8.5.

Best new big budget FPS in years. Shocking. For me it's been over a decade since I genuinely enjoyed a new FPS without too much disappointment.

there's plenty more to praise but I don't wanna spend too long writing and the hate must flow.

-Can unlock all upgrades two thirds in. This makes late game levels less exciting (why explore when you have it all?) for no good reason.
-A non-trivial number of upgrades are shit. All this is the same problems in the upgrade design that was present in Doom 4.
-Wouldn't it be better if there was a tertiary fire mode instead of having to switch weapon mods? I guess some combos would be OP (minigun with both mod modes active) but then just don't design it OP.
-The story is weird. The writing is weird. Doom guy character is weird. But it's Doom. It's not important and you can skip the majority of it. A good story would be nice sure but gameplay comes first, always.
-Level design could be a little more testing late game (in terms of platforming, complexity, combat arena design etc).
-I'm really not sure how I feel about the chainsaw/belcher/glory kill resource management. While the stuff in the environment is still relevant, health packs armor shards etc, these are your primary source of stock now. If you're close to death, it's pretty easy to use the win button combo of belch + glorykill or chainsaw. This is not good, but it does keep the combat flowing rather than resorting to classic scummy behaviour: peek sniping round corners, abusing AI, save scumming or whatever else. Lastly, it gets annoying spamming those awesome button instakill repetitive animations towards the end. It's supposed to be a shooter.
-The music is generic or average, it doesn't sound appealing like say Quake 2 metal. It sometimes even sounds annoying. just like D4. Such a shame. Even metal can't escape the universal law of modern decline.
-The tone is more arcadey and try hard than it needs to be. Not necessarily a bad thing but I felt like stating it. There is a middle ground in tone between the absolute seriousness of Doom3 and the tryhard fanservice of NuDoom. It's called Doom 1 and 2.
-The gore is not realistic enough. Here I definitely want realism. There isn't much blood at all and the gore is too pink and cartoony-looking. Probably conscious to avoid the wrath of the sensitive or to avoid limiting market appeal.
-Only ten levels? Yeah they're big but...also no mod support? No actual multiplayer? though the singleplayer may be good it's sad old standards won't be met. There always has to be decline. Decline is absolute.
-Sentinel suit and other such handholding shit

Doom 1/2 > Doom Eternal > Doom 64 >>>> Doom 4 > Doom 3. All games rank as at least playable.

Doom Eternal could perhaps be in the same league as classic doom if it weren't for compromised modern design (e.g there's still somewhat minor handholdeyness, the RPG systems are also standard modern sillyness), as well as lack of levels, mod support, and multiplayer.

This game isn't going to be Eternal in the same way Doom is without mod support. Ironic and silly choice of name.

 

[sullynathan]

I remember telling everyone this game was going to be great. Wow, sullynathan vindicated, so stop marking my post as butthurt Ash

 

[abija]

It's good to see so much emphasis on platforming. With the realism focus of the early 2000s, what was standard convention in the late 90s faded away. Then came the popamole era of the late 2000s and not an action game let alone shooter in sight had platforming, or if it did it was brainless automated shit like batman and assassins creed. Lately platforming in action games has made a minor comeback and I want to see it continue.

Then play some fucking platformers. What they did in this game is so out of place it's not even funny.

 

[orcinator]

It's good to see so much emphasis on platforming. With the realism focus of the early 2000s, what was standard convention in the late 90s faded away. Then came the popamole era of the late 2000s and not an action game let alone shooter in sight had platforming, or if it did it was brainless automated shit like batman and assassins creed. Lately platforming in action games has made a minor comeback and I want to see it continue.

Yeah but it's shit. The platforming is shit. It just reminds me of those 360 era God of War clones that plopped some platforms in between the fights and didn't put much thought into em besides making the grafix look decent.

 

[1eyedking]

Gave this game a spin. Stopped playing as soon as the artistic direction took a turn for the worse in the second map (generic overgrown ruins in a DOOM game? Seriously?).

Also the plot is absolutely retarded.

Mechanically speaking, FPS fights were OK. I remember the previous game suffering from too much of a reliance on the Rocket Launcher given monster quantity and behavior, and from what little I played I feel they haven't fixed this either on this iteration. Since ammo is ubiquitous due to the chainsaw mechanics, that means most encounters have only monsters and the environment as a variable, leaving weapon restraint completely out. They tried to counteract this by making demons have weaknesses against certain weapons, but all it ended up doing was making battles all the more repetitive and derivative.

Speaking of battles, you always see them coming and there's no sense of tension whatsoever, which was very present in the DOS games (ie., "as soon as I press that ominous switch those flashing doors are going to open").

 

[DalekFlay]

Doom 1/2 > Doom Eternal > Doom 64 >>>> Doom 4 > Doom 3. All games rank as at least playable.

I realllllllllly don't get separating nuDoom and Eternal this much. Like... they're pretty similar.

 

[Ash]

Doom 1/2 > Doom Eternal > Doom 64 >>>> Doom 4 > Doom 3. All games rank as at least playable.

I realllllllllly don't get separating nuDoom and Eternal this much. Like... they're pretty similar.

This is Doom 4 but actually good. More challenging, better level design, better mechanics (e.g dash), better platforming. There's a big difference between a "good for what it is" game and a genuinely good game. There's still some aspects that keep it from true classic status but I will be returning to the game at some point whereas I have no interest in ever touching Doom 4 again.

Yeah but it's shit. The platforming is shit. It just reminds me of those 360 era God of War clones that plopped some platforms in between the fights and didn't put much thought into em besides making the grafix look decent.

The platforming is also a thing in combat, silly. From your average arenas with plenty platforms and verticality, to those with barely any footing to stand cause there's lava everywhere.
And while the platforming in-between conbat doesn't quite meet its potential, it's not at all on the level of garbage of the 360 era. Think the toxic sewage area of the super gore nest where you need the rad suits. pretty enjoyable. I wouldn't say it's peak stuff but it's definitely not that 360-era garbage. That stuff made me furious with how dumb and boring it was.

It's an extremely simplistic combat loop. Dash every 0.75 seconds while jumping and grapple hooking around till you are at max armor/ammo. Pull out rocket launcher and lock on, fire 1-3 bursts depending on what you are fighting, repeat. Sometimes replace with precision rifle/ballista swap or chaingun turret depending on situation. Use freeze grenades to create openings or recover health. That's basically the whole game from the start of level 4.

Super shotgun was one of my least-used weapons which I think contributed to my enjoyment of the game, The grapple giving you free armor did seem terribly stupid. Though to be fair you are more likely to be hit when grappling I found. I also barely touched ice grenades.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Finished super gore nest last night. I'm still amazed that as much as I love Doom 2016, I'm actually enjoying Eternal more. The platforming parts I thought would annoy me have been a complete non-issue, and the guns and demons feel even better than in 2016. I just about came when I got the chaingun, holy shit. Glad Multidirectional recommended starting on nightmare again, too. It feels really good, you still die quickly but you might have a little more grace period with health/armor than in 2016, and I've died a few times but nothing bad at all. Speaking of grace periods, I'd almost guarantee there's something in the demon AI to give you a grace period after you finish a glory kill now. Doing glory kills in nightmare in 2016 was risky since a demon would often nail your ass as soon as you finished, but I was going glory kill-heavy in Eternal on nightmare because I wanted to see the new animations at least, but I don't think I've been hit even ONCE getting out of a glory kill now. I assume they changed that since 2016 sort of discouraged it on high difficulty (Except for the last few stragglers when it was safe) while in Eternal they want you juggling weapon selection/chainsaw/blood punch/grenade/freeze/flamethrower/glory kill all the time.

Just because it's mandatory though, the minor bitching. As much as I like the way the chainsaw's handled in Eternal, I wish it had a little more granularity. All demons are either 1 fuel or 3 fuel to saw, wouldn't mind some of the more mid-tier demons taking 2 instead of 3 (Like arachnotrons, maybe snakes, etc). I'm also not getting as much of a kick out of the story as 2016. 2016's text-dumps were slightly amusing because the first couple tiers tended to be generic boring "UAC demon research" and then the last one would have some silly UAC cult nonsense going on. Eternal's text dumps have been played entirely straight from what I've seen. I don't mind the external camera cutscenes because you can skip them and I'm not heartbroken on losing first person perspective briefly, but like I was concerned about doomguy feels like he's taking things marginally more seriously, bowing to dumbass ghost kings or whatever. Really minor complaint since it's story in a fucking Doom game and I'm only briefly paying attention to it my first time through, but what was a slight positive in 2016 (With the notable exception of the robot man office chat) is a slight negative in Eternal. And one final thing, if you pick the centered weapon position, the assault rifle with the scope can sometimes swing up over your crosshair. Another minor thing but I'd like centered weapons but that one gun irritated me so much I switched 'em back.

Game's really fucking good. Hoping whatever DLC they put out for it is actually fucking decent mission packs and they don't cheap out on it.

 

[Multidirectional]

Though to be fair you are more likely to be hit when grappling I found. I also barely touched ice grenades.

What difficulty you played on? I just don't see using frag over ice grenades on Nightmare. But maybe I'm wrong. And with the grappling hook if you use air slow-mo rune it's actually pretty easy to dodge projectiles. Repositioning with movement keys during grapple is very good, even without air control rune.

I just about came when I got the chaingun, holy shit.

Heh, I never found much use for it. I preferred to spend that ammo on Micro Missiles.

Speaking of grace periods, I'd almost guarantee there's something in the demon AI to give you a grace period after you finish a glory kill now. Doing glory kills in nightmare in 2016 was risky since a demon would often nail your ass as soon as you finished, but I was going glory kill-heavy in Eternal on nightmare because I wanted to see the new animations at least, but I don't think I've been hit even ONCE getting out of a glory kill now. I assume they changed that since 2016 sort of discouraged it on high difficulty (Except for the last few stragglers when it was safe) while in Eternal they want you juggling weapon selection/chainsaw/blood punch/grenade/freeze/flamethrower/glory kill all the time.

Pretty sure you just got lucky, I've died right after Glory Kill quite a few times on Nightmare.