Game News Dragon Age 2 Announced

[Darth Roxor]

I like what I have heard so far. DA:O was by design a game from the 90s, so I'm glad they finally bring DA2 into the 21th century. I also prefer the conversation wheel over the chore that was DA's dialog vending machine.

 

[Achilles]

I like what I have heard so far. DA:O was by design a game from the 90s, so I'm glad they finally bring DA2 into the 21th century. I also prefer the conversation wheel over the chore that was DA's dialog vending machine.

And as we all know, games form the 90s were complete shit compared to the masterpieces of modern gaming.

 

[Morgoth]

I like what I have heard so far. DA:O was by design a game from the 90s, so I'm glad they finally bring DA2 into the 21th century. I also prefer the conversation wheel over the chore that was DA's dialog vending machine.

And as we all know, games form the 90s were complete shit compared to the masterpieces of modern gaming.

No they weren't. But back then there was no alternative, nothing else to play.

 

[Shannow]

I like what I have heard so far. DA:O was by design a game from the 90s, so I'm glad they finally bring DA2 into the 21th century. I also prefer the conversation wheel over the chore that was DA's dialog vending machine.

And as we all know, games form the 90s were complete shit compared to the masterpieces of modern gaming.

No they weren't. But back then there was no alternative, nothing else to play.

Back in the 90s there were no alternatives, nothing else to play but games from the 90s (and 80s).

 

[darkpatriot]

Hivemind is so Hivemind sometimes. Way to skip over some important implications in what they have released so far.

Bioware is dropping the typical save the world/ defeat the big bad dude plot. Instead it is a personal story about the characters rise to power. Also they are using the decade long game span to show in game consequences (and thus C&C seems to be a major goal of the game). These are two facts they considered important enough to make major points in the press release and the limited information available on the page.

Confirmed here BTW: http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/ ... ge-ii.aspx

Instead everyone just bitches and moans. Bioware is actually addressing some of the criticisms you have had of them.

Concerning the combat overhaul it is looking like it is primarily targeted at the console version (Dragon age combat didn't work super great on the console). PC version will probably tweak combat but not change it much.

And concerning the dialogue wheel it is to be expected and not necessarily bad. Protagonist is now fully voiced. People don't want to read what they are going to say and then hear it voiced. That is one of the primary reasons they went to it for mass effect. It sounds like it will be improved from the mass effect version. There is no good/evil meter in DA so dialogue won't be split into paragon/renegade like it was is ME. From what it sounded like to me it said that each choice would also have a symbol paired with it indicating tone. This helps mitigate your character doing/saying something that you didn't intend for them when you selected it.

Also just like Obsidian, Bioware is trying to do new things with the dialog tree. It stayed basically the same for 15 years. I'm not that upset they are trying some new things with it. ME wheel was ok (not great) and it sounds like they are trying to evolve it some.

Anyway, in conclusion It looks like Bioware is trying some new things (for them at least). Including addressing some things that have been long time complaints of the Codex

Also developers used to be interested in the Codex, despite the general poo flinging, because they could get decent critical analysis of their games. Maybe you people should try and reconnect with that instead of hivemind circlejerk poo flinging.

 

[Warden]

HAHAHAHAHAHA
The fatso comic is great. I feel sorry for fatso though.

I already hate DA2, it brought back Warden here.

Why are you holding a grudge for so long... It will ruin your health even more.

The irony of this statement hits me like a sledgehammer from hell (+3).

Good. Now that you're dead you won't be trying so hard at getting pathetic kul-points.

 

[Jaesun]

I already hate DA2, it brought back Warden here.

 

[Morgoth]

I like what I have heard so far. DA:O was by design a game from the 90s, so I'm glad they finally bring DA2 into the 21th century. I also prefer the conversation wheel over the chore that was DA's dialog vending machine.

And as we all know, games form the 90s were complete shit compared to the masterpieces of modern gaming.

No they weren't. But back then there was no alternative, nothing else to play.

Back in the 90s there were no alternatives, nothing else to play but games from the 90s (and 80s).

Why designing a 90s style game for 2010? That's what the Codex wants, after all. Why?

 

[Darth Roxor]

I already hate DA2, it brought back Warden here.

 

[Warden]

I'll just comment the pathetic boy.

Jaesun, you're such a sad little person.

You'd do everything just to fit in. Even eat shit from the pavement.
Using the word fag (in a derogatory manner of course) even if you're a fag yourself. Writing idiotic one(whine)-liners even if your opinion is something else completely. Pretending you don't care even if you're squeeling like a little hysterical pig*. Thinking it's super cool to insult a fellow gay - just because.

Ugly brainwashed bastard desperately trying to be cool and fit in among a bunch of no-lifers like you.

This photo represents you best (that's the one you posted on the "gay wardens" social group on the bio forums - you actually joined a group that praises a game you 'hate' so much on rpgcodex, hypocrite); empty head with a pot on it:

*Like you'll pretend to not care after I break you in half with this post.

 

[Rhalle]

What's he talking about?

Gaider is a wretched creature who tries really hard not to look like the corporate whore he's become.

And the worst part is that he knows exactly what he is: 100% EA marketing's bitch, who pretends wholeheartedly to believe wholeheartedly the crap he now spews, with a just hint of disingenuous embarrassment for effect.

But I guess the paycheck is good, though. Probably covers all the rugs and cosplay equipment a man could want.

"Bioware is dead"

Yes. Yes, it is.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

God damn, the fags are coming out of the woodwork today. indeed.

 

[Antihero]

And concerning the dialogue wheel it is to be expected and not necessarily bad. Protagonist is now fully voiced. People don't want to read what they are going to say and then hear it voiced. That is one of the primary reasons they went to it for mass effect.

Sure, that's been brought up as a reason before, but to me the dialogue wheel is an even worse solution. Now instead of hearing voiced what I just read, I'll hear voiced and acted something unexpected from what I read - at least often enough. EDIT: That symbol is barely going to help either - how many people still complain about AP not doing what they expected and in a sense all you had were symbols in text form - nebulous sentence fragments on top of that aren't going to make all the difference.

It's not like people don't just skip voice overs once they've heard enough of the line anyway. I don't want to have to sit there and find out my "choice" after I thought I already made it, whether I have to listen to it or read it.

If they wanted to mix it up, they could always give you a set of full response lines, have the NPC respond, and then let your PC automatically continue naturally along the tone of the previous dialogue choice as a segue into the next set of responses. That is, conversation filler to make it a little smoother and interesting, but leave the important decisions up to the player.

 

[Silellak]

What's he talking about? The Codex is well-known for enjoying shitty games for what they are, and the reception of DA is the most shining example of the phenomenon there is.

Says the guy with the Alpha Protocol avatar.

 

[darkpatriot]

Sure, that's been brought up as a reason before, but to me the dialogue wheel is an even worse solution. Now instead of hearing voiced what I just read, I'll hear voiced and acted something unexpected from what I read - at least often enough.

Apparently in the magazine article it said that each choice also displays a symbol in the center to indicate the tone of the choice. They will still probably not react the way you expect them to sometimes but If they use the idea well it should reduce the number of times it happens.

And, for me at least, it wasn't very often in ME1 or 2 that they did something completely unexpected.

 

[Antihero]

Apparently in the magazine article it said that each choice also displays a symbol in the center to indicate the tone of the choice. They will still probably not react the way you expect them to sometimes but If they use the idea well it should reduce the number of times it happens.

Beat me before my edit about symbols, but I'm still not really convinced of that.

Taking an argument from elsewhere, "sarcasm" isn't going to necessarily tell you what kind it is: are you trying to purposely offend, is it just a friendly response, or a mild quip? At best the symbol might help you interpret the sentence fragment choice, but you're still guessing at what you'll actually say or do. The writing in a full response choice might not always properly indicate how an NPC will react either, but that comes down to the quality of writing, your expectations, the NPC's personality or intelligence, and the limitations of a medium where you can't clarify misunderstandings unless the writer made that part of the choice (except for your old friends, save and reload).

 

[darkpatriot]

Taking an argument from elsewhere, "sarcasm" isn't going to necessarily tell you what kind it is: are you trying to purposely offend, is it just a friendly response, or a mild quip? At best the symbol might help you interpret the sentence fragment choice, but you're still guessing at what you'll actually say or do. The writing in a full response choice might not always properly indicate how an NPC will respond either, but that comes down to the quality of writing, your expectations, the NPC's personality or intelligence, and the limitations of a medium where you can't clarify misunderstandings unless the writer made that part of the choices.

I don't think it will fix it 100%, but I think it could theoretically. If the descriptions truly describes the gist of what will be said (or done) in an unambiguous way. Tone would be able to help clarify.

Edit: forgot to mention. Tone wouldn't necessarily be as broad as sarcasm. It could be more descriptive like offensive, or humorous.

It won't be 100% though due to the fact that people interpret things differently. The writer may think a line would mean something while someone else reads it another way. This even happens sometimes when the entire sentence is written out in the old school way.

How it turns out though we will have to see.

I'm curious how often you felt your character surprised you in Mass Effect 1 & 2? Like I said I rarely felt surprised, but then again I always save before any conversation I feel will be even mildly important and try out the different options. I might not have encountered it that often due to this.

 

[KalosKagathos]

Says the guy with the Alpha Protocol avatar.

Closest thing to a Raidou avatar I'm going to get on these forums. Still, touche, good sir.

 

[Antihero]

Edit: forgot to mention. Tone wouldn't necessarily be as broad as sarcasm. It could be more descriptive like offensive, or humorous.

The thing I'd have against that is the higher expectations it sets up for the NPC to respond accordingly. To me, it isn't bad to have to weigh your choices. Not that something meant humorously can't be received with offence, but I see less chance of that happening unless the sentence fragment made it very clear you'd be saying something that would be misconstrued, taken badly, or the writers just thought it'd be a clever twist.

I'm curious how often you felt your character surprised you in Mass Effect 1 & 2? Like I said I rarely felt surprised, but then again I always save before any conversation I feel will be even mildly important and try out the different options. I might not have encountered it that often due to this.

I don't recall exact lines right now, but more often disappointed than outright surprised. Not having high expectations upfront helped soften that a little. In general, if you only get to choose a short line which is then stretched into something much larger, it's going to happen that your PC will say or do things you didn't really have in mind.

 

[darkpatriot]

The thing I'd have against that is the higher expectations it sets up for the NPC to respond accordingly. To me, it isn't bad to have to weigh your choices. Not that something meant humorously can't be received with offence, but I see less chance of that happening unless the sentence fragment made it very clear you'd be saying something that would be misconstrued, taken badly, or the writers just thought it'd be a clever twist.

They could avoid that by establishing early(like the first area) that what you say is just what your character is attempting and not how the NPC will react. You do have a point though that it will ultimately put restraints on the writing. They won't be able to put character responses in that can't be distilled down to a fragment for one. However there were already restraints within the old tree system and game dialog in general. Writers will be able to overcome them as they have an the past. By restructuring the conversation some you should still be able to express all the themes and concepts you would want to.

Also this opens up a new a gameplay mehanic which I believe they are using a bit in Fallout:NV. You could have the same little blurb and then a tone (let's say humurous for example) and then based off your character statistics and skills it could determine how successful you are. If your character is "funny" enough he could phrase it in a clever and entertaining way and if he wasn't "funny" enough he could flub the joke (or possibly offend).

I doubt this will be the case in DA2 however.

I don't recall exact lines right now, but more often disappointed than outright surprised. Not having high expectations upfront helped soften that a little. In general, if you only get to choose a short line which is then stretched into something much larger, it's going to happen that your PC will say or do things you didn't really have in mind.

It's true this is more likely in this system and it's a valid reason to prefer the old ways. Ultimately I think the wheel can work well (It did for ME1 and 2 IMO) and I think DA2's wheel will be a more successful iteration than ME's.

 

[circ]

Hivemind is so Hivemind sometimes. Way to skip over some important implications in what they have released so far.

Bioware is dropping the typical save the world/ defeat the big bad dude plot. Instead it is a personal story about the characters rise to power. Also they are using the decade long game span to show in game consequences (and thus C&C seems to be a major goal of the game). These are two facts they considered important enough to make major points in the press release and the limited information available on the page.

Bullshit. Their own design document says how they have to have the exact same plot, with a similar plot twist in the end, every time. And will you look at that, they have. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, if only their writers didn't suck so bad. Among other things.

 

[Der_Unbekannte]

I must say, that I already love DA2. So much hate, so much fanboyism. Great stuff to read.

 

[Some Moron On Welfare]

Oh man, dialogue wheel, what the fuck, oh man. It really is "Mass Effect with Swords".

Also, Morgoth is either a shitty troll or a huge dumbfuck:

Well, DA:O was by design a 2004ish game. So with DA2, Bio can redesign it from ground up and do something new. This is a good thing. I hope they scrap the outdated realtime-with-pause combat and replace it with something akin to Demon's Souls.

 

[darkpatriot]

Bullshit. Their own design document says how they have to have the exact same plot, with a similar plot twist in the end, every time. And will you look at that, they have. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, if only their writers didn't suck so bad. Among other things.

From the Link I posted

5. Hawke drives the story.
Dragon Age II is not about killing an ancient evil or about quelling another blight; Hawke is the driving force behind the narrative. Over the course of the game's 10-year timeline, players' actions and choices will determine Hawke's history, relationships, and regrets...all in service to answering the larger question: Who is the Champion of Kirkwall?

Seems pretty clear to me.

Also supposedly from the magazine

“Dragon Age II has a framed narrative structure, which means that
the exploits of Hawke occured in the past, but are being retold in the
present.” “Narrators with unique insights into the events in question
tell the tale of his past adventures.” Print magazine

I don't think they've done that before either could be interesting.

Of course the real question is how different will the companion characters be from established Bioware character archetypes.

Bioware is aware of the criticism that all bioware stories are the same (It's been going around the internet and game magazines a bit since DA and the MEs got released). It looks like they are deliberately trying to address it. We will have to see.

 

[Silellak]

Well, DA:O was by design a 2004ish game. So with DA2, Bio can redesign it from ground up and do something new. This is a good thing. I hope they scrap the outdated realtime-with-pause combat and replace it with something akin to Demon's Souls.