Dragon Age....I hate to admit it, but derp roads killed it..

[Silellak]

@ Silellak - you can actually end the landsmeet without combat - you need the vote to be unanimous in your favour though, that means lots of ass kissing or threatening of the nobles before hand though.

Really? Does that even skip the 1 on 1 duel with Loghain?

Nope. That duel's unavoidable. C&C!

Considering the actual amount of C&C in the game, particularly in the Landsmeet itself, I think one forced duel - while admittedly annoying - is a minor quibble at best.

 

[Mangoose]

It seems to me one of the big complaints about combat is balance. Potions too easy to use and too cheap to make... A few game-breaking spells.

So what happens if these things are tweaked via patch? I don't know how willing Bioware is to balance the game, but they sure have a long track record of patching NWN.

 

[Volourn]

"It seems to me one of the big complaints about combat is balance. Potions too easy to use and too cheap to make... A few game-breaking spells."

Sounds like BG2 (except you didn't make potions). Then again, I mostly didn't need potions and hoarded them big time, because I could go through entire battles and not be hit at all. I have NEVER fought a DA battle where I didn't take damage. And, if I wans't careful, even the simplest of fights could end up with my guys bleeding out. Not BG2 where I cna literally have my mage melee one on one and win. GL doing that with a DA mage outside the mage epilogue.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

So DA uses the retarded "Let's focus on HP" system huh?

Then again with instant health regen after the combat I guess it would. r00fles!

Another reason to never play it.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

"It seems to me one of the big complaints about combat is balance. Potions too easy to use and too cheap to make... A few game-breaking spells."

Sounds like BG2 (except you didn't make potions). Then again, I mostly didn't need potions and hoarded them big time, because I could go through entire battles and not be hit at all. I have NEVER fought a DA battle where I didn't take damage. And, if I wans't careful, even the simplest of fights could end up with my guys bleeding out. Not BG2 where I cna literally have my mage melee one on one and win. GL doing that with a DA mage outside the mage epilogue.

Not much different than say NWN, where I played a sorc with 1 pally level, gave him the elven court bow and played as archer! Worked very well. The reason is that AC of enemies is low.

And still how many times in DA have you tried for several hours to win a fight (like with certain boss fights in BG2) until you finally invented a working approach? Maybe the average encounter difficulty is really higher in DA, however imo it lacks the highlights.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Revenants don't resist all spells. DA's spell combinations (an excellent feature, btw) like Blizzard+Tempest work very well.

But I didn't have Tempest. And I didn't have spell might. So no storm of the century for me.

Perhaps you didn't look into DA magic system long enough?

Or perhaps the game should let me alter my spell selection, enabling me to look deeper into the system.

Were these the only options? What if you didn't have Wynne?

don't know. I have a feeling that not having Wynne would have significantly increased the potion/injury kit usage.

The memorization system, with all its flaws, is certainly more interesting and tactical, and I agree with your thoughts on the mana-based systems.

Precisely, more options are better than less options. Most of my gripes with the spell system would be solved if I'd be able to check out all the spells instead of sticking to (suboptimal?) spell picks.

Here's one more thing: I don't like it how the game conceals everything that's going on under the hood, it desperately needs some kind of combat log imo (like in ToEE, where you see how all rolls are made, which modifiers factor in etc).

 

[Lonewolf]

...derp roads....wtf changed the thread title...I think I prefer it give that man a MEDAL

 

[RK47]

It seems to me one of the big complaints about combat is balance. Potions too easy to use and too cheap to make... A few game-breaking spells.

So what happens if these things are tweaked via patch? I don't know how willing Bioware is to balance the game, but they sure have a long track record of patching NWN.

I think it's a minor complaint for potion usage making combat too easy. The problem with this real time combat system is that things get too chaotic at real time with no text at the bottom of the screen telling you what happened.

So I ended up pausing after every spell cast / skill used to make sure things happen the way I want it. Then I realized I'm probably forcing the game into a half assed turn based mode. Cone of Cold. Stone Fist. Overpower. Smashed Smashed. Shock. Zap zap zap. Dead. Rinse repeat for every room encounter with added Imprisonment and Force Field on the yellow mobs.

It would've been better if the combat is turnbased imo. It made stats more important and ambushing fireball mage less cheesy. At real time, Mages are too imbalanced with instant cast.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

a proper RPG needs a combat log. period.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There is very little depth to the combat in DA as the majority of skills are underpowered, the stamina system is broken and magic is way overpowered. BG2 combat shits all over it in that respect.

Care to elaborate?

I agree that the magic is too powerful (not sure if it's a bad thing though), that the stamina system is broken (good idea, poor execution), but I don't see how it makes the combat system depth-less.

As for the force field, it's exactly the same as DnD's Otiluke's Resilient Sphere. How many people fought the dragon in IWD2 without casting the RS on a tank? It's a powerful spell, but you have to spent 2 points to get it. I picked different spells.

I think that the overall system is pretty good and has plenty of depth. The problem is that once you picked your spells, you're stuck with them and are forced to use the same strategies over and over again, while in DnD you can change spells and thus strategies whenever you wish.

 

[1eyedking]

There is very little depth to the combat in DA as the majority of skills are underpowered, the stamina system is broken and magic is way overpowered. BG2 combat shits all over it in that respect.

Care to elaborate?

I agree that the magic is too powerful (not sure if it's a bad thing though), that the stamina system is broken (good idea, poor execution), but I don't see how it makes the combat system depth-less.

As for the force field, it's exactly the same as DnD's Otiluke's Resilient Sphere. How many people fought the dragon in IWD2 without casting the RS on a tank? It's a powerful spell, but you have to spent 2 points to get it. I picked different spells.

I think that the overall system is pretty good and has plenty of depth. The problem is that once you picked your spells, you're stuck with them and are forced to use the same strategies over and over again, while in DnD you can change spells and thus strategies whenever you wish.

The thing is, VD, that Icewind Dale II actually has a lot of depth. Confer Jukka's Ultimate Powergaming Guide.

In DA all you need to do is spend the points to get the cookie-cutter abilities/spells and their stat requirements. It doesn't go beyond that. What's worse, two-weapon fighting is unreasonably unbalanced vs. shield and two-handed style, which means that two trees are utterly useless.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Revenants don't resist all spells. DA's spell combinations (an excellent feature, btw) like Blizzard+Tempest work very well.

But I didn't have Tempest. And I didn't have spell might. So no storm of the century for me.

I can't comment on your spell repertoire as I have no idea what you had. My point was that you're not forced to spam potions if you plan your spells properly.

Or perhaps the game should let me alter my spell selection, enabling me to look deeper into the system.

Well... it's an interesting topic. While I would have preferred a more flexible system (the Stonekeep's system combined mana and spell selection well), would you argue that Diablo 2 skill trees were poorly designed just because the game doesn't let you alter your skill/spell selection and forces you to stick with a single strategy?

I don't know. I have a feeling that not having Wynne would have significantly increased the potion/injury kit usage.

I don't have Wynne in my party and I've used no more than 20-25 potions so far. Haven't made a single potion. Playing on Hard.

Here's one more thing: I don't like it how the game conceals everything that's going on under the hood, it desperately needs some kind of combat log imo (like in ToEE, where you see how all rolls are made, which modifiers factor in etc).

That would be nice.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I can't comment on your spell repertoire as I have no idea what you had. My point was that you're not forced to spam potions if you plan your spells properly.

Well I guess I didn't plan properly then. Also I really didn't spam potions, I made quite an effort to keep potion usage to the possible minimum because I was saving up golds for some pieces of equipment. Couldn't afford all of them but 2-3 nice things I had eventually.
I had Wynne, Leliana, Alistair + Mage PC. Wynne had healing stuff + the fire line of spells. PC had the crushing prison line of spells and the ice spells. + some random spells like the lvl1 healing and lvl1 magic shield. At the end of the game (lvl23) I also had the manaclash line. Should have gone for that much earlier. Great way of removing mages at once. I had all 3 classes (Mage,Bloodmage,Arcane Warrior) maxed. That means 12 possible spell picks used up for prestige classes. Maybe there should be some other way to advance the prestige classes instead of having to waste your precious spell picks.

Well... it's an interesting topic. While I would have preferred a more flexible system (the Stonekeep's system combined mana and spell selection well), would you argue that Diablo 2 skill trees were poorly designed just because the game doesn't let you alter your skill/spell selection and forces you to stick with a single strategy?

I never played Diablo/Diablo 2. Or Sacred/Sacred 2. I prefer RPGs.
But by the sound of it I presume I wouldn't like it.

I don't have Wynne in my party and I've used no more than 20-25 potions so far. Haven't made a single potion. Playing on Hard.

Really? I hope you're not talking about the Xbox version. I'm sure I had to use more than this in the Mage tower alone. What is your party, and what spells do you use?

 

[JarlFrank]

...derp roads....wtf changed the thread title...I think I prefer it give that man a MEDAL

Thanks. I changed it. And I actually got a good idea for a DA mod. Might be that it never sees the light of day but I'll try getting into the mod tools together with a friend and we'll do a very Codexian mod where Ghey Wardens kill Dorkspawn in the Derp Roads

 

[Reject_666_6]

I just noticed "derp roads".

 

[RK47]

Arcane books are plenty for sale in game anyways. IIRC 22.5 G each is pretty good price to pay for. I had around 4-5 used on Morrigan on my 2nd playthrough.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Arcane books are plenty for sale in game anyways. IIRC 22.5 G each is pretty good price to pay for. I had around 4-5 used on Morrigan on my 2nd playthrough.

dunno, am lvl10 on 2nd playthrough and couldn't afford a single one of them so far.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The thing is, VD, that Icewind Dale II actually has a lot of depth.

It has. And?

What's worse, two-weapon fighting is unreasonably unbalanced vs. shield and two-handed style, which means that two trees are utterly useless.

Proof?

I've tried all 3 and I prefer my two-handed warrior. Also, Alistair, once he got Shield Mastery, has been moved to the preferred fighters list.

However, feel free to explain using the info in the links below why dual wielding is so superior to the other two skill trees.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Two-Handed_Talents
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_ ... ld_Talents
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dual_Weapon_Talents

...

I never played Diablo/Diablo 2. Or Sacred/Sacred 2. I prefer RPGs. But by the sound of it I presume I wouldn't like it.

I would strongly suggest giving Diablo 2 a try.

Really? I hope you're not talking about the Xbox version. I'm sure I had to use more than this in the Mage tower alone. What is your party, and what spells do you use?

I don't have an xbox.

The mage tower was easy for me. I used maybe 2 potions when Arcane Horror took me my surprise. As for my party:

PC - fighter, two-handed swords, usually use pommel strikes to knock bipeds down, two-handed sweep for crowd control (damage plus knockdown), powerful swings if I have enough stamina, and critical strike.

Shale:

Regenerating Burst - damages and possibly stuns nearby enemies. It will also shatter them if they are frozen. It increases stamina regeneration and threat generation as well. Works well with Morrigan's Cone of Cold, obviously. Pulverizing Blow, Killing Blow, and the Auras (the golem is unable to move/attack but it gives good bonuses to everyone: attack, critical strike, health, stamina, mana regen. It's a decent trade-off for temporary removing the best tank from battle.

Morrigan: I maxed her cold and lightning trees, and started playing with the entropy spells (Sleep and Walking Nightmare). Seems to work well.

Usually Alistair because he's very good with sword+shield (Shield Mastery greatly improves his fighting abilities) or Lelliana if I need ranged support/lockpicking.

 

[Balthamael]

Arcane books are plenty for sale in game anyways. IIRC 22.5 G each is pretty good price to pay for. I had around 4-5 used on Morrigan on my 2nd playthrough.

Do you remember locations? Because I can only think of three, and it would be nice to have more. I found the party camp one, obviously. Also the ones in the mage tower and in the magic shop in Denerim.

 

[Lesifoere]

There might have been one in Orzammar, but don't take my word for it.

 

[dragonfk]

What she said.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

There's one in each major location, IIRC, and one in the camp. Along with that, there's the skill books you can buy in some locations.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

the random encounter dwarf merchant might have another one

VD:
didn't use Shale so far, except in her quest location, she seems pretty overpowered, are you not concerned being unable to disarm traps/open locks, I can't stand that, hence I always have a rogue

 

[Vault Dweller]

Chests rarely contain anything good (another design flaw) and are a reward for having a rogue (instead of it being the other way around).

 

[Silellak]

Chests rarely contain anything good (another design flaw) and are a reward for having a rogue (instead of it being the other way around).

Well, I've found that it's worthwhile if only because the higher-tier armors you often find tend to sell for quite a bit.