Dragon Age impressions

[Lesifoere]

What sort of misinformation? How about "LOOK AT THIS ONE SUIT OF ARMOR. ALL DRAGON AGE ART DIRECTION SUCKS." for starters? How about all the gorgeous interiors that, when viewed from an isometric perspective, actually look pretty-damn-close to a 3D Infinity Engine? But no, you're right, one piece of DLC armor that looks stupid clearly means all art direction in DA sucks.

I'm sorry but putting pretty stuff on walls and tables doesn't get extra points in my book of art direction. Making a solid, creative dungeon such as Icewind Dale's Ice Museum, Dorn's Deep, and Severed Hand, complete with barracks, dormitories, temples, studies, libraries and training grounds instead of endless corridors of debris is something worth of compliment.

Not to mention the fucking ugly exteriors. If I remember right, even VD said those look dated and unpleasant. Isometric view? Playing DA in isometric invites only headaches, because then you can't see any of the characters/enemies, as they all turn into barely distinguishable bloomy blobs. The perspective should assist tactical combat, not hinder it. DA's best played with an over-the-shoulder view, but then you can't help but notice the low-res textures and the WoWified shoulderpads.

 

[1eyedking]

Absolutely, it's not like people make fun of Skyway or anything--oh wait. Honestly, I don't even think DA is a horrid stinking piece of excrement, but all the blathering about how its writing is really quite fine, its characters really are quite complex (re: Duncan) and so on is ridiculous.

I think the same thing. The game is average, mediocre; at most grab some popcorn, play it, and move on. I disagree with VD saying it's the best RPG since Arcanum because I'd rather say there haven't been good, solid RPGs since Arcanum.

Thus I have engaged myself in what seems to be a never-ending battle with what people here are saying about the combat being good, as well as the art direction, writing, level-scaling, story, plot, characters, etc.


I just don't get what the big deal is. It's just more bland BioWare tripe, why all the commotion?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Given your bleating "you children, what's wrong with the Joining?" across several threads or something along that line, sure.

Again, I asked to explain what's wrong with the Joining. Unfortunately, my request has puzzled many people, who replied with "what is this explain thing you speak if? didn't we tell you that it's shit? do you want us to like repeat it or what?"

Plus your "Oh? So what do you have to say about it other than that it's average?" You posted screenshots of dialogue lines that aren't particularly remarkable either way; what do you expect 1eyedking to do, subject it to two pages of literary criticism?

When someone says that [feature] is shit, I expect an explanation. What you suggest is a recipe for Skyway.

- [feature] is shit!
- please explain
- i said it's shit, what do you expect me to do, subject it to two pages of criticism? lol

It doesn't deserve more than a passing "it's average/mediocre/nothing special" comment.

If you say so.

 

[1eyedking]

Not to mention the fucking ugly exteriors. If I remember right, even VD said those look dated and unpleasant. Isometric view? Playing DA in isometric invites only headaches, because then you can't see any of the characters/enemies, as they all turn into barely distinguishable bloomy blobs. The perspective should assist tactical combat, not hinder it. DA's best played with an over-the-shoulder view, but then you can't help but notice the low-res textures and the WoWified shoulderpads.

The worst part of all is that BioWare made some interesting dungeons in its time. Irenicus' laboratory, the whole lot of the Underdark, Durlag's tower, the Asylum/Spellhold, Watcher's Keep and many others were fun to explore.

As for isometric view in DA, it's just plain wrong because you have to constantly turn the camera around since the front walls don't lower to let you see what's behind them since there's no dithering nor outlining whatsoever.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The worst part of all is that BioWare made some interesting dungeons in its time. Irenicus' laboratory, Durlag's tower, the Asylum/Spellhold, Watcher's Keep and many others were fun to explore.

lolwut

Anyway, got it today because of Codex being schizophrenic over it and the Origin stories are a nice touch. Thus far only the Dalish elf has been really disappointing.

 

[Lesifoere]

When someone says that [feature] is shit, I expect an explanation. What you suggest is a recipe for Skyway.

- [feature] is shit!
- please explain
- i said it's shit, what do you expect me to do, subject it to two pages of criticism? lol

Uh-huh. Actually, you posted those screenshots and said they were pretty good writing. So, VD dear, what is so amazing about the following lines?

"Apparently everyone seems to agree that a Blight is the perfect time to start killing each other. Marvelous, really."

"And how do you know they are right? Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort."

No, really, what? It's functional writing. These lines are not imbued with deeeeeeeep philosophy and great wit. You can find lines like these in any Forgotten Realms novel. They don't do surprising things with language, do not suggest the writer is capable of anything more than workmanlike prose and dialogue. Exactly what do you hope to prove by demanding people comment further than that they're simply average? Is this your idea of literary gold, worthy of in-depth discussion?

The worst part of all is that BioWare made some interesting dungeons in its time. Irenicus' laboratory, the whole lot of the Underdark, Durlag's tower, the Asylum/Spellhold, Watcher's Keep and many others were fun to explore.

Yeah. In another thread, people went "so what do you expect, colorful and chatty NPCs? The Deep Roads are like the Underdark, of course it's full of monsters and tunnels." Except BG2's Underdark was, you know... full of shit to explore. Like an illithid city (and gith NPCs), the petrified mage (leading to a side-quest), a svirfneblin village, and so on and so on.

 

[1eyedking]

When someone says that [feature] is shit, I expect an explanation. What you suggest is a recipe for Skyway.

- [feature] is shit!
- please explain
- i said it's shit, what do you expect me to do, subject it to two pages of criticism? lol

You know, I had actually explained this:

A piece of non-technical text without puns, without wordplay, without discourses, and without humor is bad writing. Gaider seems to equate wit with cheap one-liners and "big words", which he has a tendency to either explain outright or assume the player doesn't know them. Any half-assed writer can use contrived vocabulary or read a thesaurus, just as almost any idiot can use a calculator. True merit comes from the way words are employed, not from the knowledge of the words themselves.

And well then there was that whole irony deal.

lolwut

Irenicus's prison isn't bad. He had all those failed experiments he kept "alive" in glass jars, talking Golems who did his bidding, Duergar slaves who forged him items, an Otyugh near some...*gasp*...sewers (which meant the place had a sewage system for wastes), an eerie room full of traps and concubines, a pocket plane, on the second level a torture chamber, some cloning vats, a throne room, a forge, and finally a warehouse (IIRC). The place had personality. You don't see that kind of stuff in DA.

So other than the fact that it can become repetitive after many restarts, I believe it was a pretty good dungeon, yes.

 

[Silellak]

Alright, so, I went through and tried this item "upgrade" trick with 4 different magical items. Results were...mixed. See the screenshot spam below.

First test: Warden's Armor. Unique armor found in Warden's Keep DLC. Not a quest reward - found in a chest.

In inventory:

Sold to vendor:

After save/reload:

So, the item's base material did change after reloading. Disappointing. Note, however, that the magical attributes of the item did not change, just the "Armor" and "Fatigue" rating. This alone makes the item scaling different, and preferable, to Oblivion, where the item's magical attributes would be different depending on when you found or "got" the item from a quest.

Second test: Templar Armor. I can't remember if I got this as a quest reward or found it somewhere, honestly.

In inventory:

Sold to vendor:

After save/reload:

No change to base item type.

Third test: Asurian's Might - unique long sword. I don't recall it being a quest reward (though it may've been), and it's NOT one of the magical items listed in the Codex.

In inventory:

Sold to vendor:

After save/reload:

As the first test - base item type improved, magical attributes stayed the same.

Forth and final test: Asala, a unique sword for Sten found as a quest reward.

In inventory:

Sold to vendor:

After save/reload:

No change to base item time or magical attributes.

I did a few more tests on other unique quest rewards and/or items listed in the Codex - Liliana's Bow, Dragonbone armor, the Dragonslayer greatsword, Ancient Elven Armor - and there was no change. Many unique items are already made of the highest-tier material, and the rest (Ancient Elven Armor, Asala) don't change.

So yes, some magical items - even some unique ones - do scale. Yes, this is lame. Is this as lame as the item scaling in Oblivion? Still not even close. Oblivion didn't have items that were always best-quality no matter when you found them. Oblivion altered more than just the base item type - the magical attributes were different as well. Do I wish this sort of scaling wasn't in Dragon Age? Absolutely. Do I think it's game breaking? Again, not even close, but some could if that sort of thing really bothers them.

Do I think this sell/reload-or-leave-the-area/buy technique is intended? Doubtful, probably just a side effect of the way the item scaling works. It may or may not be patched out, but I won't be using it regardless.

Regarding DA's writing: I have no strong feelings about it either way. The only time writing in a game is noticeable to me is when it's good enough to make a game with average gameplay better (Torment) or when it's bad enough to take me out of the experience (Fallout 3) or when it's a sub-par translation (Witcher). There's been a few times the dialog impressed me, and a few face-palms, but for the most part it hasn't greatly contributed or taken away from the rest of the game.

I'm sorry but putting pretty stuff on walls and tables doesn't get extra points in my book of art direction. Making a solid, creative dungeon such as Icewind Dale's Ice Museum, Dorn's Deep, and Severed Hand, complete with barracks, dormitories, temples, studies, libraries and training grounds instead of endless corridors of debris is something worth of compliment.

You just described the Mage's Tower! Congratulations. Also, I don't mix my opinion of art direction with area design. All I can say is, DA is the first game I've played since the Infinity Engine games where the isometric perspective actually impresses me. It feels like a 3D Baldur's Gate 2 - I don't know how else to say it.

Not to mention the fucking ugly exteriors. If I remember right, even VD said those look dated and unpleasant. Isometric view? Playing DA in isometric invites only headaches, because then you can't see any of the characters/enemies, as they all turn into barely distinguishable bloomy blobs. The perspective should assist tactical combat, not hinder it. DA's best played with an over-the-shoulder view, but then you can't help but notice the low-res textures and the WoWified shoulderpads.

Wow, really? You play DA in OTS view, when given the choice of isometric? Ugh. I only go OTS when taking in a new area, or for very specific moments in combat. Otherwise it's isometric all the way. I will agree, though, that the graphics - interior or exterior - don't really hold up in OTS mode - which just contributes to my belief that isometric is the way it was intended to be played. Do I wish I could pan further and/or zoom-out more? Sure, but I still haven't had a problem playing the game in isometric mode 95% of the time.

This is not the case, in my opinion, with Dragon Age. What are your examples of "really good encounters" in DA?

Off the top of my head, the following encounters have been memorable:

- The battle with the High Dragon near Haven
- Fighting "my own party" in the Gauntlet
- The battle with the Dwarven crime lord
- The battle with the Revenant right before the Werewolf lair
- The battle with the Revenant at Redcliffe castle
- The battles with the groups of criminals in Denerim's back alleys - these fights in particular were very challenging, and required lots of micro-managing on my part. Quite rewarding once I got through them.
- Some of the random encounter battles are memorable, but this is admittedly because they often start you off in shitty positions vs. your opponents.
- Watching my party get torn apart when I tried to take on the Crows contact in Denerim.

Absolutely, it's not like people make fun of Skyway or anything--oh wait. Honestly, I don't even think DA is a horrid stinking piece of excrement, but all the blathering about how its writing is really quite fine, its characters really are quite complex (re: Duncan) and so on is ridiculous.

Skyway is a special case. He takes pleasure in viciously attacking games he's never played based on second-hand information and certain design decisions he thinks can "never work ever because they're shit shit shit". 1eyedking is at least putting forth decent arguments, and has played the game. However he's still attacking DA just as "rabidly" as VD is defending it, yet VD is the one getting the shit because he - God forbid - isn't criticizing something on the Codex.

I just don't get what the big deal is. It's just more bland BioWare tripe, why all the commotion?

Because different people have different opinions about things, and not everyone has the same opinion of the game you do?

 

[Lesifoere]

Wow, really? You play DA in OTS view, when given the choice of isometric? Ugh. I only go OTS when taking in a new area, or for very specific moments in combat. Otherwise it's isometric all the way. I will agree, though, that the graphics - interior or exterior - don't really hold up in OTS mode - which just contributes to my belief that isometric is the way it was intended to be played. Do I wish I could pan further and/or zoom-out more? Sure, but I still haven't had a problem playing the game in isometric mode 95% of the time.

Here's the problem: you can't zoom out anywhere near fucking enough and, once in isometric, I find the control counter-intuitive because the gameplay/UI is in many ways reminescent of MMORPGs but without the polish, which renders combat with large numbers of enemies something of a clusterfuck. Zoom out? I can no longer tell which target is doing what because hello brownish blobs and, hell, I don't even have a target frame to refer to (which NWN2 at least has). Being able to queue up commands while paused would have made this somewhat feasible, but as it is, I don't think this is a good implementation of isometric. Even NWN2 did it better, more or less.

A more flexible camera control that allows you to pan however you like, and zoom out much further or closer at will (where zooming in doesn't simply throw you back into OTS) would have helped a lot and should have been standard considering Bioware's previous offerings.

Off the top of my head, the following encounters have been memorable:

- The battle with the High Dragon near Haven
- Fighting "my own party" in the Gauntlet
- The battle with the Dwarven crime lord
- The battle with the Revenant right before the Werewolf lair
- The battle with the Revenant at Redcliffe castle

Apart from the High Dragon, I dealt with all these pretty much the same way. Freeze the revenant/crime lord with paralysis, glyph of paralysis, or cone of cold. Failing that, force field it. "My own party" wasn't even fun because it wasn't like the counterparts use their abilities intelligently.

After a while, all encounters become repetitive and a chore. You could say "well, don't use those spells, stupid!" but then, why should I cripple my mages' effectiveness to compensate for how tedious the combat is? In fact, the sooner the fight's over with, the better. Only the Broodmother fight was any special, but that's only because it reminds me of Yogg-Saron from WoW, albeit far more dumbed down and nowhere near as fun. Keep in mind, at first I thought the combat was entertaining and challenging. But it's just not very anymore once you get used to it. King's Bounty also had this effect on me, although KB took much, much longer to wear down my interest and become a matter of routine.

However he's still attacking DA just as "rabidly" as VD is defending it, yet VD is the one getting the shit because he - God forbid - isn't criticizing something on the Codex.

He... is? Who's giving him shit again, apart from me? Is someone bullying him and hurting his sensitive feelings? Any lynch mob forming, perhaps? Skyway's a far more frequent target of ridicule. If anything, a lot of posters respect VD's opinions, for whatever reason, even if those opinions tend to be smug and self-satisfied.

 

[Silellak]

Wow, really? You play DA in OTS view, when given the choice of isometric? Ugh. I only go OTS when taking in a new area, or for very specific moments in combat. Otherwise it's isometric all the way. I will agree, though, that the graphics - interior or exterior - don't really hold up in OTS mode - which just contributes to my belief that isometric is the way it was intended to be played. Do I wish I could pan further and/or zoom-out more? Sure, but I still haven't had a problem playing the game in isometric mode 95% of the time.

Here's the problem: you can't zoom out anywhere near fucking enough and, once in isometric, I find the control counter-intuitive because the gameplay/UI is in many ways reminescent of MMORPGs but without the polish, which renders combat with large numbers of enemies something of a clusterfuck. Zoom out? I can no longer tell which target is doing what because hello brownish blobs and, hell, I don't even have a target frame to refer to (which NWN2 at least has). Being able to queue up commands while paused would have made this somewhat feasible, but as it is, I don't think this is a good implementation of isometric. Even NWN2 did it better, more or less.

A more flexible camera control that allows you to pan however you like, and zoom out much further or closer at view (without zooming in suddenly throwing you back to OTS) would have helped a lot.

Control is counter-intuitive in isometric mode? How? I've played it pretty much exactly the way I played BG2. The only thing that caught me off-guard was the way you have to left-click to target abilities but right click to attack. That took me all of 5-10 minutes to adjust to.

I've never had much trouble determining what enemy is what - if the graphics get confusing, I just use TAB to view the enemy names. For selecting my own party, I often use the character portraits rather than left-click on click-dragging. It really hasn't been nearly the chore for me that it apparently has been for you, so maybe we just play games in different ways. I would certainly not say NWN2 did anything better in that regard.

I do agree, though, that an action queue would be very welcome.

Apart from the High Dragon, I dealt with all these pretty much the same way. Freeze the revenant/crime lord with paralysis, glyph of paralysis, or cone of cold. Failing that, force field it. After a while, all encounters become repetitive and a chore. You could say "well, don't use those spells, stupid!" but then, why should I cripple my mages' effectiveness to compensate for how tedious the combat is? In fact, the sooner the fight's over with, the better. Only the Broodmother fight was any special, but that's only because it reminds me of Yogg-Saron from WoW, albeit far more dumbed down and nowhere near as fun.

Keep in mind, at first I thought the combat was pretty fun and decently challenging. But it's just not very anymore, after a while. King's Bounty also had this effect on me, although KB took much, much longer to wear down my interest and become a matter of routine.

Perhaps your mages are just stronger than mine, or you're not playing on Hard, but locking down bosses hasn't been nearly that easy for me. Both the revenant and crime lord would resist my force field/paralysis/cold spells half the time, and even when they did land, the amount of time they were out of a fight was pretty trivial compared to how long weaker enemies are locked-down.

 

[Pablosdog]

I guess people keep forgetting that there are spells and abilities in mostl rpgs that you could rinse repeat and pretty much win the game with.

*Cough* Timestop *Cough*

 

[1eyedking]

Solid post, Sillelak. A bit of a clusterfuck, but such is the way of screenshots. I'll respond at night if I can, other duties call for now.

 

[Lesifoere]

Perhaps your mages are just stronger than mine, or you're not playing on Hard, but locking down bosses hasn't been nearly that easy for me. Both the revenant and crime lord would resist my force field/paralysis/cold spells half the time, and even when they did land, the amount of time they were out of a fight was pretty trivial compared to how long weaker enemies are locked-down.

Playing on normal, because I can't stand the combat dragging on anymore than it already does. My disabling spells have been resisted, but I'm pretty sure Force Field is unresistable given that it appears to be treated as a beneficial spell, like buffs, only for some reason you can target enemies with it. And its duration is stupidly long, the cooldown fairly short, and diminishing returns do not exist. You can re-force field a target if it's putting out too much damage so you can get a bit of free time to heal up.

 

[Silellak]

Solid post, Sillelak. A bit of a clusterfuck, but such is the way of screenshots. I'll respond at night if I can, other duties call for now.

Yeah, sorry about that. If it helps, think of it as the shortest, most pointless LP ever.

Playing on normal, because I can't stand the combat dragging on anymore than it already does. My disabling spells have been resisted, but I'm pretty sure Force Field is unresistable given that it appears to be treated as a beneficial spell, like buffs, only for some reason you can target enemies with it. And its duration is stupidly long, the cooldown fairly short, and diminishing returns do not exist. You can re-force field a target if it's putting out too much damage so you can get a bit of free time to heal up.

I can guarantee that Force Field is not considered a benefical spell, at least not on Hard mode, and that it's constantly being resisted by any orange-named opponents. Like I said, at this point in the game (Level 17, about to enter the Deep Roads as my last plot area before the Landsmeet) it's resisted by "boss" NPCs at least half the time. And even when it's not resisted, I would say it lasts no longer than 10 seconds on them. Enough time to regroup and heal a bit, maybe, but it's not going to single-handidly turn a fight around, and certainly not long enough to make up for the 30-second cooldown. If I get lucky, I might land a Glyph of Paralysis once they break out of the Force Field, but that lasts an even shorter period of time.

Still, interesting to see the difference between Normal and Hard in that particular respect.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Uh-huh. Actually, you posted those screenshots and said they were pretty good writing. So, VD dear, what is so amazing about the following lines?

"Apparently everyone seems to agree that a Blight is the perfect time to start killing each other. Marvelous, really."

"And how do you know they are right? Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort."

No, really, what? It's functional writing. These lines are not imbued with deeeeeeeep philosophy and great wit. You can find lines like these in any Forgotten Realms novel. They don't do surprising things with language, do not suggest the writer is capable of anything more than workmanlike prose and dialogue. Exactly what do you hope to prove by demanding people comment further than that they're simply average? Is this your idea of literary gold, worthy of in-depth discussion?

Nice try, sweetie. Let's pretend that good writing [in a game] means "literary gold, worthy of in-depth discussion, imbued with deep philosophy and great wit".

Bad writing is this:

"I found raiders and a robot" - it's the most basic "children-like" attempt to communicate and share information.

"It's hardly a safe place to scavenge" - a slightly more complex but still too primitive a sentence, which doesn't even make any fucking sense. Why are you complaining that place x wasn't safe to scavenge? It's a PA world for fuck's sake.

"The Raiders were using the pharmacy to store their best gear" - it almost sounds like a real sentence, but the content, which is what writing is all about, is still idiotic. The raiders kept good shit at their base of operations? You're some kinda genius, mister.

Now, let's go back to DA:

"Apparently everyone seems to agree that a Blight is the perfect time to start killing each other. Marvelous, really."

Well written (disagree? do your own version of this sentence), witty observation that comments on the situation and fits the golem's personality and overall indifference.

"And how do you know they are right? Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort."

I really like this line. A lot is packed into the second sentence. It's always a challenge to say more with less (I loved the Snatch's dialogue lines), and this line does it almost brilliantly.

The player says something that can be summed up as "it goes against the Chantry's teaching". The best counter to that is "how do you know they are right?" It's perfect. It makes the player think. How DO you know? You've been told about the Chantry, you read some books, talked to a few chantry people. In most games things are exactly what you're told about them. This one simple line changes everything and makes you doubt. The mage doesn't explain why they are wrong, which is the right move. He simply asks "how do you know?". As a response, it's pretty fucking good.

Then he adds "Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort." That's just fucking brilliant and sums up pretty much every religion well. This line is actually deep and loaded with contempt and arrogance of one who considers himself above such foolishness. If you can describe religion better in a single sentence, I would surely like to see that.

 

[baronjohn]

Well written... witty... fits... I really like... almost brilliantly... It's perfect... makes the player think... one simple line changes everything and makes you doubt... pretty fucking good... just fucking brilliant... sums up pretty much every religion well... This line is actually deep and loaded... If you can describe religion better in a single sentence, I would surely like to see that.

This is what retards really believe.

 

[Vault Dweller]

butthurt detected

 

[Kingston]

I haven't read through all the pages, but tell me, did you people actually spend over 50 pages discussing DA's story and writing (and VD spending most of those pages defending said writing rabidly)?

Asking what's wrong with the writing and linking to dialogue screenshots is defending the writing rabidly?

Defending anything on the Codex will get you accused of being a "fanboy" who "rabidly defends" said game/company/whatever.

That is the New Shit.

Funny how no one here gets accused of rabidly attacking something, even when they go so far as to make shit up, post screenshots, and even create animated gifs to "prove" their attacks.

No, this is encouraged. We have to keep our good image. Nvm developers just got tired and left, they obviously couldn't take the heat and our powerful arguments like "shit" "sucks" and ":facepalm:"

This should be on the Codex banner.

 

[Pablosdog]

Hey skyway part duex(baronjohn), Stop trying to score codex cool points so you can stroke your epeen.

It's called an opinion, at least he didn't make a banal shit boring cliche review that you did.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Uh-huh. Actually, you posted those screenshots and said they were pretty good writing. So, VD dear, what is so amazing about the following lines?

"Apparently everyone seems to agree that a Blight is the perfect time to start killing each other. Marvelous, really."

"And how do you know they are right? Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort."

No, really, what? It's functional writing. These lines are not imbued with deeeeeeeep philosophy and great wit. You can find lines like these in any Forgotten Realms novel. They don't do surprising things with language, do not suggest the writer is capable of anything more than workmanlike prose and dialogue. Exactly what do you hope to prove by demanding people comment further than that they're simply average? Is this your idea of literary gold, worthy of in-depth discussion?

VD said these are examples of good writing, not kneel-down-and-suck-Bio's-cock writing, posting them only to counter the "the whole writing is shit" comments, not to make us see how incredible the writing is.

 

[Lesifoere]

So, uhm... you want to prove that DA writing is good by comparing it to that of FO3? Really? Here, let me google up some essays by ten-year-old children. We can compare-and-contrast and rejoice in David Gaider's mastery of language compared to that too.

Well written (disagree? do your own version of this sentence), witty observation that comments on the situation and fits the golem's personality and overall indifference.

So... should we tell you to do your own version of Oblivion since you wrote a scathing review of it? I don't see it as a particularly amazing line. Shale is not a complex, well-developed character anymore than HK-47 was. Okay for a good laugh, great gameplay-wise as a tank that can AOE stun, but I must deeply apologize that I can't appreciate his/her/its brilliant wit the way you apparently do.

Then he adds "Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort." That's just fucking brilliant and sums up pretty much every religion well. This line is actually deep and loaded with contempt and arrogance of one who considers himself above such foolishness. If you can describe religion better in a single sentence, I would surely like to see that.

Oh dear. Are you trolling me?

But if not--I'm an atheist and you just made me cringe. That's it? This is what you find profound, a statement that summarizes something as obvious as "fire is hot"? Yeah, I bet most college freshmen agree with you. The Chantry is a Crystal Dragon Jesus and the templars are, well, templars; you can tell, pretty much from the start--especially if you come from a mage background--that they're your run-of-the-mill Inquisition-esque institution that tolerates no heresy (hunting down "apostates" and all that rot). And you say this... changes everything and makes the player doubt? Really? Maybe if you've never seen this stale, stale fantasy cliche before. Maybe if you're really quite dumb or have never been exposed to real-world Christianity and can't draw the hilariously obvious parallels between the Maker and that invisible sky daddy.

Even the phrasing itself hardly sparkles with linguistic creativity. "Swallowing [bullshit]" is a cliche; "small/cold comfort" is ditto. If you think saying a lot through common cliches is the way to go, well, at least nobody can say you have unrealistic standards.

VD said these are examples of good writing, not kneel-down-and-suck-Bio's-cock writing, posting them only to counter the "the whole writing is shit" comments, not to make us see how incredible the writing is.

See above where he went and called it "deep and brilliant." Poor you.

 

[baronjohn]

"Apparently everyone seems to agree that a Blight is the perfect time to start killing each other. Marvelous, really."

Well written (disagree? do your own version of this sentence), witty observation that comments on the situation and fits the golem's personality and overall indifference.

Why would that be considered well-written or witty? Seriously. I know Bioshit tried to make a character who's wise and cynical to the ways of the world (very original), but all they created was a subnormal douchebag. This is because Bioware writers are subnormal douchebags, presumably.

"And how do you know they are right? Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort."

I really like this line. A lot is packed into the second sentence. It's always a challenge to say more with less (I loved the Snatch's dialogue lines), and this line does it almost brilliantly.

This is just a bland anti-religious line. Why is this even here? It's a deadly violation of etiquette to question someone's religion, and you're not going to be successful in turning anyone away from what they believe. That's why it's not done in real life or well-written fiction.

In good fiction a character who questioned the leader's religion would be executed on the spot and fed to the dogs. Only in a shitty video game could have you a discussion like that ends with "Hmm. You may be right." after questioning your superior's beliefs.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I'm sorry VD, but you have to beat the 'writing criticism' game on 'normal' first, where dueling 1eyedking and his ilk is just the tutorial, and only then you'll unlock the 'nightmare' level to challenge Lesi

 

[Volourn]

"Yeah. In another thread, people went "so what do you expect, colorful and chatty NPCs? The Deep Roads are like the Underdark, of course it's full of monsters and tunnels." Except BG2's Underdark was, you know... full of shit to explore. Like an illithid city (and gith NPCs), the petrified mage (leading to a side-quest), a svirfneblin village, and so on and so on."

What an idiot. Illithid cityw a snothing more than an excuse to fight (fun fight but fight nontheles). The svirv village was not even a real village. It was a handle of crybaby gnomes. Ooo.. a mage side quest. Funny that the Deep Roads has its share of quests. The only major thing in BG2 UD was the drow town which you conviently didn't even mention. But, the Deep Roads has Urzammar.



"This is just a bland anti-religious line. Why is this even here? It's a deadly violation of etiquette to question someone's religion, and you're not going to be successful in turning anyone away from what they believe. That's why it's not done in real life or well-written fiction.

In good fiction a character who questioned the leader's religion would be executed on the spot and fed to the dogs. Only in a shitty video game could have you a discussion like that ends with "Hmm. You may be right." after questioning your superior's beliefs."

You are dumb.




Anyways, DA's writing overall is fantastic.

Also:

It's official....

DA > BG2

 

[Silellak]

"Apparently everyone seems to agree that a Blight is the perfect time to start killing each other. Marvelous, really."

Well written (disagree? do your own version of this sentence), witty observation that comments on the situation and fits the golem's personality and overall indifference.

Why would that be considered well-written or witty? Seriously. I know Bioshit tried to make a character who's wise and cynical to the ways of the world (very original), but all they created was a subnormal douchebag. This is because Bioware writers are subnormal douchebags, presumably.

"And how do you know they are right? Their faith would make you swallow a great deal for small comfort."

I really like this line. A lot is packed into the second sentence. It's always a challenge to say more with less (I loved the Snatch's dialogue lines), and this line does it almost brilliantly.

This is just a bland anti-religious line. Why is this even here? It's a deadly violation of etiquette to question someone's religion, and you're not going to be successful in turning anyone away from what they believe. That's why it's not done in real life or well-written fiction.

In good fiction a character who questioned the leader's religion would be executed on the spot and fed to the dogs. Only in a shitty video game could have you a discussion like that ends with "Hmm. You may be right." after questioning your superior's beliefs.

You might be better off playing the game for longer than 30 minutes before making comments that reveal your own ignorance.

Just for your own info, the character who is "questioning" the PC's religion isn't a party member. He's an incredibly powerful, very old mage in the Wardens who, if anything, would outrank your character.

Fun fact! That's not the only way you're wrong. The character is just pointing out that what the NPC said goes against what the Chantry claims, not that your character necessarily believes that, or follows the religion the Chantry preaches.

God, DA's writing sucks because it isn't realistic in this completely made up scenario I invented in my own brain because I never actually saw this part of the game.

I'm not going to even bother discussing your inaccurate description of Shale (a golem, not that you knew that), since I'm 100% certain you didn't get anywhere near far enough in the game to recruit him.