Game News Dragon Age is too hard; 1st patch makes it easier

[Worm]

That's a pretty weak deflection of the video above, fyi.

Please tell us your non-exploitable AI then.

haha christ. So basically you're saying that preventing kiting is NP-Complete. Try not to look like too much of a sycophant here.

It is unfortunate there is nothing in gameplay to keep you from running around wherever you like, since the NPC's AI utilizes that tactic a ton. However, to look at that video and say "no AI could solve this problem" is fucking idiotic.

Furthermore, I don't think people were just laughing at the AI there, but the entire gameplay model that not only allows such play, but in fact encourages it.

 

[Xor]

Well, really, bioware should have anticipated hit and run tactics and given most or at least some of the enemies ways to deal with that - slow spells, nets, ranged weapons, etc.

 

[Worm]

Manatee might point out, that no such things were in Baldur's Gate 2, so the RPG tradition of digging a ditch to lower the bar would be violated.

 

[MetalCraze]

Well, really, bioware should have anticipated hit and run tactics and given most or at least some of the enemies ways to deal with that - slow spells, nets, ranged weapons, etc.

No sorry, DA has the best real-time combat ever!

 

[Volourn]

"I doubt there was another way to kill him at this stage. "

Bullshit.


Sorround him, and then rape him. It's 4 on fuckin 1, dude. Stop being a pussy!

 

[Davaris]

I thought about that, but it would turn the game into a benny hill simulator, chasing every enemy with low health. I once installed a mod for Morrowind that does just that. I was forced to hunt down everyone with a bow for miles.

True. But would you just stand there and die, if you couldn't hit an opponent?


The other thing they may not be doing is predicting where the player is going to be. That could be why the soldier is standing there like an idiot, while the player runs in circles.

If they are predicting, then its because the soldier knows it is not fast enough. So the logical thing to do is to run for wooded cover Benny Hill style and keep running till the player gives up. Its what a human player would do, if they knew they were out classed.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

I didn't see much difference between Normal and Easy. So this patch makes some sense from my experience.

Seriously? Without the patch normal is fairly challenging, and easy is too easy.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

That's a pretty weak deflection of the video above, fyi.

Please tell us your non-exploitable AI then.

haha christ. So basically you're saying that preventing kiting is NP-Complete. Try not to look like too much of a sycophant here.

You show your ignorance well. Please do look up what an NP complete problem is. It is completely unrelated to a question of whether an AI can accomplish this task. Its a very narrow set of problems. Saying words you do not know the meaning of makes you retarded.

Given an opponent can do these two things:

A. Attack in melee range.
B. Move (at the same speed as its enemy).

Tell me how it can attack a ranged opponent. The fact is it can't. There is no AI in the world that can do this, and no human in the world that can do this. I can prove this by a very simple AI that PREVENTS any melee opponent that operating under these rules from doing so:

IF enemy within melee range + max movement speed * time to being able to move
THEN Move away
Else Shoot.

Frankly the easiest and most reasonably realistic way to fix this (other then simply giving every enemy snares and ranged attacks), is simply to have enemies not engage and avoid players if its obvious they are outnumbered and outclassed. Unfortunately then we have the problem of the entire enemy army gathering up until the player has to face them all at once.

 

[Volourn]

That woudl be hiloarious just to see the crying that comences!

 

[Worm]

That's a pretty weak deflection of the video above, fyi.

Please tell us your non-exploitable AI then.

haha christ. So basically you're saying that preventing kiting is NP-Complete. Try not to look like too much of a sycophant here.

You show your ignorance well. Please do look up what an NP complete problem is. It is completely unrelated to a question of whether an AI can accomplish this task. Its a very narrow set of problems. Saying words you do not know the meaning of makes you retarded.

That was a joke aspiemancer. Didn't someone say you could circle strafe kite a dragon in DO:A, could you do that in Baldur's Gate 2?

As for the rest of your post, yeah maybe kiting can't be solved by AI coding alone, but when the guy starts making a perfect circle and the fucking monster sits there spinning in space (like you are right now), that probably COULD be solved by better AI. You can stamp your feet all your want, but the existence of such a fucking retarded exploit just makes the game look bad. Invoking the fact that all RPGs are shitty, or nonsense about how 'kiting ultimately can NEVER be solved with AI, so why even try?' are just weak ass deflections.

Additionally they could go far beyond the snare ideas, and simply let enemies walk and attack if they've been chasing a player for awhile (likewise for the player), increase attack range, or just add a sprint that consumes stamina.

That's great you like the game, but trying to play off that embarrassing video as a "gameplay feature" is a little desperate.

 

[Davaris]

let enemies walk and attack if they've been chasing a player for awhile (likewise for the player), increase attack range, or just add a sprint that consumes stamina.

Good ideas and easy to implement.

 

[Norfleet]

The fact is that if you can run as fast as the enemy you can kite forever. It doesn't matter how smart they are, if they are melee and you are ranged and both are the same speed, the ranged will always win.

Isn't this fundamentally a truism of life in general? Assuming you don't do anything stupid like run yourself into a corner, in real life there *IS* no way to beat an enemy that can move faster than you and outrange you. That's the entire concept behind Mongolian horse archer. Short of hoping you survive long enough for them to run out of ammo, if you don't have an equivalent or better ranged capability, you are dogmeat. There *IS* thus no way to prevent "kiting" if your attacker is faster than you. DA ranged doesn't appear to run out of ammo, so anytime you can outrun your opponent, you can pummel them with impunity...and in many fights, this is really the only way to win.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

let enemies walk and attack if they've been chasing a player for awhile (likewise for the player), increase attack range, or just add a sprint that consumes stamina.

Good ideas and easy to implement.

Giving a makeshift ranged attack, like throwing rocks, would be nice too. Not as effective as a proper ranged attacker, but still something to punish a character that keeps running away.

I think the main problem with that battle is that the enemy simply couldn't let go of the initial aggro. He would just keep being shot at the back while chasing the guy that is as fast as him, instead of going for the stationary group attacking his back. They could still spread, but then the solutons above could be applied to each one instead of going for a single guy running at the same speed as the enemy.

But then, I think there's a "provoke" skill that draws aggro to the user, so I think that maybe the PC could be using that.

 

[GarfunkeL]

I hate the whole "aggro" concept from MMO's and now it has found its way into single-player games too. Whoopee.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

The enemy goes for the most dangerous player*, instead of going suicidal at the melees to be pelted by the ranged ones, or just attacking whoever comes near (which will most likely be the warriors, anyway).

* Like, the supple mage that keeps throwing shit at him, or the healer. I don't think there's a problem with that.

Here, the problem is that the enemy couldn't understand that chasing the guy around isn't going to help matters, instead of changing the aggression to who is actually threatening. If he could forget about him (or had access to the methods mentioned above), he could cause some damage.

 

[Volourn]

"I hate the whole "aggro" concept from MMO's and now it has found its way into single-player games too. Whoopee.
_________________"

"Aggro" concept has been around in SP RPGs for years.

 

[MetalCraze]

Yes and you would've thought that next-gen would have at least something new and at least on a par with 10-15 years old games like proper AI instead of sooo last-gen aggroes.
DA is just an MMO with larping.

 

[Worm]

Honestly after playing for a bit, I just started playing past the mmo stuff. I do a little crowd control, but no more than I might in Baldur's gate if monsters hit this hard. I don't have a tank, I rarely use taunt. I mainly am just playing it ignoring the MMO stuff. I do however hate the abilities on cooldown and much prefer limited uses per day.

AGGRO was great in Army of Two tho

 

[made]

Eh, depends who you're fighting. Branka moves faster than you and will catch up pretty fast, the last Revenant I killed had a slowing aura, others had an aoe "get over here" pull. You can't kite every single enemy and often it's just easier/faster to tank and heal or chain-pot.

Btw, all bosses so far seem to be susceptible to CC although they may resist a lot. I think that's pretty cool for a change considering in most games bosses are immune to the majority of abilities because they couldn't be arsed to balance them properly.

 

[Volourn]

I gotta say hard is relaly hard. L0L This is the first game I've player EVER where I've thought about lowering dififculty. Haven't yet... but, it's really annoying consideirng i like to call pussies and I'm acting like one now. :p

I think one of the things that makes it hard is I'm now allowed to iso,. I have little doubt I';ve have an easier time handling things.

I still haven't figured out a way to deal with spamming masses of enmies when they are all using talents like knockdown/stun. L0LZ

R00fles!

 

[Serious_Business]

I gotta say hard is relaly hard. L0L This is the first game I've player EVER where I've thought about lowering dififculty. Haven't yet... but, it's really annoying consideirng i like to call pussies and I'm acting like one now. :p

I think one of the things that makes it hard is I'm now allowed to iso,. I have little doubt I';ve have an easier time handling things.

I still haven't figured out a way to deal with spamming masses of enmies when they are all using talents like knockdown/stun. L0LZ

R00fles!

YEEEEAAAAA READY TO GET THAT PUSSY STRETCHED TO THE END OF THE WORLD BABY?

 

[Stalin]

Fuck the patch i got the DLC that filling my inventory with pretty imba items at start

 

[Azarkon]

Glad to see they lowered the difficulty. Game is fucking brutal for people not min-maxing their party. Yeah, it's easy with certain mage builds. Or if you exploit the AI and LOS. But for those who want to genuinely tackle the fights head-on, it was nigh impossible when your tank decked out in the best gear possible goes down in seconds against a group, groups of 10+ are the norm, and potions are actually expensive.

 

[Worm]

Ser Cauthrien is a perfect example of how RPG developers need to grow the fuck up. I almost see why tycho writes a "I'm an evil dungeon master" joke at least once every month, and that's because shit heads think it's hilarious to torture people, so he has an audience of real live EVIL DMs who apparently get jobs working on RPGs.

I'd be surprised if the game was play tested at all by non-sycophants. Some of the encounters are just (MORE TRAPS, MORE ARCHERS, MORE MAGES, OH AND BOSS THAT HITS FOR ALL YOUR LIFE). Oh, and I switched to easy and she's hitting for the same exact value, but just actually seems to have a miss chance now. I'd be really surprised if anyone one maged her.

 

[Volourn]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!