Dragon Age - official Codex verdict

[Melcar]

It's like Bizarro Codex.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Does it bother you that nobody gives a fuck what you think, baron?

Irony

Must be why they asked me to review Dragon Age for the Codex.

About five different people have been asked to review it.

 

[Ch1ef]

"Actually, I'd also like to hear what makes it so really damn 'best since Arcanum', since everything I've read about it so far seems to point that it's hardly anything revolutionary, and most of its assets seem either recycled or generic or mediocre. "

Actually, it's better than Arcanum. Arcanum has the role-playing done well; but it's combat is atrocious in comparison. I mean, did ARC really have any memorable or epic battles? I am actually one of SARC's biggest supporters when it comes to its comkbat. It is fun for the most part but it is nowhere as good as DA.


Also, last I checked, Arcanum didn't do anything 'revolutionary' either. And, it's dwarves and elves are the veryd efintion of generic (thoguh I like dwarves anyways).
Main story wise I give the edge to ARC; but characters wise, DA wins hands down no contest.

Just say no to drugs...

















just say no...

 

[Vault Dweller]

the best RPG since Arcanum.

Hm I wonder if you keep up this statement with time, VD. After all, Dragon Age is rather new game and mostly the goods & flaws can be seen after few next different or similar replays.

Actually, I'd also like to hear what makes it so really damn 'best since Arcanum', since everything I've read about it so far seems to point that it's hardly anything revolutionary, and most of its assets seem either recycled or generic or mediocre.

I'll tell you everything you need to know to make an informative decision in my review.

The game isn't revolutionary, it's just well done. It is loaded with the old and familiar (and done to death) concepts, but it does them very well, adding more depth and polish, and greatly improving them.

The way I see it, anyone who has or had a "name" at the Codex is praising or enjoying the game, posting detailed impressions. The only people who bitch about it are skyway and the army of newfags desperately trying to show how much hate they have. Their posts are similar to this crap. This should tell you everything you need to know, but if it's not enough, wait for my review.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Does it bother you that nobody gives a fuck what you think, baron?

Irony

Must be why they asked me to review Dragon Age for the Codex.

About five different people have been asked to review it.

Were you one of them, by any chance, sweetheart? No? Well, feel free to shut the fuck up then.

 

[Tails]

The magic/tech combo was definitely cool; but unique, dunno about that.

Well there is not many games that does such combo for sure. Arcanum strong sides always was not only atmosphere or magic/tech combo, but also writing and voice acting. Combat for sure is poorly implemented but still it's not so tragic to be pain in the arse.

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

the best RPG since Arcanum.

So you think DA is better than Bloodlines? I find that pretty hard to believe, but I won't discount the possibility.

Could you describe why you think DA is the superior game of those two?

The main thing working against Bloodlines is the unfinished state in which it was released. That, and the fact that you could either break the combat system or suck at combat entirely (and/or break the stealth system or suck at it entirely - visible especially in the unfinished parts). Never managed to find the middle-ground. It was either powergaming or nothing at all.

 

[Vault Dweller]

the best RPG since Arcanum.

So you think DA is better than Bloodlines? I find that pretty hard to believe, but I won't discount the possibility.

Could you describe why you think DA is the superior game of those two?

I gotta run now, but I'll explain later on tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[Darth Roxor]

This should tell you everything you need to know, but if it's not enough, wait for my review.

Actually, some of the talking made me a bit intrigued, so I'm getting the 'demo version' as we speak to see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

baronjohn's review is brilliant, VD

use it as a template

 

[Volourn]

"So you think DA is better than Bloodlines?"

Yes, no contest. While it arguably has a better story and wiritng, BL's combat is absolutely atrocious and since it an important part of the game it has to matter.



"Combat for sure is poorly implemented but still it's not so tragic to be pain in the arse."

hey, don't have to convince me. I liked ARC's combat just fine. As for witing, Arcanum's writing was great but the npcs simply weren't that memorable. I only really remember 2, and one of them is a dwarf so I'm auto biased in his favor, and the other is Virgirl. Otherwise, blaisse. And, non joinables are even less memorable.

Believe me, for example, in DA if you are playing a dwarf noble you will remember certain people.

 

[Monocause]

I agree with Manatee. Roxor, if you're asking why it is called the best RPG since Arcanum you should also add which RPGs you consider to be proper rivals. The only real ones would be the aforementioned MoTB and perhaps Bloodlines.

MoTB has a better story, no questions about it. In the combat department, however, DA beats it without a blink. I found the highlevel DnD combat in MoTB a stupid chore I had to do just to sink my teeth further in the delicious story; halfway through I was so bored with it that I cheated to make my party invincible and get the combat segments done as quickly as possible. That's the reason I consider DA superior - all things considered together it's a better game.

You could mention two more games, The Witcher and Bloodlines - though it poses some problems because they're both ARPGs in essence, making them obviously different from DA in terms of what they tried to achieve; gets even simpler here though. The Witcher had a story that was (arguably, at least in my opinion but I may be biased) better. It had better graphics and a better art direction. A nice alchemy system with some wasted potential. DA beats TW in practically every other aspect of the gameplay.
Bloodlines comes off similarily beaten by DA with the overall value mark. Not to mention that DA doesn't have a rushed ending that'd have you gasp in frustration.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

The main thing working against Bloodlines is the unfinished state in which it was released. That, and the fact that you could either break the combat system or suck at combat entirely (and/or break the stealth system or suck at it entirely - visible especially in the unfinished parts). Never managed to find the middle-ground. It was either powergaming or nothing at all.

Well, if combat is the main problem with Bloodlines, then saying "DA is the best game since Arcanum" doesn't make all that much sense either. I don't disagree that Bloodlines had terrible combat, but I think Arcanum was even worse in that regard. I really never had a problem with powergaming in Bloodlines, since the majority of combat was pretty easy, and you could usually just kite the harder enemies, even with poor firearms skill.

I gotta run now, but I'll explain later on tonight or tomorrow morning.

Alright, cool. I'm definitely starting to get intrigued about DA after being completely put off by the hype campaign.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I agree with Manatee. Roxor, if you're asking why it is called the best RPG since Arcanum you should also add which RPGs you consider to be proper rivals. The only real ones would be the aforementioned MoTB and perhaps Bloodlines.

I'd add to that Knights of the Chalice, Storm of Zehir and motherfucking Wizardry 8 for sure.

Kotor2 I also liked very much, but I suppose this can also be scratched off 'because of combat'.

Gothic 2 (+NotR) and Risen are also valid contestants.

I could probably come up with a few more but it's late and I can't think clearly.

I'm also really, REALLY curious about this combat thingy that seems to be hyped up to the stratosphere, because of how challenging it is.

But then, ever since I first played Betrayal At Krondor (which was 10 years ago), nothing surprised me with difficult combat

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

The main thing working against Bloodlines is the unfinished state in which it was released. That, and the fact that you could either break the combat system or suck at combat entirely (and/or break the stealth system or suck at it entirely - visible especially in the unfinished parts). Never managed to find the middle-ground. It was either powergaming or nothing at all.

Well, if combat is the main problem with Bloodlines, then saying "DA is the best game since Arcanum" doesn't make all that much sense either. I don't disagree that Bloodlines had terrible combat, but I think Arcanum was even worse in that regard. I really never had a problem with powergaming in Bloodlines, since the majority of combat was pretty easy, and you could usually just kite the harder enemies, even with poor firearms skill.

The main problem is the unfinished state. The problem as I see it is that the great RPing stuff ends about 3/4ths into the game (it's more gradual, actually, the downward spiral gets steeper from Hollywood on). It gradually gets more and more half-assed, and you can clearly see that there's obvious stuff missing/cut out. Even in the skill-use department; it's got its moments of glory before that happens, though.

If only they had finished it 100%, and tested a bit more. If only.

As to combat, sure, kiting is always a solution, but I guess that for me having to resort to kiting or other dubious tactics screams "broken combat". The sad thing is that when you've got a power-gamey character, the combat gets fun, and still requires at least a bit of effort. Otherwise it's a chore (as you said, kiting 'n stuff).

EDIT: I'd have to second Roxor's contestants. Gothic 2 + NotR especially. Although knowing the way VD rolls (see his Gothic 3 review), he'd probably disagree.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Well, I feel like I'm qualified to give a short and perhaps pithy review of Dragon Age, now I've completed one playthrough.

I really enjoyed the origin story. I chose human noble, and thought the whole thing played out rather well. In my opinion, Bioware have been strong on character writing and voice acting in every game they've made since KOTOR, and it helped me get into the story. I was really pissed off when my family were all killed and my title taken from me. Also, Loghain's betrayal of the King at Ostogar hit deep too.

The combat felt very NWN-ish to me, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think I've played an RPG that handled real time combat well, except maybe The Witcher. I think RTwP is the best go-between, and Bioware have done enough games of this sort to have polished the system and make it work right. I feel having three classes instead of 20+ like NWN/NWN2 had helps too. You can still specialise if you want, but there's no more messing about with all these different skills, and you can't become a jack of all trades either because if you spread your skill points too evenly, you'll end up being useless at everything.

I was impressed by the length. KOTOR and KOTOR2 each took me about 25 hours to play through. Mass Effect, with all planets and all quests done, took 30. Dragon Age took me 45h, and I feel there's still a few things I haven't done.

I don't think the characters are as memorable as some of other Bioware's creations. Morrigan was good, but I think that was mainly down to Claudia Black than anything else (I hated her in SG-1, but she's a damn fine voice actress in this). Alistair was too much of a whiny bitch, I enjoyed making a certain choice about him towards the end of the game. I found Shale and Oghren very irritating, and the Dog didn't do much for my liking, apart from running off and gathering the occasional item. Sten was just a cunt. He wouldn't talk to me, and I didn't know what gifts he liked, so I didn't do anything with him after he joined my party. Shale was excellent, though. A bit too HK-47ish, perhaps, but that isn't really a bad thing.

A few negatives. First, the epilogue. I really expected some kind of grand finale where I went back to Highever Castle and helped my brother reclaim the barony. Instead I got something like a medal ceremony and a lot of vague 'here's what I'm gonna do next' dialoguefrom my party members. I would have preferred a good proper epilogue depending on what origin story the player chose and what subsequent choices they made throughout the game.

Another negative was the Warden's Keep DLC. I completed it in under an hour, and all I got were two lousy merchants and a storage chest I didn't even need (you can buy backpacks throughout your travels that get the job done). The Stone Prisoner was an excellent little bundle, and I was expecting WK to deliver something of the same quality. I was disappointed.

From a technical standpoint, I feel The Witcher had better graphics, but DA runs better than TW did out of the box. I've heard a lot of whining on the internet about loading times; that must be from consoletards. I have barely any loading at all. The only problem I've been having is random CTDs, I hear that is down to the ATI Catalyst drivers which should be fixed when the new ones come out.

Now I'm on a second playthrough, and I will pick the other choices and see if there were any real consequences other than who you get to fight with in the final battle. I've already done all the other origin stories... I liked the Dwarf noble, City Elf and Mage ones, but thought the Dwarf commoner rather so-so and the Dalish Elf rather shit.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

The main problem is the unfinished state. The problem as I see it is that the great RPing stuff ends about 3/4ths into the game (it's more gradual, actually, the downward spiral gets steeper from Hollywood on). It gradually gets more and more half-assed, and you can clearly see that there's obvious stuff missing/cut out. Even in the skill-use department; it's got its moments of glory before that happens, though.

If only they had finished it 100%, and tested a bit more. If only.

As to combat, sure, kiting is always a solution, but I guess that for me having to resort to kiting or other dubious tactics screams "broken combat". The sad thing is that when you've got a power-gamey character, the combat gets fun, and still requires at least a bit of effort. Otherwise it's a chore (as you said, kiting 'n stuff).

EDIT: I'd have to second Roxor's contestants. Gothic 2 + NotR especially. Although knowing the way VD rolls (see his Gothic 3 review), he'd probably disagree.

Yeah I can definitely see your argument, though the first 3/4ths of the game is so great that I think it kinda makes up for it, though I haven't played DA yet so I can't compare them. And yeah, you're right that kiting basically defines broken combat, though I think I still enjoy it more than Arcanum's combat. The thing I've noticed about Bloodlines is that the most fun clans to play (Malk and Nosferatu) both get obfuscate, which allows you to skip a lot of the shitty combat if you max it early.

And I can't believe I forgot about Gothic 2 as far as best RPG since Arcanum, especially since it's pretty much my favorite RPG. No matter how good DA may be, I highly doubt I'll like it as much as Gothic 2 + NoTR. I can actually see myself enjoying it more than Bloodlines, though I don't think its very likely.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Another negative was the Warden's Keep DLC. I completed it in under an hour, and all I got were two lousy merchants and a storage chest I didn't even need (you can buy backpacks throughout your travels that get the job done).

Huh. Weren't people bitching about that being the only storage in the game

so it's useless after all

 

[Monocause]

I'd add to that Knights of the Chalice, Storm of Zehir and motherfucking Wizardry 8 for sure.

Kotor2 I also liked very much, but I suppose this can also be scratched off 'because of combat'.

Gothic 2 (+NotR) and Risen are also valid contestants.

I could probably come up with a few more but it's late and I can't think clearly.

I didn't even mention KotC for the same reason I didn't mention ToEE. These are very, very different games. I've played the KotC demo and it seemed to me that there is no real story or characters to speak of - just interesting combat scenarios. The same with ToEE. It doesn't make any sense to compare them to DA since they're so combat-centric. Well, of course ToEE has better combat than DA. There is just no other gameplay aspect to compare, unless you consider ToEE 'story' something worth mentioning - which, considering you seem a sane guy, you probably don't.

Gothic series and Risen feel even more akward to compare. It boils down to personal preference and your expectations.

I'm also really, REALLY curious about this combat thingy that seems to be hyped up to the stratosphere, because of how challenging it is.
But then, ever since I first played Betrayal At Krondor (which was 10 years ago), nothing surprised me with difficult combat

It isn't hyped to the stratosphere ;> People who like DA, myself included, say that it's just well done, consistently challenging and enjoyable, without becoming a chore or a yawnfest anytime during the playthrough.

From a technical standpoint, I feel The Witcher had better graphics, but DA runs better than TW did out of the box. I've heard a lot of whining on the internet about loading times; that must be from consoletards. I have barely any loading at all. The only problem I've been having is random CTDs, I hear that is down to the ATI Catalyst drivers which should be fixed when the new ones come out.

There is an issue with loading times. Usually they're really fast, but when I played the game for three consecutive hours or so, they got unbearable. After saving and restarting the game they went normal for some time and then started getting unbearable again. My guess is that there's a memory leak. You might've not noticed it because you have a better rig.

 

[Korgan]

Yeah, there's a huge fucking memory leak that'll make you quit and reload every 3-4 hours.

 

[protobob]

I am rising from my shallow lurker's grave to say: Dragon Age is pretty damn good (And I've finished it, too).

I played it through with a Male Dwarf Warrior Commoner (Shields, Champion Spec) and was pretty much a good guy. I really enjoyed the ending.

I'm now playing as a Female Human Mage psychopath. Good times.

My initial impression of the game was pretty much negative but I started to like it more and more, and by the end I was a convert.

 

[Inziladun]

Another negative was the Warden's Keep DLC. I completed it in under an hour, and all I got were two lousy merchants and a storage chest I didn't even need (you can buy backpacks throughout your travels that get the job done).

Huh. Weren't people bitching about that being the only storage in the game

so it's useless after all

Pretty much, unless you have that Hoarder mentality, you really don't need to store anything. Personally I just sold all my spare shit to the vendor that follows you around and stays in your camp. That way I knew if I needed anything back for any reason I could just buy it back. Worked out well for little things like Garnets and crafting components needed for quests.

Everything else stayed right where it was.

 

[Grunker]

Best since Arcanum? What does that even mean? (and before you say it; obvious joke is obvious)

Fuck. The game's good no doubt, but the writing is extremely bad compared to Bloodlines or even The Witcher's. So is C&C. Even Origin-consequenes are worse than Bloodlines' clan-consequences.

The game has next to no clear defined goal other than to end TEH HORDE INVASION, it's only good antagonist is so absent it's glaring and it's so filled with clichés and ripoffs it might just be the most ripoffish game ever made.

Best RPG since Arcanum? No fucking way in hell.

I'm on the "game is good"-side, but this is taking it way too far. Even I won't lower my standards to that level, and mine are pretty low to begin with.

Case in point being that even VD mostly commends the game for general stuff that could also be in other games (setting, combat, etc.). As far as roleplaying goes, there's definetely other titles that have done better.*







*Bloodlines, The Witcher, Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords, Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, just to name some.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Most people that like the game admit the writing isn't the good thing about the game, but how all the elements work together.

I just wish this thing would go faster, so I could give my totally important opinion

 

[Ch1ef]

LOL PUSSIES
Fuck you DraQ.