Orange Clock
Educated
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2022
- Messages
- 94
1. The only nobles who aren't evil in GoT are portrayed as helpless idiots. In DAO good nobles like your dad in the human origin are portrayed as both wellmeaning and competent.I agree that plagiarism is the least of DAO problems, but using ideas it “stole” from other fantasy books/series better? Not really.
1.Not all nobles in ASOIAF(GoT) are evil, even Lannisters who presented as such in earlier books are shown to have “feelings and emotions”(especially Jaime in A Feast for Crows).
2.Witcher’s portrayal of oppressed race is also better/on par(if we count subsequent DA games) with Origins. I guess being a pole and having a firsthand experience with jewish ghettos and pogroms helps.
3.That’s probably true
Also AFAIK DAO stole it whole cosmology/religion from Wheel of Time, didn’t read it so idk if it’s better or not, but seeing it all being based on Christianity, I’d say Bible lore is cooler.
PS. Dwarfs are great, sadly sequels chased le old elven gods narrative
2. Witcher is preachy about it. DAO shows elves being oppressed but it also shows elves doing evil shit like Zevran and Zathrian. It doesn't become a onesided Humans Bad Elves Good virtue signal until the sequels but Witcher is always onesided to the point Geralt the monster hunter constantly goes off about how monsters aren't bad and humans are the real monsters.
Twitcher 1 deviated quite alot from the source material. I agree that it was similar to DAO in tone but the books themselves as well as the sequels take a hardline leftoid worldview and push it on you. Geralt in 3 is a walking soapbox for the writers. DA's sequels are even worse than Twitcher's books or games though so I'll give you that.Yeah, nope.I don't think DAO was great but I think the plagiarism accusations it gets aren't good criticism.
Plagiarism in fantasy is inevitable because all the basic tropes were already established centuries ago and every since author since early modern times has aped what someone else already made. The difference between inspiration and plagiarism is putting your own spin on it.
Dragon Age rips ideas from Game of Thrones, Twitcher and Warhammer but it uses said ideas better than any of those three things. It manages political intrigue without every noble being cartoonishly evil like GoT, it's unfortunately liberal but never preachy about it like Twitcher and it's dark but not retardark like Warhammer.
At that point in time, there was only Twitcher 1 out, and it, being the best in the series, was far from preachy and liberal. Must I remind you that it was the collect-sex-cards-for-banging-chicks game?
Warhammer Fantasy is not retardark. Mayhap some wargame material suggests that, but definitely not the Role Play sourcebooks and campaigns. Neither is 40K for that matter, but this is not the right discussion for that. DAOs problem is, it lifted specific relationship between emotions, the otherworldly realm of swirling possibilities, daemons, magic and mages almost word for word from Warhammer. This is something more than using the same basic trope.
You might have a point with GoT. Never cared much about it, so can't compare and contrast the two satisfactorily. I'll tell you this tho: individually, Tywin Lannister >>> Loghain.
Warhammer Fantasy's pretty retardark though. It's not on the same level as 40k but it's close. The RPG books are what codified all the Warhammer worlds being a doomed struggle for chaos's entertainment and characters casually doing horribly evil and extremely stupid things for no real reason or gain. That doesn't happen in DAO.
Howe and Loghain seem that way at first but if you look into things they've both got reasonable motivations for being dickheads and sincerely plan on getting something good out of it for themselves and Ferelden. Warhammer villain motives are I Want To Kill People Because I'm Bad. You could say the same for the Archdemon but that's the demonic dragon and just one character. Every Warhammer villain is like that.
I don't know much about GoT's details but I know just about every villain is inbred and sex crazed, usually incestuously sex crazed, so I doubt anyone's better than Loghain, who if you talk to and read lore notes about realize has completely reasonable grievances but seriously underestimates the darkspawn. Crazy evil villains like GoT's and Warhammer's exist and aren't bad in and of themselves, but when every single antagonist is exactly the same it gets old.
1. Would you call Varis, Illirio and Jon Connington evil or incompetent idiots just because they want to restore the former dynasty and breed a perfect prince for that? Or Doran Martell who sits in his chair making 4d chess moves to avenge his family? I’d argue Taiwin wasn’t evil too, maybe to Tyrion, but not as a ruler of the Kingdom. Also there’s only one crazy villain in the series — Dayeneres, others have a reason for being “evil”(even if it’s something stupid as being cucked in Littlefinger’s case).1. The only nobles who aren't evil in GoT are portrayed as helpless idiots. In DAO good nobles like your dad in the human origin are portrayed as both wellmeaning and competent.I agree that plagiarism is the least of DAO problems, but using ideas it “stole” from other fantasy books/series better? Not really.
1.Not all nobles in ASOIAF(GoT) are evil, even Lannisters who presented as such in earlier books are shown to have “feelings and emotions”(especially Jaime in A Feast for Crows).
2.Witcher’s portrayal of oppressed race is also better/on par(if we count subsequent DA games) with Origins. I guess being a pole and having a firsthand experience with jewish ghettos and pogroms helps.
3.That’s probably true
Also AFAIK DAO stole it whole cosmology/religion from Wheel of Time, didn’t read it so idk if it’s better or not, but seeing it all being based on Christianity, I’d say Bible lore is cooler.
PS. Dwarfs are great, sadly sequels chased le old elven gods narrative
2. Witcher is preachy about it. DAO shows elves being oppressed but it also shows elves doing evil shit like Zevran and Zathrian. It doesn't become a onesided Humans Bad Elves Good virtue signal until the sequels but Witcher is always onesided to the point Geralt the monster hunter constantly goes off about how monsters aren't bad and humans are the real monsters.
Twitcher 1 deviated quite alot from the source material. I agree that it was similar to DAO in tone but the books themselves as well as the sequels take a hardline leftoid worldview and push it on you. Geralt in 3 is a walking soapbox for the writers. DA's sequels are even worse than Twitcher's books or games though so I'll give you that.Yeah, nope.I don't think DAO was great but I think the plagiarism accusations it gets aren't good criticism.
Plagiarism in fantasy is inevitable because all the basic tropes were already established centuries ago and every since author since early modern times has aped what someone else already made. The difference between inspiration and plagiarism is putting your own spin on it.
Dragon Age rips ideas from Game of Thrones, Twitcher and Warhammer but it uses said ideas better than any of those three things. It manages political intrigue without every noble being cartoonishly evil like GoT, it's unfortunately liberal but never preachy about it like Twitcher and it's dark but not retardark like Warhammer.
At that point in time, there was only Twitcher 1 out, and it, being the best in the series, was far from preachy and liberal. Must I remind you that it was the collect-sex-cards-for-banging-chicks game?
Warhammer Fantasy is not retardark. Mayhap some wargame material suggests that, but definitely not the Role Play sourcebooks and campaigns. Neither is 40K for that matter, but this is not the right discussion for that. DAOs problem is, it lifted specific relationship between emotions, the otherworldly realm of swirling possibilities, daemons, magic and mages almost word for word from Warhammer. This is something more than using the same basic trope.
You might have a point with GoT. Never cared much about it, so can't compare and contrast the two satisfactorily. I'll tell you this tho: individually, Tywin Lannister >>> Loghain.
Warhammer Fantasy's pretty retardark though. It's not on the same level as 40k but it's close. The RPG books are what codified all the Warhammer worlds being a doomed struggle for chaos's entertainment and characters casually doing horribly evil and extremely stupid things for no real reason or gain. That doesn't happen in DAO.
Howe and Loghain seem that way at first but if you look into things they've both got reasonable motivations for being dickheads and sincerely plan on getting something good out of it for themselves and Ferelden. Warhammer villain motives are I Want To Kill People Because I'm Bad. You could say the same for the Archdemon but that's the demonic dragon and just one character. Every Warhammer villain is like that.
I don't know much about GoT's details but I know just about every villain is inbred and sex crazed, usually incestuously sex crazed, so I doubt anyone's better than Loghain, who if you talk to and read lore notes about realize has completely reasonable grievances but seriously underestimates the darkspawn. Crazy evil villains like GoT's and Warhammer's exist and aren't bad in and of themselves, but when every single antagonist is exactly the same it gets old.
2. There’s the story in one of the first books(before they started to be about Ciri) where Geralt ends up being kidnapped and beaten by elves, who then proceed to tell him a very sad story of their race and how they are superior to humans etc. In the end Witcher says that they all full of shit, no better than human and all gonna die. Later in the books when they get their own Israel/Madagascar elves still go on committing war crimes against Northern Kingdoms. Elves-Human conflict is not one sided, neither in books nor games. There’s always this lesser evil option. Also main villains are literal gay elves from outer planes.