Dragon's Dogma II - "They’re masterworks, all – you can’t go wrong"

[Reinhardt]

heroes still, don't denigrate their noble sacrifice

so you join my game - you are my pawn. stand still, dumb nigger! i don't need you right now.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

anyway the point still remains
the enemy AI and combat encounters are designed to deal with multiple threats

replacing pawns for other players in the co-op game mode, wouldn't break the game's fundamental design

 

[DJOGamer PT]

so you join my game - you are my pawn. stand still, dumb nigger! i don't need you right now.

bold of you to assume that if we played together you wouldn't be my bitch

 

[Reinhardt]

so you join my game - you are my pawn. stand still, dumb nigger! i don't need you right now.

bold of you to assume that if we played together you wouldn't be my bitch

we won't. i already see you can't follow simplest orders. my pawn is better.

 

[mediocrepoet]

The only reason against it, is the subjective "I don't like it" opinion

Yeah, that's the only reason.

Not that it requires resources that are then not available for other things fans actually want.

Not that there are a fuckton of games with the feature you're trying to shoe horn in here because God forbid a game is different from every other game on the market.

Do you actually read anything written in this thread that isn't by you?

so you join my game - you are my pawn. stand still, dumb nigger! i don't need you right now.

bold of you to assume that if we played together you wouldn't be my bitch

we won't. i already see you can't follow simplest orders. my pawn is better.

Throw him to the Brine. Or use sacrificial bolt and shoot a rabbit.

 

[Dadd]

bros imagine DD2 but with multiplayer

 

[Reinhardt]

bros imagine DD2 but with multiplayer

darkest dungeon 2 was shit. no amount of multiplayer would save it.

 

[deuxhero]

And now Capcom has added DRM to the 10 year old and single player only Resident Evil Revelations which cost 15+ FPS. The PC port of this will 100% be fucked.

 

[Zombra]

Wow, those two posts I disagreed with at the time sure are persuasive now for no reason.

Fucking counterargue then, stupid. So far you haven't SAID anything but "nuh uh, I'm right".

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Do you actually read anything written in this thread that isn't by you?

Do you?

Not that it requires resources that are then not available

at this point in time the game is most surely already completed (just in polishing phase), plus the REngine easily supports online multiplayer so let's not pretend like Capcom couldn't assign a couple of programmers to have that feature up and running in-game under a week

Not that there are a fuckton of games with the feature you're trying to shoe horn

I honestly can't think of a single ARPG with Co-Op that has the quality of DD combat and enemy design
So innumerable is a rather tenuous assement

Despite never addressing my reply, you're still reiterating the criticism that I already counter-argued.

 

[Suicidal]

Trickster actually seems like a class that would be more fun to play in actual co-op. The abilities are interesting but I don't think playing 2nd fiddle to your AI party for 50~ hours won't get boring. Sure you can herd trash mobs off a cliff but in most situations you'll probably be relying on pawns for damage.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Agree
But I'll remain open to the concept, as we'll only see the full extent of the Vocation's gameplay after launch

 

[mediocrepoet]

Do you actually read anything written in this thread that isn't by you?

Do you?

Ah I thought your points were stupid and refuted but anyway...

Not that it requires resources that are then not available

at this point in time the game is most surely already completed (just in polishing phase), plus the REngine easily supports online multiplayer so let's not pretend like Capcom couldn't assign a couple of programmers to have that feature up and running in-game under a week

Why would they though? They could instead assign those programmers to do other projects that have features in the design, instead of changing something that works and irking the people who have wanted a follow up for years instead of chasing some flavour of the month half ass add on.

You know what opportunity cost is, right?
How about a project expense budget?

Not that there are a fuckton of games with the feature you're trying to shoe horn

I honestly can't think of a single ARPG with Co-Op that has the quality of DD combat and enemy design
So innumerable is a rather tenuous assement

 
Ever notice how once you have to take latency and sync into account, systems become more simple and shitty in general? Ever wonder why that is? Maybe you should start.

Despite never addressing my reply, you're still reiterating the criticism that I already counter-argued.

Tl;Dr your arguments are shit and the changes you want suck balls.

 

[Zombra]

trickster stuff

Trickster actually seems like a class that would be more fun to play in actual co-op. The abilities are interesting but I don't think playing 2nd fiddle to your AI party for 50~ hours won't get boring. Sure you can herd trash mobs off a cliff but in most situations you'll probably be relying on pawns for damage.

Wow! I just watched the video and I'm in love. Prevailing through indirect means and managing enemy (and ally) AI looks like hella fun to me, way more interesting than building up a limit break. I experimented with a few classes in DD1 but plain old Fighter turned out to be my favorite - I liked the direct damage, sure; but more than that I enjoyed tanking to set up my pawns to do the real damage. I guess I like "pet master" classes and this is a fascinating take.

 

[Delterius]

the enemy AI and combat encounters are designed to deal with multiple threats

replacing pawns for other players in the co-op game mode, wouldn't break the game's fundamental design

This is true. There was, literally, an MMO based around the concept.

I'd argue however that there's value in the indirect shared experience where you hire the pawns of other people. And no, you can't have both. Every game needs a focus. Everyone who's played an MMO has seen old features and ways to engage with the content die off as devs add more convenient solutions. Moreover, Dragon's Dogma is an open world while other co-ops like these are instanced in nature.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Dragon's Dogma Online was a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) developed and published by Capcom for PlayStation 3, PlayStation 4 and Microsoft Windows in 2015; As of 2019, the servers have been shut down.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Why would they though?

Coop has been something universaly wished for since the very first game
And games with it tend to enjoy better sales on the long-term
Plus the game is pretty much finished, adding an optional coop mode would not necessiate a sacrifice of content - and this particular game mode would increase replay value
Even in case of budget being the primary reason agaisnt it, then they could slap it on with an update a few weeks/months after release

Ever notice how once you have to take latency and sync into account, systems become more simple and shitty in general?

Nigga, some of the most technically complex games out there are online multiplayer
There's nothing in DD that would require a dumbing down for online play - DDO is proof of that

Tl;Dr

"Coop would be bad because I said so and I don't like it"

 

[Delterius]

Coop has been something universaly wished for since the very first game

I'd say that a sequel to Dragon's Dogma is what qualifies for universaly wished for.

 

[Anonona]

DDO is proof of that

I actually got to play a bit of DDO when it was still online it also had some weird changes made to the combat system because it was an MMO. For example, there was this "anger" mechanic that forced you to climb the monster and use certain actions on it to be able to damage it, wich felt like a very artificial way to prolongue fights so a party of players just wouldnt melt the enemies. Also if I recall correctly you couldn't pick up and throw enemies, players or NPCs, probably to avoid griefing, but it really felt like an unnecessary and sad downgrade. You could play both with pawns and players. Crafting took real life time to complete and you had to assign pawns to it. So it did have to make some concensions for the multiplayer aspect sadly. Of course I think these changes were made because it was an MMO and probably DD2 wouldn't have many of them if it had multiplayer.

That said, I couldn't play much more because it worked like shit due to using a VPN to play (it was region locked), just enough to test the basic classes and the first maps. I'll said, even with some of the most questionable changes from DD1, it probably would have been one of the MMOs with the best action combat and I'm still confused as to why Capcom decided not to export it overseas. I'm okay with DD2 not having multiplayer, but i won't deny I would have liked it to have it as long as it didn't impact the quality of the game.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I'd argue however that there's value in the indirect shared experience where you hire the pawns of other people.

Of course
And this would still be present as I am not advocating removal of Pawns

And no, you can't have both.

I have to disagree
Elden Ring gets away with it rather well despite their not being primarly designed to accomodate an adventuring party like DD is
And it's not like everyone wants to engage with multiplayer all the time

Everyone who's played an MMO

But this isn't an MMO
It's not a game that after release will be constantly worked on and changed for years to come
So this concern doesn't apply here

Coop has been something universaly wished for since the very first game

I'd say that a sequel to Dragon's Dogma is what qualifies for universaly wished for.

No shit Captain Pedantic

 

[Delterius]

It's not a game that after release will be constantly worked on and changed for years to come

And it may be that the effort will be entirely focused on the single player experience. Which would be my personal preference.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

snip

Good post

But like you say, those changes those exist to accomodate the fundamental shift in game experience and dev priorities - because it's an MMO
For DD a coop mode would not change the fundamental design goal of the game

And it may be that the effort will be entirely focused on the single player experience. Which would be my personal preference.

Mine too

 

[Silverfish]

"party of heroes" as "arisen and his pawns".

Nah, that's gay. Multiple arisen is better. If I were some villager, I'd rather have 3-4 mythical heroes of legend trying to save my town instead of some slave race who only know four sentences.

Not that it requires resources that are then not available for other things fans actually want.

Why would I care what other fans want?

Do you actually read anything written in this thread that isn't by you?

I skim.

Fucking counterargue then, stupid. So far you haven't SAID anything but "nuh uh, I'm right".

My points are self-evident and don't require extensive argumentation.

 

[Delterius]

Mine too

Good thing we agree then. Let there be multiple expansions before a single manhour is diverted to maintaining multiplayer.

 

[Reinhardt]

If I were some villager

why would i care what some villager want?