Drova: Forsaken Kin - 2D action RPG inspired by Gothic series

[toro]

I think this game will end up with like 3k+ reviews but I don't think it will be able to keep the 96% positive ratio.

I think it will get even bigger, it's spreading really far thanks to Gothic fans absolutely loving it. But once more normies hear about it and try it, the negative reviews will quickly start appearing. I already saw people crying on steam that the game is awfully designed because impossible to kill enemies are placed in noob areas and your character doesnt deal any damage.

96% positive ration out of 2203 positive reviews atm

 

[Jinn]

Really glad they're going to add a higher difficulty mode. It's going to make a replay in the future much more attractive. And of course a day-one purchase of the DLC is a given for me.

While it's certainly not the main focus of Drova - the real focus of course being gameplay: exploration, progression, combat, emergent situations - I think they need to give extra attention to the quality of the writing and world-building. Again, the writing in Gothic was never stellar, but it fit the world and was consistent. Drova far too often employs modern-day slang, for example. And the dialogue writing is laughably bad at times in general, to the point where it takes me out of the experience. They need to ditch the *descriptive* texts too. It's just very clear whoever took on the writing role was completely ill-fit for the position and they need to either study up, or hire a real writer. That I'm harping on it is a bad sign, because I usually don't give a shit when the story and writing isn't the focus of a game.

Oh yeah, the laughing in the middle of dialogue is out of control too. I understand they were trying to convey emotion any way they could through the limited expressions available to their character models, but it's too much, and once again, jarring.

They need to add more stats and weapon types in future games too.

Probably about halfway through and these are my major gripes. Still love the game, and can't wait to see these guys improve at their craft and hope they have many more projects ahead of them.

 

[Shaki]

. Again, the writing in Gothic was never stellar, but it fit the world and was consistent.

First Gothic yeah, but Gothic 2, despite loving this game to death, was a fucking circus when it comes to the story and lore, and the DLC with the lulrandom pirates and ancient Aztec civilization hidden on Khorinis made it even worse. I would argue Drova wins here tbh

 

[Marat]

It's just very clear whoever took on the writing role was completely ill-fit for the position and they need to either study up, or hire a real writer.

Way too harsh of a judgement. I'd call it 'programmer writing' - unoffensive baseline where nothing stands out one way or another for most of the time. My gripe with it was a complete lack of personality, in both the MC and the NPCs. Gothic's story was, at its core, utterly rudimentary, but it was not only carried, but elevated by strong characterizations, writing and VA-wise.

Gothic 2, despite loving this game to death, was a fucking circus when it comes to the story and lore

Explain yourself.

 

[Jinn]

Way too harsh of a judgement. I'd call it 'programmer writing' - unoffensive baseline where nothing stands out one way or another for most of the time. My gripe with it was a complete lack of personality, in both the MC and the NPCs.

I really don't think my judgement is too harsh. You pretty much perfectly explained why the person was unfit to be writing, and why they should either hone that skill - perhaps with outside help - or hire on someone who has that skillset. The writing actively detracts from and draws me out of the experience, and I think a lot of people agree. It's not a deal breaker by any means, but it weakens everything by being the way it is. It often times feels like the text was written completely out of a sense of obligation that "because it's an RPG, it should be there, and there should be a dialogue tree." Instead of a true interest in creating characters. I get it, it was a small team and one or both of the programmers probably wrote it. It doesn't change the fact the the problem exists, and needs to be improved upon in their coming endeavors.

 

[ArchAngel]

I didn't mind the writing, it was OKish, especially for modern times. Kinda like Underrail where I also enjoyed the more "basic" writing, characters curse at you all the time in both games which fits the grim world they live in.

 

[Nikanuur]

it's a crime that slingshot doesnt get a legendary weapon tier. i like using them as a sidearm. they do pretty good poise damage thing

I think they've added a legendary sling with the latest patch.

EDIT: End of November...

 

[sser]

This game fucking rips. 100% captures the Gothic/Risen feel of being a worthless sack and then slowly building up. I'm already whirlwinding through areas that used to give me trouble and it's so satisfying.

No idea how to spend points, mostly did actual statups and lockpicking/fabrication. I spent 3pts in Swords but then I found a lady who teaches spear/sling, now I'm wondering if I should have gone that route. Or maybe I can pair swords with slings... I'm not sure if the shield has any actual use if you're not actively using it.

 

[Jinn]

No idea how to spend points, mostly did actual statups and lockpicking/fabrication.

Sadly, as I pointed out in an earlier post, the Prowess system makes a lot of your stat distribution somewhat inconsequential. Since equipment is gated behind a combined total of your three stats, you could pump Dexterity and Mind, and still use a high level two-handed axe with little to no Strength. Same goes for every talent I've seen so far. So really, all you have to consider is whether you want to save you points for specific talents or not. Beyond that, stat increases have small incremental benefits, but most of your power is going to be coming from equipment and skills. Those incremental boosts do add up in the long run though, you will be doing a fair amount extra physical damage later in the game if you focus on Strength for example.

Don't get me wrong. Progression is still satisfying and meaningful. It just would have been more so if your individual choices in point distribution had more weight to them in terms of what you can learn and what equipment you can use.

 

[Marat]

I mean... how different was investing in Strength to Dexterity in Gothic? System in Drova is already deeper than the one in Gothic and I'd say it is a step in the right direction.

 

[Jinn]

I mean... how different was investing in Strength to Dexterity in Gothic

Strength and Dexterity were directly tied to the particular weapons you could use, which was a massive part of progression. It's a minor change with the Prowess system, but it's big enough to notice how it detracts from the overall management of LP economy. On that note,

System in Drova is already deeper than the one in Gothic and I'd say it is a step in the right direction.

I don't see how it's any deeper. It's pretty much 1:1, except that training for talents doesn't cost money (from what I've seen) like it did in Gothic. This gives even less weight to your choices. Beyond that, combat abilities are the only thing that add more "depth," and they are a welcome addition, but largely a product of the top-down combat the game offers. I'm not, nor did I ever, sit here and try to portray Gothic's progression system as robust. But it was rewarding in its simplicity, and each choice mattered much more simply because it wasn't being pooled into a total progression pool (IE Prowess). The point I'm making is that they came up with Prowess in Drova so that people didn't feel punished for making certain choices without full knowledge of the game. I'm saying that punishing the player for making ill-informed decisions was something Gothic did well, in that you had to to pivot and compensate if you started putting points into something that didn't benefit your overall build. It gave weight to the few choices you had in how you built your character.

I'm basically saying they took a step backwards with the progression system in Drova, where I feel they should have been taking a step forward. I love the game, and this fact doesn't ruin it for me. It's just a reasonable critique and something I feel they could have handled better.

 

[Tyranicon]

I've been hearing about this game a lot and the comparisons to Gothic means I'll give it a spin at some point.

How's the writing?

Probably not a priority, and judging by the reviews it's at least servicable.

 

[Jinn]

How's the writing?

While it's certainly not the main focus of Drova - the real focus of course being gameplay: exploration, progression, combat, emergent situations - I think they need to give extra attention to the quality of the writing and world-building. Again, the writing in Gothic was never stellar, but it fit the world and was consistent. Drova far too often employs modern-day slang, for example. And the dialogue writing is laughably bad at times in general, to the point where it takes me out of the experience. They need to ditch the *descriptive* texts too. It's just very clear whoever took on the writing role was completely ill-fit for the position and they need to either study up, or hire a real writer. That I'm harping on it is a bad sign, because I usually don't give a shit when the story and writing isn't the focus of a game.

It's not offensive. It's simply mediocre, and too often draws me out of the game world. Something that needs to be improved upon.

 

[ArchAngel]

I mean... how different was investing in Strength to Dexterity in Gothic

Strength and Dexterity were directly tied to the particular weapons you could use, which was a massive part of progression. It's a minor change with the Prowess system, but it's big enough to notice how it detracts from the overall management of LP economy. On that note,

System in Drova is already deeper than the one in Gothic and I'd say it is a step in the right direction.

I don't see how it's any deeper. It's pretty much 1:1, except that training for talents doesn't cost money (from what I've seen) like it did in Gothic. This gives even less weight to your choices. Beyond that, combat abilities are the only thing that add more "depth," and they are a welcome addition, but largely a product of the top-down combat the game offers. I'm not, nor did I ever, sit here and try to portray Gothic's progression system as robust. But it was rewarding in its simplicity, and each choice mattered much more simply because it wasn't being pooled into a total progression pool (IE Prowess). The point I'm making is that they came up with Prowess in Drova so that people didn't feel punished for making certain choices without full knowledge of the game. I'm saying that punishing the player for making ill-informed decisions was something Gothic did well, in that you had to to pivot and compensate if you started putting points into something that didn't benefit your overall build. It gave weight to the few choices you had in how you built your character.

I'm basically saying they took a step backwards with the progression system in Drova, where I feel they should have been taking a step forward. I love the game, and this fact doesn't ruin it for me. It's just a reasonable critique and something I feel they could have handled better.

Training does cost some money. Some teaches will ask you to pay them first.

 

[Gandalf]

How's the writing?

Player can talk to animals and pet them.

 

[Jinn]

Training does cost some money. Some teaches will ask you to pay them first.

Yeah, a flat and generally small fee. It's not the same as it costing a significant amount each time you train. And there's a lot of cases where a trainer will train you without any cost too. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it makes training less of a serious choice. The economy starts to tip in the player's favor far too soon in Drova.

 

[Marat]

I don't see how it's any deeper.

Well, for starters you need to balance the respective bonuses from strength and dexterity investments against specificity of your chosen weapon - a dagger attacks faster so crit chance bonus is more meaningful than in the case of the axe. But the flat percentage dmg bonus from str will matter more on each strike from higher dmg weapons. Then you gotta factor in the interaction between that and the talisman effects - will you take advantage of a post-dodge +50% dmg or bank on the bleed dmg speed boost. Then you have focus to consider, whether you want to generate more and use more abilities synergistically with your weapon of choice and respective talismans or just go all-in on raw dmg. And then you have potions which you can pick for how you are planning to approach a difficult enemy, what traps to lay out to match their effect with your chosen special abilities.

I'm basically saying they took a step backwards with the progression system in Drova, where I feel they should have been taking a step forward.

I think they clearly didn't. Much like Gothic, Drova is simply reliant more on player actions than character stats and the game is simply not that hard so the above doesn't feel that meaningful.

 

[Jinn]

Well, for starters you need to balance the respective bonuses from strength and dexterity investments against specificity of your chosen weapon - a dagger attacks faster so crit chance bonus is more meaningful than in the case of the axe. But the flat percentage dmg bonus from str will matter more on each strike from higher dmg weapons. Then you gotta factor in the interaction between that and the talisman effects - will you take advantage of a post-dodge +50% dmg or bank on the bleed dmg speed boost. Then you have focus to consider, whether you want to generate more and use more abilities synergistically with your weapon of choice and respective talismans or just go all-in on raw dmg. And then you have potions which you can pick for how you are planning to approach a difficult enemy, what traps to lay out to match their effect with your chosen special abilities.

Yeah, this would all be great if it actually mattered. The game isn't difficult enough to warrant this autism. Also, this is all pretty much in Gothic already.

It's a good game, but it doesn't deserve to be sucked off. Hopefully the devs actually take a look at this thread and take note of the criticisms, and make something that surpasses their inspirations someday. We need more games like this in the world, but they need to be taken further.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

36 hours and I am done. This is a absolute must play. I was faced with quite a few difficulties. Some cool decision making too. I quite enjoyed the progression. I didn't once need to refer to anything outside the game to finish it which is something I feel a lot of games expect people to do. This game needs more attention. It's a real shame to see this get little to no fanfare. I didn't get bored and am good for another playthrough in a year or so. Looking forward to getting caught up on the thread now after having finished it.

It's getting some good fanfare, lots of reviews on Steam, overwhelmingly positive.

What cool decision making and difficulties are you referring to? The game is absolutely void of them

 

[Tyranicon]

Liking the game more than I expected, even after reading some of the good reviews.

It's also not like Gothic at all. I've spent 40 minutes in the game and haven't gotten my ass kicked in yet!

 

[Tyranicon]

It's a 2D pixel-art ARPG with, imo, not a super attractive art style.

The fact that it did so well with the number and quality of reviews is a testament to how well-made it is. And possibly how many people are nostalgic for Gothic.

Even Skald's thread only has 63 pages, and that's a game that appeals to core RPGcodex.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/suspicious-codex-establishment-behavior.151845/

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

The charm of SKALD in general, including graphics, got old really fast. But at least it had me thinking about it, unlike Drova.

 

[Tyranicon]

I feel the 2D looks good, moreso in motion than still screenshots. I never really gave much credence to its looks as being a major detractor. It is a bit disheartening to know that might be a reason to avoid. I figure if a game like Rimworld can succeed with the graphics it has, then any high quality game should be able to do the same.

How do you feel about Skalds art style? I do know that Skald was featured on the front page here numerous times. At this point, the lack of front page news about Drova feels more like a standoff.

Graphics is always 10000% going to be main attractor of a video game, and possibly decide entirely on its own how financially successful a game will be. There are games that look great but play like trash and insult your intelligence, and people will still slurp them down because that's just how it is.

The alternative is to build a seriously unique and extremely high-quality game, and even then it will only make up for a little in your deficient in graphics.

Rimworld is a great game made by probably a genius, in a tier of its own. You need to make games like Stardew Valley and Kenshi (both ugly imo) before you get to the stage where graphics don't matter.

Personally I find Skald's graphics hurtful to my eyes in a very literal sense, but that's not a fault of the art style (just too few pixels). As for why Drova's not mentioned in the news subforum, that's probably a question for the administration.

 

[ArchAngel]

It's getting some good fanfare, lots of reviews on Steam, overwhelmingly positive.

What cool decision making and difficulties are you referring to? The game is absolutely void of them

I figured this thread would be approaching 100 pages by now. No youtube recommends on my RPG account. No chan talk. Although I stayed away from reading this or reviews as I do for any new game I am going to play. Looking at the reviews now, 2300 is not a bad amount. I would imagine the game has sold well enough. I would expect more fanfare here at least. I found out about this game just stumbling across this thread post release.

I was talking about combat and how to approach it. I admit to running into some difficulties. I just honestly wasn't very good at combat until I was able to figure out what worked best for my playstyle.

It is not turn based. And still not nearly as good as Underrail so that is why.