Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[Darth Canoli]

P.S.S. Seriously - does anyone beat the game after that patch in 2016? )

I don't know, try fighting with a team?

Or reloading 2 billion times a fight like i can't remember who from AoD's thread...
You can do it with 0 points invested in weapons skills ...

 

[Fenix]

I don't know, try fighting with a team?

I won with 6 Cha, with 8, with 10 too. There is no point to repeat that.
There is a point to try to win solo - I won with daggers on releae, but I can't manage to do it now - I mean, excluding massaging F6-F9 button.

 

[Technomancer]

First run. Solo dodge feels difficult, thought my build so clever, I'm gonna just interrupt everyone to death and dodge everything. Oh yeah? Fuck. You. DR has different balance from AoD. Balanced for party play so goons have much higher stats and accuracy. And you don't get training bonuses to boost your performance. As a result, end game dodge is very unreliable, you just get hit too often. This is as far as I could go, practically impossible to win.

Think going with spears was a fatal mistake. Should've picked either throwing (huge damage and don't have to burn AP moving so much) or swords (free damage from bleeds and two handed one gives extra 5% dodge counter attack chance).

 

[razvedchiki]

i made a similar build but i had 5 con/6 int and 10 per, as a solo spear you really need to have the interrupts hit.

 

[agris]

Solo DR is a thing of beauty, we were lucky to get this game at all. Hope CS brings Iron Tower a windfall.

 

[Ihavenoidea]

Solo dodge spear was def doable at bastard (unsure about psychopath as i usually go for bastard), but i agree that 10 int and gimped per would make some fights if not unwinnable then very hard to win.

 

[†††]

Solo dodge builds were very doable until solo play was nerfed in an attempt to make normal party playthroughs harder. You're in for an exercise in frustration if you attempt solo+dodge, no matter the weapon/stats/skills. Hoarding alchemy ingredients for the last fights is your best choice.

 

[Technomancer]

Solo dodge builds were very doable until solo play was nerfed in an attempt to make normal party playthroughs harder.

So it did happen, huh? Played enough of AoD to feel it.

no matter the weapon/stats/skills

Think I could do it with 8 in throw instead. Dice the archers and then just run around kiting crap with 5 turn 11 poison. Shield guys might take a while. Still have two shrapnel bombs.

Hoarding alchemy ingredients for the last fights is your best choice.

Had to burn them them all to get to the jar machine (those robots were busted) and Emperor fight. Read that it gets easier after that. Bullshit.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Solo dodge builds were very doable until solo play was nerfed in an attempt to make normal party playthroughs harder.

So it did happen, huh? Played enough of AoD to feel it.

Didn't. The game was released on Nov 4 and got two updates (Nov 20 and Dec 23), making the game a bit easier. We haven't touched it since.

 

[Technomancer]

Didn't. The game was released on Nov 4 and got two updates (Nov 20 and Dec 23), making the game a bit easier. We haven't touched it since.

Must be missing training then, like I thought originally. In AoD my endgame dodge build grabbed everything. 2 separate dodge trainings from IG, Dellar, even traded 2 HP for 5 dodge with Esbenus. It all adds up.

And here I'm not only missing all of that but also have a slight defense malus from armor because I couldn't get to 10 crafting despite clearing all floors with 10 INT.

 

[agris]

Technomancer some old solo spear build advice:

I finished my 2nd play through of DR, this time solo/hard. It's been years since I've beaten a game twice back-to-back.

Used a spear dodger 6(9)/10/9/9/4/2. Trident was by far the most useful weapon, followed by the hasta.

I kept spear and dodge at R9 until after the emperor, and alchemy at 4 which let me hit 10 crafting just after the enforcer fight. I was worried I wouldn't gain SP fast enough to get much use out of 10 crafting, but I did. It wasn't very hard this time around, easier than playing with a party of 4. Sometimes the strategies are counter-intuitive to me, like charging the crossbowmen in the molerat fight where you have 4 xbows on your flanks, and a heavy armored hammer guy in the center. The fights were you couldn't pull back were definitely the hardest, and I don't think I could have beaten the three worm encounter guarding the crafting chest the first go-around. I had to wait and take it from the other side.

I'll probably play DR again, but only after the final patch. Same for AoD.


edit: for anyone else under the same misconception as me, you can use the glowing jars to raise STR/DEX/CON any number of times up to 10, you aren't limited to just +1 per ability. I don't know why I thought that, but my killing power went through the roof when I went from 6 to 9 STR.

 

[Technomancer]

Technomancer some old solo spear build advice:

9 con is easy, I specifically went 10 INT cos I wanted challenge and people used it as a dump stat. Con also buffs dodge slightly. I would rather do 4 con, but had to take 6 because of the scorp jar. Would be trivial if I dumped INT, I wouldn't be satisfied tho.

 

[Technomancer]

practically impossible to win

Had to burn through everything I had left but I did it. Really hoped to get crafting to max but I just didn't have enough. End wave was unnecessary difficult as a result, would be so much better with meteorite spear. Don't know what I could do differently on this build. Only not investing in spears to raise them from 6 to 7, that way I would have enough to get crafting to 10. But damn robots were too dodgy to progress without it.

Still think dodge balancing is out of wack. Tested new game some, fucking ants hit me way too often on 9 dodge. And since they only hit legs, one landed hit means you are fucked (leg hit sets dodge even lower). And I fought in cloth, so no penalty.

Final stats:

 

[agentorange]

finally seriously trying to finish this on murderous psychopath after many failed attempts.

one main question, as a dodge build is there any point to wearing any armor that will give armor penalties, or is it best to simply maximize dodge chance by wearing the basic cloth. i remember wearing light leather armors when playing dodge builds in AoD but of course that game didn't require nearly as much min/maxing (relatively speaking).

 

[Technomancer]

End wave was unnecessary difficult as a result

Lol. Just found out I missed the whole portal area and fight with two blue steel guys. As well as alchemical resources and bolas (didn't use) found in the rooms. This time I had enough to raise crafting to 10 and build meteorite shit. Was so much easier, so easy in fact that had enough stuff to spare for three fights more after final one.

Final-final stats on 10 INT solo doing every fight:

 

[Technomancer]

as a dodge build is there any point to wearing any armor that will give armor penalties, or is it best to simply maximize dodge chance by wearing the basic cloth. i remember wearing light leather armors when playing dodge builds in AoD

With 10 crafting unlike AoD's manica, this time best no dodge penalty armor is this:

 

[†††]

one main question, as a dodge build is there any point to wearing any armor that will give armor penalties, or is it best to simply maximize dodge chance by wearing the basic cloth. i remember wearing light leather armors when playing dodge builds in AoD but of course that game didn't require nearly as much min/maxing (relatively speaking).

Given the way the game is balanced, it's better to compromise and have a good armor despite the penalties. In AoD the enemies have worse accuracy, making light armor viable and balanced. In DR you'll get hit no matter your attempts to try to minimize penalties. That's not to say you should simply wear the heaviest armor and call it a day, but something between 8-15 armor penalty won't bog you down that much and it will provide much better protection when being hit. Another issue to keep in mind is that light armors have terrible critical strike protection and you really want to avoid getting crit'd to death which happens often in the late game.

 

[agentorange]

as a dodge build is there any point to wearing any armor that will give armor penalties, or is it best to simply maximize dodge chance by wearing the basic cloth. i remember wearing light leather armors when playing dodge builds in AoD

With 10 crafting unlike AoD's manica, this time best no dodge penalty armor is this:

how do you manage to get 10 crafting. do you use Hieron?

 

[Technomancer]

how do you manage to get 10 crafting. do you use Hieron?

Solo 10 INT.

Spoiler

Not recommended.

But yeah, could be done on Hieronymus but it's a pain to level him. I tried it on an MC who could only have one companion. Was very painful because I didn't invest in any skill on Hieronymus but crafting to ditch him as soon as possible. With his terrible health it took forever to level him and was very unpleasant. It took every fight since first recruiting him and until Scaurus to level him up to 10 crafting. Heaviest armor is a must. Think I only changed him for Marcus for one fight where it was impossible to win with him.

 

[Fenix]

But damn robots were too dodgy to progress without it.

Yeah - how did you geth through them? They raped my @'s ass.
Was it Ironman at all?

ld only have one companion. Was very painful because I didn't invest in any skill on Hieronymus but crafting to ditch him as soon as possible. With his terrible health it took forever to level him and was very unpleasant.

I did that too at IM, heh. Pain.

 

[Technomancer]

Was it Ironman at all?

Fuck no!

Had to use alch10 eagle eye potion on first ones. And a bomb I believe, don't remember frag or fire. Second (optional) group on a path that leads to unavailable robot companion, I did without potions, only a bomb.

On crap above I started burning my fire vials. On optional one that leads to the stat machine I used literally everything to kill that crossbow fuck. Like 6 or 7 vials in that fight alone. Killed two meteorite ones with burning fire and pre-war bomb, the rest to kill than horrible thing.

 

[agentorange]

finally killed democritus. fight went fairly well, he didnt damage or break any of my armors which i was worried about. multiple times i tried luring him back to the crate funnel in the previous area, and it worked out well a few times but one of my characters would always end up getting killed near the end. this time i killed him i only drew him partway into the tunnel. used two fire pots at the beginning of the fight to keep from being entangled in nets by the enemies on the sides of the room as i retreated. i was also fighting with only three real party members because im trying raise hieron's crafting skill so all his other skills are gimped and he will die immediately, so i had him run back to the previous area and hide at the start of the fight.

anyway furthest i have made it in the game, hopefully this time i can finish it

 

[Alphons]

Another hammer bro

 

[agentorange]

Since I am getting worried I won't be able to complete the game because of lack healing I watched a video to see how many fights are left to see if I can start using my alchemy supplies now, and in one of the videos there are alchemy ingredients in front of the Emperor room, but those are gone in my game. I'm assuming some patch removed those? So I have to get through 3 - 5 robot fights without any healing items then go into the Emperor boss fight with no healing (I didn't think I was being that liberal with healing items either, I never entered a fight with full hp. I probably fucked up by using healing resources on Hieron and Ismail since I wasn't using them for combat).

Also it seems like every single viable tactic against the robots was removed from the game. I see people doing stuff like aiming for the robots heads for massive damage, but the robots now have head armor, and also I don't seem to even have the option to aim for heads on any of my crossbows. The tactic of closing the door is also not nearly as effective now for various reasons.



In this video he closes the door and the first enemies to move are the enemy robot crossbowmen. Then the melee. So he is able to bait all the enemies into bunching up at the door. However in my game the first enemies that move are the melee robots, so they arrive at the door before the crossbow robots can get close, opening the door and preventing it from being closed again. So was this enemy turn order changed as well?

Aside from my complaining, I did find an actual bug. The robot crossbowman was able to shoot Roxana through the corner of the wall even with the door closed. Vault Dweller

The fighter will move before the alchemist and engage your dude, alchemist won't bomb his own and will try to move closer to your party - if your guy trigger an AoO alchemist won't have AP to bomb - then you block him with melee by moving your guy.

Other than the robot fights, going through the thread people also mention tactics like this, but in my experience all the bomb wielding enemies were perfectly happy to bomb their own people if it meant also damaging my guys. So none of the strategies of standing near enemies to avoid getting bombed worked (only available tactic seemed to be to nuke them on first turn, or get them to bug out and throw a bomb into a wall). Was this AI behavior also changed at some point.

 

[Parabalus]

Other than the robot fights, going through the thread people also mention tactics like this, but in my experience all the bomb wielding enemies were perfectly happy to bomb their own people if it meant also damaging my guys. So none of the strategies of standing near enemies to avoid getting bombed worked (only available tactic seemed to be to nuke them on first turn, or get them to bug out and throw a bomb into a wall). Was this AI behavior also changed at some point.

AI behaviour and stats definitely changed a lot with patches.

Generally all the patches increased difficulty, if you try the release version you will breeze through solo.

Not sure whether this bomb stuff for the Reinhardt fight would still work, I remember it being a bit finicky.