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Eador Genesis

Emily

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Minotaur's are natural units that you can recruit in labyrinth.
Attacking other masters is possible as soon as you get the chance, but it is a bit harder and not required...
Wizard is the strongest class but it requires the most knowledge of the game to make it work, you should avoid it until you get better. He is not strictly late game, as he can be used very effectively early game, with certain key spells and debuffs. Try using swordsman and cast magic weapon and armor on him, and using astral energy.
Commander is probably the easiest class to play, just make sure you have healers.
 

Raghar

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Wizard means very slow start. Also expect to have nearly no gems surplus.

It's perfectly stable on my PC. (After I changed RAM from quad channel to dual channel. Looks like I have some problem with CPU memory controller, or MB dislike 1.35 V RAM.)
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
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Messages
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Minotaur's are natural units that you can recruit in labyrinth..
Is it random or I need a certain skill or something? I've only got to fight them and get some loot there. I know how to recruit faeries and dryads in forests, is this similar?

I'm usually playing warrior then scout (or the other way around, depends on map), then upgrade them to holy knight and ringleader for more unit slots and class bonuses. Base commanders are good, but they're a little boring IMO, so I usually don't use them.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest

Dr Skeleton

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Messages
811
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Thanks, I am having fun. The game started pretty bland (the tutorial is bad, but the transition into the campaign is brilliant), but after a few hours I was completely hooked. Loving the weird random events and little touches like diplomacy especially.

Thanks for the link, some nice resources there.

I'm thinking about starting again on expert. Competent was very hard at first, but once I got some some experience I almost never lose a shard unless I get screwed in the early game.

One more thing, is it possible to win a shard without eliminating all enemies if I have a good relation with other masters? Recently I was on a small shard (we all met within ~10 turns) with 2 masters I'm in good relations with and I had to declare war on them and I don't know if that affects the relations in the astral somehow.
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
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Commander is probably the easiest class to play, just make sure you have healers.
I don't know, in my limited experience he's the toughest class to start with. I find rangers to be the best starting class (sniping out neutrals is very efficient), Wizards too if you start in a swamp. Fighters are the perfect second or third hero, when you have some pimped out gear ready, used for cleaning out lairs and enemy province guards.

One more thing, is it possible to win a shard without eliminating all enemies if I have a good relation with other masters? Recently I was on a small shard (we all met within ~10 turns) with 2 masters I'm in good relations with and I had to declare war on them and I don't know if that affects the relations in the astral somehow.
No.


If you have problems with powerful guardians of enemy capitals, strategy I found works best is: conquer all surrounding provinces, build forts in each of them so they won't be able to take them back, and take your time grinding your heroes on lairs nearby. If any of your fort gets sieged, just move your hero there to help. With a few more levels, some pimpin' artifacts and a spell scroll or two attacking the cap with all your heroes should be enough to wear down the defences.
 

Dr Skeleton

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Messages
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If you have problems with powerful guardians of enemy capitals, strategy I found works best is: conquer all surrounding provinces, build forts in each of them so they won't be able to take them back, and take your time grinding your heroes on lairs nearby. If any of your fort gets sieged, just move your hero there to help. With a few more levels, some pimpin' artifacts and a spell scroll or two attacking the cap with all your heroes should be enough to wear down the defences.
That's what I did. Grind, cast some nasty ritual on the enemy (didn't help much), attack with secondary hero, die horribly, attack with main hero, win. Still, it was tedious and a real wtf moment for me, I just got my first tier2 units buildings. Maybe I shouldn't complain though, I won one battle thanks to minotaurs contract placed at the last moment while I was getting to the enemy stronghold.
 

Dr Skeleton

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Messages
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I have something like 10 shards now and other than generic local lords I think all enemies I encounter are at master.
 

gunman

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How many heroes should I have? I usually get a second one around turn 10-20 and end there. I see AI having 3-4 somehow, but I can only support 2 most of the time, by the time I can get a third either the game is already over or I have no way of leveling up the new guy and he's useless anyway.

How can you afford a second hero so soon? I usually hire my second hero around turn 80-90 when I have much more than 500 gold in reserve and enough income to support a second army and immediately hire a powerful guard in case an enemy appears unexpectedly.
By turn 10 I don't see how you can afford two heroes + armies and build necessary buildings in the stronghold even if you plunder ancient crypts & stuff every turn.
 

gunman

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Dr Skeleton
Start playing on Expert, it's the 'default' difficulty that the game was balanced around. The gameplay on lower difficulties is very different (and worse, imo) - more of an RPG and less of a strategy (though YMMV).

The difference between Competent and Expert is that on the later difficulty it is harder to break through neutrals and you have less income which result in a more difficult start. The AI still cheats with free stuff (guards, alliances etc) on all levels. On Expert I don't like the fact that you are forced to use a "recipe" (like using barbarians and certain spells) to guarantee success early on. Playing on Competent is more flexible (or RPG-ish as you put it).

Also getting a Tactician reward on Expert or greater is a bit problematic... :)

Also the score includes the difficulty modifier. What's the difference in winning on Expert with 5 reversions and winning on Competent with no reversions and Strategist reward if the score will be the same? Not to mention that in a game where scenarios can be very long (even average maps can take many hours to complete), a single mis-click as you lose focus during a battle can guarantee a loss.
 
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Raghar

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Are you crazy? The question is: should you hire a second hero before crystal, or after? If you will not hire second hero relatively fast, you'd run out of locations to conquer fast. (Or have only these locations with 3 medusas, which are what can kill any non archer low level hero fast. Archers too, when they wouldn't have luck with high end weapon and sufficient resistance.)
 

gunman

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Are you crazy? The question is: should you hire a second hero before crystal, or after? If you will not hire second hero relatively fast, you'd run out of locations to conquer fast. (Or have only these locations with 3 medusas, which are what can kill any non archer low level hero fast. Archers too, when they wouldn't have luck with high end weapon and sufficient resistance.)

So you keep the second hero only for exploring to reveal locations? Without army?
 

Raghar

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A warrior is an army of one.

I try to let them have 3 barbs, but that depends on the economy. The problem is 3 barbs will not stop high level robbers attack with thugs and assassins. But when you can massacre a low level attack, you can get sweet money and items. When you can be sure that enemy can't get to you fast on huge shards, third hero early as long as you will not ruin your economy, would be nice as well.

Of course, it also depends on strategy the main hero can use to break into second ring. When experience is somewhat shared, the main hero would be weaker a little, but considering he shouldn't attack too weak locations when he's powerful, it's not that horrible. Third ring is actually fine.
 

gunman

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I will try to hire another hero faster for exploring early on.
My main concern is that second hero + some troops will drain funds quickly and can be unlucky in finding good sites to cover the expenses. With the same money a single hero can take the outer ring and put the balance in the positive (and find there other locations to loot right from the start).
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
811
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
How many heroes should I have? I usually get a second one around turn 10-20 and end there. I see AI having 3-4 somehow, but I can only support 2 most of the time, by the time I can get a third either the game is already over or I have no way of leveling up the new guy and he's useless anyway.

How can you afford a second hero so soon? I usually hire my second hero around turn 80-90 when I have much more than 500 gold in reserve and enough income to support a second army and immediately hire a powerful guard in case an enemy appears unexpectedly.
By turn 10 I don't see how you can afford two heroes + armies and build necessary buildings in the stronghold even if you plunder ancient crypts & stuff every turn.
I used to play with only one hero (or get the 2nd very late), but it's just not enough against more difficult enemies. And, yeah, even if you can't afford troops just explore the provinces for a couple of turns, you can find free caches, get locations like the halfling village or valley that increase your gold income or just find stuff for later. Usually the early 2nd hero pays back its cost FAST. Worst thing that can happen is that you run into bandits, but it's worth the risk.
I usually build only the swordsmen building and the quest crystal (plus the requirements for them) before getting the second hero. Scout+2-3 swordsmen can mop up 95% of early neutrals each turn with no loses. If you're lucky and get goblins or skeletons you can complete the easy quest from the crystal in a couple of turns and get the gold from there. You can get hundreds of $ from random events too. I don't start building mines/mills before getting the second hero either. Turn 10 is very optimistic, but I aim for 10-20, 30 at worst, I feel very constricted with 2 heroes (especially if the enemy shows up early), can't imagine playing with just one anymore.
 

gunman

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I am currently playing on an average map against two opponents and I have hired a second hero early. I have very difficult outer rings around my home province and I had to revert several times and resurrect heroes (riots in swamp provinces with a troll or couple of medusas & a lot of tier 2 monsters right near my home province). I hardly managed to break three provinces away after turn 100 and no sign of opponents yet (probably they are stumped too). I feel I would have broken through earlier with only one hero with a complete army.

Scout+2-3 swordsmen can mop up 95% of early neutrals each turn with no loses.
How can you keep going without a healer? Skeletons and goblins can hurt badly a level 0 swordsman and attacking in the next turn without rest or healer means the risk of losing them if they are targeted again. They recover hitpoints extremely slow on their own.
 

Dr Skeleton

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Messages
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
How can you keep going without a healer? Skeletons and goblins can hurt badly a level 0 swordsman and attacking in the next turn without rest or healer means the risk of losing them if they are targeted again. They recover hitpoints extremely slow on their own.
Try positioning so that they can't all attack the same guy on one turn and swordsmen can deflect most tier 1 units with minimum damage thanks to high defense and parry. Most shooters can only do 0-1 damage to them, so don't attack, take a good position and let them come to you (if you're playing a scout he should soften them up a lot before the fight). Start with the easier fights (militias, goblins) to level up, take +2 parry on swordsmen if you can. If you have a wounded unit position it so that it doesn't get attacked in the first clash and use it to finish enemies. I do take a healer once I can, but you can do without them for some time. Use your starting militia or sllingers as damage bait if necessary. It works pretty well for me on competent, I'm yet to try it on expert, the only tier 1 units that can really hurt this composition are barbarians (fast, high damage) + shamans (magic strike), but again, scout can take out the shaman before he does too much, imps (fast, magic strike and there's often a lot of them) and elves (don't show up too much and are usually optional). You can use pikemen too, but I prefer swordsmen because of parry and higher defense.

I am currently playing on an average map against two opponents and I have hired a second hero early. I have very difficult outer rings around my home province and I had to revert several times and resurrect heroes (riots in swamp provinces with a troll or couple of medusas & a lot of tier 2 monsters right near my home province). I hardly managed to break three provinces away after turn 100 and no sign of opponents yet (probably they are stumped too). I feel I would have broken through earlier with only one hero with a complete army.
Yeah, early difficult provinces + swamps (low gold income) are very tough for me, especially if there's no iron too, if I lose that's the scenario 90% of the time. If you have nomads or a human province you can try diplomacy and see if there's anything easier/more interesting further, I once had an outer ring with almost nothing but ~10 units with 2 assassins/slugs and once I broke out there were multiple provinces with militias and barons along the edge of the map.
 

gunman

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Can we see a screenshot?

I have just finished the map. The end was quite easy but the beginning was a bitch due to the difficulty of rings. The inner ring around my home was doable but the second ring contain many units + one or two tier 2 in each one of them. To make the things worse, I was surrounded with goblin lands and barbarians, so one of my provinces in the inner ring was invaded with tier 2 units. Another one rebelled and I defeated them, but each time they rebelled they came back with even more ridiculous units until I couldn't do anything about it (goblins + basilisks, then with medusas etc).

The good thing was that enemy players couldn't break far from their starting points too when I have found them. They had level 10-12 heroes though.
 

gunman

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How can you keep going without a healer? Skeletons and goblins can hurt badly a level 0 swordsman and attacking in the next turn without rest or healer means the risk of losing them if they are targeted again. They recover hitpoints extremely slow on their own.
Try positioning so that they can't all attack the same guy on one turn and swordsmen can deflect most tier 1 units with minimum damage thanks to high defense and parry. Most shooters can only do 0-1 damage to them, so don't attack, take a good position and let them come to you (if you're playing a scout he should soften them up a lot before the fight). Start with the easier fights (militias, goblins) to level up, take +2 parry on swordsmen if you can. If you have a wounded unit position it so that it doesn't get attacked in the first clash and use it to finish enemies. I do take a healer once I can, but you can do without them for some time. Use your starting militia or sllingers as damage bait if necessary. It works pretty well for me on competent, I'm yet to try it on expert, the only tier 1 units that can really hurt this composition are barbarians (fast, high damage) + shamans (magic strike), but again, scout can take out the shaman before he does too much, imps (fast, magic strike and there's often a lot of them) and elves (don't show up too much and are usually optional). You can use pikemen too, but I prefer swordsmen because of parry and higher defense.

Yes, I use swordsmen too and I know of their advantages. However positioning to make the enemy attack only the units you want works for small and slow mobs. If you attack a gang of 5-6 units with movement of 2 they can reach any of your units no matter how carefully you position. And goblins and undead often comes in group of 6 in my starting province.

Because of this, the first 5-6 turns I wait checking different locations, and then I recruit 2 swordsman + 1 healer at once and start to clear the previously checked locations. If I recruit the two swordsman from the 2nd turn and have no luck finding easy sites, I may go bankrupt before I can afford to buy the healer.
 
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gunman

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Started another shard in the campaign, and this time the home province was rich and the outer ring easy. I could hire the second hero with two support units around turn 20-21. I could have hired him earlier if I could find goblins to complete the crystal quest, but I couldn't find goblin sites until later.

So it seems it all depends largely on the starting location. If it's swamp surrounded by barbarian tribes and goblin lands any plan can be difficult to follow.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Started another shard in the campaign, and this time the home province was rich and the outer ring easy. I could hire the second hero with two support units around turn 20-21. I could have hired him earlier if I could find goblins to complete the crystal quest, but I couldn't find goblin sites until later.

So it seems it all depends largely on the starting location. If it's swamp surrounded by barbarian tribes and goblin lands any plan can be difficult to follow.

I all depends, really. Swamps are better for starting with a Wizard, Plains - the Ranger/Commander, the Warrior doesn't care either way (he doesn't need real troops, just cannon fodder so he can grab all the XP).

If you're really short on money try plundering your starting province.
 

Raghar

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Name: Beginner;
Start gold: 1000
Start gem: 100
Gold income add: 15
Gem income add: 5
Population: 1100
Exp mod: 80
Loot mod: 110
Neutral HP: 55
Corruption start: 18
Corruption max: 60
Hero advice: 1
Score: 25

/1
Name: Skilled;
Start gold: 500
Start gem: 20
Gold income add: 0
Gem income add: 0
Population: 10
Exp mod: 90
Loot mod: 100
Neutral HP: 85
Corruption start: 16
Corruption max: 66
Hero advice: 1
Score: 100

/2
Name: Competent;
Start gold: 500
Start gem: 20
Gold income add: 0
Gem income add: 0
Population: 10
Exp mod: 100
Loot mod: 90
Neutral HP: 95
Corruption start: 14
Corruption max: 72
Hero advice: 0
Score: 150

/3
Name: Expert;
Start gold: 500
Start gem: 20
Gold income add: 0
Gem income add: 0
Population: 10
Exp mod: 110
Loot mod: 80
Neutral HP: 100
Corruption start: 12
Corruption max: 78
Hero advice: 0
Score: 175
Actually this is how I modded difficulty for lower difficulties. These bonus gp/turn would teach you bad habits. And these MUCH lower HP of neutrals would make the game qualitatively different.
 

gunman

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I'm fine with playing the campaign on Competent. I'm also restricting myself from using certain stuff like plunder province, evil units, evil spells, so this would make the game even harder on Expert or higher.
 

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