From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[cvv]

Loved the Rennala fight. Seems FS rediscovered their long lost art of creating good gimmicky boss fights. Great looks, great vibe, doesn't involve something resembling a kitchen blender with infinite stamina, a fantastic change of pace.

The entire Academy is another bulls-eye for FromSoft, so far all the legacy dungeons are an absolute treat for level design whores like me.

 

[Jermu]

Finally won vs Radahn took around 30 tries. I still think that his magic in phase 2 is bullshit otherwise liked the fight

 

[Nathir]

Guys, a little help?

I am doing Raya Lucaria, I got several bonfires, killed the orange doggo, looped up and around the rooftops and kicked a ladder down but that just brought me back to above the Church of the Cuckoo bonfire.

I have no idea where to go now, and I've been looking around for about an hour...

do you have debate parlor bonfire?

That's where you kill the red doggo, yes, I do have it. However, only openings I saw were outside to the courtyard with the iron maiden hook-axe chariot and back to the stairs with the mages where you access the boss.

When you come out into the courtyard there is a broken staircase to your right. You can acess it by jumping on a rafter connecting the staircase and the courtyard. It's funny you say this, my brother also said he was looking around for like an hour before he figured this out lol.

Isn't that like the first thing you see when you go out of the Debate Parlor? Really curious that people are missing it.

Anyway, Raya Lucaria is so amazing and the whole rooftops stuff is so intricate that I'm sure I missed some important item there.

Yeah, I was surprised too. The moment I saw that rafter I thought, surely you can jump here.

 

[Silva]

I meant any of the well-known, widely-agreed upon flaws of the previous games

Bosses with infinite combos is an agreed upon flaw.

it.

Horse that controls like a top-down shooter that obviates exploration (and some nemies), sterile open-world, copy-pasta dungeons, videogamey AI, teleport anytime anywhere, infinite combo bosses, DS3 mindless weight thresholds, derivative lore and unplausible world that resembles my old D&D GM lazily scratching something in 5 minutes for our Sunday game ("Damn I forgot the demographics and where those inhabitants actually live! OK, let's say their settlements were all coastal and dragged by the ocean, how about that!?")

P. all of that is "it's just, like, your opinion man". Game is bad because is boring and bad. 'K.

And by "any of the flaws" I didn't mean ER is perfect. Nothing is.

I meant any of the well-known, widely-agreed upon flaws of the previous games, not your "videogamey AI, unplausible world, bad exploration" individual gripes (I disagree with all of them except the teleporting from aynwhere thing, that's indeed a major problem and decline; I've complained about it ITT already btw).

I guess this depends on how each person see From's distinguishing features. If one only looks for gameplay, I can see how Elden Ring can be judged in a very positive light, warts and all.

But for those who look for that enthralling atmosphere and feeling of entering an exotic, yet believable, world like DeS, DS1 or Bloobdorne did, Elden Ring is a disappointment, even with Legacy dungeons hitting those notes now and then.

 

[hackncrazy]

I meant any of the well-known, widely-agreed upon flaws of the previous games

Bosses with infinite combos is an agreed upon flaw.

it.

Horse that controls like a top-down shooter that obviates exploration (and some nemies), sterile open-world, copy-pasta dungeons, videogamey AI, teleport anytime anywhere, infinite combo bosses, DS3 mindless weight thresholds, derivative lore and unplausible world that resembles my old D&D GM lazily scratching something in 5 minutes for our Sunday game ("Damn I forgot the demographics and where those inhabitants actually live! OK, let's say their settlements were all coastal and dragged by the ocean, how about that!?")

P. all of that is "it's just, like, your opinion man". Game is bad because is boring and bad. 'K.

And by "any of the flaws" I didn't mean ER is perfect. Nothing is.

I meant any of the well-known, widely-agreed upon flaws of the previous games, not your "videogamey AI, unplausible world, bad exploration" individual gripes (I disagree with all of them except the teleporting from aynwhere thing, that's indeed a major problem and decline; I've complained about it ITT already btw).

I guess this depends on how each person see From's distinguishing feature. If one only looks for gameplay, I can see how Elden Ring can be judged in a very positive light, warts and all.

But for those who look for that enthralling atmosphere and feeling of entering an exotic, yet believable, world like DeS, DS1 or Bloobdorne did, Elden Ring is a disappointment, even with Legacy dungeons hitting those notes now and then.

I think you hit the point exactly with this. For gameplay whores like me, ER is a delight, and since I love the infinite stamina bosses and such (even more because after you learn the patterns it becomes a dance with the boss), the game really hits home for me.

But on the other point, I really don't feel like the game is a disappointment in his world building. There are really varied regions out there, like the decaying Caelid, the Swamps of Aeonia, all the area surrounding Raya Lucaria. One simple location that I don't see a lot of people mentioning is Stormhill. I think it's a really well done and atmospheric place.

And of course, when we talk about Legacy Dungeons, I really feel like their level design is on par if not better than the greatest stuff FS made so far.

 

[Wunderbar]

Guys, a little help?

I am doing Raya Lucaria, I got several bonfires, killed the orange doggo, looped up and around the rooftops and kicked a ladder down but that just brought me back to above the Church of the Cuckoo bonfire.

I have no idea where to go now, and I've been looking around for about an hour...

do you have debate parlor bonfire?

That's where you kill the red doggo, yes, I do have it. However, only openings I saw were outside to the courtyard with the iron maiden hook-axe chariot and back to the stairs with the mages where you access the boss.

When you come out into the courtyard there is a broken staircase to your right. You can acess it by jumping on a rafter connecting the staircase and the courtyard. It's funny you say this, my brother also said he was looking around for like an hour before he figured this out lol.

Isn't that like the first thing you see when you go out of the Debate Parlor? Really curious that people are missing it.

I too was running around like a retard for an hour before figuring this out.
There's a rolling ball indiana jones trap, so I assumed that the player was supposed to find another way and disable the trap before trying to climb those stairs.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

yet believable, world like DeS, DS1 or Bloobdorne did

How exactly are these believable where ER wouldn't be? I'd say Souls games always exhibit a dream/myth/fairytale-like vibe akin to for example E.Y.E., Pathologic, Killer 7 etc. Sekiro is sort of an exeption but not all that much.

 

[Silva]

yet believable, world like DeS, DS1 or Bloobdorne did

How exactly are these believable where ER wouldn't be? I'd say Souls games always exhibit a dream/myth/fairytale-like vibe akin to for example E.Y.E., Pathologic, Killer 7 etc. Sekiro is sort of an exeption but not all that much.

Lots of reasons. For once, DS1 cites lots of realms and lands beyond the game scope and gives you views hinting at those lands in the horizon...

...while Elden Ring lore hints at groups and realms and intrigue etc. within the very place the game is running, but then doesn't show how any of that could be plausibly the case, since there isn't even a population for that to happen. Except if the conflict is among dogs and mosquitoes.

The Kenneth Haite quest in Limgrave is the worst offender here: you find a noble on the road asking help to expels invaders from his castle, and citing he is the next in line for Limgrave throne, and that Godrick is an incompetent ruler.

I mean, wut? Where are this Haite fella serfs, court, farmers or their homes? Nowhere to be seen. What nobility is that which Godrick is ruling over? Nowhere to be seen. Where is the daily live of this realms, with commerce, diplomacy, sustenance, etc. hapenning? Nowhere to be seen. Do we see that court in the castle after the quest is accomplished? Nope, the place stays derelict.

The game world is simply too fragile in backing up what's claimed by the lore, in a way that past Souls games weren't (be by backing it up or smartly evading it altogether). All there is, is a theme-park of adventure for the player to romp through with little in the way of causal resonance to the lore that's presented in items and NPC dialogues.

 

[Curratum]

Thanks for the help, guys! Figured it out.

Lucaria boss was a bit of a joke, but I don't mind, the fight was cinematic and eerie.

 

[Brickfrog]

Personally, I don't see how you can look at any souls game and feel immersed in the detailed realistic society it depicts lmao. These games are about cool ass bosses and pooping on fat rollers.

Then again I'm definitely not a "lore" guy. If I was I would probably read more novels lol.

 

[hackncrazy]

yet believable, world like DeS, DS1 or Bloobdorne did

How exactly are these believable where ER wouldn't be? I'd say Souls games always exhibit a dream/myth/fairytale-like vibe akin to for example E.Y.E., Pathologic, Killer 7 etc. Sekiro is sort of an exeption but not all that much.

Lots of reasons. For once, DS1 cites lots of realms and lands beyond the game scope and gives you views hinting at those lands in the horizon...

...while Elden Ring lore hints at groups and realms and intrigue etc. within the very place the game is running, but then doesn't show how any of that could be plausibly the case at all, since there isn't even a population for that to happen. Except if the conflict is among dogs and mosquitoes.

Before The Shattering ocurred, the Lands Between was a normal place with people and such, right? My guess is that the destruction of the Elden Ring fucked up the place and took away most of life with it. Then again, I'm just guessing with the bits of description I've got from the items, probably some youtubers are salivating to make videos about this.

 

[LabRat]

 

[N0rn]

I feel like Malenia was designed to counter everyone relying on ashes. Most of the time my mimic just serves as HP-drain fodder for her, basically invalidating any use I would have gotten out of the ash. I used one of my larval tears to respec into Dex and will try to take her down with faster weapons, but until now I just got my ass handed to me. I think I will try tomorrow again, since I usually do better by having some breaks between my boss attempts.

 

[BlackGoat]

Totally missed all the rooftop shit in Raya Lucaria. Crazy all of this was optional. I keep forgetting I can just jump over railing

 

[Silva]

yet believable, world like DeS, DS1 or Bloobdorne did

How exactly are these believable where ER wouldn't be? I'd say Souls games always exhibit a dream/myth/fairytale-like vibe akin to for example E.Y.E., Pathologic, Killer 7 etc. Sekiro is sort of an exeption but not all that much.

Lots of reasons. For once, DS1 cites lots of realms and lands beyond the game scope and gives you views hinting at those lands in the horizon...

...while Elden Ring lore hints at groups and realms and intrigue etc. within the very place the game is running, but then doesn't show how any of that could be plausibly the case at all, since there isn't even a population for that to happen. Except if the conflict is among dogs and mosquitoes.

Before The Shattering ocurred, the Lands Between was a normal place with people and such, right? My guess is that the destruction of the Elden Ring fucked up the place and took away most of life with it. Then again, I'm just guessing with the bits of description I've got from the items, probably some youtubers are salivating to make videos about this.

Sure, but there should be vestiges of those settlements and farms around, even if burnt or derelict. Where are they?

I'm coming from a Ghost of Tsushima playthrough, which is another open-world game that's hapenning after an apocalypse of sorts, and it has a fair share of rice farms and villages and evidence of commerce and noble courts etc. It's a believable illusion. It makes you believe that's a breathable world you're exploring, not simply a cardboard with encounters spread over it.

And Tsushima is a Ubi-clone. Let that sink for a moment.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

how any of that could be plausibly the case

And anything about DS/1 is plausible as in would make sense in an actual "real" functioning way where general reality rules as we understand them apply? Come on now.
The worlds of fromsoft function on a mythical level with some altered dimension/broken reality/time loop fuckery thrown in. ER is no different in that regard.

 

[Lutte]

I too was running around like a retard for an hour before figuring this out.
There's a rolling ball indiana jones trap, so I assumed that the player was supposed to find another way and disable the trap before trying to climb those stairs.

Dunno which area you are in, but some of the rolling balls can actually be killed (though I've met one in the open world that is just a trap, and disappears after rolling off). They drop the thing you need to do a respec at Rennala.

 

[Silva]

how any of that could be plausibly the case

And anything about DS/1 is plausible as in would make sense in an actual "real" functioning way where general reality rules as we understand them apply? Come on now.
The worlds of fromsoft function on a mythical level with some altered dimension/broken reality/time loop fuckery thrown in. ER is no different in that regard.

But that's the point, From was always good in mixing mythical and prosaic realities. The cycle of Fire was presented in tandem with settlements and vistas that hinted at functioning societies. Their maps at the same time playgrounds rich in gameplay and world logic-history. You would climb Firelink Shrine and see the lands extending to the horizon and imagine lands cited in the lore out there. You would reach Anor Londo and see the derelict abandoned capital of the nobility, and then go all way down to the Depths and Blightown and see the favelas that lived from those gods dung and detritus.

This isn't remotely the case in Elden. There's very little history being told by the world itself. The videogame logic too apparent to hold up the illusion of a real place.

 

[N0rn]

Sure, but there should be vestiges of those settlements and farms around, even if burnt or derelict. Where are they?

I'm coming from a Ghost of Tsushima playthrough, which is another open-world game that's hapenning after an apocalypse of sorts, and it has a fair share of rice farms and villages and evidence of commerce and noble courts etc. It's a believable illusion. It makes you believe that's a breathable world you're exploring, not simply a cardboard with encounters spread over it.

And Tsushima is a Ubi-clone. Let that sink for a moment.

I haven't played it yet, but isn't Ghost of Tsushima set after a historical invasion by the Mongols? Not really comparable to a mythical and more disconnected setting like Elden Ring. You've even got some more mundane places like the windmills in the north, but the story and world of ER are mainly concerned with places that relate to those figures of power like Rennala, Radahn and so on. As others have said, I get more of a dream-like vibe from Elden Ring's world that doesn't really try to emulate any real-world parallels, something like Bloodborne where a lot of places were connected to the minds of the powerful figures of that world like Maria and the fishing village or Gehrman and the Hunter's dream.

 

[Cromwell]

I mean, wut? Where are this Haite fella serfs

he tries to use demi humans, the same as they did in castle mourne, with predictable results. So either the People degraded to demi humans, or are just gone and they decieded to use demis after. Dont know because I am not that far in.

Do we see that court in the castle after the quest is accomplished? Nope, the place stays derelict.

if you mean haite he gets invaded by demis. If you mean stormveil, from the scene after godricks death I assume everyone normal is gone everyone else got to take up arms even if they werent soldiers before (the people with the wood around their necks)

 

[Lutte]

But that's the point, From was always good in mixing mythical and prosaic realities. The cycle of Fire was presented in tandem with settlements and vistas that hinted at functioning societies.

This isn't the case in Elden.

Although I never felt DS to have a believable world (it's too concentrated with too many varied topographies in one place, I prefer DeS approach of levels over an interconnected place when it comes to suspending disbelief), they did make a good effort into creating a sense of belonging to the environment to the various enemies and showed glimpses of things like the slums where the dregs of society lived (lower undead burg) and incidentally the enemies there are built in the rogue archetype. And while it did reuse some enemies (and mostly in the areas that were rushed to completion when budget ran out), most of the time, their location made sense, you met another group of Taurus Demons where Demons should be.
ER is very fond of recycling bosses and mobs and throwing them across the entire world. So there isn't a place in the world without dragons, without crucible knights, without undead infestations, without wolves, without etc etc.
In Dark Souls, when an enemy was in a place where it didn't look like it belonged, it was very rare, and usually told a story indirectly, leaving some to the imagination. And it was often the case that the item descriptions would tell you something indeed caused them to go to do X or Y.

Talking about descriptions of lands beyond.. Dark Souls had plenty, but ER has rigorously none, despite the main character and many important NPCs being tarnished who were banished from the lands between, which should clearly have sparked more descriptions about the places they inhabitated but everyone acts like it's just a blank page, the game tells you more about the mysterious outer gods in item descriptions than they do about the foreign lands.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

The cycle of Fire was presented in tandem with settlements and vistas that hinted at functioning societies.

Have to personally disagree here, nothing in any DS game has ever come across to me as anything but obscured mythics of a broken reality. Not sure how it can without some serious mental gymnastics, I mean come on.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Have to personally disagree here, nothing in any DS game has ever come across to me as anything but obscured mythics of a broken reality. Not sure how it can without some serious mental gymnastics, I mean come on.

Agreed, Elden Rings lore seems more believable and less archetypal to me. Only reason I can't get immersed is running around on the horse

 

[Silva]

As others have said, I get more of a dream-like vibe from Elden Ring's world that doesn't really try to emulate any real-world parallels, something like Bloodborne where a lot of places were connected to the minds of the powerful figures of that world like Maria and the fishing village or Gehrman and the Hunter's dream.

But Bloodborne is explicitly a dreamland formed from real world (in the game's context) people and locations, even if it makes that fact (smartly) ambiguous as to resonate Lovecraft mythos. Elden Ring's Lands Between is not a dream, but a real (in the game context) place, even if divine and dreamlike feeling. There's a big difference there. The former discards demographics and logistics by principle (it's a dream after all), but the later don't. Or at least shouldn't.

But seeing as you're equaling DS1 - a game that points to a functioning and plausible society out there in their lore and vistas - with Elden Ring, I doubt you'll see or care for what I'm talking about. Which is fair, but the point I make is a big reason for Souls appeal for a lot of fans, and Elden suffers to uphold it.

 

[deem]

The open world makes it harder to conceal artificiality. Before only you had access to a small part of a castle and the rest was a blurry background, left to your imagination, for you to assume there is more. In an open world game those barriers are gone.