From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[Great Deceiver]

Did the Uchigatana and the Moonveil had the same AR?
For the question if split damage is worse or not you have to compare 2 weapons with same same AR, one single damage, one split.

Looking at the stats on fextralife a +25 keen Uchigatana has 258 (physical) damage. A +10 Moonveil 391 (split) damage. (everything without bonus damage from stats scaling)
So the damage difference could be so big, that the Moonveil still does more damage, even with split damage.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. R1/R2 doesn't matter for Moonveil. I just spammed the L2/R2 weapon art for the last 40 hours of the game. I literally didn't do regular swipes at all, except for l1 powerstancing with another bleed weapon on staggers for LOL10k damage. So, I don't think the split damage is a factor.

 

[Lutte]

Most magic weapons have significantly higher AR than their physical counterpart and you were the one fag saying that "look, higher AR doesn't mean anything because split damage sucks" when people compared Moonveil to the claymore and its slower and shittier attacks.

Not to mention, weapon arts, which are more difficult to take into account when it comes to damage calculations (the magic part in Moonveil seems to do most of the damage of the hit for example so it doesn't get stopped as much by defense), many of the faith and magic weapons have really solid weapon arts in this game (unlike ds3) and one of the things that make Moonveil particularly insane is just how fast using the weapon art is.

Even if you wanna play with slower weapons, as I said, Dark Moon is also a great example of how much better it gets. It's not as insane as Moonveil but it's a better greatsword than a claymore. Magic weapons rule this game all around.

 

[Tyrr]

Did the Uchigatana and the Moonveil had the same AR?
For the question if split damage is worse or not you have to compare 2 weapons with same same AR, one single damage, one split.

Looking at the stats on fextralife a +25 keen Uchigatana has 258 (physical) damage. A +10 Moonveil 391 (split) damage. (everything without bonus damage from stats scaling)
So the damage difference could be so big, that the Moonveil still does more damage, even with split damage.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. R1/R2 doesn't matter for Moonveil. I just spammed the L2/R2 weapon art for the final 40 hours of the game. I literally didn't do regular swipes at all, ever. So, I don't think the split damage is a factor.

I'm not arguing about if Moonveil is op or not.
It's about if split damage is still worse like in all other Souls games. So if a weapon with 200 physic damage does the same damage than a weapon with 100/100 physic/magic damage, or not.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Did the Uchigatana and the Moonveil had the same AR?
For the question if split damage is worse or not you have to compare 2 weapons with same same AR, one single damage, one split.

Looking at the stats on fextralife a +25 keen Uchigatana has 258 (physical) damage. A +10 Moonveil 391 (split) damage. (everything without bonus damage from stats scaling)
So the damage difference could be so big, that the Moonveil still does more damage, even with split damage.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. R1/R2 doesn't matter for Moonveil. I just spammed the L2/R2 weapon art for the final 40 hours of the game. I literally didn't do regular swipes at all, ever. So, I don't think the split damage is a factor.

I'm not arguing about if Moonveil is op or not.
It's about if split damage is still worse like in all other Souls games. So if a weapon with 200 physic damage does the same damage than a weapon with 100/100 physic/magic damage, or not.

You just ignored what I wrote. I'm saying it doesn't matter (in this case) if the weapon has hybrid damage on regular swipes when the best (perhaps only) way to use said weapon is spamming the L2/R2 weapon art - how do you quantify/qualify the weapon art damage?

 

[Tyrr]

Most magic weapons have significantly higher AR than their physical counterpart and you were the one fag saying that "look, higher AR doesn't mean anything because split damage sucks" when people compared Moonveil to the claymore and its slower and shittier attacks.

Not to mention, weapon arts, which are more difficult to take into account when it comes to damage calculations (the magic part in Moonveil seems to do most of the damage of the hit for example so it doesn't get stopped as much by defense), many of the faith and magic weapons have really solid weapon arts in this game (unlike ds3) and one of the things that make Moonveil particularly insane is just how fast using the weapon art is.

Even if you wanna play with slower weapons, as I said, Dark Moon is also a great example of how much better it gets. It's not as insane as Moonveil but it's a better greatsword than a claymore. Magic weapons rule this game all around.

Don't make shit up.
To quote myself:

Split damage is worse than pure physical/magic/whatever damage. That's also why comparing AR of weapons with split damage (like the Moonveil) with one without (like the Claymore) doesn't tell the whole story.

If you want to argue with a straw man, be my guest. But don't expect me to take you serious.

 

[Lutte]

Did the Uchigatana and the Moonveil had the same AR?
For the question if split damage is worse or not you have to compare 2 weapons with same same AR, one single damage, one split.

Looking at the stats on fextralife a +25 keen Uchigatana has 258 (physical) damage. A +10 Moonveil 391 (split) damage. (everything without bonus damage from stats scaling)
So the damage difference could be so big, that the Moonveil still does more damage, even with split damage.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. R1/R2 doesn't matter for Moonveil. I just spammed the L2/R2 weapon art for the final 40 hours of the game. I literally didn't do regular swipes at all, ever. So, I don't think the split damage is a factor.

I'm not arguing about if Moonveil is op or not.
It's about if split damage is still worse like in all other Souls games. So if a weapon with 200 physic damage does the same damage than a weapon with 100/100 physic/magic damage, or not.

No one fucking cares. You're throwing numbers at random ("so split damage is worse because if a weapon had this number it would be worse than this other weapon with this number"), we're talking about real weapons. Wing of Astel is the better scimitar. Dark Moon is the better greatsword. Bastard's Stars is the better flail. Moonveil is the better katana. It's just how it is no matter how you nerd about the theoreticals of split.

 

[Lutte]

Most magic weapons have significantly higher AR than their physical counterpart and you were the one fag saying that "look, higher AR doesn't mean anything because split damage sucks" when people compared Moonveil to the claymore and its slower and shittier attacks.

Not to mention, weapon arts, which are more difficult to take into account when it comes to damage calculations (the magic part in Moonveil seems to do most of the damage of the hit for example so it doesn't get stopped as much by defense), many of the faith and magic weapons have really solid weapon arts in this game (unlike ds3) and one of the things that make Moonveil particularly insane is just how fast using the weapon art is.

Even if you wanna play with slower weapons, as I said, Dark Moon is also a great example of how much better it gets. It's not as insane as Moonveil but it's a better greatsword than a claymore. Magic weapons rule this game all around.

Don't make shit up.
To quote myself:

Split damage is worse than pure physical/magic/whatever damage. That's also why comparing AR of weapons with split damage (like the Moonveil) with one without (like the Claymore) doesn't tell the whole story.

If you want to argue with a straw man, be my guest. But don't expect me to take you serious.

I don't take seriously people who have their head up their arse either.

 

[Jackpot]

It's annoying how STR/FAITH gets so many cool weapons at the very end of the game.

 

[Great Deceiver]

It's annoying how STR/FAITH gets so many cool weapons at the very end of the game.

From very obviously wants players to do hybrid builds in this game instead of pure STR/DEX (I played up until Mountaintops of the Giants on a pure STR greatsword/greatshield build).

I felt zero incentive for specialized builds, you just end up missing out on cool stuff and gimping yourself.

 

[Tyrr]

Did the Uchigatana and the Moonveil had the same AR?
For the question if split damage is worse or not you have to compare 2 weapons with same same AR, one single damage, one split.

Looking at the stats on fextralife a +25 keen Uchigatana has 258 (physical) damage. A +10 Moonveil 391 (split) damage. (everything without bonus damage from stats scaling)
So the damage difference could be so big, that the Moonveil still does more damage, even with split damage.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. R1/R2 doesn't matter for Moonveil. I just spammed the L2/R2 weapon art for the final 40 hours of the game. I literally didn't do regular swipes at all, ever. So, I don't think the split damage is a factor.

I'm not arguing about if Moonveil is op or not.
It's about if split damage is still worse like in all other Souls games. So if a weapon with 200 physic damage does the same damage than a weapon with 100/100 physic/magic damage, or not.

You just ignored what I wrote. I'm saying it doesn't matter (in this case) if the weapon has hybrid damage on regular swipes when the best (perhaps only) way to use said weapon is spamming the L2/R2 weapon art - how do you quantify/qualify the weapon art damage?

As you ignored my arguments.
I never talked about weapon arts or move sets. Just that comparing weapons just by AR doesn't tell the whole story because damage splits exists.

After that someone made the statement that in ER split damage is no longer worse than single damage. The post you first answered to was about this statement, nothing else.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

That would make the world empty. Just make not all off them hostile on spot, like with Jellyfish.

Really liked that in Lyndell where a lot of dudes are just sitting there passively, gave them a nice "fuck this, everything is fucked" vibe.

 

[Lutte]

After that someone made the statement that in ER split damage is no longer worse than single damage.

Yes it's no longer worse because the way the weapons are implemented makes them actually good while you're having an autistic fit about how if they had X theoretical damage number they would suck but they don't have your X theoretical number.

This is the difference between this game and the previous souls where pretty much all boss and special weapons sucked dicks. Here, almost all the special weapons are good, and, in many cases, just outright better than their pure physical counterpart. The only one that is a joke among the ones I tried is Sword of Night and Flame, its R1s do very pathetic damage and now that they nerfed its weapon arts it's basically a trash weapon.

There is no longer a reason to avoid split damage in Elden Ring except for that one trashy weapon.

 

[Villagkouras]

So...

Spoiler

After all these hours, I've seen everything or almost everything the game has to offer. What a ride it was! Right now, after all these hours, I rank it as my second best FS game, only behind DS1. But as a FS product, it's their best, most polished one.

For me the Souls series is about exploration, new areas, dungeon crawling and secrets and not so much about bosses.

The level design is probably the best in the entire series. Favourite levels are Leyndell, Haligtree, Stormveil, Raya Lucaria & Manor, Underground cities, Volcano Manor. Worst levels/areas for me were Lake of Rot, Consecrated Snowfield (I liked the first snow part), Deeproot Depths. Everything has a fair share of secrets and uncovering some are really rewarding, first of all as an experience and then as loot.

What I can't comprehend is how they're keep making an enormous amount of optional stuff. Fights, areas, levels, small paths inside levels. The amount of optional stuff is insane and this struck me most when I did two NG+ to get the other endings which lasted 2-3 hours (you can see the screenshot with the trophies I won today and check the exact time I got both of the endings I initially missed and I idled for about an hour between 2nd and 3rd to eat).

The game absolutely hit the mark for my priorities. The most memorable parts for me were when exploring dungeons, trying to adapt to overcome challenges (changing weapon types, armor, talismans etc), uncovering new areas and enemies. So, for the most part of these 110+ hours, I was absolutely happy to experience this game.

Ok, let's talk about its issues: The game is too big for its own shake. It wasn't fatigue, if I didn't want to play, I wouldn't play it. But its size makes it a nightmare to balance. Most of the boss fights were either too easy or too hard, only a few of them felt "right". I think this is a problem due to the size: If a player follows the correct path and explores like he's supposed to (as we learn in all FS games all these years), he'll become overleveled. Then the lategame boss fights would be a joke to him. I think this is the reason that the lategame fights are borderline unfair. The bosses almost oneshot players with 50 vigor, this is ridiculous. And on top of that they have everything I hate: Delayed moves, attack spam, AoEs, insane tracking, tracking projectiles, they teleport, their poison/rot/whatever auras last forever.

The fight that encapsulates all these is the Fire Giant, as I zipped twice most main bosses, I feel this one is the worst. Not only because of all the things I mentioned, but also because of the camera. Speaking of which, it's time for FS to do something radical about the camera and lock on. It was nice in 2009, but now it's 2022 and they have to do something. Locking on things that are meters away and not the giant boss you have in front of you is unacceptable. Not being able to lock on an enemy that's on the side of the camera, instead you get the "center camera" toggle is unacceptable.

Also, some arenas were too cluttered with chairs, rocks, ladders, everything and made fights frustrating. And the ability for the enemies to clip through all these while the player gets stuck makes it 10 times worse.

For me, bosses (due to all these reasons) were the worst aspect of the game. Like the chicken and egg eternal question, I don't know if the quality of the bosses brought the ashes, or the ashes make them go all in in bosses BS. There were some cool fights, but most of the time when I saw a boss arena I had my enjoyment from exploring the absolutely great levels drop immediately.

Of course, their presentation is excellent, the best so far. And there are some good fights, relevant to the time I found them: Leonine Misbegotten, Mohg, Margit, Godrick, Rennala, Ancestral Spirit, Astel, Erdtree Avatar, Commander Neil, the slim Godskin, Elemer of the Briar, Tibia Mariner, Rykard, Loretta, Bell-Bearing Hunters, Night Cavalry. Probably these are the ones with some clean tells and not so many BS.

Bosses that could be great if they removed ONE of their many obnoxious elements: Malenia, Maliketh, Radahn (I've fought him pre-nerf), Crystalians, Godfrey, Final boss

Trash bosses: Fire Giant, Magma Wyrm, Ulcerated Tree Spirit, Death Birds, Crucible Knights, Fallingstar Beasts, Godskin Duo

All the others are indifferent and I don't remember them.

I didn't mind reused enemies, I know what to expect from FS after all these years. Maybe they shouldn't present all the enemies in the earlier areas and save some for later ones. I also believe that the endgame criticism is exaggerated, I see people criticizing Haligtree, which I found great as a design and as a landscape and not that hard.

For me the perfect game would be this, with the areas more compact, ditch 30% of open space and ditch the catacombs, hero graves and mines as seperate micro-dungeons and make them one or two big, complex interconnected dungeons with multiple entries depending on player progress or make the transitional areas (like the one when you go from Liurnia to Altus Plateau), ditch Consecrated Snowfield and Deeproot Depths and integrate some interesting thing to the snow and underground area you already have, less repetition of content (who needs so many walking mausoleums?). I don't know if I'm making sense. This could be a 60-70 hour game full of content, without open world padding and easier to balance.

But as it stands now, I'm perfectly happy with the game I played.

So, Elden Ring 2 when?

 

[Eyestabber]

I'm close to the end, Godfrey 2.0, but honestly I just want it to be over. Farum Azula is a god awful place, Maliketh was absurd bs, the sentinel before him was bs and Godfrey 2.0 1-shotting me at 50 vigor is getting REALLY tiresome. The Maliketh fight comes down to boss RNG, basically. If he spams the jumping pew pew SHOOOOOOSH attack, might as well alt F4. And human summons don't help at this point, niggas just get 2-shot and then leave me to fight an HP bloated monstrosity. Gonna take YET ANOTHER break from the game, but I was having a bad time in Mountaintops, FA just made me feel like "I wish I could godmode away this garbo".

The only real winners are the people who didn't spend money in ER and are waiting on patches + sales. Might be a better game then, but right now the lategame is simply "fuck this shit" levels of terrible. And I'm not going anywhere near the Haligtree.

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

So, Elden Ring 2 when?

Thank you anon! You are a good anon!

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

That is its own reward.

I do love you anon! I do!

 

[Lutte]

The fight that encapsulates all these is the Fire Giant, as I zipped twice most main bosses, I feel this one is the worst. Not only because of all the things I mentioned, but also because of the camera. Speaking of which, it's time for FS to do something radical about the camera and lock on. It was nice in 2009, but now it's 2022 and they have to do something. Locking on things that are meters away and not the giant boss you have in front of you is unacceptable. Not being able to lock on an enemy that's on the side of the camera, instead you get the "center camera" toggle is unacceptable.

The problem goes far deeper than lock on. I often do not use the lock on if an enemy has a big hitbox and thus does not make me worry about missing hits because of a slight mistake in attack direction but there are times, like the Fire Giant, where camera is still an issue nonetheless because 1/ the FOV is highly restricted, while the enemy is a needlessly gigantic 3d model 2/ camera is not situated far enough from the character you control so you spend the whole fight feeling like an ankle biter not seeing most of the animations the boss has in the first place and relying on sound cues to tell you when to bug off.
I've come to really despise this kind of fight in From games.

Also, some arenas were too cluttered with chairs, rocks, ladders, everything and made fights frustrating. And the ability for the enemies to clip through all these while the player gets stuck makes it 10 times worse.

Biggest frustration is when their weapon can hit you but yours can't (through walls, pillars etc).

For me, bosses (due to all these reasons) were the worst aspect of the game. Like the chicken and egg eternal question, I don't know if the quality of the bosses brought the ashes, or the ashes make them go all in in bosses BS. There were some cool fights, but most of the time when I saw a boss arena I had my enjoyment from exploring the absolutely great levels drop immediately.

Of course, their presentation is excellent, the best so far. And there are some good fights, relevant to the time I found them: Leonine Misbegotten, Mohg, Margit, Godrick, Rennala, Ancestral Spirit, Astel, Erdtree Avatar, Commander Neil, the slim Godskin, Elemer of the Briar, Tibia Mariner, Rykard, Loretta, Bell-Bearing Hunters, Night Cavalry. Probably these are the ones with some clean tells and not so many BS.

Bosses that could be great if they removed ONE of their many obnoxious elements: Malenia, Maliketh, Radahn (I've fought him pre-nerf), Crystalians, Godfrey, Final boss

Trash bosses: Fire Giant, Magma Wyrm, Ulcerated Tree Spirit, Death Birds, Crucible Knights, Fallingstar Beasts

All the others are indifferent and I don't remember them.

I would throw the crystalian in the trash list, they're obnoxious because there's three of them ( in certain instances ) BUT, if you remove the gank, they're individually weak sauce with a very limited moveset, so either way, you can't really fix this, it's garbage all the way down.
Crucible Knight is top tier and its tells are very clear, what is your issue with it? It was one of the most enjoyable boss fights for me, along with the assassins.
Ulcerated bullshit needs to go away. Despite its bad design I actually found the ecounter fun.. the first time, but it's so out of touch with the way this game works I started getting tired of it after the nth number of fighting this. When the boss character model keeps clipping half into walls there's a serious issue.

I didn't mind reused enemies, I know what to expect from FS after all these years.

I often see people state this like the way ER does it was routine for other souls games. DS1 reused asylum twice, and put a few taurus and capra demon in the rushed garbage lava area, while ER throws you more asylum demons than a single hand can count, reuses Margit, reuses Godrick, reuses Astel (core story bosses. Astel, ffs, destroyed the eternal city) and so on..
No, this isn't what we came to expect from FS at all. This is a trillion times worse.

Maybe they shouldn't present all the enemies in the earlier areas and save some for later ones. I also believe that the endgame criticism is exaggerated, I see people criticizing Haligtree, which I found great as a design and as a landscape and not that hard.

I also thought Elphael was great, and didn't mind the reuse too much because it had stellar encounter design. But, you gotta admit, think of even the last levels of DS3.. they had more unique encounters than this. The DS3 equivalent of Elphael would be Archdragon Peak, as an optional but end game sort of area. Its level design was garbage, but in terms of enemy types it felt fresher than what ER has to offer.

For me the perfect game would be this, with the areas more compact, ditch 30% of open space and ditch the catacombs, hero graves and mines as seperate micro-dungeons and make them one or two big, complex interconnected dungeons with multiple entries depending on player progress or make the transitional areas (like the one when you go from Liurnia to Altus Plateau), ditch Consecrated Snowfield and Deeproot Depths and integrate some interesting thing to the snow and underground area you already have, less repetition of content (who needs so many walking mausoleums?). I don't know if I'm making sense. This could be a 60-70 hour game full of content, without open world padding and easier to balance.

But as it stands now, I'm perfectly happy with the game I played.

So, Elden Ring 2 when?

I would also ditch the entirety of Caelid. This would also make some of the enemy types of Elphael feel fresher because you wouldn't have met so many projectile flinging crustaceans before going there, and let's get real, Caelid doesn't have a single truly unique area to explore, its Forts are the most simplistic and boring, Redmane is garbage and the only real piece of content to do there is Radahn and the Commander in the swamp.

This game needed someone to tell them when to stop.

 

[Terenty]

Gotta admit it was a nice trick on From's part making Limgrave a network test area giving the impression the rest of the world will follow suit and be as high quality, dense in exciting new content and full of new enemy types. Alas...

 

[Great Deceiver]

I beat the game about two weeks ago and still haven't felt any urge to come back to it and try different things. It might be the least replayable From game yet - at least to me - despite being the one with the greatest variety of weapons, spells and possible builds. I dread slogging through the vast, mostly empty open world with prior knowledge of points of interest, I dread the second half of the game and the shameless recycling, I dread pretty much all of it. The only places I have fond memories of are Stormveil Castle, Raya Lucaria and maybe Caria Manor.

For perspective, I think I started NG+ runs of every single post-Demons Souls From game (except for DS3) immediately after finishing them for the first time. Most recent one was Sekiro, a game with zero build variety to speak of.

 

[deem]

How to make Elden Cucks feel extreme mental anguish.

Christ, the butthurt some people have in here over a game they don't get is hilarious.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Equating not liking particular aspects of something to not "getting" something is womblynspeak. Are you a woman?

 

[Olinser]

Yeah Crucible Knight is a GREAT boss fight, probably the best IMO. Strong attacks but not a bunch of giant swing helicopter bullshit, good strong combos but not overly spammy crap, strong armor and shield but still can work around, and a great gap closer if you try to cheese from ranged.

Crucible Knight is definitely top 3 best bosses they made.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Yeah Crucible Knight is a GREAT boss fight, probably the best IMO. Strong attacks but not a bunch of giant swing helicopter bullshit, good strong combos but not overly spammy crap, strong armor and shield but still can work around, and a great gap closer if you try to cheese from ranged.

Crucible Knight is definitely top 3 best bosses they made.

Top 3 overall From boss or top 3 Elden Ring boss? I could see the second case, but definitely not the first.

 

[deem]

Equating not liking particular aspects of something to not "getting" something is womblynspeak. Are you a woman?

Normally I ignore the participation award worthy responses but I will humor you this time.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Guys, you know what i always wanted in those games?

Fighting a giant boss in a tiny room with fucked up propotions where you can't tell what's attacking, which side the fucking head is when you stagger him, where you don't know if you are dodging attacks or just rolling like a retard for the fuck of it.

Peak game design: