From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[SumDrunkGuy]

So D got murdered by Fia and somehow I never got his armor set. Is there any other way to get it? I want that sword that his brother has.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Fought Placidusax, really fun boss. One of the few bosses that feels intuitive and where every attack is satisfying to dodge, whereas most of the bosses feel very chaotic

Also i am sick of even the biggest enemies input reading dodging all my spells, why are huge enemies Bloodborne stepping around?

 

[Lyric Suite]

My main problem with the open world past about the mid-game is just how poorly balanced the risk-reward is. They clearly expect you to be quite high level, but the actual mobs give only a tiny fraction of a level for killing them, and none of them give any actual useful drops, with the POSSIBLE exception of the humanoids who can drop their armor/weapons, but none of them are worth it anyway.

I think the major problem is there's no armor progression in this game. At nearly level 100 with multiple demi-god kills, i'm STILL wearing the Godrick Soldier legs/gauntlets/boots, because without a huge increase in weight, nothing is better.

Like look at this comparison

One of them drops off pretty much the first enemies in the game on the intended path, which you're supposed to fight at potentially level 1, and the other is a semi-hidden item from the intended 2nd major boss area (Raya Lucaria), where the game clearly expected to be around level 40+.

They have the same weight, and AT BEST, the Knight gauntlets can be considered a side-grade, with lowered damage negation/resistances, in return for small increases in elemental resistances.

This holds true for pretty much everything. There's ZERO armor item scaling at any point - it seems to all follow the exact same formula for weight vs defenses, so the only way to get more mitigation is significantly increased weight.

That's the reason that the late game feels horrible - because there's nothing that can be considered armor 'upgrades', unless you stack Endurance and pick up much heavier armor. And because you obviously can't Strengthen armor, you're just crap out of luck.

I think even if you are going for fashion armors in this game are lacking.

 

[The Decline]

So D got murdered by Fia and somehow I never got his armor set. Is there any other way to get it? I want that sword that his brother has.

You're supposed to get his armor and his bell bearing when he is killed. Then you give the armor to his brother in Nokron. Then after you finish Fia's quest she is killed by D's brother and he leaves the armor and sword when you reset the area.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Well that's the problem, I didn't get his armor. I looked all over my inventory. Will I still get the sword when he kills Fia? I wonder if his brother will drop it if I murder him

 

[Ravielsk]

My main problem with the open world past about the mid-game is just how poorly balanced the risk-reward is. They clearly expect you to be quite high level, but the actual mobs give only a tiny fraction of a level for killing them, and none of them give any actual useful drops, with the POSSIBLE exception of the humanoids who can drop their armor/weapons, but none of them are worth it anyway.

I think the major problem is there's no armor progression in this game. At nearly level 100 with multiple demi-god kills, i'm STILL wearing the Godrick Soldier legs/gauntlets/boots, because without a huge increase in weight, nothing is better.

Like look at this comparison

One of them drops off pretty much the first enemies in the game on the intended path, which you're supposed to fight at potentially level 1, and the other is a semi-hidden item from the intended 2nd major boss area (Raya Lucaria), where the game clearly expected to be around level 40+.

They have the same weight, and AT BEST, the Knight gauntlets can be considered a side-grade, with lowered damage negation/resistances, in return for small increases in elemental resistances.

This holds true for pretty much everything. There's ZERO armor item scaling at any point - it seems to all follow the exact same formula for weight vs defenses, so the only way to get more mitigation is significantly increased weight.

That's the reason that the late game feels horrible - because there's nothing that can be considered armor 'upgrades', unless you stack Endurance and pick up much heavier armor. And because you obviously can't Strengthen armor, you're just crap out of luck.

Like I wrote a couple pages back. In the network test beta the game had a vastly different armor and vigor scaling. Armor had more damage mitigation and poise in general worked like it did in Dark Souls 1 meaning that even medium armor made you reasonable beefy. Even vigor was noticeable nerfed as in the network test with 15 vigor I had about 550 HP, in the final game this is about 522. Problem is the beta was in November of last year and the game came out in February so unless they used some ultra early build for the network test then that means they overhauled a massive chunk of the game a couple of months before release. Honestly it does not shock me then that the armor balancing is so bad because in that timeframe there was no way for them to actually adjust it or the end game content.

The way I see it I will have to learn how to mod this game and simply beef up whatever armor I will settle on for the end game because there is no way I am wasting my time on a deliberately broken mess.

 

[MasPingon]

Godskin duo and the road to the fight arena. Goodbye Elden Ring in 6 months.

 

[Lutte]

Like I wrote a couple pages back. In the network test beta the game had a vastly different armor and vigor scaling. Armor had more damage mitigation and poise in general worked like it did in Dark Souls 1 meaning that even medium armor made you reasonable beefy. Even vigor was noticeable nerfed as in the network test with 15 vigor I had about 550 HP, in the final game this is about 522. Problem is the beta was in November of last year and the game came out in February so unless they used some ultra early build for the network test then that means they overhauled a massive chunk of the game a couple of months before release. Honestly it does not shock me then that the armor balancing is so bad because in that timeframe there was no way for them to actually adjust it or the end game content.

The way I see it I will have to learn how to mod this game and simply beef up whatever armor I will settle on for the end game because there is no way I am wasting my time on a deliberately broken mess.

From is, unfortunately, not a stranger to last-minute crunch. DS1's late game areas, with the worst offender being Izalith, have that smell all over the place. DS2's network test still had some of the dynamic lighting stuff in it (and ran like dogshit) so they were busy replacing all the dynamic lighting by static lights and trying to fix textures to make them look ok with a different type of rendering at the last second. DS3 lost what was supposed to be a core mechanic of the game - you were supposed to create your own bonfires, have the ability to drag around a corpse and plunge the coiled sword into it, it was no surprise something like being able to see a bonfire from another bonfire happened, they were placed last minute in development.

 

[toro]

 

[Lutte]

Crucible and many other enemies do the same thing. You can only heal if you heal right after an enemy combo (they are programmed to have a "recovery moment" where they won't pull off that shit and let you heal or attack after a combo) or if you run away far enough that the attack is out of reach.
Any attempt to heal while the enemy is still around you invites a guaranteed waste of flask.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Crucible and many other enemies do the same thing. You can only heal if you heal right after an enemy combo (they are programmed to have a "recovery moment" where they won't pull off that shit and let you heal or attack after a combo) or if you run away far enough that the attack is out of reach.
Any attempt to heal while the enemy is still around you invites a guaranteed waste of flask.

The funny thing about the video isn't that it happens, it's that he keeps doing it and at least acting as if it's mysterious and he can't recognize a flask punish mechanic that's been present in the games to some extent forever.

 

[Lutte]

The funny thing about the video isn't that it happens, it's that he keeps doing it and at least acting as if it's mysterious and he can't recognize a flask punish mechanic that's been present in the games to some extent forever.

I think the moment it truly became blatant is Fume Knight. Previous games might have had it too, but enemies generally didn't have many gap-closing moves and rarely punished people who were a moderate range away from them.

A fun fact about it and how systematic Fume Knight's reaction to your healing was is that you can stop him from buffing by using the estus flask at repeated intervals while you are close to him, instead of the gap closer move if you're close to him he does an overhead strike that makes the greatsword glow and he can't buff as long as the greatsword is glowing. And you can always dodge away from the overhead strike, while you're kinda screwed if he decides to do a running thrust, so it's always safer to heal close to him rather than at medium range.

 

[mediocrepoet]

The funny thing about the video isn't that it happens, it's that he keeps doing it and at least acting as if it's mysterious and he can't recognize a flask punish mechanic that's been present in the games to some extent forever.

I think the moment it truly became blatant is Fume Knight. Previous games might have had it too, but enemies generally didn't have many gap-closing moves and rarely punished people who were a moderate range away from them.

A fun fact about it and how systematic Fume Knight's reaction to your healing was is that you can stop him from buffing by using the estus flask at repeated intervals while you are close to him, instead of the gap closer move if you're close to him he does an overhead strike that makes the greatsword glow and he can't buff as long as the greatsword is glowing. And you can always dodge away from the overhead strike, while you're kinda screwed if he decides to do a running thrust, so it's always safer to heal close to him rather than at medium range.

I think you may be right about that. Certainly there was a change in DS2 where enemies started getting more aggressive about heal punishing and started getting more ways to close and kick your ass for trying to heal in "unsafe" times and this changed the dynamic of combat in the games.

That's actually kind of funny, it didn't occur to me to try screwing with enemy's AI movesets by flasking. Not sure I'd do it anyway, but it is funny.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Look at these bussies crying because they can't heal against Memenia

 

[The Decline]

If only we could hack in an Ashes of War that was a Flask bluff for baiting enemies.

 

[Ravielsk]

I'm coming from three openworld games playthroughs - Ghost of Tsushima, STALKER Anomaly and Subnautica - and all them present worlds more alive and believable than this (besides having fairly decent gameplay overall).

I think the problem is that Souls-borne design philosophy is wrapped around dead or dying worlds where naturally there would be only were few people around and for a "semi-linear" game that works just fine but it does not really transition well into the open world setting.

For me personally the core issue is that there is basically no-one in this open world to actually flesh it out. NPCs not having different routines based on time of day or lacking real purpose in the world are ultimately just details but when there is not a singular surviving settlement that would at least somewhat reflect how the world was before it went to shit that is a major deal breaker. Not only does it mean that about half the story is still just locked behind random loot but that I once again have basically 0 investment into... well anything that happens in the story. The world is basically made up of like 10 dudes who barely have anything to say to me and basically just want to die anyway. Even the roundtable hold just feels small and mostly empty despite having the most NPCs out of the whole game.

The transition to the open world should have been the que to abandon storytelling through obscurity and give the world a bit more of texture, give it more definition and have the main plot be about misdirection and the mystery of who/why/what and how. The game already sort of does it anyway but since again the cast of the game is like 10 dudes it rather easy to figure things out before you have even half the facts.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

 

[Ravielsk]

From is, unfortunately, not a stranger to last-minute crunch

That alone would be fine if they ever then actually fixed the consequent hole in the game but so far they have not bothered ever to do that. Its one thing to crunch and not quite hit the deadline but if you then leave broken and unfinished crap in the game despite releasing patches and selling DLC then it becomes a problem. Its especially bad with DS1 and DS2 where both got re-released at least once and never bothered to even attempted to smooth over the sharp corners.

Izalith is just as busted in the remaster as it was on day one, DS2 still has these random "shaded" spots in its levels that serve no point and DS3 to this day has not bothered to move a singular bonfire. The only silver lining here is that the modding community has developed advanced enough tools to at least let the player smooth over most of From's BS but still it should not be the players job to re-balance the armors especially when they already worked fine before.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Souls fans always sound so miserable about the games they like. Reminds me of NMA.

 

[Ravielsk]

Souls fans always sound so miserable about the games they like. Reminds me of NMA.

Because they have so much untapped potential that is largely untapped for no good reason. I genuinely like the souls-born stories and I do enjoy "putting them together" but at the same time I hate that most of it happens because your character is never allowed to ask a singular question. For example in Bloodborne you are literary defined as a stranger who is just visiting yet at no point in the game can you ask even the most rudimentary of things like "what are those beasts? What is happening? Where am I?"

It seriously ruins the immersion and even the believability of the story when most of it is obscured because of your characters crushing autism.

 

[Bigg Boss]

I was telling my friend that if this game let me actually talk to these people it would be basically perfect but since it lacks that one thing it entirely leans on atmosphere and combat which if you don't like or are not good at can be rough. So they made the world real big so people can just over level everything and still kept the dialog out because the slave drivers don't know how to write words, or they are afraid butthurt Souls fans would be horribly offended if you had a dialog tree.

 

[Ravielsk]

I was telling my friend that if this game let me actually talk to these people it would be basically perfect but since it lacks that one thing it entirely leans on atmosphere and combat which if you don't like or are not good at can be rough. So they made the world real big so people can just over level everything and still kept the dialog out because the slave drivers don't know how to write words, or they are afraid butthurt Souls fans would be horribly offended if you had a dialog tree.

I think it has more to do with From being the victim of their own success. They came up with a formula that works and now they most likely fear deviating from it. The problem is that all previous Souls game were relatively short games that were massively boosted by their difficulty. Because once you get over the learning phase of it all most are not longer than 20 hours(assuming you are not just deliberately skipping shit) and for that the amount of dialog is... alright. I personally want way, way more of it but its not like its absence made the games significantly worse.

Elden Ring's open world simply no can no longer support that approach and it just makes it a direct detriment instead of a neutral design choice.

 

[Caim]

Souls fans always sound so miserable about the games they like. Reminds me of NMA.

Because they have so much untapped potential that is largely untapped for no good reason. I genuinely like the souls-born stories and I do enjoy "putting them together" but at the same time I hate that most of it happens because your character is never allowed to ask a singular question. For example in Bloodborne you are literary defined as a stranger who is just visiting yet at no point in the game can you ask even the most rudimentary of things like "what are those beasts? What is happening? Where am I?"

It seriously ruins the immersion and even the believability of the story when most of it is obscured because of your characters crushing autism.

"Tarnished one, will you take me along on your journey so that I may tend to you as a maiden?"

- Yes
- Sarcasm (yes)
- What's a maiden? (yes)
- No (yes)

 

[mediocrepoet]

Souls fans always sound so miserable about the games they like. Reminds me of NMA.

Because they have so much untapped potential that is largely untapped for no good reason. I genuinely like the souls-born stories and I do enjoy "putting them together" but at the same time I hate that most of it happens because your character is never allowed to ask a singular question. For example in Bloodborne you are literary defined as a stranger who is just visiting yet at no point in the game can you ask even the most rudimentary of things like "what are those beasts? What is happening? Where am I?"

It seriously ruins the immersion and even the believability of the story when most of it is obscured because of your characters crushing autism.

"Tarnished one, will you take me along on your journey so that I may tend to you as a maiden?"

- Yes
- Sarcasm (yes)
- What's a maiden? (yes)
- No (yes)

So... Bioware's writing the dialog?

 

[Bigg Boss]

Souls fans always sound so miserable about the games they like. Reminds me of NMA.

Because they have so much untapped potential that is largely untapped for no good reason. I genuinely like the souls-born stories and I do enjoy "putting them together" but at the same time I hate that most of it happens because your character is never allowed to ask a singular question. For example in Bloodborne you are literary defined as a stranger who is just visiting yet at no point in the game can you ask even the most rudimentary of things like "what are those beasts? What is happening? Where am I?"

It seriously ruins the immersion and even the believability of the story when most of it is obscured because of your characters crushing autism.

"Tarnished one, will you take me along on your journey so that I may tend to you as a maiden?"

- Yes
- Sarcasm (yes)
- What's a maiden? (yes)
- No (yes)

That would be the concern, yes.