From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[agentorange]

If you chose to rebuild the elden ring, no matter which order you pick for its mending, you're basically just a puppet who has never thought for themselves. The Great Will doesn't really seem to care if you curse the entire world with Dung Eater's curse, as long as it's an order under the Great Will.

So is it another take on Dark Souls where linking the flame is akin to being a puppet for the gods who want to perpetuate the status quo cycle, even if it means the world gradually degenerating. And choosing not to do it is freedom.

 

[Silva]

If you chose to rebuild the elden ring, no matter which order you pick for its mending, you're basically just a puppet who has never thought for themselves. The Great Will doesn't really seem to care if you curse the entire world with Dung Eater's curse, as long as it's an order under the Great Will.

So is it another take on Dark Souls where linking the flame is akin to being a puppet for the gods who want to perpetuate the status quo cycle, even if it means the world gradually degenerating. And choosing not to do it is freedom.

Actually, in DS both options have pros and cons. Living under Gwyn at least guarantees humans some sort of order/stability/safety. While living in the dark is unknown territory at the very least, and savagery/might makes right at worst/if Kaathe and Darkwraights MO are any indicative.

ER situation seems more nebulous, as even restoring the elden ring/golden order could result in chaotic outcomes depending on how ones mends the ring.

 

[Lithium Flower]

Don't mean to cause a rift here or call you stigmatic - I ain't no schismatic - I'm just a smegmatic fanatic in my mom's attic who'se gotta keep schizo-posting (and that's problematic)

By the way the talk about Marika destroying the ring out of butthurt that she lost a son is an instance of obvious unreliable narration. The Blacksmith has always been tasked with the job of making a weapon that can slay a god, a task given to him by.. Queen Marika. And there's many instances like these that make it seem she had wanted to destroy the golden order all along. In a way, Ranni is just continuing what Marika was preparing for. "Marika went mad for her son" is the common plebe's belief, while the truth underneath is that Marika didn't want to be a puppet of the great will anymore, just like Ranni killed her own body and slew her two fingers when you give her the fingerslayer blade. A lot of people in this world that are more in the know of what is beneath order despise it.

Both can 100% be true because while Marika did want to escape from her Godhood, Radagon didn't. As the divine hermaphrodite they be reppin' a union of opposites up in this 'hood homie G, including the contradictory will to bear their responsibility eternally and to escape it. The contradictions, presumably, were at some point resolved harmoniously but eventually things stagnated to the point where Marika/Radagon became trapped in a sadomasochistic relationship with themselves and the Higher Will. So it is entirely possible that M/R could have orchestrated Godwyn's death and simultaneously went mad due to it. In fact, it is even more likely that Godwyn's death was ordered precisely because they knew it would drive them mad so that they would shatter the ring, or plant the seeds of madness that would eventually lead to an inward schism that would then literally manifest itself as the shattering.

Also, M doesn't need to despise the Higher Will to want to bounce the fuck aboutta there. The sore/scar seal talismans state plainly that the job is pretty fucking hard - they just don't want it any more. Or rather 50% of them doesn't and the other is in it for that good shit.

On the topic of the great will and outer gods, while most of the information is vague, we know enough to know that there's almost no one on the side of the great will among the truly important people.

The Gloam Eyed Queen and its godskin faction's entire focus was making things to slay gods.
Ranni, backed by the dark moon.
Miquela and Malenia, who tried to build an artificial Erdtree that was out of the jurisdiction of the great will. (Malenia, on a side note, is affliced by the power of rot, not out of her own choice, but it's something that emanates from an unnamed sealed Outer God).
Rykard's Volcano Manor pretty much tell you as soon as you step in it that their goal is to fuck with anything the great will wants, they hunt tarnished not because they despise tarnished people per se but because the great will called them to do its bidding.
Godrick, I would call unaligned. He cares about nothing but himself and seeks a world in which he is the only man of power.
Radahn is also unaligned, but where Godrick is the dark, Radahn is the light. An idiotic brute with a heart of gold, protecting his territory from outer space invasions.
Mohg joined hands with another outer god, the Formless Mother, and seeks to turn Miquela into a puppet god.
That leaves.. Morgott. Morgott is incredibly hell bent on maintaining the status quo. I think of him as a really badly written character because I can't make sense of any possible motivation, he has a backstory of a fell omen, existences that were rejected by most of the world because of superstitions, a person like him should have been a born rebel, rather than a soldier of Order, and the game does nothing to justify him being a simp for order.

If you think about it.. when you first encounter the two fingers and the person interpreting its will, they were indeed extremely enthusiastic about the fact that they want you to kill all demi gods.
If you chose to rebuild the elden ring, no matter which order you pick for its mending, you're basically just a puppet who has never thought for themselves. The Great Will doesn't really seem to care if you curse the entire world with Dung Eater's curse, as long as it's an order under the Great Will.

I don't even feel particularly strongly about this, I think the Age of Stars is my 2nd preferred ending following Age of the Memeborn, but this analysis seems very reductive.

>Gloam Eyed Queen/Foreskins
Gloam-chan was a literal "Empyrean chosen by the Fingers ufufufu~ ^^" implying their duty was sanctioned by the Higher Will. So what if their role is to kill Gods, which almost certainly refers to regular God/Demigods as opposed to Outer Gods, if they simply served a purpose that was given to them? They're like Devil-as-prosecutor. You should read the Book of Job, it is my favorite light novel.
As a side note, if Melina is the Queen then she is certainly a reformist (possibly because, again, the reform pursues has already been sanctioned by the Higher Will) given that she has issues with the Order but only gets mad at you if you pick the path to the most destructive and subversive ending.

>Rykard
Yes, initially, however I doubt his current goal is any lofty crusade against the Erdtree. He employs Tarnished to hunt other Tarnished so that the greatest champions can be devoured by him. Remember you inherit the rune fragments of everyone you kill. I think Rykard-as-serpent is a hedonistic glutton who just wants to eat. Like Mohg whose dynasty will never arrive, Rykard doesn't even get his own ending because he likewise lost sight of his original goal and, as the ancient Gnostics would say, "cucked and fucked himself to the MAXIMUM, dawg."

>Godrick and Radahn
Calling these guys unaligned is hilarious considering Radahn loves his dad who is literal God while cucking - accidentally or deliberately? - his moon-MILF and siswah by holding up the stars, while Godrick venerates his ancestors, including Goldwyn who at a point was the paragon of the Golden Order. Just became they participated in the Shattering doesn't mean they spurn the Greater Will, if anything that meant they cared enough to compete over who would get to bust their nuts in Marika's delicious hussi. Yes, with an h. You know what I'm about.

i am not a chaser i pro

>Morgott
He loves the Order because he views himself as undeserving of love and respect but was given it by the Order anyway. Much like D-dawg, who is utterly loyal to the Order since it respects his two-body-but-one-soul-having white ass. There are many religious people in real life that basically have the same view - that we all deserve death for our iniquity, and as such the grace of love and forgiveness extended to us by the God should be met with veneration and submission. Although who knows, maybe Apostle Paul is a badly written character too - we might have to write the Vatican to find out.

>The Great Will doesn't really seem to care if you curse the entire world with Dung Eater's curse, as long as it's an order under the Great Will.

The Greater Will appears to care about as much about Dung-person's ending as any other ending - you kill its representatives in this world (its unclear just how much authority or distinction there is between M/R, Elden Beast, and the Greater Will) and do your thing. Would the Moon, for instance, give any more of a shit - when Ranni suggests it to be much more withdrawn and laissez faire than the Will?

>If you chose to rebuild the elden ring, no matter which order you pick for its mending, you're basically just a puppet who has never thought for themselves.

The issue with doubting the status quo is that it does not automatically make you right, though you will probably feel that way. Doubt your own doubt, too, or else you are not really thinking - you are just reacting.

Does becoming Elden Lord make you any more of a puppet than being Ranni's consort, whose ending cinematic makes it very clear who is wearing the pants in this particular relationship? Whose questline basically entails you to become her vassal that does nothing but her bidding the whole game, as she did the moon's bidding. You get 3 different options to reform the Elden Ring - but do you get any choices in bargaining with the Moon? Naw bitch, that's Ranni's choice, I sure am feeling that free will we're promised.

And the Frenzied Flame, that by the end makes you as mad and blind as Shabriri and Hyetta?

There is no "escape the cycle, seal out the Outer Gods, move to the West Coast and form an indie rock band" bullshit like Dark Souls 2 SOFTS' true ending. You are a tiny human, uh, fish in a cosmic pond and no matter what you do it will be in the benefit of one greater power or the next and that's fucking based - because you are forced to contend that there is no ego-flattering option, you must somehow synthesize what you want to do with the world as it is and the Powers That Be.

The Greater Will is a cosmic invader just as it is a safeguard against other such beings. It might be a symbiotic tyrant, or a parasitic messiah. It is peace, law, and order - necessitating and necessitated by hierarchy, injustice, and stagnation. It is causality and regression - determinism and meaning. It is not evil any more than its rivals are good. Only the Sith and people with BPD deal in absolutes and, to be fair, Ranni seems to have the latter ahahaha gottem

I am not a rapper.

 

[Lutte]

implying their duty was sanctioned by the Higher Will

So what? Ranni was chosen by two fingers too, and is also an Empyrean, didn't stop her from going onto the path of slaughtering them.

I don't have the energy to answer what looks like a massive fanfic. You reiterated once again that Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen, this is reddit tier vaati pull-lore-out-of-arse stuff, Melina told you her mother is in the Erdtree, the only thing inside is Queen Marika, the Gloam Eyed Queen is an older existence who waged war against Queen Marika, so.. (and the fact that she waged war against Marika should show that no, the Gloam Eyed Queen wasn't exactly a great will follower.)

Just because Melina promises to deliver you destined death if you're a frenzier fag doesn't make her the origin of destined death.

Anyhow, come up with data from the game, or else I just don't bother.

 

[Lithium Flower]

holy shit this is like that scene from the green mile where eminem and the other guy are having a rape off whoops i meant a rap off aha and em goes, "I just broke up with my girl, here's her number - PSYCHE, that's the WRONG NUMBA" and the other guy just chokes and the crowd goes wild and so em wins and walks off down an alley all moody and shit god i wish i was black just like him

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Look at this shit. I slay a giant ferocious beast using only my bare fists. I might be the most Chad Elden Ring player of all time.

 

[Xi]

So, is this worth my Rubles? (Played most of the souls games including Demon Souls on PS3)

 

[Wunderbar]

So, is this worth my Rubles? (Played most of the souls games including Demon Souls on PS3)

the game has a lot of issues, but it's still better than 99% of other big budget titles out there. And it's better than Dark Souls 3.

 

[Lutte]

And it's better than Dark Souls 3.

They're like the polar opposite of level design. DS3 has the shittiest, most boring craptastic levels in a From game, while Elden Ring has a great amount that reminds you of what From can do. When I was in the sewers, where almost every places connect to a singular site of Grace, I could have mistaken ER for being Demon's Souls.

 

[Olinser]

So, is this worth my Rubles? (Played most of the souls games including Demon Souls on PS3)

Depends on WHAT exactly you enjoyed about the Souls games.

There's a lot of stuff to enjoy about the world, exploration, and whatnot, but the bosses are REALLY low-energy cut and paste helicopters (if you actually explore side dungeons you'll probably fight 3-4 copy pastes stat buffs of most bosses by the end of the game) outside of the main story bosses, and the invasion mechanic is a laughable broken laggy mess and doesn't even have Covenants.

If you enjoy the levels, exploration and atmosphere of souls games, definitely give it a go, but if you want PvP or a lot of bosses, give it a pass until its on sale.

 

[Wunderbar]

And it's better than Dark Souls 3.

They're like the polar opposite of level design. DS3 has the shittiest, most boring craptastic levels in a From game, while Elden Ring has a great amount that reminds you of what From can do. When I was in the sewers, where almost every places connect to a singular site of Grace, I could have mistaken ER for being Demon's Souls.

the game still somewhat suffers from the overabundance of checkpoints. The amount of actually useful shortcuts can be counted on the fingers of one hand, because there's always a grace point or a marika stake nearby.

Tbh Leyndell sewers is probably the only location where shortcuts matter. Usually I don't even care when i kick a ladder, or open a door that was previously inaccessible, because it's useless.

 

[perfectslumbers]

the game still somewhat suffers from the overabundance of checkpoints. The amount of actually useful shortcuts can be counted on the fingers of one hand, because there's always a grace point or a marika stake nearby.

And the tightly designed levels are like 1/3rd to 1/10th of the experience depending on how much open world stuff you do.

 

[Lutte]

the game still somewhat suffers from the overabundance of checkpoints. The amount of actually useful shortcuts can be counted on the fingers of one hand, because there's always a grace point or a marika stake nearby.

Tbh Leyndell sewers is probably the only location where shortcuts matter. Usually I don't even care when i kick a ladder, or open a door that was previously inaccessible, because it's useless.

I always find shortcuts to be kind of useful personally, the only area where they felt retarded is Raya Academy, but yes, the sewers are the most DeS like in level design, its site of grace truly feels like an archstone moment.

the game still somewhat suffers from the overabundance of checkpoints. The amount of actually useful shortcuts can be counted on the fingers of one hand, because there's always a grace point or a marika stake nearby.

And the tightly designed levels are like 1/3rd to 1/10th of the experience depending on how much open world stuff you do.

I wish the open world didn't exist at all. Bring back level select.

 

[Puukko]

 

[Lutte]

So, another reason to kill all merchants besides having their inventories at the roundtable hold instead of having to port all over the world having forgotten who sold what.

 

[Child of Malkav]

On the topic of the great will and outer gods, while most of the information is vague, we know enough to know that there's almost no one on the side of the great will among the truly important people.

The Gloam Eyed Queen and its godskin faction's entire focus was making things to slay gods.
Ranni, backed by the dark moon.
Miquela and Malenia, who tried to build an artificial Erdtree that was out of the jurisdiction of the great will. (Malenia, on a side note, is affliced by the power of rot, not out of her own choice, but it's something that emanates from an unnamed sealed Outer God).
Rykard's Volcano Manor pretty much tell you as soon as you step in it that their goal is to fuck with anything the great will wants, they hunt tarnished not because they despise tarnished people per se but because the great will called them to do its bidding.
Godrick, I would call unaligned. He cares about nothing but himself and seeks a world in which he is the only man of power.
Radahn is also unaligned, but where Godrick is the dark, Radahn is the light. An idiotic brute with a heart of gold, protecting his territory from outer space invasions.
Mohg joined hands with another outer god, the Formless Mother, and seeks to turn Miquela into a puppet god.
That leaves.. Morgott. Morgott is incredibly hell bent on maintaining the status quo. I think of him as a really badly written character because I can't make sense of any possible motivation, he has a backstory of a fell omen, existences that were rejected by most of the world because of superstitions, a person like him should have been a born rebel, rather than a soldier of Order, and the game does nothing to justify him being a simp for order.

If you think about it.. when you first encounter the two fingers and the person interpreting its will, they were indeed extremely enthusiastic about the fact that they want you to kill all demi gods.
If you chose to rebuild the elden ring, no matter which order you pick for its mending, you're basically just a puppet who has never thought for themselves. The Great Will doesn't really seem to care if you curse the entire world with Dung Eater's curse, as long as it's an order under the Great Will.

You seem to have a good understanding of the lore.
So what is the Elden Beast? A vessel of the Greater Will or the original beast it sent that became the Elden Ring?
Also, is Ranni ending just deciding to serve another alien just not the Greater Will?
Edit: Typos. Fucking autocorrect on mobile.

 

[SumDrunkGuy]

Oh my GOD! I'm about to face off against my waifu Malenia. I don't know if I should just walk away or let her kill me. I can't fight love.

 

[Lithium Flower]

You seem to have a good understand of the lore.
So what is the Elden Beast? A vessel of the Greater Will or the original beast it sent that became the Elden Ring?
Also, is Ranni ending just deciding to serve another alien just not the Greater Will?

I tried to reach Lutte but his secretary told me that he is feeling too tired, so I will take over for him since you've put my name down as your second choice in the intake form.

Alright, so according to the description of the Fuscia Starshard states that the Elden Beast is a manifestation of the avatar of the Greater Will called Zanzibar, the Consul of Hierarchy. So it is an aspect of the Will distinct from the God and the Ring, forming a kind of trinity which makes sense considering the Abrahamic themes of the game.

Specifically, the Will as a tripartite sphere - there is a round motif manifest throughout, with the Ring, individual great runes, the beast's bulk, coins, the sun, my mother-in-law, and other things symbolic of gold and order and rotundity. This in itself a symbolic of the Golden Order being an all-encompassing force, just as Marika/Radagon as an alchemical rebis, or divine hermaphrodite, as well as Elden Beast/Zanzibar constitute a union of opposites. Thus, it is a perfect pair of perfect pairs - this bit of lore used to be quite obscure but ever since my friends on reddit started paying more attention to the aforementioned item we have finally been able to add Zanzibar as the missing peace to this abstract puzzle and fully comprehend the nature of the Greater Will.

All that is crucial because it addresses your second question also. Because the Greater Will is an all-encompassing force, we can assume the same internal union of opposites actually exists externally, among the Outer Gods. That is to say that the Greater Will actually incorporates in itself aspects of the Moon, the Frenzied Flame, and so on, but those aspects can actually grow to become separate entities yet simultaneously anchored to the Greater Will. This is seen in game by the fact that at some point Radagon marries Renalla who is obviously the moon's own vassal, signifying their greater unity, and even more explicitly conveyed by the fact that Three Fingers of the frenzied flame when added up to one of the Two Fingers add to a full hand. 3+2 = 5 is also a very important equation of totality for anyone familiar with the Qabbalah (yes, the Jews were right all along and I will be mailing you my foreskin post-haste,) which Miyazaki claims is a major inspiration in the past few years of his creative life. Add to that the description of Lord's Divine Fortification, implying the former unity of all things:

"Gideon gained true knowledge after his long exchange with the Two Fingers - discovering all had been broken long ago; that the trembling fingers, bent with age, and the Erdtree itself, were no exception."

For "all" to have been broken, naturally, "all" must have at one point being mended - into one whole thing, like the crucible of primordial life perhaps, referenced by the equipment of crucible knights. Now, this is where the spheres come back in: what else is spherical? The moon. And what does the description of the Hellbent Spear, found in the Everdark Catacombs state?

"Blackflame trident favored by Zanzibar, Consul of Hierarchy. The Greater Will is as ambitious as it is merciful and once deemed the stars in need of grace. Thusly the Consul was appointed to guide the Elden Beast from above through a blue light that never warms."

Recall the alchemical imagery embedded in the game, and its principle: as above, so below. Elden Beast fell to the world, but Zanzibar rose as Consul to the stars. Which is that cold light that never warms? Moonlight, for obvious thematic reasons, but of course recall Ranni also references its guidance as ushering on age of the chill night. This is why Renalla is said to have "found the moon" (or more accurately, perhaps it found her!) shortly before ceasing the war and marrying Radagon. The Greater Will, encompassing all things, is fractured but its individual pieces are reconstituting. And Ranni, perhaps unaware, severs her ties to one aspect of the Greater Will only to serve another.

So that's the absolute nature of the Greater Will: Radagon is Marika; Elden Beast is Zanzibar; Zanzibar is the fucking moon.

 

[Bigg Boss]

OUTER HEAVEN.

 

[Wunderbar]

THE OUTER WORLDS

 

[Lutte]

You seem to have a good understand of the lore.
So what is the Elden Beast? A vessel of the Greater Will or the original beast it sent that became the Elden Ring?
Also, is Ranni ending just deciding to serve another alien just not the Greater Will?

I mostly pay attention to the facts presented by the game itself.
For example your first question is answered by the remembrance you get by killing the elden beast :
>Remembrance of the Elden Beast, hewn into the Erdtree.
>It was the vassal beast of the Greater Will and living incarnation of the concept of Order.

Ranni's ending is not so straightforward to answer, and leaves too much to interpretation. I am going to give you mine, but unlike the Elden Beast, what I'm going to write cannot be called facts.
Ranni says this as her final dialogue, when you talk to her miniature in her tower after completing her quest :
> Mine will be an order not of gold, but the stars and moon of the chill night
> I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet
> As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at a great remove
> And have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch...
> All become impossibilities.
> Which is why I would abandon this soil, with mine order.

At the ending, she says :
> A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the moon
> Here beginneth the chill night that encompasses all, reaching the great beyond.
> Into fear, doubt, and loneliness...
> As the path stretcheth into the darkness...

I would interpret (WARNING NOT FACT NOT FACT) this as meaning the destruction of any notions of fate, of given roles and any sense of order. And yes, she is obviously following the Dark Moon outer god. People would fall into fear and doubt because they would have no reassuring figure telling them what to do.
To accomplish that means removing the influence of any other outside factor, be it the greater will or any other outer god. Hence, we don't care to rebuild the elden ring or fix the lands between.

 

[Lithium Flower]

At the ending, she says :
> A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the moon
> Here beginneth the chill night that encompasses all, reaching the great beyond.
> Into fear, doubt, and loneliness...
> As the path stretcheth into the darkness...

I'm sorry but in spite of your disclaimers, you are in fact sharing disinformation. It is widely known to fellow members of the /r/eldenring that Ranni's ending has been mistranslated due to very difficult kanji involved in the original Japanese script. There is some debate but a consensus seems to have formed that quotation the below should be be much closer to the original in meaning:

"A thousand year journey under the guidance of the moon.
Behold the cold night that envelops us and embraces the void.
Even our fear, hesitation, and bitter solitude.
As the path stretches towards Zanzibar."

So I'm glad I was here to catch you this time, but bear in mind that I am not always able to check my phone for Codex notifications - for instance I may be at work, asleep, or in the shower on the rarest of occasions - so please refrain from misinforming people considering that I may not always be present to correct you.

And honestly? Do better.

 

[agentorange]

where does Zanzibart Simpson and his faithful ally Santa's Little Helper the Forlorn Hound fit into all of this

 

[Child of Malkav]

As the path stretches towards Zanzibar

So we're going to Africa? It's the nigga ending?

 

[Lutte]

btw interesting factoid, since most people forget about it (until it's mentionned in memes), but you are maidenless. This isn't just meme material once you realize how the world works. Important figures among demi gods had their own two fingers assigned to them, and a shadow, and this was all monitoring, not good will. Tarnished are given a maiden, and like the demi god's fingers, the maiden is a representation of the Great Will's wishes. If you had a real maiden instead of Malina, you would be under the great will watch and always be told what to do.

Malina, for the most part, doesn't give a shit unless you become a little nihilist wimp and think that life is always a cause of suffering and needs to be extinguished so that suffering will be no more (frenzied flame route).