From Software Elden Ring - From Software's new game with writing by GRRM

[mediocrepoet]

Yeah, From's quest design has always been convoluted balls.

 

[NJClaw]

Same with Patches tricking you in Mt. Gelmir. The only way you can see it if you get to Mt. Gelmir before reaching the Volcano Manor, and the only way to do that is probably by way of the Abductor Virgin in the Academy, doing the Abductor Virgin duo boss fight then decide to go around exploring Mt. Gelmir before finishing up the Academy or Liurnia, which seems unlikely. I of course went to Volano Manor through the snake lady and i assume most people did as well.

You can get to Mt. Gelmir before reaching the Volcano Manor if you skip the snake lady and simply follow the path from Altus Plateau, which is exactly what I did in my first playthrough.

Just the other day i happened to learn that you are supposed to meet Alexander in Liurnia after his fight with Radahn. You are supposed to help him getting unstuck again and he gives you three exalted flesh as a reward.

The problem is that, who is going back to Liurnia after Radahn? Did they add that encounter as a "reward" for people who dared Caelid before moving to Liurnia? Apparenlty missing that isn't going to break his quest but still.

Putting Alexander there is unfathomable from a gameplay perspective. I think they were just trying to do something cute since Jar Bairn is his nephew or something and from there he can keep an eye on him before a final, unspoken farewell.

Of course, in my case i didn't get any reward for getting to the capital "early" but instead i broke the Boc quest and killed him because i was curious about the sending gate in the Deeproot Depths and got to the capital before clearing Mt. Gelmir. I mean, i doubt i would have thought about using the "you are beautiful" pate on my own anyway but still.

Melina tells you he needs to hear those words. The moment you get the pate you instantly go "wtf" -> "wait...", unless you have no respect for women.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I guess it's possible i would have figured it out if i had it. Since i didn't have it, i didn't pay attention to what Melina said.

 

[HumanTotemPole]

Reminder that 8 years ago, people had meltdowns and labeled DS2 as the weakest FromSoft game because of shit like this...




E D I T :

Spoiler

The main difference to being that: in DS2 that was the result of rushed/poor programming, which was subsequently patched out ; in ER this is the intended design, therefore never to be corrected as the devs genuinely don't see anything wrong with this

Nice illustration of how From's combat systems have gotten steadily more edgy tryhard over time. These games started out with most enemy attacks being reactable and having directional commitment. Over time more and more crutches for enemies to challenge an experienced player have been introduced and subsequently overused. Think frequent AoEs, anim speed changes, rapid punishers, camera confusers, roll catchers, increasingly generous hyperamor/dodge frames, increasingly obvious input reads, bloated HP values etc.

This type of attack is interesting as a more subtle example of the above. It maintains an illusion of reactability and commitment with the long windup but it's a trap. Boom, instant release with perfect directional correction instead. They’re grasping desperately at ever more janky contrivances stacked on janky contrivances in service of negating the player’s moveset. Pushes players towards negating enemy movesets in kind via sheer DPS, spirit ashes, offensive & defensive weapon arts etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if this arms race tanks a future Fromsoft title.

 

[The Decline]

Melania ditched me as well the bitch. But then again the last time i saw her was 2000 hours of gameplay ago. Probably went partying with Chad and left my Maindless ass dry again. Cunt.

Actually, you can probably pick her up again and it may be worth looking at a wiki to do so unless you're completely against it. I was so anal that I got through her quest legit the first time, but this time, I've been a lot more haphazard and had to look it up because she disappeared.

Unlike the tailor, she locks some good stuff behind her quest.

Occationally i read a wiki but for the most part i'm just going with the flow.

I have to ponder about some the choices they made for those quests though.

Just the other day i happened to learn that you are supposed to meet Alexander in Liurnia after his fight with Radahn. You are supposed to help him getting unstuck again and he gives you three exalted flesh as a reward.

The problem is that, who is going back to Liurnia after Radahn? Did they add that encounter as a "reward" for people who dared Caelid before moving to Liurnia? Apparenlty missing that isn't going to break his quest but still.

Same with Patches tricking you in Mt. Gelmir. The only way you can see it if you get to Mt. Gelmir before reaching the Volcano Manor, and the only way to do that is probably by way of the Abductor Virgin in the Academy, doing the Abductor Virgin duo boss fight then decide to go around exploring Mt. Gelmir before finishing up the Academy or Liurnia, which seems unlikely. I of course went to Volano Manor through the snake lady and i assume most people did as well.

Lastly, if you kill Rykard you can meet Patches outside the fog gate in The Shade Castle. Apparently there's a way to face Rykard before finishing up the Volcano Manor missions, but again, why would anybody want to do that? And if you go through all the Volcano Manor missions, it's likely you already cleared The Shaded Castle and why go back there.

And those are the various steps i ended up reading about who knows if i missed anything with other NPCs.

If the idea is to give people some interesting discoveries for going unusual routes through the game, ok, maybe, but since this is a game where you can go 50 hours before meeting the same NPC again i would have preferred to have all the encounters within reach of a normal playthrough if anything so that you get to meet the NPCs somewhat more frequently.

Of course, in my case i didn't get any reward for getting to the capital "early" but instead i broke the Boc quest and killed him because i was curious about the sending gate in the Deeproot Depths and got to the capital before clearing Mt. Gelmir. I mean, i doubt i would have thought about using the "you are beautiful" pate on my own anyway but still.

Funny enough my progression through the game led me to complete those quests. I missed snake girl entirely and got to Volcano Manor through Mount Gelmir. I also didn't do the Shaded Castle until way after I finished the Volcano Manor quests.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

This type of attack is interesting as a more subtle example of the above. It maintains an illusion of reactability and commitment with the long windup but it's a trap. Boom, instant release with perfect directional correction instead. They’re grasping desperately at ever more janky contrivances stacked on janky contrivances in service of negating the player’s moveset. Pushes players towards negating enemy movesets in kind via sheer DPS, spirit ashes, offensive & defensive weapon arts etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if this arms race tanks a future Fromsoft title.

I think it already tanked a title, ie Elden Ring. It's selling well because of From Software's reputation and quite frankly, lack of competition. With BotW2 delayed into 2023, Cyberpunk 2077 and ELEX 2 kinda flopping, nothing much to play out there in terms of large open world style games. And despite all its flaws, ER is still better than shit like Ubisoft's Ass Creed games. But google major threads about ER and so many of them are about how the combat just sucks and leaves people disappointed.

I have yet to see anyone here post videos where they defeat bosses using actual skill, myself included, where by skill I mean parrying/dodging exactly on time consistently. Everyone gets hit half the time at best, because unless you are an Olympic e-athlete, the speed and spam and unpredictability of enemy attacks in ER make that shit next to impossible. That was not the case in their previous games. So yeah, like you said, everyone tries to find a way to negate the whole moveset thing by high damage or ashes or whatever. Very sad in an aRPG.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I wouldn’t be surprised if this arms race tanks a future Fromsoft title.

Doubtful
Ever since BB this shit has become the norm as well as more "intense" with each new game
Yet barely anybody disaproves
From audience loves it
Even most posters here don't think there's anything wrong with this design - the Sekiro thread is proof of this

 

[Brickfrog]

I didn't notice a significant leap in difficulty between ER and DS3 but I'm built different

 

[HumanTotemPole]

I didn't notice a significant leap in difficulty between ER and DS3 but I'm built different

I'd say that ER is significantly easier than DS3 given how outrageous player damage output can get or how poorly enemies handle weapon art usage.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I didn't notice a significant leap in difficulty between ER and DS3 but I'm built different

I'd say that ER is significantly easier than DS3 given how outrageous player damage output can get or how poorly enemies handle weapon art usage.

As well as how bananas many weapon arts and spells are in general compared to other Soulsborne style games.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

ER is definitely a hundred times more difficult if you try to play it the interesting way: parries, dodges, etc. If you use OP high damage builds or OP weapon ashes or summons, then it's a lot easier.

I just defeated Godfrey/Whore Lou. Didn't even want to record it. Like all late game bosses, utter shit. First phase, the retard is tanky as fuck, and takes forever to take down to half health solo with my build. And he does that fucking stomp like Captain Morgan of rum fame, or a fucking dog with a busted bladder. I got tired of jumping.

Then the 2nd phase, more retardation. Constant grab attacks with few/no tells at all. I still have no idea exactly when to dodge, motherfucker just runs toward you, and you just gotta guess when to dodge.

Like all other late game bosses in this shitfest, I got bored/tired fast, and summoned Mimic Tear. Together, we beat the living fuck out of both phases. Haha, 2nd phase, motherfucker got staggered after 20 hits to the face from both sides, and then reprocessed into pulp. Do I feel good about such cheese? Not at all, but as I said before, if From Software creates this shit for bosses, I am just trying to get through it as fast as possible, to never touch it again.

 

[Wunderbar]

If you are getting tired of jumping in a videogame, then you should start running on a treadmill. Fatso.

 

[Bloodeyes]

General stat advice:

So I've been referring to your post and trying out a couple different builds in the early game. Taking Vigor to 20 first was great advice. It makes it much easier to level other things when you don't lose runes as much. I've settled on a character concept I like and if you don't mind I'd like a bit more info regarding stats.

So I'm playing a faith based caster/swordsman. I've got some very powerful, costly spells that completely assrape enemy health bars. I was thinking I may take STR to 16 for a better shield and otherwise just rely on my faith scaling enchant I put on my sword. Not level STR or DEX any more than that. The reason is I will need a lot of mind. I have 17 already and it's obviously not half enough given how costly my awesome spells are.

Will I be able to get away with just relying on faith scaling? Or will my damage lag too much. I've peeked a gear list and there's a late game weapon called the coded sword that seems to only need faith so I don't need STR or DEX at all right?

Also, can you (or anyone) explain how damage works? I don't understand why I would make a weapon quality ever when it's always got lower damage even with split stats. Also, why wouldn't I always make a weapon sacred or magic? Sure the individual numbers are lower but adding them together it's always much higher even without investment in the mental stat. I do know resistances play a role in this, but I have no idea how much. Is 2*108 damage off magic and DEX better than 1*160 damage off STR alone?

This isn't made clear in game at all and finding specific answers is hard.

 

[Wunderbar]

Will I be able to get away with just relying on faith scaling? Or will my damage lag too much. I've peeked a gear list and there's a late game weapon called the coded sword that seems to only need faith so I don't need STR or DEX at all right?

keep in mind that some of the end-game enemies are highly resistant to pure faith.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Will I be able to get away with just relying on faith scaling? Or will my damage lag too much. I've peeked a gear list and there's a late game weapon called the coded sword that seems to only need faith so I don't need STR or DEX at all right?

keep in mind that some of the end-game enemies are highly resistant to pure faith.

Some of the late game enemies are resistant to holy, but fire scales from faith too and they aren't overly resistant to fire. One in particular is quite weak to fire.

Quality is highly nerfed in Elden Ring and is generally only worth it if you have VERY high investment in both strength and dex, otherwise, you're going to want to focus either keen or heavy (or even just standard). Bear in mind that how a weapon scales with each of these things is sometimes dependant on the individual weapon, so you're best off flipping between different scalings to have a look at what it's actually doing first.

There are guides out there to damage calculations, so I won't even try to go into that beyond generalities: higher numbers are better. Split damage hits two or more defenses instead of one. Defenses are percentage based in this game, so if a weapon does say standard and holy and the enemy is highly resistant to one of those, your damage will be worse off than only having one source of damage (in the other one), but better off than if you only had one source of damage in the element the enemy is weaker to. Split damage was worse in some of the earlier games because not only were your individual numbers lower, but damage resistance wasn't percentage based, it was absolute value based and so you could end up basically doing 0 or very little on each damage stat because you diluted your values. They looked better, but were actually far worse. Does that make sense to you?

Anyway, I'm glad to hear it's working out better for you now.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Will I be able to get away with just relying on faith scaling? Or will my damage lag too much. I've peeked a gear list and there's a late game weapon called the coded sword that seems to only need faith so I don't need STR or DEX at all right?

I actually missed this and I assume this is what Wunderbar was actually talking about.

Yeah, don't do this. This might be good for pvp, but wouldn't be great for the overall game, at least not at the end. I'd recommend taking at least one of dexterity or strength to 20, and possibly both. Have a look at the stat requirements for weapons like the blasphemous blade and the Maliketh's black blade. Those are pretty great faith based swords of different types. There are other good ones too like the Miquellan knight's sword and such. Even things like just upgrading a regular long sword or claymore and slapping a fire ash on it. But I wouldn't try going for pure holy. Heavy fire scaling weapons maybe (like the magma wyrm's scalesword is fantastic on a heavy faith build).

tl;dr There are a lot of great options in the game, but don't go for pure holy damage unless you're also using a back up weapon that uses some other damage type.

 

[Lutte]

Holy weapons are hot garbage, but flame art weapons are great, and are weak only against a few, trivial enemies like the magma wyrm.
I recommend the blasphemous blade to anyone looking to be pure faith. It still does quite well without high physical stats.

I don't understand why I would make a weapon quality ever when it's always got lower damage even with split stats.

Quality is kinda shit in this game, it only seems to be worthwhile if you invest a huge amount into physical stats, like 60/60 STR/DEX. But, 60/60 with DEX/INT, DEX/FAITH, or STR/FATIH are all better combinations than STR/DEX.

. Also, why wouldn't I always make a weapon sacred or magic? Sure the individual numbers are lower but adding them together it's always much higher even without investment in the mental stat. I do know resistances play a role in this, but I have no idea how much. Is 2*108 damage off magic and DEX better than 1*160 damage off STR alone?

In my real world testing, ie no paper math, magic and fire paths are invariably better unless you meet an enemy highly resistant which isn't common.
Keen attuned uchigatana :

Magic attuned (used with the +10% magic damage boosting talisman but no other buffs)

Pure physical builds are dumb.

 

[Haplo]

Melania ditched me as well the bitch. But then again the last time i saw her was 2000 hours of gameplay ago. Probably went partying with Chad and left my Maindless ass dry again. Cunt.

Actually, you can probably pick her up again and it may be worth looking at a wiki to do so unless you're completely against it. I was so anal that I got through her quest legit the first time, but this time, I've been a lot more haphazard and had to look it up because she disappeared.

Unlike the tailor, she locks some good stuff behind her quest.

Occationally i read a wiki but for the most part i'm just going with the flow.

I have to ponder about some the choices they made for those quests though.

Just the other day i happened to learn that you are supposed to meet Alexander in Liurnia after his fight with Radahn. You are supposed to help him getting unstuck again and he gives you three exalted flesh as a reward.

The problem is that, who is going back to Liurnia after Radahn? Did they add that encounter as a "reward" for people who dared Caelid before moving to Liurnia? Apparenlty missing that isn't going to break his quest but still.

Same with Patches tricking you in Mt. Gelmir. The only way you can see it if you get to Mt. Gelmir before reaching the Volcano Manor, and the only way to do that is probably by way of the Abductor Virgin in the Academy, doing the Abductor Virgin duo boss fight then decide to go around exploring Mt. Gelmir before finishing up the Academy or Liurnia, which seems unlikely. I of course went to Volano Manor through the snake lady and i assume most people did as well.

Lastly, if you kill Rykard you can meet Patches outside the fog gate in The Shade Castle. Apparently there's a way to face Rykard before finishing up the Volcano Manor missions, but again, why would anybody want to do that? And if you go through all the Volcano Manor missions, it's likely you already cleared The Shaded Castle and why go back there.

And those are the various steps i ended up reading about who knows if i missed anything with other NPCs.

If the idea is to give people some interesting discoveries for going unusual routes through the game, ok, maybe, but since this is a game where you can go 50 hours before meeting the same NPC again i would have preferred to have all the encounters within reach of a normal playthrough if anything so that you get to meet the NPCs somewhat more frequently.

Of course, in my case i didn't get any reward for getting to the capital "early" but instead i broke the Boc quest and killed him because i was curious about the sending gate in the Deeproot Depths and got to the capital before clearing Mt. Gelmir. I mean, i doubt i would have thought about using the "you are beautiful" pate on my own anyway but still.

Done nothing of that. Why should I care about those NPCs? Or most others forthat matter.
In fact, I didn't even visit Mt. Gelmir, Volcano Manor, Shaded Castle (or Leyndel underground). The game is already pretty fucking huge as it is, without all this optional content.

Did complete Ranni's questline for the interesting swords and alternate ending. Guess it also enabled easy upgrade of Spirit Ashes to +10 while exploring the underground areas. And accessing the Manus Celes catherdal area was beneficial also.
And made Nepheli Loux Queen. Seemed easy enough, without needing to stray much off my path and the reward was nice AFAIR.

 

[Efe]

The problem is that, who is going back to Liurnia after Radahn? Did they add that encounter as a "reward" for people who dared Caelid before moving to Liurnia? Apparenlty missing that isn't going to break his quest but still.

He is in parallel with ranni's quest path. First radahn and then you would pass thru there on the way to divine tower if we didnt teleport to grace.

 

[Haplo]

Holy weapons are hot garbage, but flame art weapons are great, and are weak only against a few, trivial enemies like the magma wyrm.
I recommend the blasphemous blade to anyone looking to be pure faith. It still does quite well without high physical stats.

I don't understand why I would make a weapon quality ever when it's always got lower damage even with split stats.

Quality is kinda shit in this game, it only seems to be worthwhile if you invest a huge amount into physical stats, like 60/60 STR/DEX. But, 60/60 with DEX/INT, DEX/FAITH, or STR/FATIH are all better combinations than STR/DEX.

. Also, why wouldn't I always make a weapon sacred or magic? Sure the individual numbers are lower but adding them together it's always much higher even without investment in the mental stat. I do know resistances play a role in this, but I have no idea how much. Is 2*108 damage off magic and DEX better than 1*160 damage off STR alone?

In my real world testing, ie no paper math, magic and fire paths are invariably better unless you meet an enemy highly resistant which isn't common.
Keen attuned uchigatana :

Magic attuned (used with the +10% magic damage boosting talisman but no other buffs)

Pure physical builds are dumb.

Well, Fire & Cold scale nicely off Str. So you don't need to build a hybrid to enjoy high dual-damage.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Lutte said:
Pure physical builds are dumb.

Well, Fire & Cold scale nicely off Str. So you don't need to build a hybrid to enjoy high dual-damage.

And lightning scales well with dex. Beyond that, you can't use greases or enchants on already enchanted weapons and if you push a stat high, on a few weapons, you can get almost as much overall damage rating on a pure physical weapon as you can on a dual damage weapon. If you combine that with an enchant or grease, you'll at least be competitive, maybe even better off.

 

[Lutte]

Fire is better early game, but Flame Art (fire that scales off faith) is better mid and late game.

Cold on the other hand is NOT a form of elemental damage, it is a status effect, like bleed. Build up status, inflict frostbite. And I really don't see why someone would want this on a STR build, status application is better done with fast weapons and multihits.

 

[Lutte]

Lutte said:
Pure physical builds are dumb.

Well, Fire & Cold scale nicely off Str. So you don't need to build a hybrid to enjoy high dual-damage.

And lightning scales well with dex. Beyond that, you can't use greases or enchants on already enchanted weapons and if you push a stat high, on a few weapons, you can get almost as much overall damage rating on a pure physical weapon as you can on a dual damage weapon. If you combine that with an enchant or grease, you'll at least be competitive, maybe even better off.

If you use enchants it's even more skewed toward not being pure physical, lol.
This is scholar armament on 70 INT :

combined with golden vow and flame grant me strength. 25 faith just for a few spells, 70 int.

No, you are never reaching those damage numbers on a pure physical build with a fast attack. It just doesn't happen.

And weapon enchants are only as good as your scaling stats are. I tried Bloodflame on this build for example, and with low faith, it was crap (golden+grantmestr+bloodflame led to something like 1400 damage per hit) compared to scholar armament because I have low faith but I have high int.

A pure physical build that gets the bare minimum of faith or/and int to get weapon buffs is just going to look pathetic bruh. At this point the people who pretend the stat balance is fine are grasping at straws.

 

[Lutte]

By the way, Magic attuned Uchigatana still does better than enchanted 60 dex scholar armament katana.
Fully buffed with flame grant me strength and golden vow, this is how far we can go :

NG+4 banished knights get one shot. By the really quick L2-R2 of a katana.

 

[mediocrepoet]

At this point the people who pretend the stat balance is fine are grasping at straws.

Who's made this claim that all stats are equally viable in every situation exactly? I mean, it's not like you can't slap sacred on something and run around one shotting death birds and the like, right?
I think the game is slanted towards becoming magical and is basically a story of transcending mortality. But to suggest that pure physical builds aren't even viable is retarded.