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Yosharian

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYR1UyYJYHQ



  1. you need at least 60 poise to see any good results - most armor sets in the game don't get close to this
  2. poise kinda sucks against many tough enemies, even with 100+ poise you get nothing, and these are the enemies you really want poise to be working against
  3. rats have a basic jumping attack that isn't blocked by even 100 poise


People bitching against delayed attacks, roll catchers and endless combos are barking off the wrong tree.

What's really obnoxious is the arbitrary and inconsistent way both poise and hyberarmor works. This idea that you either lose or gain absolute immobility in the face of incoming attacks just flies in the faces of all logic. If i'm wearing granite over my whole body i should be pretty much unmovable no matter what, it doesn't matter if i'm swinging or what i'm swinging. Elden Ring is an improvement over DS3 but the idea you are just never sure if or when some of your stats are actually doing anything is just stupid.

I believe that stats were intentionally made to be inscrutable. Look at the so-called breakpoints people refer to then look at a graph of actual derived stat gains for a given base statistic. Then realize that this differs between weapons, even weapons with the same letter grade in scaling. You'll hear the claim that 50 poise is the magic number to tank a light weapon, 100 for a medium but the truth is never that simple with this game's mechanics. The truth is never consistent and there are no discernable rules, no guidelines to be found except bigger numbers are better. It's impossible to understand what your stats will do without the use of reference tables and external software.

Having played a light character who wore only a robe I can say I feel a big difference between having any amount of poise and none. Can I feel the difference between poise in the high 40s and the high 60s when I put the bull goat's talisman on? Maybe. Sometimes I think so, sometimes not.

I realize at this point that people far smarter than me have developed this character system to be intentionally impossible to optimize. Whatever. Bigger numbers are better. Poise is a number. Stat breakpoints aren't real, except for things like HP and endurance, and even then the progression has no logical pattern but a bit of hand waving is necessary to not go insane trying to just make a character. 50 poise is a good goal and definitely feels different in many circumstances to 10 poise. 100 poise is better than 50 poise and is an advantage in a fight. But you can't rely on it. Sometimes you'll stagger anyway. Who the fuck knows why? I think part of it is taking a hit previously means you have lingering poise damage, but that's just a wild guess.

This guy tested it scientifically in a video and showed that below 55 poise does nothing, but because you *feel* like it made a difference, that's all that matters!

Amazing
 

mediocrepoet

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This guy tested it scientifically in a video and showed that below 55 poise does nothing, but because you *feel* like it made a difference, that's all that matters!

Amazing

Don't you have an Excel sheet of theorycraft calling out to you somewhere? Maybe you could plug your blog page some more so people will look at your King content or something?
 

Alrik

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I actually don't think I can beat Dragonlord Placidusax. I used the flamedrake and boltdrake talismans +2. I used the opaline hardtear. I fully upgraded the fingerprint shield so it would have the best lighning damage negation possible, seeing as I can't seem to avoid his attacks. I used boiled crab, lighningproof dried liver a rune arc with Morgott's great rune. I summoned black knife tiche. I cast golden lighting fortification, flame protect me and golden vow. I got him to just below half health then got taken out in two attacks. The first time I got him to a bit below a quarter health just using my normal gear but with the damage I was doing to him vs what he was doing to me there was no way I could win. I was completely out of flasks. It was a complete fluke I even got that far.

I don't want to skip him. Is there any realistic advice on how I can do better in this fight? I'm kind of at a loss here. I spent ages prepping for the second go and got beaten so much faster than the first.

Edit: I got him. It took 6 attempts but I figured him out. I procced rotten breath then attacked his tail with 2h jump attacks and stacked damage buffs instead of that DR crap the wiki suggested. He died before he even got to try those stupid claws. Never even entered the teleporting or flying phases.

Edit 2: Maliketh's Black Blade is dope. I've taken a break from jump attacks to go sword and board for a bit. Black blade and fingerprint shield. Could this be the somber weapon that finally wins me over and sends the Guts into retirement? Probably not, but I do like it.
About half of these buffs overwrite each other. If you're going the buff route you should read up on which ones stack and which ones don't: https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Buffs+and+Debuffs

In this case Crab/Liver/Golden Lightning Fortification/Flame Protect Me are mutually exclusive as they are all "Body" buffs. You get one of them, namely the one you cast last. Golden Vow is an Aura buff so it stacks on top of Body buffs. Check the buff durations, since you die after getting him to half health it is likely your defense buff has expired. Golden Vow the incantation and Golden Vow the AoW are fundamentally different, the incantation is more powerful and lasts almost twice as long (80s vs 45s) so if you have the FAI to cast the incantation you should give it preference. A backup Golden Vow dagger is only an early game/low FAI strategy.
 

Perkel

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Ok but this is PVE we are talking about, of course poise is pretty useful in PvP
How does it change what i said ? Your poise is combined with buff you get during attack. Regardless if your are fighting mob or pvp.

If you have heavy armor and heavy mace you will get through more attacks than dude with no armor and heavy mace and even more than dude without armor with light weapon.

Moreover poise health means that while sure you can get staggered at first shot but you might not at 2nd or 3rd which leaves you opening to counter attack.
 

mediocrepoet

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Ok but this is PVE we are talking about, of course poise is pretty useful in PvP
How does it change what i said ? Your poise is combined with buff you get during attack. Regardless if your are fighting mob or pvp.

If you have heavy armor and heavy mace you will get through more attacks than dude with no armor and heavy mace and even more than dude without armor with light weapon.

If Sugar + Spice + Everything Nice = Girls,
crazyrobot.gif
+
rating_retarded.png
= Yosharian.

He's been pushing this line of thought basically since release and outright ignores anything that proves him wrong.
 

Perkel

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Poise in DS games:

Demon's Souls - Hyperarmor - you don't have poise. Your weapon decides if attack can go through.
DS1 - poise as a stat + weapon attack component. Poise is summed up with weapon buff when you attack
DS3 - poise as a stat + weapon attack component. Poise is summed up with weapon buff when you attack. Poise is switched off if you don't attack.
ER - poise as a stat + weapon attack component. Poise is summed up with weapon buff.

Rest of the stuff is just balancing. DS1 poise was just straight up broken, DS2 hit nice ground, DS3 poise was working only when you attacked which made it look like hyperarmor of DeS but it wasn't, armor still had say in that. ER goes back to DS1 poise but tunes it down a lot so you have to stack it up a lot for it to matter + good heavy weapon, no stunproof magic.
 
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Bloodeyes

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Ok but this is PVE we are talking about, of course poise is pretty useful in PvP
How does it change what i said ? Your poise is combined with buff you get during attack. Regardless if your are fighting mob or pvp.

If you have heavy armor and heavy mace you will get through more attacks than dude with no armor and heavy mace and even more than dude without armor with light weapon.

If Sugar + Spice + Everything Nice = Girls,
crazyrobot.gif
+
rating_retarded.png
= Yosharian.

He's been pushing this line of thought basically since release and outright ignores anything that proves him wrong.
Do yourself a favor and put him on ignore. I promise you you'll never have a productive or enjoyable interaction with that user.
 

Yosharian

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This is the first time I even mentioned poise in the thread, you fucking baboon. How have I been 'going on about it since release'

Also knowing mechanics = autism? You are a prize moron lmao.
 
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Yosharian

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ueSJ4vI6w

Poise added during weapon attacks is only half your passive poise so again, it's not going to be much more than the values than Youwy tested even if you are wielding a colossal weapon. Again, a fucking rat with its jump attack will bypass more than 100 poise. Haligtree knights don't give a fuck either. And there a few others.

Ultimately if you want to go for poise you need a minimum of 55 or so, otherwise don't fucking bother, and its still not *that* good even if you get there because enemies often hit you with combos or in groups so you ain't gonna ignore many of their attacks. Also as stated you actually lose poise when you attack with some colossal/great weapons

Poise is trash in PVE in my opinion, I'd much rather dodge enemy attacks completely or use a shield, or use jump attacks which is what most people do anyway. Or cast spells, lmao.

But sure damage mitigation is a reason to go for the heavier armors, personally I'd rather chug a consumable and pop Golden Vow in those situations where I need to mitigate heavy hits. Also as I said Ronin's set has amazing non-physical mitigation for very cheap equip load and that's why I think its the best armor in the game, and its physical mitigation isn't bad at all either for its EL

The second best armor in the game is the knight set which has insanely high physical mitigation for its EL, much higher than any other sets

Of course if you are level 250 or whatever then you can afford to just equip heavier stuff for no opportunity cost
 
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Bloodeyes

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Messages
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I actually don't think I can beat Dragonlord Placidusax. I used the flamedrake and boltdrake talismans +2. I used the opaline hardtear. I fully upgraded the fingerprint shield so it would have the best lighning damage negation possible, seeing as I can't seem to avoid his attacks. I used boiled crab, lighningproof dried liver a rune arc with Morgott's great rune. I summoned black knife tiche. I cast golden lighting fortification, flame protect me and golden vow. I got him to just below half health then got taken out in two attacks. The first time I got him to a bit below a quarter health just using my normal gear but with the damage I was doing to him vs what he was doing to me there was no way I could win. I was completely out of flasks. It was a complete fluke I even got that far.

I don't want to skip him. Is there any realistic advice on how I can do better in this fight? I'm kind of at a loss here. I spent ages prepping for the second go and got beaten so much faster than the first.

Edit: I got him. It took 6 attempts but I figured him out. I procced rotten breath then attacked his tail with 2h jump attacks and stacked damage buffs instead of that DR crap the wiki suggested. He died before he even got to try those stupid claws. Never even entered the teleporting or flying phases.

Edit 2: Maliketh's Black Blade is dope. I've taken a break from jump attacks to go sword and board for a bit. Black blade and fingerprint shield. Could this be the somber weapon that finally wins me over and sends the Guts into retirement? Probably not, but I do like it.
About half of these buffs overwrite each other. If you're going the buff route you should read up on which ones stack and which ones don't: https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Buffs+and+Debuffs

In this case Crab/Liver/Golden Lightning Fortification/Flame Protect Me are mutually exclusive as they are all "Body" buffs. You get one of them, namely the one you cast last.
God damn it. Thank you. I'm glad to have found out but also sick of shit like this. I use the incantation Golden Vow. I took FTH to 25 just to get it. I think I'll just stick to using that and my physick. Keeps things simple.
 

Yosharian

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Use the crab meat for an extra 20% fool. It's dirt cheap.

ELDEN RING GOLDEN VOW (SPELL) GUIDE​

  • FP Cost: 50.
  • Duration: 80 seconds (104 with Old Lord's Talisman).
  • Damage +15% (7.5% in PvP).
  • All Damage Negation +10% (5% in PvP).
  • Damage stacks multiplicatively with Flame, Grant me Strength.
  • Damage reduction component stacks multiplicatively with food buffs such as Boiled Crab.
  • This is an Aura Buffand will not stack with other buffs of the same type.
Golden Vow is an aura buff and boiled crab is a body buff. They stack.
 

Perkel

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Messages
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Poise added during weapon attacks is only half your passive poise so
Yes poise is summed up with weapon buff, thanks for confirming 3rd time what i said.

No 55 is for standing still and receiving attacks, not when you attack. Which is why i criticized video because dude doesn't test poise during attack. He just "60 is about the poise you need to get attacks not to stagger you when you stand still" and says then poise is shit.
 

Yosharian

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It is still shit because it's only half your passive poise that gets added. Youwy's tests are still valid because the amount of poise you get during attacks is still roughly the same (or less, sometimes) than your passive poise.

In your fucking word salad you managed to write "So with heavy armor and heavy weapon you get ton of real poise to get through those attacks." which is fucking wrong.

If you want to use uninterruptible heavy attacks against enemies you should take an Ash of War that can never be interrupted, not rely on fucking armor poise
 

cruel

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Messages
550
I've finally reached Malenia. I knew what to expect, based on everyone complaining about her, but I still need to write this: WTF. Her speed is one thing, heal on each hit is another, but healing on a 100% blocked by shield attack? Seriously? What's the logic of that? This is basically a big 'F#@% you' to all the large weapon + shield users. And here I was, happy with my 76 stability Golden Greatshield and even being able to wield Fingerprint Shield and keep medium roll. The few tries I had with her so far were so bad, it actually makes me wonder if she is doable with a slow weapon at all. I played the whole game with zero summons (NPC/ players / ashes included) and had zero issues so far - I would prefer to keep it this way; but on the other hand, I'm not that motivated to spend 3h+ memorizing her attack patterns to be honest. While true Mohg was demanding, but fair, she is crossing the line of motivation vs tedium for me.
What's the good setup to fight her on fair terms (if it's even possible, lol)? I'm level 161, 88 STR / 50 VGR / 55 END, heavy armor with around 50% physical resist and Large Club +25. Talismans: great jar, green turtle, favor +1, greatshield. Very few bosses were a problem so far, I would consider the game pretty easy actually. Power stance double greatswords? Smaller swords? Rapier for poking? Respec to dex build only for this single fight? I would prefer not to cheese her, if possible, but my patience is limited :)
 

Yosharian

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I've finally reached Malenia. I knew what to expect, based on everyone complaining about her, but I still need to write this: WTF. Her speed is one thing, heal on each hit is another, but healing on a 100% blocked by shield attack? Seriously? What's the logic of that? This is basically a big 'F#@% you' to all the large weapon + shield users. And here I was, happy with my 76 stability Golden Greatshield and even being able to wield Fingerprint Shield and keep medium roll. The few tries I had with her so far were so bad, it actually makes me wonder if she is doable with a slow weapon at all. I played the whole game with zero summons (NPC/ players / ashes included) and had zero issues so far - I would prefer to keep it this way; but on the other hand, I'm not that motivated to spend 3h+ memorizing her attack patterns to be honest. While true Mohg was demanding, but fair, she is crossing the line of motivation vs tedium for me.
What's the good setup to fight her on fair terms (if it's even possible, lol)? I'm level 161, 88 STR / 50 VGR / 55 END, heavy armor with around 50% physical resist and Large Club +25. Talismans: great jar, green turtle, favor +1, greatshield. Very few bosses were a problem so far, I would consider the game pretty easy actually. Power stance double greatswords? Smaller swords? Rapier for poking? Respec to dex build only for this single fight? I would prefer not to cheese her, if possible, but my patience is limited :)
Yeah using a shield on her is just ugh. It's still a viable strategy in some senses though, it just depends on what you are doing when you aren't blocking.

What I did to get past this fight was go into it with two human allies, two of us had the Fallingstar Beast Jaw and were wrecking her at range with it (I never used it but apparently the tear that increases enemy stagger is really good with this weapon), while the other guy kept her distracted in melee - he was really good and dodged her shit like a pro. She still broke aggro a few times and attacked me, but I had a very good greatshield so I just blocked it and eventually she left me alone.

After hours upon hours of bashing my head against his fight I felt no guilt or shame at doing this really, the mechanics of this fight are just really obnoxious. I don't particularly care to spend weeks learning a boss fight, too old for that shit haha.

That said, I have seen many people defeat her using relatively simple strategies that mostly involve stunlocking her, so that she never gets to do her obnoxious shit. One fight I saw she never even got to use Waterfowl in the entire fight.

This is post blood-nerf, of course there are tons of videos cheesing her with Swarm of Flies etc before that got nerfed. But if you want to beat her 'fairly', there are a couple of ways to do it, just browse on YouTube. One good strategy I believe is to use a summon like Omenkiller Rollo or Dung Eater to help stunlock her. Tiche just doesn't seem to do much in this fight - she helps massively of course, but nowhere near on the same level as Rollo.

I assume you know about Boiled Crab & Golden Vow and are using those to help mitigate her damage.

Here's a video using Dung Eater:



Wild Strikes stronk. Actually she did get off a Waterfowl in phase 1
 
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Yosharian

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This might also be of use, some good ideas here:

 

Alrik

Educated
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Use the crab meat for an extra 20% fool. It's dirt cheap.

ELDEN RING GOLDEN VOW (SPELL) GUIDE​

  • FP Cost: 50.
  • Duration: 80 seconds (104 with Old Lord's Talisman).
  • Damage +15% (7.5% in PvP).
  • All Damage Negation +10% (5% in PvP).
  • Damage stacks multiplicatively with Flame, Grant me Strength.
  • Damage reduction component stacks multiplicatively with food buffs such as Boiled Crab.
  • This is an Aura Buffand will not stack with other buffs of the same type.
Golden Vow is an aura buff and boiled crab is a body buff. They stack.
If you're already going to 25 FAI for GV I'd recommend going to 30 for Black Flame's Protection (+35% physical resist but 20% less effective healing, Crab is +20% also only physical). Heavy armor + Dragoncrest Greatshield + GV + BFP will push your physical resistance to ~70%.
 

Yosharian

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Black Flame Protection is alright I guess, sure. It is quite lategame but since we are discussing Malenia its valid. As long as you don't run out of flasks its good.
 
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mediocrepoet

In USian: medokerpote
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This is the first time I even mentioned poise in the thread, you fucking baboon. How have I been 'going on about it since release'

Also knowing mechanics = autism? You are a prize moron lmao.
I must have you confused with someone else who already had the poise thing shot down. But I see you cared enough to temporarily unignore me.

Anyway you don't know mechanics. You're making a stupid assertion that's actually wrong. This tends to be par for course for you though.
 

mediocrepoet

In USian: medokerpote
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What I did to get past this fight was go into it with two human allies

Hang on, you're being an asshole to pretty much everyone and citing your deep knowledge of game mechanics and condescending to tell everyone what they should be doing... but you had to get two people to carry you through Melania? Bitch, gtfo of here and go masturbate over Excel some more.
 

Yosharian

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Accuses others of making stupid assumptions

Goes on to make assumptions themselves and provides zero evidence

Makes sense

Go fuck yourself you little cunt.
 

mediocrepoet

In USian: medokerpote
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Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Accuses others of making stupid assumptions

Goes on to make assumptions themselves and provides zero evidence

Makes sense

Go fuck yourself you little cunt.
I have previously, you completely useless bitch. Besides, it's not only or even primarily me that you're ignoring while adding nothing other than fellating a Youtuber.

 

Yosharian

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:lol:
 

mediocrepoet

In USian: medokerpote
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Codex 2012 MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Yosharian there's also stuff like this, you twatwaffle. My little thing was just to point out that the same things were generally true for retards like yourself who asserted that poise makes no difference in pve as opposed to pvp.

 

Child of Malkav

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I've finally reached Malenia. I knew what to expect, based on everyone complaining about her, but I still need to write this: WTF. Her speed is one thing, heal on each hit is another, but healing on a 100% blocked by shield attack? Seriously? What's the logic of that? This is basically a big 'F#@% you' to all the large weapon + shield users. And here I was, happy with my 76 stability Golden Greatshield and even being able to wield Fingerprint Shield and keep medium roll. The few tries I had with her so far were so bad, it actually makes me wonder if she is doable with a slow weapon at all. I played the whole game with zero summons (NPC/ players / ashes included) and had zero issues so far - I would prefer to keep it this way; but on the other hand, I'm not that motivated to spend 3h+ memorizing her attack patterns to be honest. While true Mohg was demanding, but fair, she is crossing the line of motivation vs tedium for me.
What's the good setup to fight her on fair terms (if it's even possible, lol)? I'm level 161, 88 STR / 50 VGR / 55 END, heavy armor with around 50% physical resist and Large Club +25. Talismans: great jar, green turtle, favor +1, greatshield. Very few bosses were a problem so far, I would consider the game pretty easy actually. Power stance double greatswords? Smaller swords? Rapier for poking? Respec to dex build only for this single fight? I would prefer not to cheese her, if possible, but my patience is limited :)
Why would you fight her fair? Hoarfrost her ass or SoNaF her. Use night spells against her. Use mimic tear. Use bleed or any other OP weapon art. You do know this is Memehackzacky telling you "Fuck you", right? So fuck him right back.
 

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